This. I don't care if anyone thinks it's childish.Heck yeah, I'll play any game that is fun.
Oniresurrect
Those over 25 do you still play childish games?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
First things first. Stop lying about what you've said in past posts. Just one page back you said:
And given that we're NOT talking about the ESRB ratings, and that no one has really made any attempt to DEFINE what makes a game "childish", then it's absolutely fair game to say that crap like God of War is not only "childish" but also "embarassingly infantile".
Second, you're missing my point. Action games (and movies) by definition have violence for its own sake. Complaining about is likecomplaining that a platformer has jumping for the sake of jumping or a shooter has shooting for the sake of shooting.
Your postings in this thread make you come off as either a prude or a pollyanna who believes that all games should be babysafe (you've called games with what you arbitrarily label excessive violence or sex as pornography for kids).
CarnageHeart
1) Show me anywhere in that quote where I said that I was OFFENDED. Nope, I don't see that anywhere.
2) Don't even try to pretend like games have to be loaded up with gore just because they are "action games".
Anyway, you can make whatever assumptions about me that you want. If anything, that just shows that you need to think of games as being "mature" in order to get some enjoyment out of them. I don't have to do that. I'll play colorful cartoony-looking games...if they're fun. I'll play childish M-rated gorefests...if they're fun. I don't have to dress them up in my head as being "mature", I'll still play them being completely well-aware that they are childish.
Senseless infantile gore and sex? Its obvious you've neverplayed the game. :roll: First off, God Of War's storyline is actually pretty deep and complex, one that is infused with themes of betrayal, love, strife, revenge, tragedy, and empowerment. There are much more sophisticated elements at work here than just "senseless gore and sex." Secondly, if Sin City's target demographic consisted mainly of 13 year old boys, it would be rated PG 13 instead of rated R.
Who determines what is infantile and what is not? You or thelegislators? What does "infantile" even mean anyway? Why stop at 13 year old children? What if you were tobroaden the definition to include babies and toddlers? Would it then make sense to say that sex andviolence is subject matter that appeals to babies and toddlers as well? When was the last time you've seen a 3 year old sneak a peek into an issue of Playboy magazine and get sexually aroused by pictures of boobies?
BladesOfAthena
I define what's infantile, since the TC was asking our opinions about childish games. What, am I supposed to use YOUR criteria for childishness when gicing MY opinion?
And yeah I've played God of War (among other childishly gory games). Still not my idea of a deep or complex story.
[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"]That's complete and utter nonsense. So you're going to dismiss a game like God Of War as childish simply for one tiny aspect that isn't even representative of the entire game? foxhound_fox
"Childish" doesn't mean it is "appropriate for children." It just means content that is very immature, and designed for people who aren't inclined to adult tendencies. And I think you might be surprised how many 13 year olds play Halo and Call of Duty... M-rated games. It is a fashion statement for them to play those kinds of games. Hell, I went through that phase myself. I scoffed at games like Mario at 13, and instead played M-rated games like Metal Gear Solid and Syphon Filter... despite having no grasp at the story they were trying to tell. It was because it is "cool" to do things adults normally get to do, and how children/teenagers are "prohibited" from doing those things.
There is a vast difference between using "mature" content for the sake of having it there, and using mature content in a meaningful, and most importantly mature way. It might not be appropriate for children, but that doesn't mean it isn't childish.
I think the C. S. Lewis quote posted sums up this entire discussion quite well. The idea that bright colours, lack of blood/gore/sex, and fairy-tale like stories make anything "childish" is a gross misunderstanding of what "maturity" actually is. The stories in a lot of animated films, especially those by Pixar, are far more mature than most R-rated films. Hell, look at Watership Down... the rabbits f***ing MURDER each other, and there is reasoning behind it. Its animated, it is essentially a G-/PG-rated film, but it is probably the last thing most parents these days would consider showing their kids.
And yet, a lot of us grew up with that kind of content... and honestly, I don't see what is wrong with exposing children to violence and sex at a young age. It teaches them about the world. On top of that, I don't understand how "sheltering" children from this kind of stuff is healthier than being there to explain and contextualize it... that's the parents job, to explain the world from an adult level, so a child can understand it. Sure, there are a select few kids out there with developmental problems that prevents them from understanding right and wrong, and discerning reality from fantasy... but that isn't the media's fault.
