Why are used games an "issue"?

How is selling a game secondhand different to selling almost any other product?

I don't understand why some people think it is bad to sell used games, or that it is cheating the developer/publisher of money. This isn't an issue in any other industry.

When you buy a house secondhand, you don't send money to the architect or the builder. You don't send money to the car manufacturer when you buy a secondhand car; they also have very significant research and development costs, like games.

Imagine if we treated books as we do games; when you go to the library, should you send money to the author of every book you borrow? Or shoud you buy every book you ever need new, and then keep them forever? And can you imagine the cost of education if every time you wrote a paper you had to buy every copy of the book brand new (many textbooks are hundreds of dollars)? Every university paper would cost you thousands of dollars, for books you will likely only use once, for a few hours. Yet books are creative works, just like games. What's the difference?

Why is the publisher/developer "owed" money from the sale of used games? I do not understand the reasoning.

Because video games require support. If you bought a game that didn't run on your computer, would you complain? After a book is printed, there's no 1-800 number to ask how to activate your product. You don't ask the author of a book how to read do you? I'm not thrilled about ending used game sales, but if it's a move to making everything available on digital download, then at least I have that.

To people's argument on "if the game sucks", I have this: accept responsability. If your unsure, watch a friend play it. When you buy ice cream, you don't ask for a partial refund, you accept that you hate the flavor and move on.

With the cost of high end games increasing and the how many see the action of the large companies as nickle and dime the player.

That problem is that are pick and choosing the facts they want to work with when defending how bad used games are.

well, i can definitely understand where publishers/developers are coming from. buying the game used can in some cases take away from their sales (although i think a lot of used game purchases were price sensitive or because that's the only copy the gamer could find).

still, i think there should be a second hand market and developers/publishers should be looking at themselves. a lot of games are difficult to find new because publishers stop making copies after a few months. are gamers supposed to say "well, it looks like i missed that game"?

then the other problem is that a lot of developers that are complaining about gamers disposing of their games at gamestop are making disposable games to begin with. make a game that means something and i think fewer people would be so quick to pawn it away.

To people's argument on "if the game sucks", I have this: accept responsability. If your unsure, watch a friend play it. When you buy ice cream, you don't ask for a partial refund, you accept that you hate the flavor and move on.

JasonGriffee

Because this is the whiniest of all of the industries. Which is why it fully deserves to implode.LongZhiZi

One does get the feeling we're on the cusp of some sort of revolution- for better or worse :\

With the cost of high end games increasing and the how many see the action of the large companies as nickle and dime the player.

That problem is that are pick and choosing the facts they want to work with when defending how bad used games are.wiouds

What the problem is, is they're overspending money on budgeting & advertiaing trying to be more like Hollywood nowadays. Used games has been around for 20+ years.

Because this is the whiniest of all of the industries. Which is why it fully deserves to implode.LongZhiZi

This. 

still, i think there should be a second hand market and developers/publishers should be looking at themselves. a lot of games are difficult to find new because publishers stop making copies after a few months. are gamers supposed to say "well, it looks like i missed that game"?

LoG-Sacrament

[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"]

 

still, i think there should be a second hand market and developers/publishers should be looking at themselves. a lot of games are difficult to find new because publishers stop making copies after a few months. are gamers supposed to say "well, it looks like i missed that game"?

ESPM400

That is true. I am not a big fan of digital download since the cost of games seem to stay higher langer.

If video games cost as much as ice cream did, it'd be a lot easier to just accept responsibility if I ended up buying a game I didn't like and had no way to get some of my money back.1PMrFister

[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"]

still, i think there should be a second hand market and developers/publishers should be looking at themselves. a lot of games are difficult to find new because publishers stop making copies after a few months. are gamers supposed to say "well, it looks like i missed that game"?

ESPM400

It should not be an issue, but devs and pubs make it into an issue and blow the situation way out of proportion. 

Used games do not exist without someone making that purchase new at some point. This seems to be the key point that most people forget. The 'damage' from used sales is negligable compared to what is possible with piracy. A given game can be torrented hundreds, thousands, even millions of times. How many times is a game bought then traded in during its lifetime? Ten times? Maybe 20 at the most?

It boils down to the publishers and devs being entitled whiners, thinking it is possible to continue to have control of a product that is sold and no longer theirs.

Because video games require support. If you bought a game that didn't run on your computer, would you complain? After a book is printed, there's no 1-800 number to ask how to activate your product. You don't ask the author of a book how to read do you? I'm not thrilled about ending used game sales, but if it's a move to making everything available on digital download, then at least I have that.

