Why Should Violence & Hatred Always Be The Center of Gameplay?

I used to be like most of the people here. I enjoyed violence and knew little to nothing about how the media influences society. But now, I have a far greater understanding of mass media. In addition, I am more religious. And as a result of having looked at a realistic depiction of the emotions that surround violence as well as how violence looks, I no longer feel joy in it. In fact, I am a nonviolent individual, having studied the ways of Gandhi's philosophy of Satyagraha and MLK's philosophy of Christian Satyagraha, which both teach people to be nonviolent.

As we look upon many of the popular things in mass media, we see that violence and sex, as well as hatred are often glorified. This is truly the case in the video games industry. Almost every game offers violence as the only option for moving throughout a storyline. Sure, cut scenes have dialogue and other things, but that is not interactivity. Why do games not make full use of interactivity, to the point where dialogue can be done in real time as well as many other non-violent things? Well, many people in mass media know that stereotypes and other unrealistic expectations are easy to sell to a huge audience and they deceive many people. That is why most of the content that we see not only displays violence, it glorifies it. Look at the theme of revenge. How many times has it ever been deglorified? Even William Shakespeare's plays glorified it.

Has the whole world gone mad? Why do we need to continue seeing violence and hatred at the center of gameplay?

You already made a board just like this one, and everyone called you silly. What makes you think this one will be different?JML897

well violence in society usually ends in you getting arrested, or even worse. id rather get the thrill of doing it in a virtual world and not get penalized :)pygmahia5

[QUOTE="pygmahia5"]well violence in society usually ends in you getting arrested, or even worse. id rather get the thrill of doing it in a virtual world and not get penalized :)mattykovax

Do you know why they put violence in the media and video games?

It is because it is in our instinct to kill. Whether you like it or not we all have that side of us we seem to avoid so much. Our species in general for thousands of years hunted and KILLED to fight for survival. These instincts, like many other animal's instincts, are natural and have just built up over generations and generations. Saying violence isn't necessary is like is like telling a little kid not to play on the playground or even look at it. Just the sight of violence curbs our enthusiasm for violence, at least for most people. There are those sick freaks out there who just kill for s***s and giggles and those are the real sick people.

Exposure to violence can be a good thing if taken right. It just shows the reality of our world and the violence that occurs whether you like it or not. But now I am getting close to political here and I don't want to go too far. My point is that violence is in our blood (figuratively) and we as humans love to see violence and sex. Sex and Violence, Violence and Sex; they both sell and that is why video games are so based on violence.

So when I see these threads I always wonder why people don't look at that POV

And what? Finding sadness and truth in what violence and hatred bring is too overwhelming for you? I will bet that you never really have felt the true horror of violence and hatred. Instead, you have been keeping most of your life swallowed up by happiness and laughter, that you do not even know the meaning of sadness. Most people fear sadness, so maybe they do not want to bring that into their games. They must be ignorant like the majority of our society.Mawy_Golomb

Do you know why they put violence in the media and video games?

It is because it is in our instinct to kill. Whether you like it or not we all have that side of us we seem to avoid so much. Our species in general for thousands of years hunted and KILLED to fight for survival. These instincts, like many other animal's instincts, are natural and have just built up over generations and generations. Saying violence isn't necessary is like is like telling a little kid not to play on the playground or even look at it. Just the sight of violence curbs our enthusiasm for violence, at least for most people. There are those sick freaks out there who just kill for s***s and giggles and those are the real sick people.

Exposure to violence can be a good thing if taken right. It just shows the reality of our world and the violence that occurs whether you like it or not. But now I am getting close to political here and I don't want to go too far. My point is that violence is in our blood (figuratively) and we as humans love to see violence and sex. Sex and Violence, Violence and Sex; they both sell and that is why video games are so based on violence.

So when I see these threads I always wonder why people don't look at that POV

Iceman8012

contact and collision are central to gameplay - it's how we help define the term 'interaction'. these forces are apart of our universe and are reflected upon the earth and in our lives and in the game.