Okay, honestly I'm confused by what you're saying here. So why would it be considered immature if its the adult thing to do? The same thing could be said about drugs, sex, and alcohol. As bizzare as it seems, there are kids out there who dabble into these things just to feel more grown up. Should these sorts of activities be then deemed as immature just as well? Sure, there may be plenty of 13 year olds that play Halo and Call Of Duty, but so what? That's just by coincidence. I'd wager that there are just as many, if not more adults that play these games...though not for the same reasons that kids play them. The fact that kids play them in spite of the rules and regulations enforced by the ESRB doesn't necessarily mean that the content itself is infantile, otherwise you would also have to conclude that a 12 year old thatprefers watchingSaving Private Ryan over Toy Story would indicate that Saving Private Ryan is a movie intended towards kids. :P
[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"]
Senseless infantile gore and sex? Its obvious you've neverplayed the game. :roll: First off, God Of War's storyline is actually pretty deep and complex, one that is infused with themes of betrayal, love, strife, revenge, tragedy, and empowerment. There are much more sophisticated elements at work here than just "senseless gore and sex." Secondly, if Sin City's target demographic consisted mainly of 13 year old boys, it would be rated PG 13 instead of rated R.
Who determines what is infantile and what is not? You or thelegislators? What does "infantile" even mean anyway? Why stop at 13 year old children? What if you were tobroaden the definition to include babies and toddlers? Would it then make sense to say that sex andviolence is subject matter that appeals to babies and toddlers as well? When was the last time you've seen a 3 year old sneak a peek into an issue of Playboy magazine and get sexually aroused by pictures of boobies?
MrGeezer
I define what's infantile, since the TC was asking our opinions about childish games. What, am I supposed to use YOUR criteria for childishness when gicing MY opinion?
And yeah I've played God of War (among other childishly gory games). Still not my idea of a deep or complex story.
That's quite a bold statement to make but I still don't see how games like God Of War or Call Of Duty fall under childish or infantile when most parents and congressmen frown upon the notion of exposing objectionable content towards impressionable underage children. Should we also file Saw and Showgirlsin the children's section as well? :P
[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]
First things first. Stop lying about what you've said in past posts. Just one page back you said:
And given that we're NOT talking about the ESRB ratings, and that no one has really made any attempt to DEFINE what makes a game "childish", then it's absolutely fair game to say that crap like God of War is not only "childish" but also "embarassingly infantile".
Second, you're missing my point. Action games (and movies) by definition have violence for its own sake. Complaining about is likecomplaining that a platformer has jumping for the sake of jumping or a shooter has shooting for the sake of shooting.
Your postings in this thread make you come off as either a prude or a pollyanna who believes that all games should be babysafe (you've called games with what you arbitrarily label excessive violence or sex as pornography for kids).
MrGeezer
1) Show me anywhere in that quote where I said that I was OFFENDED. Nope, I don't see that anywhere.
2) Don't even try to pretend like games have to be loaded up with gore just because they are "action games".
Anyway, you can make whatever assumptions about me that you want. If anything, that just shows that you need to think of games as being "mature" in order to get some enjoyment out of them. I don't have to do that. I'll play colorful cartoony-looking games...if they're fun. I'll play childish M-rated gorefests...if they're fun. I don't have to dress them up in my head as being "mature", I'll still play them being completely well-aware that they are childish.
Now that I've pointed out your lies and biases, you are trying to attack me as a guy who only plays games because they are 'mature' in the sense that they have content inappropriate for children?
Unlike you, I don't have any hang-ups about content, so I enjoy gory games like Dead Nation, Siren, Killzone 2, GoW3 and Dead Space, but I also enjoy games like Littlebigplanet (my favorite series of all time), The Sims, Loco Roco, Ratchet and Clank and Modnation Racers.
Like the TC, your insecurities and hang-ups lead you to blindly avoid/attack games just because their content makes you uncomfortable. You and the TC have the right to be insecure, but when you slander good games just because of your insecurities, I will call you out on it.
[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]
[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"] [QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"]
[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]
[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"]
Senseless infantile gore and sex? Its obvious you've neverplayed the game. :roll: First off, God Of War's storyline is actually pretty deep and complex, one that is infused with themes of betrayal, love, strife, revenge, tragedy, and empowerment. There are much more sophisticated elements at work here than just "senseless gore and sex." Secondly, if Sin City's target demographic consisted mainly of 13 year old boys, it would be rated PG 13 instead of rated R.
Who determines what is infantile and what is not? You or thelegislators? What does "infantile" even mean anyway? Why stop at 13 year old children? What if you were tobroaden the definition to include babies and toddlers? Would it then make sense to say that sex andviolence is subject matter that appeals to babies and toddlers as well? When was the last time you've seen a 3 year old sneak a peek into an issue of Playboy magazine and get sexually aroused by pictures of boobies?
