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Member since 2006 • 4347 Posts

http://thewiikly.zogdog.com/article.php?article=34&ed=3&p=1

This was posted in System Wars earlier today. It's a long one (took me about half an hour to read), but as I read through, things began to get scary. It explains everything Nintendo is doing with their odd approach with the Wii. Everything seems to fall into place almost too nicely, but it's all there.

Just read it. All of it.

18 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 2174 Posts

Yes. Very, very good read. Sony & Microtoss (sorry, had to throw it in) better watch out.

18 years ago

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#3 ithilgore2006

Member since 2006 • 10494 Posts

That was a brilliant read, and it all made pefect sense. Maybe I should post that in SW and see what happens :P .

18 years ago

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Member since 2004 • 29851 Posts

I really intend to read this, but I have not yet.

18 years ago

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Member since 2003 • 15023 Posts

:o
...

...I'm speechless. And this is ME I'm talking about...I. AM. SPEECHLESS.

...It's...wow. :o So...cool.

18 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 9608 Posts

:o Wow. The Nintendo execs sure are sly little devils.

18 years ago

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Member since 2006 • 1306 Posts

awesome read man, thanks for finding that

18 years ago

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Member since 2004 • 6648 Posts

Makes alot of sense...

18 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 7010 Posts

Wow, really good read. "It is as if the stars had aligned for a perfect opening for a market takeover." Very true, I wonder if Nintendo can pull it off, they're much more clever than most people thought.

18 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 11631 Posts

I've heard all this same stuff before. This is sugarcoated to seem different in a very peculiar way. I'm not impressed.

18 years ago

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#11 WeeWeeJumbo

Member since 2005 • 5380 Posts

I've heard all this same stuff before. This is sugarcoated to seem different in a very peculiar way. I'm not impressed.
jetpower3

Thanks for being the first to dissent with the rest, I would have been shy about it. I wouldn't say it was 'sugarcoated,' more like 'sexed-up.' This is no different from anything the Nintendo execs have been saying, and what anybody with eyes and ears and a sense of business strategy can see. There's all kinds of clever language to dress it up, you know, make it look like Nintendo's some super secret Rising Sun-esque corporate ninja or something, but the Wii strategy is plain as day, and it's been described in different terms by many different people. The issue is, what does it mean for us? Not the ultra-casuals, not the non-gamers, but the video game lovers, who aren't daunted by dual analog sticks and twenty buttons?

Satoru Iwata: "I have been saying this for some time, but customers are not interested in grand games with higher-quality graphics and sound and epic stories."

That is the crux of the problem. Yes, 'customers' in general aren't the ones who go all light-headed at the prospect of what NG2 will be like; they don't care about Nero's per-pixel lighting in DMC4; they don't know who Hironobu Sakaguchi is or why it matters that he's on board with Lost Odyssey. They like something light, fun, simple, that they can easily pick up and play with friends. Yes, these people outnumber us, the obsessive gamers. Frankly, I don't care what they're into; as far as I know, most people who play video games are playing the garbage that comes packaged with Windows, or HTML- and Flash-based web games; they're also playing cell phone games. That's got nothing to do with anything; it's got nothing to do with what we've been following for years at E3 and CES before it, it's got nothing to do with what was hot at Leipzig. It's big and hot for Nintendo, because Nintendo's primary goal is not to make great video games for video game lovers, it's to earn money. All this time, Nintendo was trying to appeal to the real gamers, and for a while, it succeeded; now that it's given up on us, I just don't understand why people who come to gaming forums are excited about Nintendo's new move. Wii is a concession of defeat. Nintendo is giving up on trying to keep us.

The article talks about Pepsi vs Coke... it seems like a splendid analogy, because Pepsi started offering people other things they could drink with the same level of satisfaction, or new consumable products. But the analogy breaks down when you really analyze it. Sure, Pepsi has all those other soft drinks that people gobble up happily, people who wouldn't have been interested in colas. Surely, that expanded Pepsi's revenues.

But people who are interested in colas aren't interested in snack cakes. Maybe if Nintendo kept offering the high-end, veteran-gamer-satisfying products it has in the past, AS PEPSI STILL SELLS PEPSI-COLA, the analogy might make sense; but if we want to extend it, we'd have to see a soft drinks market where Pepsi offers other products, not in addition to Pepsi-cola, but instead of Pepsi-cola. See the difference? Nintendo is no longer offering high-end, hardcore-satisfying product. It's now just offering the candies and snacks. If you were looking for cola, your only place to get it in this extended-analogy alternate reality is from Coca-Cola Bottling Co. How exciting a prospect would that be? Pepsi's yielding utterly in the cola war? I'm sure it works for Pepsi. For the cola lovers, especially the Pepsi cola lovers, it would be pretty sad.

