When did video games start to suck so bad?

Twilight Princess was a great game. It's not representative of modern gaming though. It's a 10 year old game. It's from the tail end of the PS2 / Gamecube / Xbox generation. It's honestly a bit baffling that someone would bring up a 10 year old game when trying to criticize the state of modern gaming.

Modern gaming is fine. If you were to make this thread 5 years ago, you'd be onto something, but we've had another renaissance since then and gaming is back as good as it's ever been.

I think after 2007 (Amazing year, with all the games having a gajillion sequels from then till now) everything was just rinsed and repeated. There's been hardly anything to come out since then that's any different. Maybe Dark Souls...all the other games that are popular now spawned from that year. Then all the gaming devs were bought up under 2 huge publishers, for the most part, and new games began to suck. Your welcome.

COD and people needing to have the highest k/d ratio and not being cooperative. Poisoned online gaming.

I have no idea what you're talking about. But judging your point of view, I predict that if you don't like the state of things now, you definitely won't change your mind in the future.

The more games you consume, the more they will look the same and the less you'll be impressed. And especially if you like specific genres, you'll quickly run out of things to get excited about, because there's only so much to innovate and there's only so long companies will cater to an aging generation before reiterating concepts for the younger generation that doesn't have as much experience. Either broaden your horizon or start looking for something else to do, because things are not going to change.

I think gaming started to go down hill in quality around the time the Wii, PS3, and 360 era came along. Not that all the games were bad or anything but I recognized a major quality difference in that period when the Wii came out and I played Smash Brawl for the first time. I still enjoy that game and think its a good game but it felt like a major quality shift from the previous Melee and earlier generation we went through at the time.

No, no, no, and no, OP.

You must be playing the same handfuls of classics over and over with nostalgic eyes because there were A LOT of crap games in every generation of gaming.

These current generations of gaming have been great! There's a lot of great memorable games available and indies to scratch that nostalgic itch. Even classics are getting ports with new features like upscaling and trophies.

Yes, the development is a lot less personal, but these are devs building complex, huge worlds to explore.

Sure, there are tons of cinematic games, but there are also many straight-into-action games (DOOM is my current one I'm playing).

I think, OP, that you have been deceived by nostalgia. Anyway, Twilight Princess, I've heard, is a love or hate game.

@jquinzelle: The lack of personal touches in games is why these huge worlds aren't worth exploring any more. They are like mass produced food. Sure it might sound fancy on the box with the expensive marketing but underneath it is a factory processed piece of shit full of salt and chemicals that has rolled off of the conveyor belt.

MGS V boring as ****.

Fallout 4 NOTHING worth seeing in the entire fucking map.

Mad Max just generic to the bone.

Assassin's Creed just a map with HUNDREDS of icons thrown across it none of which are even remotely interesting.

I pretty much outright refuse to buy linear games now because they offer nothing but shallow experiences and shit stories.

It used to be that games were built around a story or idea and then the world fleshed out around it. NOW they just throw together a boring ass world and smear some half arsed story over it.

A GOOD example of games is Witcher 3. You can tell from that game that there were serious personal touches all over it. Even things like the bestiary are fascinating to read because they are interesting and tell a piece of lore.

Compared to Fallout 4 where you hack into a terminal and expect the same well written piece of lore, instead what you get is half a paragraph of some boring drivel that adds NOTHING to the game.

@dexda:

Sounds to me like you really love your Lore.

@dexda: I tend to agree a bit that PSX and PS2 sort of hit the sweet spot. Also Dreamcast, and Gamecube. I might argue that the XBOX 360 was more successful than the XBOX, and was a generally better platform than the PS3 and Wii, though. I also think handheld gaming was impressive with the DS and GBA, but a bit less so with the 3DS. Though, the Vita is better than the PSP imo.

All of this really means nothing. But I think one thing that makes sense to me is that the one factor that has changed gaming for the worst? Is online gaming.

The Dreamcast took a more arcade-style approach to gaming and was one of the first game systems to really take online play forward in a big way. And the 360 was the first console that I think really succeeded with the online subscription model. That is perhaps why they get a free pass in my eyes. The fact of the matter is, online gaming has ruined single-player gaming in a lot of ways.

Furthermore, lots of great innovative developers have closed shop, so a lot of those great game series' of yesteryear are in the past. It's mostly the remaining AAA companies and indie teams left.

Another thing to consider is that there is no longer this set path in mind for what the future of gaming should hold. A lot of people thought consoles would be no more by now. They were wrong. A lot of people think VR is the future. They may or may not be wrong. It is clear, however, that lots of idiots nowadays are content to play shitty touchscreen games on their smartphones.

The sixth generation never sucked.

