.: The Official Ninja Gaiden II Thread (Reviews are coming in!) :. (56k warning)

So, does Ninja Gaiden 2 take the crown for "bloodiest game ever?"

Maybe bloodiest, but how about goriest?

[QUOTE="Dutch_Mix"]

Finished Ninja Gaiden 2 this afternoon. Wow. My opinion of the game turned a complete 180 degrees over the last few chapters. I don't know what happened, but I feel like never playing this game ever again. Mentally, I feel pretty exhausted so I won't be writing any final impressions... expect a review sometime later this week.

6/10... (at best)

Shame-usBlackley

It's so funny how polarizing this game is. I was in love with the game through chapter 5, almost got jacked by a bad save point, slowly started to hate going in to chapter 8 (which everyone said I would hate), actually ended up liking chapter 8, but fell right back into seething hatred in chapter 10 (or was it 9? the one with the lame rocket spammers in the jungle?), and then fell stark raving in love with it again for the final 3 chapters. It ended with one of the best boss fights in recent memory.

I wanted to ding this game more because of how awful the camera is at times, but I can't picture giving it any less than an 8.5 now. All the crappy camera angles and poor design choices in the world can't kill what is arguably the greatest fighting engine ever put in an action game.

Absolutely. The combat in this game is unparalleled.

What killed the game for me (besides the camera and horrendous frame-rate) was just the overall cheapness of the enemies and boss battles. I don't mind getting killed when it's my own fault, but some of the enemy attacks in the game were just ridiculous.

Bottomline: I expected better of Team Ninja. Seriously, Ninja Gaiden 1 came out four years ago, and this is the best they can offer as far as a sequel is concerned? Label me disappointed.

Absolutely. The combat in this game is unparalleled.

What killed the game for me (besides the camera and horrendous frame-rate) was just the overall cheapness of the enemies and boss battles. I don't mind getting killed when it's my own fault, but some of the enemy attacks in the game were just ridiculous.

Bottomline: I expected better of Team Ninja. Seriously, Ninja Gaiden 1 came out four years ago, and this is the best they can offer as far as a sequel is concerned? Label me disappointed.

Dutch_Mix

Wait'll you play Mentor. It's just ridiculously cheap. Here's an example:

At the very beginning, when you first learn to wall run, there's a section of wall you have to run along to cross a gap. As soon as you get close, four rocket spammers show up on the other side, like stormtroopers in the Star Wars bridge swing scene. Except these stormtroopers have rockets and can aim. And, they've upped the fire rate so there's no longer a delay between firing. It's less a rocket launcher and more a machine gun that fires rockets. It's just ridiculous.

So you do what any good ninja would do and you go into a swallow off of the wall run. You pop the first guy's head off and then........ you get hit with fifty rockets. In the face. You can't even hardly move because all the rockets are staggered in the firing so instead of it being a rocket firing machine gun, it's now phalanx shooting rockets. The only way to make it past that part with any consistency is to haul ass away from them into the next room (which is populated by a good half dozen gun toting ninjas who love to throw you) and grab the fire ninpo from the box and take out the rocket guys with that.

Wait'll you play Mentor. It's just ridiculously cheap. Here's an example:

At the very beginning, when you first learn to wall run, there's a section of wall you have to run along to cross a gap. As soon as you get close, four rocket spammers show up on the other side, like stormtroopers in the Star Wars bridge swing scene. Except these stormtroopers have rockets and can aim. And, they've upped the fire rate so there's no longer a delay between firing. It's less a rocket launcher and more a machine gun that fires rockets. It's just ridiculous.

So you do what any good ninja would do and you go into a swallow off of the wall run. You pop the first guy's head off and then........ you get hit with fifty rockets. In the face. You can't even hardly move because all the rockets are staggered in the firing so instead of it being a rocket firing machine gun, it's now phalanx shooting rockets. The only way to make it past that part with any consistency is to haul ass away from them into the next room (which is populated by a good half dozen gun toting ninjas who love to throw you) and grab the fire ninpo from the box and take out the rocket guys with that.