18 years ago

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Member since 2003 • 15023 Posts

[QUOTE="jetpower3"]
I've heard all this same stuff before. This is sugarcoated to seem different in a very peculiar way. I'm not impressed.
WeeWeeJumbo

Thanks for being the first to dissent with the rest, I would have been shy about it. I wouldn't say it was 'sugarcoated,' more like 'sexed-up.' This is no different from anything the Nintendo execs have been saying, and what anybody with eyes and ears and a sense of business strategy can see. There's all kinds of clever language to dress it up, you know, make it look like Nintendo's some super secret Rising Sun-esque corporate ninja or something, but the Wii strategy is plain as day, and it's been described in different terms by many different people. The issue is, what does it mean for us? Not the ultra-casuals, not the non-gamers, but the video game lovers, who aren't daunted by dual analog sticks and twenty buttons?

Satoru Iwata: "I have been saying this for some time, but customers are not interested in grand games with higher-quality graphics and sound and epic stories."

That is the crux of the problem. Yes, 'customers' in general aren't the ones who go all light-headed at the prospect of what NG2 will be like; they don't care about Nero's per-pixel lighting in DMC4; they don't know who Hironobu Sakaguchi is or why it matters that he's on board with Lost Odyssey. They like something light, fun, simple, that they can easily pick up and play with friends. Yes, these people outnumber us, the obsessive gamers. Frankly, I don't care what they're into; as far as I know, most people who play video games are playing the garbage that comes packaged with Windows, or HTML- and Flash-based web games; they're also playing cell phone games. That's got nothing to do with anything; it's got nothing to do with what we've been following for years at E3 and CES before it, it's got nothing to do with what was hot at Leipzig. It's big and hot for Nintendo, because Nintendo's primary goal is not to make great video games for video game lovers, it's to earn money. All this time, Nintendo was trying to appeal to the real gamers, and for a while, it succeeded; now that it's given up on us, I just don't understand why people who come to gaming forums are excited about Nintendo's new move. Wii is a concession of defeat. Nintendo is giving up on trying to keep us.

The article talks about Pepsi vs Coke... it seems like a splendid analogy, because Pepsi started offering people other things they could drink with the same level of satisfaction, or new consumable products. But the analogy breaks down when you really analyze it. Sure, Pepsi has all those other soft drinks that people gobble up happily, people who wouldn't have been interested in colas. Surely, that expanded Pepsi's revenues.

But people who are interested in colas aren't interested in snack cakes. Maybe if Nintendo kept offering the high-end, veteran-gamer-satisfying products it has in the past, AS PEPSI STILL SELLS PEPSI-COLA, the analogy might make sense; but if we want to extend it, we'd have to see a soft drinks market where Pepsi offers other products, not in addition to Pepsi-cola, but instead of Pepsi-cola. See the difference? Nintendo is no longer offering high-end, hardcore-satisfying product. It's now just offering the candies and snacks. If you were looking for cola, your only place to get it in this extended-analogy alternate reality is from Coca-Cola Bottling Co. How exciting a prospect would that be? Pepsi's yielding utterly in the cola war? I'm sure it works for Pepsi. For the cola lovers, especially the Pepsi cola lovers, it would be pretty sad.

Well, if you REALLY think about it, you'd see that Nintendo is keeping the core gamers as well. Look at the franchises. The ones that have been with Ninty since the beginning. Also, they do leave open the option of using the Gamecube controller, which is for people who want to stick with the traditional set-up. You can't say they've completely given up on it, either. You have to look at Brawl, which the director had hinted people to "keep your GCN controllers". They're moving into a different, 'market', yes, BUT, they're also doing their best to keep the core gamer. Us.

If they've truly abandoned that style, then why keep it in the console?

18 years ago

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#13 WeeWeeJumbo

Member since 2005 • 5380 Posts

Well, if you REALLY think about it, you'd see that Nintendo is keeping the core gamers as well. Look at the franchises. The ones that have been with Ninty since the beginning. Also, they do leave open the option of using the Gamecube controller, which is for people who want to stick with the traditional set-up. You can't say they've completely given up on it, either. You have to look at Brawl, which the director had hinted people to "keep your GCN controllers". They're moving into a different, 'market', yes, BUT, they're also doing their best to keep the core gamer. Us.

If they've truly abandoned that style, then why keep it in the console?
FalconZero

The hardware does not satisfy the core gaming audience. Look around you. Core gamers love the graphics, the sound, the complicated, deep storytelling, the intense challenges. Read Iwata's comment, quoted in my post. Does it inspire confidence? I hope it doesn't; it certainly shouldn't.