BladesOfAthena
I define what's infantile, since the TC was asking our opinions about childish games. What, am I supposed to use YOUR criteria for childishness when gicing MY opinion?
And yeah I've played God of War (among other childishly gory games). Still not my idea of a deep or complex story.
That's quite a bold statement to make but I still don't see how games like God Of War or Call Of Duty fall under childish or infantile when most parents and congressmen frown upon the notion of exposing objectionable content towards impressionable underage children. Should we also file Saw and Showgirlsin the children's section as well? :P
Why are you continually ignoring his definition? He is clearly using the word "childish" in the juvenile sense of the word. If you've ever dealt with ten year or twelve year old boys, you'll find they have a peculiar fixation with violence. He is NOT making the argument that these games are for children. He's saying that they're immature. If you had paid more attention, that would be fairly obvious.[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]
[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"]That's complete and utter nonsense. So you're going to dismiss a game like God Of War as childish simply for one tiny aspect that isn't even representative of the entire game? BladesOfAthena
"Childish" doesn't mean it is "appropriate for children." It just means content that is very immature, and designed for people who aren't inclined to adult tendencies. And I think you might be surprised how many 13 year olds play Halo and Call of Duty... M-rated games. It is a fashion statement for them to play those kinds of games. Hell, I went through that phase myself. I scoffed at games like Mario at 13, and instead played M-rated games like Metal Gear Solid and Syphon Filter... despite having no grasp at the story they were trying to tell. It was because it is "cool" to do things adults normally get to do, and how children/teenagers are "prohibited" from doing those things.
There is a vast difference between using "mature" content for the sake of having it there, and using mature content in a meaningful, and most importantly mature way. It might not be appropriate for children, but that doesn't mean it isn't childish.
I think the C. S. Lewis quote posted sums up this entire discussion quite well. The idea that bright colours, lack of blood/gore/sex, and fairy-tale like stories make anything "childish" is a gross misunderstanding of what "maturity" actually is. The stories in a lot of animated films, especially those by Pixar, are far more mature than most R-rated films. Hell, look at Watership Down... the rabbits f***ing MURDER each other, and there is reasoning behind it. Its animated, it is essentially a G-/PG-rated film, but it is probably the last thing most parents these days would consider showing their kids.
And yet, a lot of us grew up with that kind of content... and honestly, I don't see what is wrong with exposing children to violence and sex at a young age. It teaches them about the world. On top of that, I don't understand how "sheltering" children from this kind of stuff is healthier than being there to explain and contextualize it... that's the parents job, to explain the world from an adult level, so a child can understand it. Sure, there are a select few kids out there with developmental problems that prevents them from understanding right and wrong, and discerning reality from fantasy... but that isn't the media's fault.
Okay, honestly I'm confused by what you're saying here. So why would it be considered immature if its the adult thing to do? The same thing could be said about drugs, sex, and alcohol. As bizzare as it seems, there are kids out there who dabble into these things just to feel more grown up. Should these sorts of activities be then deemed as immature just as well? Sure, there may be plenty of 13 year olds that play Halo and Call Of Duty, but so what? That's just by coincidence. I'd wager that there are just as many, if not more adults that play these games...though not for the same reasons that kids play them. The fact that kids play them in spite of the rules and regulations enforced by the ESRB doesn't necessarily mean that the content itself is infantile, otherwise you would also have to conclude that a 12 year old thatprefers watchingSaving Private Ryan over Toy Story would indicate that Saving Private Ryan is a movie intended towards kids. :P
It's not that confusing. He's suggesting that a lot of videogames take an immature approach to themes. Violence is shown in a graphic, over-the-top manner rather than dealt with more thoughtfully, such as in your Saving Private Ryan example. Violence is generally stylish, and tends to appeal to young, hormonally-imbalanced teenage men. That's not to say these games don't hold broader appeal than that (Halo still has interesting gameplay, beyond the straight-up "I'm shooting people in the face!" selling point), but that there's certainly a level that appeals to a more immature aspect of gamers.
Okay, honestly I'm confused by what you're saying here. So why would it be considered immature if its the adult thing to do? The same thing could be said about drugs, sex, and alcohol. As bizzare as it seems, there are kids out there who dabble into these things just to feel more grown up. Should these sorts of activities be then deemed as immature just as well? Sure, there may be plenty of 13 year olds that play Halo and Call Of Duty, but so what? That's just by coincidence. I'd wager that there are just as many, if not more adults that play these games...though not for the same reasons that kids play them. The fact that kids play them in spite of the rules and regulations enforced by the ESRB doesn't necessarily mean that the content itself is infantile, otherwise you would also have to conclude that a 12 year old thatprefers watchingSaving Private Ryan over Toy Story would indicate that Saving Private Ryan is a movie intended towards kids. :P
BladesOfAthena
I think the basic way of elucidiating this is this:
Doing something "mature" to feel more mature is immature. Doing something "mature" because it is enjoyable is mature. And adolescents tend to do "mature" things because they don't want to associate with their immaturity, and want to feel empowered by being able to do things they aren't "allowed" to do. It is rooted in adolscent rebellion.