Shame-usBlackley

I don't know, this sounds a lot like the complaints people had about the first Ninja Gaiden in the beginning. I can honestly say I didn't have any problems beating those parts without resorting to "cheap" tactics myself. I used the environment to hide from the rocket launchers and had no problem slicing up the machinegun ninjas even with the lvl 1 dragon sword without taking a single bullet or hit. Pretty much all your combos stagger them so it's only a matter of grouping them together and unleashing some major pain. This can easily be done by jumping down to the lower level and waiting for all the machinegun ninjas to follow you down. After that you just have to clean the remains up with some obliterations. The rocket launchers were easy IMO when I learned to dodge out from their path while in close proximity; they turn very slowly and won't be able to follow your movement speed (you can completely block their rockets as well, it results in a guard break though).

Just as on Warrior level 2 is where the difficulty really ramps up. Compared to some of the things you face in it the whole first chapter is just a tutorial or at most training level TBH :P.

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"][QUOTE="Dutch_Mix"]

Finished Ninja Gaiden 2 this afternoon. Wow. My opinion of the game turned a complete 180 degrees over the last few chapters. I don't know what happened, but I feel like never playing this game ever again. Mentally, I feel pretty exhausted so I won't be writing any final impressions... expect a review sometime later this week.

6/10... (at best)

Dutch_Mix

It's so funny how polarizing this game is. I was in love with the game through chapter 5, almost got jacked by a bad save point, slowly started to hate going in to chapter 8 (which everyone said I would hate), actually ended up liking chapter 8, but fell right back into seething hatred in chapter 10 (or was it 9? the one with the lame rocket spammers in the jungle?), and then fell stark raving in love with it again for the final 3 chapters. It ended with one of the best boss fights in recent memory.

I wanted to ding this game more because of how awful the camera is at times, but I can't picture giving it any less than an 8.5 now. All the crappy camera angles and poor design choices in the world can't kill what is arguably the greatest fighting engine ever put in an action game.

Absolutely. The combat in this game is unparalleled.

What killed the game for me (besides the camera and horrendous frame-rate) was just the overall cheapness of the enemies and boss battles. I don't mind getting killed when it's my own fault, but some of the enemy attacks in the game were just ridiculous.

Bottomline: I expected better of Team Ninja. Seriously, Ninja Gaiden 1 came out four years ago, and this is the best they can offer as far as a sequel is concerned? Label me disappointed.

Same here, what makes the camera a big deal is that you're playing a challenging and sometimes cheapness enemies if it was a regular type of difficulty game, then those parts weren't be a big deal. The framerates were good most of the time and it didn't really bother me that much (though I stopped at the end of ch.9). I've could go on and defeat that boss, but I didn't find "skill" being a big part of that fight as the camera was atrocious, leaving you blindsided of where you were being attacked from. Heck I couldn't even find the dead guy to replenish my arrows, which that entire fight relied on just to give you an idea. I just stopped and was letdown that I decided to stop playing. How can I play something that I wasn't having fun? Some bosses had cheap attacks as well, but I continue to play and didn't bothered me much but things kept accumulating that I got fed up with the game.

As someone who beat the original on Very Hard, I didn't find that game as cheap as this sequel and with some many camera problems and enemies that relied on the cheapness factor that I didn't feel like I was playing a NG game at times. The difficulty didn't turn me off, just the way the camera leaves a player in an bad situation. As a big NG fan like you, I'm VERY dissapointed aswell and it sounds like Path of the Menthor doesn't rely most of the time on skill and "luck"; very sad indeed.

[QUOTE="Dutch_Mix"][QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"][QUOTE="Dutch_Mix"]

6/10... (at best)

D3s7rUc71oN

It's so funny how polarizing this game is. I was in love with the game through chapter 5, almost got jacked by a bad save point, slowly started to hate going in to chapter 8 (which everyone said I would hate), actually ended up liking chapter 8, but fell right back into seething hatred in chapter 10 (or was it 9? the one with the lame rocket spammers in the jungle?), and then fell stark raving in love with it again for the final 3 chapters. It ended with one of the best boss fights in recent memory.