'violence' can take many forms and ideas and is often placed over this layer of casuality (cause and effect; physics) to represent what you're experiencing and how you are experiencing it (in the form of graphics; models, textures, animations etc.)

force, speed, and contact are almost essential for video games. if you want to blame something then blame the imaginations of the designers, but the medium of games are innately suited to these violent experiences.

I hate these threads. I really do. There are always two types of people in these kind of threads. The one guy that wants violence abolished from every form of entertainment and everyone else. Removing violence from video games will do nothing. If you don't want to play violent games, be my guest. But don't expect anyone else to follow suit.

Edit: Almost forgot: It is possible to be a religious man and still enjoy a violent game or movie. God is not going to strike you down if you play violent video games, FYI.

I agree that finding violence in the media is still better than seeing it happen in reality. But I still think that game developers can pour more effort into other things besides violence. If removing cut scenes will have designers draw attention to other forms of story telling and interactivity than just violence, then so be it. The Outsider looks like it may be the first game to attempt this. It is going to be the most non-linear game ever, removing itself completely of cut scenes and a script. There will be a heavy reliance on the AI, such that every time you start a new game, you will never be able to play through the story in the same way. And considering that voice technology is growing, with Frontier Developments (creator of Elite franchise, A Dog's Life, Thrillville, and the upcoming game The Outsider) taking up this kind of technology, maybe players will finally be able to control whatever the main character says. Why should someone else voice the main character when the player is the one who is in control of him/her?

Game developers really should pour as much drama into their games as possible, such where violence and other horrible things should shroud a game's world in darkness, much like that of a noir film.

Well if you think about it... what game doesnt have a struggle that means you have to resort to violence or someone hating others?

You can have a game where you go grocery shopping... but alas the pre-cooked chickens at wal mart are all gone... leading me to hatred!

Dont think you could make a game without the two.

Jesus I knew I shouldnt have replied, its like I know better but I just cant help myself.GodModeEnabled

I used to be like most of the people here. I enjoyed violence and knew little to nothing about how the media influences society. But now, I have a far greater understanding of mass media. In addition, I am more religious. And as a result of having looked at a realistic depiction of the emotions that surround violence as well as how violence looks, I no longer feel joy in it. In fact, I am a nonviolent individual, having studied the ways of Gandhi's philosophy of Satyagraha and MLK's philosophy of Christian Satyagraha, which both teach people to be nonviolent.

As we look upon many of the popular things in mass media, we see that violence and sex, as well as hatred are often glorified. This is truly the case in the video games industry. Almost every game offers violence as the only option for moving throughout a storyline. Sure, cut scenes have dialogue and other things, but that is not interactivity. Why do games not make full use of interactivity, to the point where dialogue can be done in real time as well as many other non-violent things? Well, many people in mass media know that stereotypes and other unrealistic expectations are easy to sell to a huge audience and they deceive many people. That is why most of the content that we see not only displays violence, it glorifies it. Look at the theme of revenge. How many times has it ever been deglorified? Even William Shakespeare's plays glorified it.

Has the whole world gone mad? Why do we need to continue seeing violence and hatred at the center of gameplay?

Mawy_Golomb

Let's start with the obvious: A few questions you should ask yourself.

On your spiritual quest to reach some sort of personal enlightenment, did you happen to come across any teachings from your mentors regarding the inherent pitfalls of foisting your own personal beliefs onto other people? Have you pondered the inevitable backlash that your self-righteous musings might evoke in people as you admonish their choice of diversions? Do you reflect on your own choice of words and the way you talk down to people, as if your philosophy is the only viable and proper way to look at the issues you raise?

Firstly, your assessment of this medium is painted with broad strokes while employing crass generalizations, which renders your entire argument flaccid. There are actually a number of games that eschew violent themes so either your own exposure to the medium has been woefully limited or you are purposely omitting this fact to further your own arguments and agenda. If the latter is the reason, we call that propaganda.

Now, pushing aside the structure of your argument, let's delve into some of your assertions:

The glorification of violence - This is a term thrown around quite liberally and often inappropriately. You seem to equate a depiction of violence as automatically endorsing violence, which, when you really consider the proposition, is quite absurd. There have been plenty of films that depict violence as brutal, horrific, and even nauseating, refuting the notion that such works glorify violence. While games are a bit different because they are an interactive medium, plenty of titles have actually given the player choices in terms of how and when to apply violence, essentially letting the gamer deliberate whether a person lives or dies. At the end of GTAIV I literally held a gun on my enemy for several minutes before deciding to let him live. It was an incredibly unique experience.