To people's argument on "if the game sucks", I have this: accept responsability. If your unsure, watch a friend play it. When you buy ice cream, you don't ask for a partial refund, you accept that you hate the flavor and move on.

JasonGriffee

Well the only reason I use a console is for used games because otherwise you might aswell get an upgraded pc that way it looks and feels better fro games

They aren't really an issue, they just want to make it an issue. Developers don't see any of the money when you buy a game at Walmart anyway.

And a digital only future will suck badly for us, the consumer, and anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fairytale land. I'll give you an example. I bought Streets of Rage 2 when it came out on XBLA, except now it doesn't work anymore because Microsoft took down all the Streets of Rage games and combined them all into 1 download, so now I can't play a game that I paid for and Microsoft basically robbed me of $10. If gaming becomes digital only, this and more than likely many other crappy things will happen to gamers regularly.

With game sales continuing to slide, I think game makers and console makers (which get royalties from the sale of third-party games for their platforms) are feeling more pressure to kill off the used game market.  It seems to me that it would make more sense for game makers to provide incentives to encourage people to choose new games over used ones rather than come up with yet another anti-consumer DRM scheme that would prevent consoles from playing used games.  Then again, if game makers and console makers had sensible management, game sales wouldn't be sliding.

How is selling a game secondhand different to selling almost any other product?

 

I don't understand why some people think it is bad to sell used games, or that it is cheating the developer/publisher of money. This isn't an issue in any other industry.

When you buy a house secondhand, you don't send money to the architect or the builder. You don't send money to the car manufacturer when you buy a secondhand car; they also have very significant research and development costs, like games.

Imagine if we treated books as we do games; when you go to the library, should you send money to the author of every book you borrow? Or shoud you buy every book you ever need new, and then keep them forever? And can you imagine the cost of education if every time you wrote a paper you had to buy every copy of the book brand new (many textbooks are hundreds of dollars)? Every university paper would cost you thousands of dollars, for books you will likely only use once, for a few hours. Yet books are creative works, just like games. What's the difference?

 

Why is the publisher/developer "owed" money from the sale of used games? I do not understand the reasoning.

thesikho

Used games provide more people with access to video games, which in turn spreads the industry with more potential customers.

I think it's illegal for them to make a console that can't take used games in Europe

I don't buy used games. I borrow games from friends sometimes, so yeah it's an issue. And you can't compare Ice cream with Video games.You can share non-refundable Ice-cream, not video games.

There really isn't any issue with used games. Developers and publishers are just butt-hurt, greedy and corrupt, so they're trying to make it seem like there is.

They'll do ANYTHING to get as much money as possible out of the consumer.

Anyone who says buying used games hurts the developers has their head up their ass. They've been fooled by the developers who cry: "why won't you guys support us!? DX"  

Getting rid of used games will HURT the gaming industry. A lot of people will discontinue their support by not purchasing new games/consoles anymore.

I definitely will if this anti-used game tech becomes a reality. We shouldn't continue to support this bullsh*t.

The issue here is that we deserve to be punished for our continued loyalty and support that has carried over decades! People who can't afford to pay 40-45 pounds on a new game every other week, for shame!

One reason: $$$

There really isn't any issue with used games. Developers and publishers are just butt-hurt, greedy and corrupt, so they're trying to make it seem like there is.

They'll do ANYTHING to get as much money as possible out of the consumer.

Anyone who says buying used games hurts the developers has their head up their ass. They've been fooled by the developers who cry: "why won't you guys support us!? DX"

Getting rid of used games will HURT the gaming industry. A lot of people will discontinue their support by not purchasing new games/consoles anymore.

I definitely will if this anti-used game tech becomes a reality. We shouldn't continue to support this bullsh*t.

GeoffZak

I am growing very tired of the industry, and it is hurting my overall interest in video games. Even the marketing, the awful Dead Space 3 trailer with the Phil Collins song I thought was a joke, is getting to a point where it gets under my skin. I hate it, it's all about money and when something reaches that point quality takes a back seat to quantity.

I don't think used games or even rentals are a big problem. They have existed in the market since the Atari. I can even remember renting PC games and at the time there were games on PC that made almost all of their money selling on PC with franchises that are still around like C&C. Now almost all top selling games make the majority of their money on consoles which are the most resell friendly platforms. To change that and go towards a less consumer friendly direction some developers have taken on PC recently would be a mistake. People simply want to be able to buy a game and play it. They don't want to worry about some glitch on the verification server or their own internet being down preventing them from playing the game. If developers believe the restrictions that some developers like EA have on their PC games is such a great idea why does EA make the majority of their money on consoles that don't have these restrictions? Food for thought.