Just because a game is rated M doesn't mean its content is actually "mature." It just means that the content is not suitable for children up to a certain age as defined by the ESRB. They have nothing to do with "maturity"... and honestly, I think "M" should be changed to "AO" and 18+, because having the two ratings, and them being distinguished basically by explicit sex scenes is ridiculous.
And your Saving Private Ryan example is flawed. The intended audience isn't what makes it mature/immature, it is the reasoning behind including the content. Is it included in a meaningful way that helps tell a story? Or is in included for the sake of including it out of an appeal to styIe?
That's quite a bold statement to make but I still don't see how games like God Of War or Call Of Duty fall under childish or infantile when most parents and congressmen frown upon the notion of exposing objectionable content towards impressionable underage children. Should we also file Saw and Showgirlsin the children's section as well? :P
BladesOfAthena
Never seen Showgirls. I'd definitely saw that Saw is childish, though.
Now that I've pointed out your lies and biases, you are trying to attack me as a guy who only plays games because they are 'mature' in the sense that they have content inappropriate for children?
Unlike you, I don't have any hang-ups about content, so I enjoy gory games like Dead Nation, Siren, Killzone 2, GoW3 and Dead Space, but I also enjoy games like Littlebigplanet (my favorite series of all time), The Sims, Loco Roco, Ratchet and Clank and Modnation Racers.
Like the TC, your insecurities and hang-ups lead you to blindly avoid/attack games just because their content makes you uncomfortable. You and the TC have the right to be insecure, but when you slander good games just because of your insecurities, I will call you out on it.
CarnageHeart
For someone with no hangups about games, you certainly seem to be pretty desperate to defend the idea that the games that you like are mature.
If you DON'T have any hangups about content (be it violent content, or just plain stupid content), then what's there to DEFEND? I don't have any problem admitting that I like trashy juvenile games that have little more merit than pornography or your average direct-to-video action movie. What's got you so "hung-up" that you feel the need to personally defend the game?
[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]
Now that I've pointed out your lies and biases, you are trying to attack me as a guy who only plays games because they are 'mature' in the sense that they have content inappropriate for children?
Unlike you, I don't have any hang-ups about content, so I enjoy gory games like Dead Nation, Siren, Killzone 2, GoW3 and Dead Space, but I also enjoy games like Littlebigplanet (my favorite series of all time), The Sims, Loco Roco, Ratchet and Clank and Modnation Racers.
Like the TC, your insecurities and hang-ups lead you to blindly avoid/attack games just because their content makes you uncomfortable. You and the TC have the right to be insecure, but when you slander good games just because of your insecurities, I will call you out on it.
MrGeezer
For someone with no hangups about games, you certainly seem to be pretty desperate to defend the idea that the games that you like are mature.
If you DON'T have any hangups about content (be it violent content, or just plain stupid content), then what's there to DEFEND? I don't have any problem admitting that I like trashy juvenile games that have little more merit than pornography or your average direct-to-video action movie. What's got you so "hung-up" that you feel the need to personally defend the game?
So first you stated I was biased against 'brightly colored' games, now you are stating that I am biased not because of the games I enjoy, butbecause I am disagreeing with you. I established your willingness to contradict your prior arguments in my second post in this thread, so I guess I shouldn't be shocked that you are continuing to do so.
Oilers99 wrote: Why are you continually ignoring his definition? He is clearly using the word "childish" in the juvenile sense of the word. If you've ever dealt with ten year or twelve year old boys, you'll find they have a peculiar fixation with violence. He is NOT making the argument that these games are for children. He's saying that they're immature. If you had paid more attention, that would be fairly obvious.
Uhhhh......read the first and last line ofhis earlierquote genius. :roll:
More to the point...a lot of the "mature" content in videogames seems deliberately marketted towards "immature" people. Case in point, the sex minigames in the God of War series. Sure...that gets rated "mature" because it shows nudity and implies sex. But it's really "mature" in the same way that comic books only make women dress like DDD-breasted hookers because they're assuming that their audience is comprised of young boys who are too young to get their hands on real porn.