As to the theme of revenge, as a literary scholar and a teacher, I'd love to know which Shakespearian play you feel glorifies the concept because in most cases, when the revenge thematic is applied, it is painted as a destructive act that destroys everyone in its path, including the one seeking revenge. In Hamlet, his quest for revenge kills just about everybody he loves and ultimately destroys him. In Romeo and Juliet, Romeo's rage at the loss of his friend causes him to slay Tybalt, which in turn begins a chain reaction that leads to his own destruction and the death of his beloved. If you want a more contemporary example of revenge in the media, look no further than Burton's Sweeny Todd, which is ****c Greek tragedy about a man whose lust for vengeance ultimately ruins him. I would actually venture to say that in most cases, revenge is treated as a negative and rarely as a positive.

I'm also fascinated that you mentioned sex in your diatribe, essentially equating it with violence and hatred in terms of being an objectionable presence in the media. I feel compelled to tell you that I find your ****fication of sex, which is one of the more remarkable and sublime experiences of the human condition, to be grotesque and offensive.

In your conclusion, you ask a rhetorical and ultimately ridiculous question: "Has the whole world gone mad?"

The truth is that our world in most respects is a much less violent place than it was even a few hundred years ago. Perhaps in your mind, killing a collection of pixels and polygons has some sort of viable, emotional repercussion but I'm simply too levelheaded, educated and full of common sense to subscribe to such a notion.

I can respect your personal decision not to indulge in media that offends your personal sensibilities just as I can respect your beliefs even as they diverge from my own. What I won't accept is being told that my way is wrong, which is ultimately what you have done with this post.

True enlightenment is being able to live your own life your own way without encroaching on the manner in which others live theirs. I applaud your spiritual growth but I urge you to expand your perceptions, otherwise you risk ignorance and becoming insular and rigid.

Just one question:

Do u consider Smash Bros a violent game????:shock:

The glorification of violence - This is a term thrown around quite liberally and often inappropriately. You seem to equate a depiction of violence as automatically endorsing violence, which, when you really consider the proposition, is quite absurd.

Grammaton-Cleric

+1

Just one question:

Do u consider Smash Bros a violent game????:shock:

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

The glorification of violence - This is a term thrown around quite liberally and often inappropriately. You seem to equate a depiction of violence as automatically endorsing violence, which, when you really consider the proposition, is quite absurd.

Freezing_Knight

+1

I used to be like most of the people here. I enjoyed violence and knew little to nothing about how the media influences society. But now, I have a far greater understanding of mass media. In addition, I am more religious. And as a result of having looked at a realistic depiction of the emotions that surround violence as well as how violence looks, I no longer feel joy in it. In fact, I am a nonviolent individual, having studied the ways of Gandhi's philosophy of Satyagraha and MLK's philosophy of Christian Satyagraha, which both teach people to be nonviolent.

As we look upon many of the popular things in mass media, we see that violence and sex, as well as hatred are often glorified. This is truly the case in the video games industry. Almost every game offers violence as the only option for moving throughout a storyline. Sure, cut scenes have dialogue and other things, but that is not interactivity. Why do games not make full use of interactivity, to the point where dialogue can be done in real time as well as many other non-violent things? Well, many people in mass media know that stereotypes and other unrealistic expectations are easy to sell to a huge audience and they deceive many people. That is why most of the content that we see not only displays violence, it glorifies it. Look at the theme of revenge. How many times has it ever been deglorified? Even William Shakespeare's plays glorified it.

Has the whole world gone mad? Why do we need to continue seeing violence and hatred at the center of gameplay?

Mawy_Golomb

Even if you accept that video games glorify violence, the question still remains: why does it matter? There has been no causal connection established that watching and playing video games lead people to act out that violence, becoming more aggressive in the long term. Playing an Orc Barbarian who slashes though his enemies doesn't make you more likely to lose your temper and use barbarous conflict resolution tactics irl.