Yes, there will be Zelda, and yes, there will be Mario. Did that attract the cores to the GC last time? Yes, there is a token gesture, a slim bone thrown to the faithful; there'll even be Wii versions of some next-gen titles. But there can be no doubt that Nintendo is no longer focused on us. They've said it again and again and this article says it too, but in sexier language. It's great for Nintendo's bottom line. It also implies that people like you and me need to look elsewhere, else prepare for a whole lot of wishing we had looked elsewhere.

18 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 2174 Posts

[QUOTE="FalconZero"]Well, if you REALLY think about it, you'd see that Nintendo is keeping the core gamers as well. Look at the franchises. The ones that have been with Ninty since the beginning. Also, they do leave open the option of using the Gamecube controller, which is for people who want to stick with the traditional set-up. You can't say they've completely given up on it, either. You have to look at Brawl, which the director had hinted people to "keep your GCN controllers". They're moving into a different, 'market', yes, BUT, they're also doing their best to keep the core gamer. Us.

If they've truly abandoned that style, then why keep it in the console?
WeeWeeJumbo

The hardware does not satisfy the core gaming audience. Look around you. Core gamers love the graphics, the sound, the complicated, deep storytelling, the intense challenges. Read Iwata's comment, quoted in my post. Does it inspire confidence? I hope it doesn't; it certainly shouldn't.

Yes, there will be Zelda, and yes, there will be Mario. Did that attract the cores to the GC last time? Yes, there is a token gesture, a slim bone thrown to the faithful; there'll even be Wii versions of some next-gen titles. But there can be no doubt that Nintendo is no longer focused on us. They've said it again and again and this article says it too, but in sexier language. It's great for Nintendo's bottom line. It also implies that people like you and me need to look elsewhere, else prepare for a whole lot of wishing we had looked elsewhere.

What else do you want? This is Nintendo. Those are their franchises, and you are guarenteed that they will appear on every Nintendo console. In this regard, Nintendo have not changed anything. It is not as if suddenly Nintendo stopped producing high-end FPS games. Nintendo have never appealed to the "hardcore" in that way. I think you're getting them confused with Sony or Microsoft if you're associating them with High-end anything, and I think you've missed the whole point of Nintendo - fun, not hardcoreism, but fun. I think you're looking for something that has never been a part of Nintendo, and if Wii doesnt satisfy you, please choose one of the other two consoles on offer.

18 years ago

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#15 WeeWeeJumbo

Member since 2005 • 5380 Posts

What else do you want? This is Nintendo. Those are their franchises, and you are guarenteed that they will appear on every Nintendo console. In this regard, Nintendo have not changed anything. It is not as if suddenly Nintendo stopped producing high-end FPS games. Nintendo have never appealed to the "hardcore" in that way. I think you're getting them confused with Sony or Microsoft if you're associating them with High-end anything, and I think you've missed the whole point of Nintendo - fun, not hardcoreism, but fun. I think you're looking for something that has never been a part of Nintendo, and if Wii doesnt satisfy you, please choose one of the other two consoles on offer.

KingWickee

Was about to toddle off to bed, then I saw this in my posting history. I was replying to the other guy when I mentioned Mario and Zelda; this isn't a complaint and there's no way to read it as a complaint. Don't confuse what I've said with something similar that you may have read somebody else saying. I was acknowledging to the other guy that in one way, Nintendo is keeping to its hardcore-focused franchises; he argues that in doing so it's not totally abandoning the gamers who put it where it is. Read not just my last comment but the comments before it, to put it in its proper context. You seem to be chastising me... why?

Anyway, if you grew up with Nintendo (I mean NES and SuperNES) you'll remember that Nintendo was definitely focused on graphics and presentation in the early days. Do you remember special effects chips added to the NES in its late life? There's a big reason why SMB 3 looked so good. Do you remember Mode 7? Do you remember how hard Nintendo hyped the SuperNES' technological superiority over the Genesis? Do you remember how much Nintendo made of anti-aliasing in the N64? I sure do. Most of these technological advances happened long before Sony and Microsoft appeared (as console manufacturers); and these two companies are not actually relevant to the conversation I was having with this other guy, except in the sense that their presence is what has driven Nintendo out of the hardcore market. And yes, even if it's hard to believe now, back in the old days, Mario and Zelda were pretty sophisticated, pretty daunting games; and Nintendo consoles definitely catered to the true gaming enthusiasts, not the moms and granddads they're trying to reach at this time.

Regardless, my point was that Nintendo used to cater to focused, dedicated gaming enthusiasts; Mario and Zelda notwithstanding, Nintendo is no longer doing this. I think it's interesting, though, that I had to argue with the other guy that Nintendo is no longer focusing on these people, and I seem to have to debate with you whether they ever did. You can't both be right--you are arguing opposing views--but I think I am right in both discussions. Nintendo definitely used to appeal to gaming devotees; and with Wii, Nintendo is abandoning this approach.

18 years ago

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