Your Top 5 Quarterbacks of all time

pardon if i get this order very crazy, but i wasnt around when these guys played so dont critisise(sorry 4 misspell)

1)joe montana

2)roger stauback

3)dan morino

4)bob griese

5)tom brady?

like i said i wasnt around when most of these guys played so im just pickin names outa my head.

1.Montana

2.Moon

3.Elway

4.farve

5.P.Manning/Brady/Marino

Joe Montana

Dan Marino

John Elway

Roger Starbuck

Brett Farv

thats my top 5, however thats not the order i would put them in.

1. Elway
2. Unitas
3. Moon
4. Montana
5. Marino
6. Tarkenton
7. Graham
8. Staubach
9. Aikman
10. Bradshaw

Favre is 11. Bring on the hate.

1. Elway
2. Unitas
3. Moon
4. Montana
5. Marino
6. Tarkenton
7. Graham
8. Staubach
9. Aikman
10. Bradshaw

Favre is 11. Bring on the hate.

Espurs117

One cannot rank Tarkenton ahead of either Staubach or Aikman... not to mention Bradshaw or Graham.

It's just wrong... Wrong I say... WRONG!!! :evil:

1. Farve by a long shot

Sorry for only one...i can't think of anything.

[QUOTE="Espurs117"]

1. Elway
2. Unitas
3. Moon
4. Montana
5. Marino
6. Tarkenton
7. Graham
8. Staubach
9. Aikman
10. Bradshaw

Favre is 11. Bring on the hate.

JackBurton

One cannot rank Tarkenton ahead of either Staubach or Aikman... not to mention Bradshaw or Graham.

It's just wrong... Wrong I say... WRONG!!! :evil:

^ Aikman & Staubach have 5 SB rings, Tarkenton + Moon +Marino have same number as you and I do, zero. Moon at least won 5 Grey Cups in CFL, but never took his team to a SB in NFL. Francis is pretty much the McNabb of his generation. He put up fat numbers cuz he played for 55 years, 'til he was 77.

If you're ranking Tarkenton above Staubach and Aikman, hang your head in shame and step down as leader of Cowboys Union immediately!!!

Not only is that historically inaccurate, it's absolute blasphemy!!! :evil:

Top-5 QB must have won a title or are disqualified from contention. It's the law. Look it up.

^ Aikman & Staubach have 5 SB rings, Tarkenton + Moon +Marino have same number as you and I do, zero. Moon at least won 5 Grey Cups in CFL, but never took his team to a SB in NFL. Francis is pretty much the McNabb of his generation. He put up fat numbers cuz he played for 55 years, 'til he was 77.

If you're ranking Tarkenton above Staubach and Aikman, hang your head in shame and step down as leader of Cowboys Union immediately!!!

Not only is that historically inaccurate, it's absolute blasphemy!!! :evil:

Top-5 QB must have won a title or are disqualified from contention. It's the law. Look it up.

JackBurton

1. Montana: Footwork, anticipation, accuracy, clutch. Best-ever. 4 Titles. Never threw an INT in SB

2. Unitas: Father of 2 min offense. The original gold standard of QB's. Impact cannot be disputed.

3. Elway: Marino calls daily to remind him to pause & give thanks for Terrell Davis' arrival. True story

4. Graham: 10-straight title games, 7 championships. 10x All-Pro, 3 MVPs. W/L record: 105-17-4

5. Starr: 5 Championships (in 7 yrs), including a 3-peat. Bling + 'vs teams of era' makes him top-5

6: Bradshaw: 4 Championships in 6 years, twice back-to-back. Never lost to Dallas reg/post season

7. Staubach: 4 SB appearances in 8yrs, 2 Championships. The Elway of his era. (Ask Dan Reeves)

8. Aikman: 3 Championships. (would've been 5 if not for a drunken J. Jones. Ask any GM of the era)

9. Brady: 3 Championships. Epic Fail knocks him out of 'the same sentence w/ Montana' debate, imo

10. Baugh: On NFL's 75th Anniv' team w/ Montana, Unitas and Graham. No top-10 is legit w/out him

11. Favre: Bling>Stats equation keeps him out of top-10. Lost to Aikman in every playoff meeting too

12. Young: Best all around athlete to play position. Only 1 ring. (two and he moves up on the list)

13. Marino: NFL's best pure-passer EVER. Never had a truly legit RB. Every Shula RB pick 'busted'

:edit:
The Top-4 are NFL's Mt Rushmore of QBs. Anyone who dares to disagree is a Nazi (or a terrorist) :twisted:

Which would any of u rather have: Favre's stats or the Championships won by any of the QBs rated above him on this list?? If your answer is 'stats', ease off the FFB..it's killed the brain cells of reason.