Oilers99 wrote: It's not that confusing. He's suggesting that a lot of videogames take an immature approach to themes. Violence is shown in a graphic, over-the-top manner rather than dealt with more thoughtfully, such as in your Saving Private Ryan example. Violence is generally stylish, and tends to appeal to young, hormonally-imbalanced teenage men. That's not to say these games don't hold broader appeal than that (Halo still has interesting gameplay, beyond the straight-up "I'm shooting people in the face!" selling point), but that there's certainly a level that appeals to a more immature aspect of gamers.
So basically your point is that young teenage boys like violence, therefore its 'teh kiddy.' Okay.....that's a pretty lame argument that lacks objectivity. Well then, why single them out? Why not include other age groups like infants and pre-adolescent kids? Doesviolence appeal to them too? To be fair, there are many, many action films that display violence in an over the top and stylish manner [insert Jet Li film here] and believe it or not, there are plenty of adults that do enjoy watching them just for that very reason. Does it mean its immature? No. You can be mature and appreciate violence too. Its justput in there merely to amuse and entertain. The fact that kids are allured by it is merelycoincidental. What maturity boils down to is one'sownreaction to it, and kids, unlike adults, generally are impressionable and lack self control, which is things like the ESRB exists. THAT'S how you define maturity.
So first you stated I was biased against 'brightly colored' games, now you are stating that I am biased not because of the games I enjoy, butbecause I am disagreeing with you. I established your willingness to contradict your prior arguments in my second post in this thread, so I guess I shouldn't be shocked that you are continuing to do so.
CarnageHeart
Actually, I never stated either of those things.
But hey...you can imagine if it makes you feel better.
So basically your point is that young teenage boys like violence, therefore its 'teh kiddy.' Okay.....that's a pretty lame argument that lacks objectivity. Well then, why single them out? Why not include other age groups like infants and pre-adolescent kids? Doesviolence appeal to them too? To be fair, there are many, many action films that display violence in an over the top and stylish manner [insert Jet Li film here] and believe it or not, there are plenty of adults that do enjoy watching them just for that very reason. Does it mean its immature? No. You can be mature and appreciate violence too. Its justput in there merely to amuse and entertain. The fact that kids are allured by it is merelycoincidental. What maturity boils down to is one's reaction to it, and kids, unlike adults, generally are impressionable and lack self control, which is things like the ESRB exists.
BladesOfAthena
Ah...now we're getting down to it.
Here's the thing...some people see cute looking **** like Mario and say, "that looks kiddy...if I like it, that makes me childish." Other people say, "that game looks childish, but it looks like fun so I'm gonna play it anyway."
The thing is...once we ASSUME that our preferences define us as people, then it's extremely easy to let that change our perceptions. For example, people who want to pirate software often won't pirate software while acknowledgeing that they're bad for doing it. Instead, they make up EXCUSES for pirating software, because that allows them to still do the "bad" behavior while still seeing themselves as good people. Then...there are some people who say, "yeah...stealing this software isn't morally justifiable, but I'm gonna do it anyway because I like free stuff."
Bottom line...there are people whose own sense of self-worth is defined by what they like. If they like something immature, they think that makes THEM immature. The standard practice them is to say that what they like ISN'T IMMATURE. Trust me...I have nearly 50,000 posts on a videogame website, and I also go to movie and art websites. I see this kind of stuff ALL THE TIME. It usually isn't "this is a bad game, but I like it anyway." It's usually "the critics are WRONG."
See...here's the thing. I NEVER SAID that mature people can't appreciate senseless and pointless violence. I'll also never say that responsible and respectable law-abiding citizens of the community can't dabble in illegal drugs. I'll never say that non-perverted people can't occasionally appreciate some really sick-ass pornography. So...WHY would my stance be any different with videogames? I like porn, but it doesn't mean that I think there's any worthwhile value to it. It's just...pornography. I like watching certain movies, I like listening to certain musical acts, I like playing certain videogames. That doesn't mean that I have to pretend that that stuff has any redeeming value. That's because I DON'T subscribe to the idea that I am defined by what kind of entertainment I like. I'll watch certain stuff and laugh my ****ing ass off. You can then say that it was stupid and childish, at which point I'll probably be more likely to say, "yeah...but I love that **** anyway." I feel absolutely zero inclination to defend stuff that I like as having merits, just because I like it. I watch what I like, I play what I like, I listen to what I like. How "mature" or how "childish" it is matters not one bit to me.