When 5 or 6 companies got really really greedy and all the good developers left. Now we are left with 4 or so major developers that hiked up the price to develop games because people are greedy and a bunch of pretentious wannabe developers that don't know how to develop games worth crap. Really all the oldschool developers are old now. And the new ones have been brought up in this age of crap and don't even know what makes a good game nor do they have the budget to even make them.

Serious though just look at gamespot and a lot of gamers today. They are pretentious idiots who aren't worth anything. As long as they are getting paid and money is going in someone's pocket they don't care or even know better.

It isn't nostalgia either. If you look at companies in the 80's and early 90's there were tons of major developers and they all had to make new games or they failed. Now you have the same 5 companies making the same games over and over. There were tons of major developers and each company had a ton of good games. Now on psn you have releases of tim schafer games and so old rockstar games when there were a ton more than that. Microprose, Westwood, Interplay, Bullfrog, Sierra, Brodurbund, Maxis, Atari, Access, Accolade, Origin, Lucasarts and about a million more alogn with bioware, blizzard, ea, activision etc... All those companies are gone now

Just look at the amount of games published by westwood studios from about the mid eighties and through the 90's. That's just one development house

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westwood_Studios

Back then there was always something and lots of different and interesting games to choose from. Now it's the same games over and over and a lot of junk and generic filler or pretentious artsy stuff.

Take a game like Populous for example. That game made Peter Moleuox then he became a puppet. Sid Meier was another guy who's still going though. But developers back then were creating genres. They were actually creating games and genres. Even the adventure genre. Now developers go out there trying to make an adventure game and use those rules vs actually making one with todays technology. We get Uncharted or the Witcher but you don't see any other takes on that with todays technology at all. That's it or we get a cheap knockoff. They are all developed to sell to the masses too and the lowest common denonominator and it shows in how those games are designed so a complete moron could play them.

The best develoeprs today are the ones that have managed to compete and get big enough like Rocksteady, and CD Project Red as well as a few others. But big publishers gobbled up all those developers and closed a lot of them or just put them out of business. Kept Bioware and Bungie around and Blizzard but even those companies aren't really doing much. Rocksteady is even controlled by Warner Brothers and it's not the same. EA, Sony, Microsoft, Activision, Warner Brothers, Nintendo. Those are the 5 or 6 companies I'm talking about. There is a lack of midlevel development in general. There is a lack of new ips and franchises. A lot of these developers run out of ideas and don't fail when they should. When they can market the same stuff over and over and have the bank to do that it is what it is. They also control who gets what.

Wait! Hahaha.... Wait. Are we seriously arguing that a ZELDA game is too cinematic? My god, someone give this guy a copy of Uncharted 4, then he'll see what real cinematic games are like.

This generation I find myself playing indie games much more than ever. The big publisher games are too much about flash and not fun for me so I play games like Rebel Galaxy, Rocket League, FTL, Broforce, Ori and the Blind Forest etc. This gen u gotta do a little more research to find the good ones and it helps to have a pc so you aren't limited to the big publisher games on the shelves of the store.

@Lulekani: In an RPG? Yeah it is kind of the point of exploring.

Otherwise you only go out to find better weapons. All so you can go kill better enemies and find even better weapons.

Then you get into the boring ass loot cycle that Destiny and Diablo have and that is only a game people with addictive personalities can love.

For an RPG, set in a world that feels ALIVE and interesting you need to find more than just a slightly different type of gun or armour. Another thing Fallout 4 fucked up. Every weapons was one of the same five odd weapons in the game with a slightly different variation of mod. Totally boring and pointless.

In Oblivion when you go to that new map marker and suddenly you find some awesome side mission that you never expected to find that sends you on a massive journey. With awesome characters and backstory. That is what was missing from Skyrim and Fallout 4.

Even the books in Skyrim and Fallout 4 were boring. In Witcher 3 even the little pieces of paper that you pick up from Bandits were well written.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamix

another great company gone defunct. Games used to be a lot better. Look at the amount of games they used to put out. They were all original and creative too. Games used to speak to my imagination. Now not so much. It isn't nostalgia either. If those companies were making games like that with todays tech that would be great but they aren't. They were all bought out or put out of business. And most people don't know how to make games anymore.

Big Budget publishers and gamers are too concerned with marketing and content than actual substance. Most games now entail having meaningless side content and tasks to complete that have nothing to do with the actual game. They don't actually make games. Most games are all the same or you have cheap knockoffs and indie junk. People are sheep.

Gaming has always had shitty games. Your rose-tinted glasses only let you remember the good ones from retro times. If anything, the ratio of crap to good games was far greater back then than it is now. It only seems like more now because there is more of it... but there is also a lot more good games now too to balance it out.

And Twilight Princess is an excellent game. How far did you make it in? Because once you get past the first few hours and the dreadful, condescending tutorial section, it really comes to life. It's the only 3D Zelda game I've ever finished. And I did it twice.

Games are another form of art, and I certainly don't object to cutscenes. They are still amazing.