I wanted to ding this game more because of how awful the camera is at times, but I can't picture giving it any less than an 8.5 now. All the crappy camera angles and poor design choices in the world can't kill what is arguably the greatest fighting engine ever put in an action game.

Bottomline: I expected better of Team Ninja. Seriously, Ninja Gaiden 1 came out four years ago, and this is the best they can offer as far as a sequel is concerned? Label me disappointed.

Same here, what makes the camera a big deal is that you're playing a challenging and sometimes cheapness enemies if it was a regular type of difficulty game, then those parts weren't be a big deal. The framerates were good most of the time and it didn't really bother me that much (though I stopped at the end of ch.9). I've could go on and defeat that boss, but I didn't find "skill" being a big part of that fight as the camera was atrocious, leaving you blindsided of where you were being attacked from. Heck I couldn't even find the dead guy to replenish my arrows, which that entire fight relied on just to give you an idea. I just stopped and was letdown that I decided to stop playing. How can I play something that I wasn't having fun? Some bosses had cheap attacks as well, but I continue to play and didn't bothered me much but things kept accumulating that I got fed up with the game.

As someone who beat the original on Very Hard, I didn't find that game as cheap as this sequel and with some many camera problems and enemies that relied on the cheapness factor that I didn't feel like I was playing a NG game at times. The difficulty didn't turn me off, just the way the camera leaves a player in an bad situation. As a big NG fan like you, I'm VERY dissapointed aswell and it sounds like Path of the Menthor doesn't rely most of the time on skill and "luck"; very sad indeed.

I actually thought about quitting mid-way through chapter 12. I won't spoil anything, but if you thought the final boss of chapter 7 was bad, heh, you ain't seen nothing yet.

*sigh* It's like Team Ninja decided to bring back everything we hated about Ninja Gaiden 1, and then they cranked it all the way up to 11. The ghost fish, camera, swimming in the dark, recycled boss battles, etc.

[QUOTE="Dutch_Mix"]

Finished Ninja Gaiden 2 this afternoon. Wow. My opinion of the game turned a complete 180 degrees over the last few chapters. I don't know what happened, but I feel like never playing this game ever again. Mentally, I feel pretty exhausted so I won't be writing any final impressions... expect a review sometime later this week.

6/10... (at best)

dvader654

A 6, really. Just on NG's combat system alone it warrants a higher score. But clearly you were disappointed.

Yeah, I don't know what to tell you, man. I guess whenever you get a 360, give it a rent first and see if you like it. For me, though, the game was not worth $60.

Just an update:

I've kind of lost interest in playing NG2. I got to and beat the level 6 boss, but haven't picked it up since. A combination of the huge jump in difficulty and cheapness, as well as an overwhelming realization (according to many posters here) that the cheapness would increase tenfold in the next few levels has put me off. I barely had the patience for level 6, and I don't know if I can weather the storm of playing 3 extremely cheap levels.

Maybe I'll pick it up again somewhere down the line.

I really never found the game cheap at all, at least on Warrior difficulty. The ghost fish have been really toned down from the first game and some bosses took me at most five tries to beat. The camera can be bothersome but really only at certain times. Throughout most of the game though it is ok. There are some odd little minor things such as a tremendous drop in framerate at one specific point in the game usually though it does ok during the rest of the game. There are some points in the game where it will pause for a second to load but it wasn't terribly frequent. Also blood splatters can appear a bit wonky at times because the invisible walls don't quite lay flat on the background surface.

After taking some time to think over all this and let the game I just finished soak in I would give this game a 9 out of 10. It's just a really exhilarating and rewarding game to experience. Fantastic gameplay, excellent music, a large variety of locations to fight in that for the most part all look great, very cool enemy and boss designs. And while you do fight some bosses again the overall selection is still quite good.

If Warrior difficulty is too frustrating then I would highly suggest going on Acolyte because I do find it a good deal easier then Warrior but still incredibly enjoyable. Either way I think people should at least give this game a try because I found it to be one heck of an experience.