OF COURSE there are lots of mature adults who enjoy mindlessly violent movies and videogames. I don't recall EVER saying otherwise. It's more telling that you'd ASSUME that's what I was saying about those PEOPLE, just because I said something about the MOVIES/GAMES that they enjoy. Most of my closest acquaintances have HORRIBLE taste in movies, and like to watch what I consider to be total trash. It's not as if I use their taste in movies/games to judge their worth as PEOPLE. So...why do so many people feel the need to judge THEMSELVES on such worthless criteria?
i'm 24 going on 25 and i play super mario galaxy 2 and thought that donkey kong country returns is a great game, although i wouldn't play a spongebob game...
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." — C.S. Lewis.
I would love to. But i cant get into them anymore. I am having real hard time getting into any JRPGS these days...To be honest, i have troubles getting into any games that are not rated M...Unless it is a sports game or a special case like Arkham Asylum (rated T in US), Alan Wake (T)....
I think the basic way of elucidiating this is this:
Doing something "mature" to feel more mature is immature. Doing something "mature" because it is enjoyable is mature. And adolescents tend to do "mature" things because they don't want to associate with their immaturity, and want to feel empowered by being able to do things they aren't "allowed" to do. It is rooted in adolscent rebellion.
Just because a game is rated M doesn't mean its content is actually "mature." It just means that the content is not suitable for children up to a certain age as defined by the ESRB. They have nothing to do with "maturity"... and honestly, I think "M" should be changed to "AO" and 18+, because having the two ratings, and them being distinguished basically by explicit sex scenes is ridiculous.
And your Saving Private Ryan example is flawed. The intended audience isn't what makes it mature/immature, it is the reasoning behind including the content. Is it included in a meaningful way that helps tell a story? Or is in included for the sake of including it out of an appeal to styIe?foxhound_fox
So now you're saying that in order to determine what's mature and what's not, the violence being implemented must now serve a purpose. Okay, now here's what I'm having a problem with. Getting back to your earlier statement, why do you consider Gears of War to be more childish than Donkey Kong Country Returns? Is this argument you're making based on the plot itself, or is it based on the gameplay? If its in terms of the plot, then how is retrieving bananas from the evil Tikis any more "adult" than saving the world from the Locusts? With DKCR, part of your objective is clearing obstacles by stomping on enemies and avoiding hazards. Sounds pretty simple, no? Which then leads me to some questions: what real purpose do the enemies serve other than to hinder Donkey's Kong goal of taking his bananas back? Why are the evil Tikis so interested in his bananas? Do they have any real motives? Is there a backstory behind each character? If that's the case you're trying to make, then I don't see how that qualifies as an intellectual stimulant.
As for your claim that The ESRB's rating system has nothing to do "maturity", I disagree. I think that the system has a much more objective basis on determining material that's deemed appropriate for certain demographics. See, having to determine a game's level of maturity by how sophisticated the storyline is strikes me assubjective reasoningbecause if you're going to say that GeoW's is "childish" simply due to its plotline, then you would also have to assess DKCR's storyline under the same standards. You can't say that "GeoW is lame and childish because it has a shallow storyline" and then turn around and say "oh but DKCR is intellectually stimulating because it has awesome gameplay!" because that would constitute as cherry picking.
There's nothing mature about violence for the sake of violence. The games can be fun but let's not pretend that the violence actually adds anything to the game other than the wow factor.
anthonycg
I think over the top violence can add to a games' experience, though adding maturity is generally not one of them.
I do enjoy it when a developer approaches extreme violence in a self-aware, ironic way. Like the No More Heroes series. You get to enjoy the stylized, over the top violence but you know the whole time that it's aware and doesn't take itself seriously. A game that can make a mockery of itself can get away with a lot more. I prefer that much more than the games that are like "hey, look how cool and mature I am with all this violence and sexual themes" (which is, most M rated games).
I wish I could say it didn't matter and was only based on merit, but in my own personal gaming time I have to admit it's the reason I do not have a wii or want one. I know it sounds like a judgement call or an insult, but I don't really know what to call it. I've played it many times, as recently as Xmas, and I've even bought wii games for my own relatives (whose parents are older than I am and also like the wii) but I have no interest in playing any of the games, no matter what they are, beyond what I get once in a while at other's houses etc. I guess childish isn't as accurate as maybe casual? I don't know - to me it just isn't the kind of gaming I like and the more chlld oriented it is, like cuter, simpler graphics, family friendly or non existant story, the less I like it. I feel like the time I am sinking in to gaming is foolish or inappropriate, if that makes sense. But if I am playing a game like Bioshock or Demon's Souls or Mass Effect those thoughts never enter my head - I guess being fully absorbed in the game world is very important to me and if I feel too removed from it, it just isn't the same experience for me. I feel a "distance" from games the more childish they get. I guess someone could say the Ratchet and Clank games are childish but I've played and loved those, so it's tough to fully explain what I mean.