3) Everyone else. I fit into this category, as I suspect a majority of gamers does. Yes, I purchase used games, but only games that are not "sure things." Maybe I enjoy the occasional shooter, so I'll buy a 2 year old copy of Call of Duty and play it for a weekend or two. However, this type of player has the biggest growth potential for the industry. I bought Mass Effect 1 used almost two years after it came out.... and loved it. I bought Mass Effect 2 and 3 new on day one and bought a lot of DLC to go along with it. The same thing happened with Dead Space, Uncharted, and Demons's Souls. The opportunity to buy a used game at a discount turned me into a fan of those franchises, when I may not have bought in if a retail-priced new copy was all that I had available. I buy 7 or 8 new games a year, but half of them I wait for sales and I rarely pre-order. If I can't trade in games I've finished towards those new purchases, new purchases will happen a lot less often. It is ridiculous to think if the used option is taken away in the next generation that I will buy the same amount of games new, it just doesn't work that way.thegroveman

Good points. Also I have bought a ton of games because I was able to borrow or rent them first as well as became a fan of series I might have otherwise never tried. The example I will give is relevant because the series is now owned by the developer who is pushing this kind of thing the hardest. I remember being in awe of C&C while at a friends house so he lent me his GDI CD as he had completed that campaign. The game was great and I had not even played half way through when I decided I needed to get the game myself. After that I bought every C&C game and every expansion until they had this internet required nonsense on the most recent games. I didn't like that in fact I have been off PC gaming for some time now due to things like this.

Anyway the business model of making your game available for people to try and play is a good one that seems to have been abandoned on PC by many devs. You simply don't get demos like Doom shareware or anything like that anymore. The focus seems to be on making sure you are stuck with any game you buy and not allowing any decent amount of trial before you make that decision. On consoles you can still rent before buying, borrow games and sell your games. This model allows the consumer to be much more adventurous when considering games and to be able to try games and genres they aren't sure they will enjoy. The model works and in my opinion the older PC model was better as I touched on in my previous post. If the current console model is bad why did so many long time PC devs re-focus their resources from PC to consoles this generation? I feel the model many developers currently have on PC is the flawed one and if they replicate it on consoles it will not be a good outcome for them or any console manufacturer who promotes it.

[QUOTE="GeoffZak"]

There really isn't any issue with used games. Developers and publishers are just butt-hurt, greedy and corrupt, so they're trying to make it seem like there is.

They'll do ANYTHING to get as much money as possible out of the consumer.

Anyone who says buying used games hurts the developers has their head up their ass. They've been fooled by the developers who cry: "why won't you guys support us!? DX"

Getting rid of used games will HURT the gaming industry. A lot of people will discontinue their support by not purchasing new games/consoles anymore.

I definitely will if this anti-used game tech becomes a reality. We shouldn't continue to support this bullsh*t.

Blueresident87

I am growing very tired of the industry, and it is hurting my overall interest in video games. Even the marketing, the awful Dead Space 3 trailer with the Phil Collins song I thought was a joke, is getting to a point where it gets under my skin. I hate it, it's all about money and when something reaches that point quality takes a back seat to quantity.

Exactly why the days of Atari to the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox are much, much better. There was no DLC, DRM, Online passes, etc. bull****.

[QUOTE="Blueresident87"]

[QUOTE="GeoffZak"]

There really isn't any issue with used games. Developers and publishers are just butt-hurt, greedy and corrupt, so they're trying to make it seem like there is.

They'll do ANYTHING to get as much money as possible out of the consumer.

Anyone who says buying used games hurts the developers has their head up their ass. They've been fooled by the developers who cry: "why won't you guys support us!? DX"

Getting rid of used games will HURT the gaming industry. A lot of people will discontinue their support by not purchasing new games/consoles anymore.

I definitely will if this anti-used game tech becomes a reality. We shouldn't continue to support this bullsh*t.

Shinobi120

I am growing very tired of the industry, and it is hurting my overall interest in video games. Even the marketing, the awful Dead Space 3 trailer with the Phil Collins song I thought was a joke, is getting to a point where it gets under my skin. I hate it, it's all about money and when something reaches that point quality takes a back seat to quantity.

Exactly why the days of Atari to the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox are much, much better. There was no DLC, DRM, Online passes, etc. bull****.

Yet, the cost of making the game has gone up and gamers refuse to pay more for a complete game.

[QUOTE="Shinobi120"]

[QUOTE="Blueresident87"]

I am growing very tired of the industry, and it is hurting my overall interest in video games. Even the marketing, the awful Dead Space 3 trailer with the Phil Collins song I thought was a joke, is getting to a point where it gets under my skin. I hate it, it's all about money and when something reaches that point quality takes a back seat to quantity.

wiouds

Exactly why the days of Atari to the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox are much, much better. There was no DLC, DRM, Online passes, etc. bull****.