I agree with what Archangel said. I'm sorry to read that so many of you are disappointed in the game. It's definitely an uphill battle the whole way through, that's for sure, and I really do feel like it's significantly harder than the original NG. Still, like NG, there were plenty of moments that I wanted to cry "cheap" in frustration, sections in the game that induced a puppy-kicking rage. This game doesn't rely on luck, it requires good reflexes, good grasp of the combat system, and (of course) a calm mind.

Persistence pays off, and this game really lets you feel like you, the player, are improving the more you play. The game has its frustrating moments, sure, but it also feels very rewarding to get through those challenges that seem impossible at first. I say don't give up just yet. You're missing out on some of the greatest action that has been presented in a video game. At least, I think so.

Overall, I enjoyed it. 60 bones well spent.

However, the cheapness does nearly ruin the game. The problem I have with it, is that it forces me to play just as cheap. 70% of the time, I ended up just mashing jump+Y throughout the entire second half of the game. If I attempted any combo, ultimate attack, or anything *FUN* I'll get blown to pieces by missles, incendiary knives, fireballs, flaming arrows, ect. Even the fricken DOGS had explosives!

Whats more, the game is almost too easy when the enemies aren't spamming projectiles at you. Once your weapons start hitting lvl 3, you're almost able to effortlessly tear anything to pieces (even bosses). I'm sure Team Ninja realized that it was too easy without the projectile spam, which is why it gets so heavy in the later half, and why it shows up immediately when you play on mentor.

I agree with what Archangel said. I'm sorry to read that so many of you are disappointed in the game. It's definitely an uphill battle the whole way through, that's for sure, and I really do feel like it's significantly harder than the original NG. Still, like NG, there were plenty of moments that I wanted to cry "cheap" in frustration, sections in the game that induced a puppy-kicking rage. This game doesn't rely on luck, it requires good reflexes, good grasp of the combat system, and (of course) a calm mind.

Persistence pays off, and this game really lets you feel like you, the player, are improving the more you play. The game has its frustrating moments, sure, but it also feels very rewarding to get through those challenges that seem impossible at first. I say don't give up just yet. You're missing out on some of the greatest action that has been presented in a video game. At least, I think so.

_Dez_

Agreed on all points. The game never lets you feel "superior" to your enemies for a long time, it just keeps throwing new stuff at you and if you don't "read" the game you'll only end up frustrated. I know those of you who didn't like Warrior would absolutely HATE Mentor because it's like the "worst" parts of Warrior, just like that all the time. I simply stick at it and now I'm owning everything it throws at me in chapter 3 after having died about 30 times or so in the second chapter. Still, I've no doubt I will start dying again soon. And then I'll just have to adapt again.

The midboss in chapter 2 for example is just completely impossible at first sight. 8 or so exploding shuriken ninjas and the big spider boss. He's different from Warrior by having much more aggressive and faster AI (you DON'T want to get into close quarters with him) but he still has very little health. You die in under 10 seconds EVERY time if you don't block immediately the fight starts. I died 20 or so times against him, always inflicting some damage but then falling victim to one of his grabs (which take off 50% of your health or so) and the exploding shurikens. However then I started concentrating a bit more on the ninjas surrounding him, dodging and avoiding the boss at all times and taking the ninjas out when I got a chance. I found out you can izuna drop enemies into the boss's head and take 1/4 of his health or so away by doing so. It's not easy, you have to choose your izuna drop victim well as you'll get hit by shurikens mid-air if he's too close to other ninjas, but by using this method and pulling of an UT with the essence the dead enemies dropped I managed to kill the boss using only 2 small healing items.

TBH I got my ass kicked much more and thought the first Ninja Gaiden was much cheaper the first time I played it. Awakened Alma, the red dragon fiends with their unblockable grabs they used ALL the time (and their fire breathing attack which was much harder to avoid than the one the green, purple and golden fiends have), the fire dragon, the worms... It was worse at the time IMO. I probably wouldn't find it as frustrating if I played through it again now (definitely not on normal at least) but I refuse to call NG2 much more frustrating. It's harder and that's about it IMO.

Overall, I enjoyed it. 60 bones well spent.