I consider gaming as an overall childish activity. And yes, I do play games that children play.
yess, what's wrong? If they're good games...Yeah, we still do. I like variety.
I play games that are fun. And what's wrong with childish things exactly?
Lucianu
I play anything that's good. I just haven't found as many non-mature games that were worth playing this generation, save for a few Wii titles.
BladesOfAthena... bunch of stuff at me. Tags won't close or something.
BladesOfAthena
I did read his first quote. In fact, I'm stunned that you can't read it and come to the same conclusion. He's talking about games marketed for "mature" audiences. And if you think "young boys" means six year olds, well, then you aren't paying much attention. At what age would someone start getting interested in sex? At the beginning of adolescence, whenever that is. We're talking about 12-15 year old boys, here. Not children, young teenagers. Kids where puberty has kicked in, and they are looking for games that indulge their immature fantasies about sex and violence.
And yet you continue to insist that immaturity is referring to children.
Who ever said immaturity is specifically about children? Why is one of the primary adjectives attached to teenagers "immature", then? The idea is that enjoying violence for its own sake is something that a lot teenage boys do, and that can be a sign of immaturity, because violence for its own sake is a very bad thing. Want to argue it's just a videogame? Sure, but doesn't change the fact of what you're actually taking pleasure in. It appeals to an immature aspect of ourselves that, when boiled down to its basic, is I WANT TO SEE THING SUFFER AND DIE.
Maturity is not binary, where you're either mature or you're not. Otherwise, how could adults fully grown ever accuse each other of being "immature", as they will often do when they fight? Because maturity and immaturity are on a spectrum, and can be applied to a wide variety of things. If you associate wisdom and character with brutally decapitating human beings, then that's your business, but just so you know, you're absolutely and totally wrong. It's immature! Frankly, I don't think that anyone who plays these games is necessarily immature, because it's not so much what you do as who you are, but it's certainly appealing to a more base aspect of yourself. You can maintain that and on the whole be mature, but that does not change the fact that it does, in my mind, point to a particular character issue of immaturity. Here's what immaturity is; it is not being mature, where maturity is developing into an adult, not a man-child as many are, where you are acting as an adult should. There's plenty of room for debate on what a mature adult should look like, but if you want to argue that wanting to see things suffer and die is part of being a mature adult, then frankly, I think your definition of adulthood is insane.
[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"]
BladesOfAthena... bunch of stuff at me. Tags won't close or something.
Oilers99
I did read his first quote. In fact, I'm stunned that you can't read it and come to the same conclusion. He's talking about games marketed for "mature" audiences. And if you think "young boys" means six year olds, well, then you aren't paying much attention. At what age would someone start getting interested in sex? At the beginning of adolescence, whenever that is. We're talking about 12-15 year old boys, here. Not children, young teenagers. Kids where puberty has kicked in, and they are looking for games that indulge their immature fantasies about sex and violence.
And yet you continue to insist that immaturity is referring to children.
Who ever said immaturity is specifically about children? Why is one of the primary adjectives attached to teenagers "immature", then? The idea is that enjoying violence for its own sake is something that a lot teenage boys do, and that can be a sign of immaturity, because violence for its own sake is a very bad thing. Want to argue it's just a videogame? Sure, but doesn't change the fact of what you're actually taking pleasure in. It appeals to an immature aspect of ourselves that, when boiled down to its basic, is I WANT TO SEE THING SUFFER AND DIE.
Maturity is not binary, where you're either mature or you're not. Otherwise, how could adults fully grown ever accuse each other of being "immature", as they will often do when they fight? Because maturity and immaturity are on a spectrum, and can be applied to a wide variety of things. If you associate wisdom and character with brutally decapitating human beings, then that's your business, but just so you know, you're absolutely and totally wrong. It's immature! Frankly, I don't think that anyone who plays these games is necessarily immature, because it's not so much what you do as who you are, but it's certainly appealing to a more base aspect of yourself. You can maintain that and on the whole be mature, but that does not change the fact that it does, in my mind, point to a particular character issue of immaturity. Here's what immaturity is; it is not being mature, where maturity is developing into an adult, not a man-child as many are, where you are acting as an adult should. There's plenty of room for debate on what a mature adult should look like, but if you want to argue that wanting to see things suffer and die is part of being a mature adult, then frankly, I think your definition of adulthood is insane.
I love to watch the suffering of others. That's what make games great. /sarcasm
Seriously man I agree with some of this but the gore is simply an over-the-top way of showing how you beat the bad guys. No one is thinking about things suffering when they play video games. It's no different than cops and robbers. The only difference is that the gore only intensifies how badly you beat the other player.