I personally think gaming has gotten better over the years. Yes there are plenty of games that suck, but there are also plenty that are awesome. This Gen alone we have The Witcher 3, Ori and the Blind Forest, Rocket League, No Man's Sky, Yoshi Woolly World, Splatoon, Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds, Stella Glow, Abzu, Rise of the Tomb Raider etc...all of which are great games in my opinion. There are also quite a few more I could add to that list. They may not be for everyone but the sheer variety of games you can choose from today means most people can easily find a game they love. I suppose the variety is what makes gaming today seem so much better to me.

If current video games have seen a great fall in quality, then why we have yet seen a major backlash among gamers or yet another video game crash?

@Celtic_34: Saying it isn't your nostalgia speaking doesn't make it so. Lines like "look at the amount of games they put out, all original and creative too" pretty much proves that lol.

Yea, there's always a lot of crap out there, but the thing is the high points were a lot higher. (specifically talking about mainstream gaming here)

Games lost their way when all this big AAA nonsense started. It's a general trend that games now appeal to the common lowest denominator, instead of challenging the player to climb up to the game's level.

The biggest thing to blame is the merging of game studios, the few big ones started buying every studio that put out anything good. With that the emphasize moved from artistic expression to making the biggest buck most efficiently. Instead of original ideas, game studios are now producing games using safe formulas that are kind of entertaining for players and that's the limit of it.

Two now dominant mechanisms were popularized: minimizing the impact of the fail state, achievements and leveling in non RPG context (Modern Warfare), and with that most games have become steady riding (no real ups and downs), more fast paced, more automation in how the character controls, more grindy, always trickling the bare minimum to keep the player interested. As a result they also become much less engaging.

This is what I'm saying. There was never an age of gaming without its crap games. Sure, you could pick out a collection of two dozen classic games and hype them up, but that doesn't mean there wasn't crap alongside them.

This generation is the same thing, different day. Some games are all flash and little substance, but that's not EVERY game. It's true that many games have chosen the cinematic approach, but that's because it's possible now. I'm pretty sure without the hardware limitation of yesteryear, game companies would have gone cinematic decades ago. Hell, most classic RPGs borderline on cinematic; long texts, scripted stories, fleshed out characters. All they're lacking are the angles and cutscenes, something that wasn't easy on, say, the SNES. The first PlayStation had games that tried to be cinematic (Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Silent Hill).

I think the OP is just in love with nostalgia and doesn't realize that the problem isn't with the current generations, but rather his nostalgia glasses.

@dexda:

Well yeah thats common knowledge.

What I find odd about this whole thing is people seem to think that the problem needs to be Disguised rather than Fixed.

After all.... from a Game play Stand point even the RPGs with good lore Still have that same loot kill grind Cycle.

I guess what I'm asking is do people think using good lore to mask the problem is something thats perfectly acceptable ?

@biggamerdude:

To say something is Art is virtually meaningless since the Term pretty much has no Definition.

Anything can be Art..... if someone says it isn't then one can say its a Different form of Art.

@bussinrounds:

Why is everyone so Obsessed with Fail States Lately ?

This has to be one of the things I find most confusing. The increase of Gamer's and Developer's Obsession with Punishment.

Not really. Games are crap now. Just factual. Most people are sheep. It actually is me saying it isn't nostalgia. There were a lot more games back then and they were more creative.

The fact you are saying I'm not saying that when I clearly stated "it isn't nostalgia" just goes to show how dumbed down people have become. It's like wtf is that?

@Celtic_34: @vfighter:

I swear to god if you two devolve into some weird "Me saying that you saying" type of Argument, then I'm going to.... well I'm going to Tell My Mom !!!! :(

pffhaha. Look at that, a subjective opinion, based by the assertion of being a fact. Sorry, but f'ing lol.

Why not take the adult route and just admit that it is an evolving art form, and games are better and worse in different ways. It's not overly complicated.

Christ, @Celtic_34, way to be a fuckwad.

"Games are crap now. Just factual"?

Your mother should have had an abortion. Just factual.

See what I did there? I just turned your shitty, little kid attitude back at you. Progressive? Constructive? True? Not really.

Well, except the part where you're a fuckwad. That is true.

It is nostalgia, kid. How many of those creative games you speak of were platformers? How many top-down RPGs? How many shooters? For every "better" game, there's like a dozen shit games. Any generation.

You live with nostalgia, kid, and can't admit it.

Oh, and I don't care what age you are, you are a damn kid because you act like one.

@Lulekani: Well not exactly. In Destiny the ENTIRE point of the game is to go find loot. All so you can fight and go find more loot. Pointless, never ending cycle designed to waste your life.

In proper RPGs you find loot and better weapons in order to PROGRESS THE STORY. Or to get access to tougher areas. You aren't just grinding loot for the sake of grinding.