Exploring themes of violence, jealousy, hatred is just as important as exploring others in the spectrum of human action and emotion. You can't very well slip some Soma in the water and expect everyone to ignore those aspects of the world.

And violent video games are usually set up with an almost naïvely black-and-white distinction between you and the "bad guys". The bad guys are really really bad and must be stopped... justifying your use of force. (And yes, there are justifiable uses of force. When you're up against people who will stop at nothing to see everyone killed, you can no longer be called a pacifist - you're called suicidal. Non-violence worked for Gandhi and MLK because they were up against regulated representations of government power that did not want them dead.) Where the distinction is less clear-cut, you're usually playing an RPG or Adventure game and you have multiple options for how to approach a certain situation, including non-violent approaches.

Much ado about nothing?

Love your posts Grammaton-Cleric and clicketyclick. Hope I spelt that right, sorry if I didn't.

As many have pointed out, the thread is horribly generalising about games as a whole and of games that do contain violence. I personally enjoy games that give a moral choice, that give options for non violent means to tasks and there are games without violence in them. I also enjoyed CoD4, partly for the great gameplay but the clincher for me was how sad it made me feel when it took away your characters and your allies, hardly glorifying war but showing the consequences can be horrible. GTA doesn't so much glorify violence as take the Micheal out of a lot of things, allow people to have a laugh and sometimes give moral choices, if it wanted to portray violence in a glorified light then Rockstar are surprisingly incompetent. The main characters have never been very warm and loveable, in GTA4 alone, Niko pays for his lust for revenge, loses loved ones and the storyline goes into some of the horror's of war and gangsters.

Yet sometimes some of us don't want or need a game that makes us think or a game that pulls our heartstrings, or even be very complicated but a game where we just turn it on and start shooting things. The Doom's, the Medal of Honours, the Killzone's, the Time Splitter's, we just want to get rid of some energy or boredom and sometimes to get out of ourselves and simply have fun. When my father was made redundant having moved with the firm, he responded by (well obliviously looking for a new job), playing Doom to take away the anger, the hurt and just to escape. He is not a violent man inclined to going around beating people up, nor is he a mean who particularly enjoys shooters, but he needed an escape from the world for awhile. Nothing wrong with some mindless fun that doesn't hurt anyone

There is plenty of games who are not centered on violence or hatred, you simply have to look for it. If you focus only on these titles just as anything in life, you will fail to see what else is around.

Violence and sexuality are integral parts of our nature as men. Living in a society where both are perceived negatively, we search for what we lack, hence the interest into it and why we crave for it. Ever wondered why the internet was full of both for example?

Off topic: As far as Enlightment goes, someone above wrote it almost in a poetic way, you should try his advice because as of now, your thread reeks of ''i am now religious and i frown upon your ways''. Question yourself, find your own beliefs and accept the world and it's nature for what it is. Religion is not spirituality and what you seek is not religion, don't take the lazy path and reflect on your own.

Games aren't supposed to be realistic they are about fun...and well blowing someones head off with a shotgun in a game is brilliant...not like I would ever do that in real life but god its reall fun seeing bodies get destroyed.....yeh best way I can explain this without sounding like a nut is...DESTRUCTION RULES! LOL! I mean creation is nice also but well its even more fun when you destroy creation...SIm City for example. Yeh but just so you know there are nicer games out there, animal crossing for example or harvest moon, sims....and well other games like that, they are the only types of games where hugging can be fun because well it actually effects gameplay. And rinna_seneschal is completely right about diplomacy...most games diplomacy sucks it doesn't solve anything and you don't get your way with things so...the sane thing to do is to pick up a rock and dash it into some A.I.s skull or a nicer and quicker way blow their brains out.stike22

maybe killing/shooting/hitting in games is the easiest way to solve a problem or acomplish a goal. it's about communication isn't it? you're sending signals into the game world with your gun that changes the situation. and change is necessary for any game to function as a game.