However, the cheapness does nearly ruin the game. The problem I have with it, is that it forces me to play just as cheap. 70% of the time, I ended up just mashing jump+Y throughout the entire second half of the game. If I attempted any combo, ultimate attack, or anything *FUN* I'll get blown to pieces by missles, incendiary knives, fireballs, flaming arrows, ect. Even the fricken DOGS had explosives!

Whats more, the game is almost too easy when the enemies aren't spamming projectiles at you. Once your weapons start hitting lvl 3, you're almost able to effortlessly tear anything to pieces (even bosses). I'm sure Team Ninja realized that it was too easy without the projectile spam, which is why it gets so heavy in the later half, and why it shows up immediately when you play on mentor.

H3LLRaiseR

Flying swallow stops working immediately in Mentor. Or at least most of it's effectivity is taken away as all the enemies start blocking it (don't even think about using it on the bosses). I find the best way to deal with the missiles is to use the surroundings. Playing on mentor has given me even more appreciation for the way the levels are designed. My most used combos right now are YYY and XXYY with the Dragon Sword and I don't have any problems pulling them off.

The camera is pretty much fine in the first chapter. Later on, in narrow passages and some boss fights? Oh my, not quite so fine.argianas

Indeed, it feels like they designed the levels completely ignoring the camera's behaviour. And it's too damn low, all the time. You do get used to it, but wth.

I could be wrong, but I don't remember this feeling of utter frustration and disgust when I played Ninja Gaiden Part I.

The beginning of level 7 is extremely annoying. Respawning machine-gun turrets that trap you in to a helpless animation when they hit you, thus increasing their number of hits. Enemies that blow up RIGHT after you kill them, causing almost certain harm. Is this Itagaki's idea of challenge? I feel nothing but disgust towards this game right now.

I could be wrong, but I don't remember this feeling of utter frustration and disgust when I played Ninja Gaiden Part I.

The beginning of level 7 is extremely annoying. Respawning machine-gun turrets that trap you in to a helpless animation when they hit you, thus increasing their number of hits. Enemies that blow up RIGHT after you kill them, causing almost certain harm. Is this Itagaki's idea of challenge? I feel nothing but disgust towards this game right now.

Jbul

Sorry to hear that you're not having fun with the game. Honestly, I really enjoyed the 7th stage. I simply screwed myself at the end by using all of my items up and having no essence left for level 8. A word of advice, make sure you have plenty of essence at the end of the level. If you can, focus on leveling up the Scythe. It's probably the most useful weapon against bosses. A few slashes from it really takes a chunk of their health away!

I don't think the turrets are so bad. Try to position yourself behind cover so you can attack them one at a time. You might take some damage, but you'll clear them out faster. As for the exploding mechs, an obliteration technique will give you enough time to dash away. They always have a falling animation right before they explode. Just remember that it applies to all robotic enemies, because I tend to forget that from time to time. I'm not sure if blocking helps, but just remember to block after defeating the second boss in that stage. It's the one that all the reviewers were mentioning about the cheap death afterwards.

Anyway, perhaps you knew this, but hopefully this helps a little.

[QUOTE="Jbul"]

I could be wrong, but I don't remember this feeling of utter frustration and disgust when I played Ninja Gaiden Part I.

The beginning of level 7 is extremely annoying. Respawning machine-gun turrets that trap you in to a helpless animation when they hit you, thus increasing their number of hits. Enemies that blow up RIGHT after you kill them, causing almost certain harm. Is this Itagaki's idea of challenge? I feel nothing but disgust towards this game right now.

_Dez_

Sorry to hear that you're not having fun with the game. Honestly, I really enjoyed the 7th stage. I simply screwed myself at the end by using all of my items up and having no essence left for level 8. A word of advice, make sure you have plenty of essence at the end of the level. If you can, focus on leveling up the Scythe. It's probably the most useful weapon against bosses. A few slashes from it really takes a chunk of their health away!

I don't think the turrets are so bad. Try to position yourself behind cover so you can attack them one at a time. You might take some damage, but you'll clear them out faster. As for the exploding mechs, an obliteration technique will give you enough time to dash away. They always have a falling animation right before they explode. Just remember that it applies to all robotic enemies, because I tend to forget that from time to time. I'm not sure if blocking helps, but just remember to block after defeating the second boss in that stage. It's the one that all the reviewers were mentioning about the cheap death afterwards.