In Witcher 3 getting the best armour and weapons not only makes you look bad ass, it is fun finding/crafting them and it makes the end boss even better because you know that you worked to get up to that standard.

Unlike Diablo where the only thing you have to show for your thousands of hours grinding is a little number on your stats that no one gives a flying f*ck about.

i don't think you can group mgs v in with games like mad max or assassin's creed.

i'd agree the latter are just about as formulaic and predictably underwhelming as games come but if you think mgsv is boring as f*ck then that's your fault for buying a game whose gameplay style doesn't appeal to you. it has some of the best dynamic and tactical stealth based open world gameplay out there. if you disagree, name some games from the past ten years that do it better - alien isolation, crysis and dishonored are the only games that i can think of that compete but are still quite different in either style and setting. recognising that it has its faults (which of course it does) or if that style of game isn't your cup of tea then that's fair enough but credit where it's due, it does a lot of things extremely well.

fallout 4 is a bit harder to categorise. i'd class it overall as a disappointment but again don't think it should be lumped in with mad max or ac

I've been gaming since 1996 and it's been amazing every gen, of course nothing beat gen 6 but hey everything before gen 6 was JRPG or gtfo, now we have amazing WRPG's,AA, Indies, JRPG's, FPS ect ect ect

If gaming sucks then you should really find a new hobby.

Maybe your'e just burntout. I'm burntout. Plus the games lack something, this is true. HL2 is still the best shooter by far.

@dexda:

Well thats the Point I'm getting at. They are very similar. Infact one could make the Argument that Grinding for the sake of Grindind is actually alot more honest than Grinding for the Sake of Story or Beating Optional Tough Areas.

You're subject to the same type of System either way.....

From what I've played in the past eight to nine years it's definitely not as good as it can or could be, and honestly it's very frustrating to see a new game fail to surpass or even match an older one most of the time. Having said that, I feel times are about to change for the better.

I'm sorry but the majority of the argument can be summed up in nostalgia. There are games that were awesome during my childhood in the late 80's, 90's and 00's but there are some games I've been wowed by recently. For instance, Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were amazing on N64 back in the day. While they were fun then, I will literally take any COD over those games now. There are plenty of great games out now, peoples standard are just a lot higher than they were then.

For example, back then, I was just grateful for the change in graphics between say Atari to NES, to SNES to N64 to PS... There were loads of games that by today's standards would totally suck but because we were so in awe by the changes in graphics, we enjoyed them either way. These days, there's no such big leap in graphical fidelity so it really comes down to a lot of the other aspects that make a good game, such as great writing, intuitive controls and gameplay, etc.

@mountain2012: Production budgets grow and grow, but average enjoyment doesn't seem to grow with it.

Sometime after Call of Duty 4.. I dunno.. Things just went downhill from there.. I mean, GTA V, Last of us, AC brotherhood ( And rouge ) Were a few really good ones.. But 60 - 90 % of games after the start of the Ps3/Xbox 360 era have been.. Too be honest.. S***

Try playing different games

I think gaming is in a better place than it ever has been, as a consequence of its continued growth as a wide-reaching medium. There's a lot of places to get games now, and a lot of ways to play them. It is not a purely rosy picture - there are a lot of problems, like microtransactions, free2play schemes, publisher shenanigans, of course. Those flaws, however, do not detract from what I consider to be a very vibrant and expressive stage.

The breadth of gaming experiences available is impressive. Even if you have a microthin budget, stuff like humble bundles and steam sales enable the procurement of genuinely good games at really good prices, and if you're not a stickler for needing a cutting edge experience, you can enjoy most of those games without needing expensive hardware to do so.

There's a lot of stuff out there available for scott-free too, and I'm not talking about piracy, but honest-to-goodness good games for free.

I think the end of the PS2 is the turning point. At that time Dance Dance Revolution and Guitar Hero pretty much changed the landscape making video game mainstream and accepted. Everyone became a gamer at that point.

The 360 capitalized on this by making online a core part of the system, many shooters, many cinematic games, acheivements. Then Nintendo came in with the Wii making game Mainstream for good.

@wwefan4ever: Well said lol. I've been gaming for decades and I've enjoyed every gen. There are literally thousands of different games at our disposal. If you're having even the slightest trouble finding some that you like maybe you should find another hobby.

When great FPS shooters started copying COD4 that when the dumbing down started so after 2007.Open world games are still great sometimes but FPS and MP gaming to a huge hit when Devs just took the blueprints to COD4 and ruined their games. Just look how dumbed down the Battlefield series has become ever since Bad Company. Also compare the original F.E.A.R. and Crysis to their sequels gameplay wise they all have been dumbed down. You still see the effects from it today just look at SWBF2 gameplay no tactics no skill just run around like a moron great for casuals I guess.

Why resurrect this?

Quite possibly the worst OP I have ever read.