Its not that, I usually play as a good character in most games when I first play them and actually care, then I am evil next and evil is a lot better you get more options and things are more fun because destructive acts cause greater changes and challenges then being talkative and nice. The physics when you blow some A.I.s brain out are brilliant, the way their bodies get dashed by whatever you blew them with a grenade, a vehicle, a shotgun or whatever else...magic for instance...things you can do to A.I.s with magic on some games. Brilliant because its just fun. Diplomacy in my opinion is wrong...its cruel and evil and forces us to pick the good path of boredom and talking...nobody wants that.Lol. Bring on carnage, devastation, mayhem, destruction, bodies getting dashed at over 99mph, bodies getting ripped and WAR!!! LOL. You see even typing destructivly is more fun, Lol, its only a game so you pick the funniest path and evil is so much better...why haven't they made a game dedicated to such acts? it would be brilliant. I mean imagine a game dedicated to diplomacy....my GOD! that would be one boring hole of a game....level one: talk, talk, talk some more, yes talk, talk, talk, talk hard, talk really, really hard and then hug.............................................Does that not sound like the * game in the world, nobody likes socializing except people who don't know how to live. Gun over tounge anyday...or better yet AXE or HAMMER because they are shiney and do some damage. Lol. Want a good game, want a destructive game....WANT WAR! (in a game not real life, I am actually very nice in real life...really I am, Lol)stike22

ah..ok i get it! you love violence in games.

well, i agree with most of the stuff you said. the important thing is change. though i do think there are other ways to cause change that don't involve explosives and breaking walls to rubble.

Abbreviation: Really good points.Grammaton-Cleric

the TC isn't even responding or joining in the discussion. great. i hate posters who just start a topic and then dissapear. pointless.

the TC isn't even responding or joining in the discussion. great. i hate posters who just start a topic and then dissapear. pointless.

just_nonplussed

the TC isn't even responding or joining in the discussion. great. i hate posters who just start a topic and then dissapear. pointless.

I used to be like most of the people here. I enjoyed violence and knew little to nothing about how the media influences society. But now, I have a far greater understanding of mass media. In addition, I am more religious. And as a result of having looked at a realistic depiction of the emotions that surround violence as well as how violence looks, I no longer feel joy in it. In fact, I am a nonviolent individual, having studied the ways of Gandhi's philosophy of Satyagraha and MLK's philosophy of Christian Satyagraha, which both teach people to be nonviolent.

As we look upon many of the popular things in mass media, we see that violence and sex, as well as hatred are often glorified. This is truly the case in the video games industry. Almost every game offers violence as the only option for moving throughout a storyline. Sure, cut scenes have dialogue and other things, but that is not interactivity. Why do games not make full use of interactivity, to the point where dialogue can be done in real time as well as many other non-violent things? Well, many people in mass media know that stereotypes and other unrealistic expectations are easy to sell to a huge audience and they deceive many people. That is why most of the content that we see not only displays violence, it glorifies it. Look at the theme of revenge. How many times has it ever been deglorified? Even William Shakespeare's plays glorified it.

Has the whole world gone mad? Why do we need to continue seeing violence and hatred at the center of gameplay?

Mawy_Golomb

The reason being :-

Playing Ghandi in a computer game isn't fun besides gaming violence isnt' real life. I'm a pacifist in real life but I wouldn't want to extend that to the gaming world as it's fantasy.

For instance I play world in conflict a lot but would I extend my pacifist ways to withholding my fire what would be the point of that. It's a game.

[QUOTE="LordAndrew"][QUOTE="just_nonplussed"]

the TC isn't even responding or joining in the discussion. great. i hate posters who just start a topic and then dissapear. pointless.

mattykovax

Can we all stop posting here then and let this topic die?

[QUOTE="pygmahia5"]well violence in society usually ends in you getting arrested, or even worse. id rather get the thrill of doing it in a virtual world and not get penalized :)mattykovax

What if the Romans had Rome:Total Wars but for real, oh yeah.

[QUOTE="just_nonplussed"]

the TC isn't even responding or joining in the discussion. great. i hate posters who just start a topic and then dissapear. pointless.

LordAndrew

I used to be like most of the people here. I enjoyed violence and knew little to nothing about how the media influences society. But now, I have a far greater understanding of mass media. In addition, I am more religious. And as a result of having looked at a realistic depiction of the emotions that surround violence as well as how violence looks, I no longer feel joy in it. In fact, I am a nonviolent individual, having studied the ways of Gandhi's philosophy of Satyagraha and MLK's philosophy of Christian Satyagraha, which both teach people to be nonviolent.