Yet, the cost of making the game has gone up and gamers refuse to pay more for a complete game.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

[QUOTE="Shinobi120"]

Exactly why the days of Atari to the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox are much, much better. There was no DLC, DRM, Online passes, etc. bull****.

Bigboi500

Yet, the cost of making the game has gone up and gamers refuse to pay more for a complete game.

It is not because they want games to be cinematic blockbuster. It comes from many gamers asking for the best game we can get and that still cost more. Current games have improved in a number of ways and not just cinematic.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

Yet, the cost of making the game has gone up and gamers refuse to pay more for a complete game.

wiouds

It is not because they want games to be cinematic blockbuster. It comes from many gamers asking for the best game we can get and that still cost more. Current games have improved in a number of ways and not just cinematic.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]That's because for a lot of us, we as customers didn't ask for big budget cinematic blockbuster games with outrageous production costs that try to be more like movies than video games. Remember the saying "the customer is always right" ?

 

Bigboi500

It is not because they want games to be cinematic blockbuster. It comes from many gamers asking for the best game we can get and that still cost more. Current games have improved in a number of ways and not just cinematic.

Many of those companies also listen to their customers and did not do many DLC and other things like that.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

It is not because they want games to be cinematic blockbuster. It comes from many gamers asking for the best game we can get and that still cost more. Current games have improved in a number of ways and not just cinematic.

wiouds

Many of those companies also listen to their customers and did not do many DLC and other things like that.

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]If you look at the numbers of developers that went out of business this generation alone, it's obvious that those developers falsly assumed people would want their product and like their vision, so they spent too much money trying to make the next trendy mainstream game, but it didn't happen. Not every developer can emulate what Naughty Dog or Epic does, yet they tried and fell flat on their faces.

Bigboi500

Many of those companies also listen to their customers and did not do many DLC and other things like that.

Is it? Many companies that does have follow that practice are now closed. Their employees have lost their jobs. Have they done the right thing?

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

Many of those companies also listen to their customers and did not do many DLC and other things like that.

wiouds

Is it? Many companies that does have follow that practice are now closed. Their employees have lost their jobs. Have they done the right thing?

That's because for a lot of us, we as customers didn't ask for big budget cinematic blockbuster games with outrageous production costs that try to be more like movies than video games. Remember the saying "the customer is always right" ?

Bigboi500

^This^

I hate developers that value graphics more than gameplay.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

That's because for a lot of us, we as customers didn't ask for big budget cinematic blockbuster games with outrageous production costs that try to be more like movies than video games. Remember the saying "the customer is always right" ?

GeoffZak

^This^

I hate developers that value graphics more than gameplay.

Game play have improved a great deal since the gen started. I can not see the cost of graphic being the biggest factor in the increase in game development..

Sorry, wiouds, but I have to agree with Bigboi500 on this issue.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

Yet, the cost of making the game has gone up and gamers refuse to pay more for a complete game.

wiouds

It is not because they want games to be cinematic blockbuster. It comes from many gamers asking for the best game we can get and that still cost more. Current games have improved in a number of ways and not just cinematic.

It is mostly the fault of the devs themselves that production costs have gone up so much. Take what happened to Kingdoms of Amalur, it was stated that 3 million copies needed to be sold of that game to BREAK EVEN. That is absolutely insane to be a brand new company making their first game with zero brand recognition to waste that much money that it would need to be that successful.

[QUOTE="GeoffZak"]

There really isn't any issue with used games. Developers and publishers are just butt-hurt, greedy and corrupt, so they're trying to make it seem like there is.

They'll do ANYTHING to get as much money as possible out of the consumer.

Anyone who says buying used games hurts the developers has their head up their ass. They've been fooled by the developers who cry: "why won't you guys support us!? DX"

Getting rid of used games will HURT the gaming industry. A lot of people will discontinue their support by not purchasing new games/consoles anymore.

I definitely will if this anti-used game tech becomes a reality. We shouldn't continue to support this bullsh*t.

Blueresident87

I am growing very tired of the industry, and it is hurting my overall interest in video games. Even the marketing, the awful Dead Space 3 trailer with the Phil Collins song I thought was a joke, is getting to a point where it gets under my skin. I hate it, it's all about money and when something reaches that point quality takes a back seat to quantity.

Basically why I stopped buying consoles last gen.  On PC, I find a lot less bullsh!t and many more games and devs who put effort in the right places.

Used games are not an issue, but new games are.

Games are overpriced, wake up peoples