Anyway, perhaps you knew this, but hopefully this helps a little.

You can actually block the explosion from the mechs completely. IMO the boss explosion isn't even that bad as the mechs teach you throughout the level the only thing you have to do to block the explosion is exactly that, block.

[QUOTE="_Dez_"][QUOTE="Jbul"]

I could be wrong, but I don't remember this feeling of utter frustration and disgust when I played Ninja Gaiden Part I.

The beginning of level 7 is extremely annoying. Respawning machine-gun turrets that trap you in to a helpless animation when they hit you, thus increasing their number of hits. Enemies that blow up RIGHT after you kill them, causing almost certain harm. Is this Itagaki's idea of challenge? I feel nothing but disgust towards this game right now.

inoperativeRS

Sorry to hear that you're not having fun with the game. Honestly, I really enjoyed the 7th stage. I simply screwed myself at the end by using all of my items up and having no essence left for level 8. A word of advice, make sure you have plenty of essence at the end of the level. If you can, focus on leveling up the Scythe. It's probably the most useful weapon against bosses. A few slashes from it really takes a chunk of their health away!

I don't think the turrets are so bad. Try to position yourself behind cover so you can attack them one at a time. You might take some damage, but you'll clear them out faster. As for the exploding mechs, an obliteration technique will give you enough time to dash away. They always have a falling animation right before they explode. Just remember that it applies to all robotic enemies, because I tend to forget that from time to time. I'm not sure if blocking helps, but just remember to block after defeating the second boss in that stage. It's the one that all the reviewers were mentioning about the cheap death afterwards.

Anyway, perhaps you knew this, but hopefully this helps a little.

You can actually block the explosion from the mechs completely. IMO the boss explosion isn't even that bad as the mechs teach you throughout the level the only thing you have to do to block the explosion is exactly that, block.

I think the complaint reviewers have had is that it looks like the boss is dead, and after you settle in, perhaps setting down the controller, he explodes and kills you. Sure you can say it's easy to block, but for someone coming into the game with no knowledge of it, you will likely die. And yes, that is cheap.

As for your comments about the mechs, yes, you can block if you are NOT in the middle of an attack animation. But say the mech dies two hits into a 4-5 hit combo.... you will get hit by the explosion.

I'm sure this game has plenty to offer later on when some of the cheapness let's up. Whether I have the time and patience to get to that point, we will see.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a game trying to be completely hardcore, bordering on unfair. There's room for games like that, just look at the Ghosts and Goblins series.nopalversion

Quite a few tough games over the years have been cheap (especially in the old days), and cheap didn't bother me much in the distant past, but nowadays cheapness really irritates me.

I don't mind a game beating me like a rented mule, but being killed because of design decisions (a bad camera, enemies who can 'juggle' me to death with a series of missiles or what have you) or stuff which was unforseeable (unlike the other bosses, this boss's death can kill me) as opposed to my own actions really bothers me.

NG2 and DMC4 were two of the games I was most looking forward to this year, but due to DMC4's recycling and lack of difficulty (speaking of the initially selectable levels) and NG2's cheapness, I wound up skipping them both :( .

I hope the upcoming GoW PS3 (coming soon, according to a page in GoW PSP's manual) actually lives up to its predecessors.

I haven't finished the game yet, but I already feel like this is the one of the cheapest games I've ever played, or at least in the past decade, and I've played much of the old school hardcore stuff. At some points I laughed out loud at how cheap it is. In this stage of gaming's development, to put out a game that has the problems this one does -- especially a game that's a sequel to something as great as NG1 -- is baffling to me. Now I will be the very first to admit that I'm awful at this game and that I've died a lot on account of that. But I also feel like a good portion of my deaths came from something that was out of my hands. I don't have a problem at all with games that are uber-hardcore, but as the above poster said, it goes over the line when you feel like there's nothing you can do to counter it. The game's got some real good stuff in it, but unfortunately that's not what I'm going to remember about it when I'm done.