As we look upon many of the popular things in mass media, we see that violence and sex, as well as hatred are often glorified. This is truly the case in the video games industry. Almost every game offers violence as the only option for moving throughout a storyline. Sure, cut scenes have dialogue and other things, but that is not interactivity. Why do games not make full use of interactivity, to the point where dialogue can be done in real time as well as many other non-violent things? Well, many people in mass media know that stereotypes and other unrealistic expectations are easy to sell to a huge audience and they deceive many people. That is why most of the content that we see not only displays violence, it glorifies it. Look at the theme of revenge. How many times has it ever been deglorified? Even William Shakespeare's plays glorified it.

Has the whole world gone mad? Why do we need to continue seeing violence and hatred at the center of gameplay?

Let's start with the obvious: A few questions you should ask yourself.

On your spiritual quest to reach some sort of personal enlightenment, did you happen to come across any teachings from your mentors regarding the inherent pitfalls of foisting your own personal beliefs onto other people? Have you pondered the inevitable backlash that your self-righteous musings might evoke in people as you admonish their choice of diversions? Do you reflect on your own choice of words and the way you talk down to people, as if your philosophy is the only viable and proper way to look at the issues you raise?

Firstly, your assessment of this medium is painted with broad strokes while employing crass generalizations, which renders your entire argument flaccid. There are actually a number of games that eschew violent themes so either your own exposure to the medium has been woefully limited or you are purposely omitting this fact to further your own arguments and agenda. If the latter is the reason, we call that propaganda.

Now, pushing aside the structure of your argument, let's delve into some of your assertions:

The glorification of violence - This is a term thrown around quite liberally and often inappropriately. You seem to equate a depiction of violence as automatically endorsing violence, which, when you really consider the proposition, is quite absurd. There have been plenty of films that depict violence as brutal, horrific, and even nauseating, refuting the notion that such works glorify violence. While games are a bit different because they are an interactive medium, plenty of titles have actually given the player choices in terms of how and when to apply violence, essentially letting the gamer deliberate whether a person lives or dies. At the end of GTAIV I literally held a gun on my enemy for several minutes before deciding to let him live. It was an incredibly unique experience.

As to the theme of revenge, as a literary scholar and a teacher, I'd love to know which Shakespearian play you feel glorifies the concept because in most cases, when the revenge thematic is applied, it is painted as a destructive act that destroys everyone in its path, including the one seeking revenge. In Hamlet, his quest for revenge kills just about everybody he loves and ultimately destroys him. In Romeo and Juliet, Romeo's rage at the loss of his friend causes him to slay Tybalt, which in turn begins a chain reaction that leads to his own destruction and the death of his beloved. If you want a more contemporary example of revenge in the media, look no further than Burton's Sweeny Todd, which is ****c Greek tragedy about a man whose lust for vengeance ultimately ruins him. I would actually venture to say that in most cases, revenge is treated as a negative and rarely as a positive.

I'm also fascinated that you mentioned sex in your diatribe, essentially equating it with violence and hatred in terms of being an objectionable presence in the media. I feel compelled to tell you that I find your ****fication of sex, which is one of the more remarkable and sublime experiences of the human condition, to be grotesque and offensive.

In your conclusion, you ask a rhetorical and ultimately ridiculous question: "Has the whole world gone mad?"

The truth is that our world in most respects is a much less violent place than it was even a few hundred years ago. Perhaps in your mind, killing a collection of pixels and polygons has some sort of viable, emotional repercussion but I'm simply too levelheaded, educated and full of common sense to subscribe to such a notion.

I can respect your personal decision not to indulge in media that offends your personal sensibilities just as I can respect your beliefs even as they diverge from my own. What I won't accept is being told that my way is wrong, which is ultimately what you have done with this post.

True enlightenment is being able to live your own life your own way without encroaching on the manner in which others live theirs. I applaud your spiritual growth but I urge you to expand your perceptions, otherwise you risk ignorance and becoming insular and rigid.