The only human aspect that is channeled is competitiveness. The amount of gore is an indicator of how well you were able to defeat your opponent. If you really think watching things suffer is a basic aspect of human nature then you really need to take that psychology class again. Twice...
And does it really take all that to say "I think gore is immature?" I don't think so but you went way off with all that suffering gibberish. It's fine to not like gore but you don't have to get all holier-than-thou about it.
I am 40 and still play anything that is fun. :) Heck I still want a wii so I can play mario
As far as the confusion around what constitutes a game as "childish", lets go down the list, shall we?
1) Does the game's art style look like a cartoon?
2) Is the game's story something you could see in a made for TV after-school special?
3) Does playing the game in front of your cool friends make you feel uncomfotable?
Then the game in question is childish and meant for children and adults who still play Nintendo and collect action figures. You could maybe nit-pick a few examples for each question but doing so would just prove you like kiddy games. Why deny it? Just admit you like games for kids and enjoy them. Don't get mad and try to defend your immature taste in games - its YOUR taste after all. Enjoy it until the day it makes you feel awkward about it...
Sounds to me like you're the one who's sad and a bit immature byresorting to name-calling on the internet. Those games are for everybody, not just children.I play Mario Kart DS when I'm on the toilet but that's it. I had completely grown out of gaming until I played Resident Evil 2 on the PS1 thanks to Nintendo. Now I just play PC games and Demon's Souls for PS3, which is the best console game I may have ever played.
That said, I think its hilarious that the adults who play kiddie games here get super upset when you point out that the games they play are meant for children. They end up acting like children by crying about your post in public and reporting it to mods, proving once and for all that they really are just big kids and deserve to stay with Nintendo for the rest of their sad lives...
trollop_scat
What exactly is "childish" to you exactly? I turn 27 soon yet enjoy titles like Little Big Planet and Costume Quest. Are those the sort of game you refer to? You know a game isn't childish just because it doesn't have a lot of blood and violence right?not really but with the exception of ninja turtles and mega man and few others but they are quitefew, i hate childish games like those on ds. i hate puzzle and platformers
grandacemaster
I'll play anything that is fun.
As far as the confusion around what constitutes a game as "childish", lets go down the list, shall we?
1) Does the game's art style look like a cartoon?
2) Is the game's story something you could see in a made for TV after-school special?
3) Does playing the game in front of your cool friends make you feel uncomfotable?
Then the game in question is childish and meant for children and adults who still play Nintendo and collect action figures. You could maybe nit-pick a few examples for each question but doing so would just prove you like kiddy games. Why deny it? Just admit you like games for kids and enjoy them. Don't get mad and try to defend your immature taste in games - its YOUR taste after all. Enjoy it until the day it makes you feel awkward about it...
trollop_scat
Lets use Super Mario Galaxy as an example for you exceedingly simpleistic and skewed conditions for what makes a game "childish".
1. Yes, Mario games have always had a bright cartoony look.
2. The story for all the core mario games are always the same. Bowser kidnaps Peach, go save her.
3. Nope, but that's probably cause I'm an adult and not self-conscious and also don't hang around with people too insecure to allow themselves to enjoy a game that they would deem "kiddy". But others could easily feel uncomfortable playing Mario Galaxy in front of certain people.
So by these guildlines SMG is a childish game. Have you ever seen a young child try and play that game? I've never personally seen anyone under the age of 10 able to play that game with any sort of skill or success. Now if you're talking about SMG2, push that age up a few years. Heck points 1 and 3 could easily apply to World of Warcraft, does that mean WoW is a game for children?
Heck I'm 28, I still need to pick up Kirbys Epic Yarn and Donkey Kong Country Returns. By contrast I just beat Assassins Creed: Brotherhood a few weeks ago, as well as currently playing Darksiders and my second playthrough of Mass Effect 2.
As far as the confusion around what constitutes a game as "childish", lets go down the list, shall we?
1) Does the game's art style look like a cartoon?
2) Is the game's story something you could see in a made for TV after-school special?
3) Does playing the game in front of your cool friends make you feel uncomfotable?
Then the game in question is childish and meant for children and adults who still play Nintendo and collect action figures. You could maybe nit-pick a few examples for each question but doing so would just prove you like kiddy games. Why deny it? Just admit you like games for kids and enjoy them. Don't get mad and try to defend your immature taste in games - its YOUR taste after all. Enjoy it until the day it makes you feel awkward about it...
trollop_scat
Really the only thing your post has done has brought your own maturity into question.
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