1. Joe Montana

2. John Elway

3. Peyton Manning/ Tom Brady (they're both the same in my mind)

4. Johnny Unitas

5. Roger Staubach

^ Aikman & Staubach have 5 SB rings, Tarkenton + Moon +Marino have same number as you and I do, zero. Moon at least won 5 Grey Cups in CFL, but never took his team to a SB in NFL. Francis is pretty much the McNabb of his generation. He put up fat numbers cuz he played for 55 years, 'til he was 77.

If you're ranking Tarkenton above Staubach and Aikman, hang your head in shame and step down as leader of Cowboys Union immediately!!!

Not only is that historically inaccurate, it's absolute blasphemy!!! :evil:

Top-5 QB must have won a title or are disqualified from contention. It's the law. Look it up.

JackBurton

and Moon by my account should be in everyone top 5 the guy spent his first 5 years in the CFL for god sakes and threw for 49,325 yards and 291 TD's when he finally rach NFL just think of the possiblitys if the NFL wasnt so judgemental over black QB he woulda rip the leauge in his rookie season

No no, Bradshaw should be ahead of Manning/Brady.

Bradshaw has the same amount of Superbowls as Brady and Manning combined, Bradshaw has never lost aa superbowl.

No no, Bradshaw should be ahead of Manning/Brady.

Bradshaw has the same amount of Superbowls as Brady and Manning combined, Bradshaw has never lost aa superbowl.

CWEBB04z

First of all, Peyton and Brady can still win many superbowls. Secondly, since when was it Brady fault of not winning the Superbowl? No QBs in the world can win when your O-line fails you all the time.

Basically, Superbowl wins is Team statistic, not a player statistic.

[QUOTE="Espurs117"]

1. Elway
2. Unitas
3. Moon
4. Montana
5. Marino
6. Tarkenton
7. Graham
8. Staubach
9. Aikman
10. Bradshaw

Favre is 11. Bring on the hate.

JackBurton

One cannot rank Tarkenton ahead of either Staubach or Aikman... not to mention Bradshaw or Graham.

It's just wrong... Wrong I say... WRONG!!! :evil:

I went by pure QB skills, not achievements. Which is why I have Moon so high on my list. Yes I would rather have a QB who wins rings, and my overall QB list would be completly different (Favrewould still not make the list) than this but as far as pure QB Skills, my list is this one. Oh and I had to put the boys qb's somewhat low because I didn't wanna be called a homer on this one. Yet it bites me in the ass, by you of all people. :lol:

1. Montana

2. Bradshaw

3. Brady

4. Elway

5. Favre

6. Staubach

7. Unitas

8. Graham

9. Marino

10. Manning

1.Favre

2.Montana

3.Elway

4.Marino

5.Archie Manning, ask me why, I dare you.

1.Favre

2.Montana

3.Elway

4.Marino

5.Archie Manning, ask me why, I dare you.

double_dos

[QUOTE="JackBurton"][QUOTE="Espurs117"]

1. Elway
2. Unitas
3. Moon
4. Montana
5. Marino
6. Tarkenton
7. Graham
8. Staubach
9. Aikman
10. Bradshaw

Favre is 11. Bring on the hate.

Espurs117

One cannot rank Tarkenton ahead of either Staubach or Aikman... not to mention Bradshaw or Graham.

It's just wrong... Wrong I say... WRONG!!! :evil:

I went by pure QB skills, not achievements. Which is why I have Moon so high on my list. Yes I would rather have a QB who wins rings, and my overall QB list would be completly different (Favrewould still not make the list) than this but as far as pure QB Skills, my list is this one. Oh and I had to put the boys qb's somewhat low because I didn't wanna be called a homer on this one. Yet it bites me in the ass, by you of all people. :lol:

Brett Favre and Sammy Baugh, everyone else is just a footnote in history.

:P

1. Joe montana

2. John Elway

3. Dan Marinio

4. Johnny Unitas

5. Roger Staubach

6. Brett Favre

7. Warren Moon

8. Terry Bradshaw

9. Troy Aikman

10. .... Eh... Frank Tarkenton....

I'm not including any present day kids...

[QUOTE="Espurs117"][QUOTE="JackBurton"][QUOTE="Espurs117"]

1. Elway
2. Unitas
3. Moon
4. Montana
5. Marino
6. Tarkenton
7. Graham
8. Staubach
9. Aikman
10. Bradshaw

Favre is 11. Bring on the hate.

kalabo10688

One cannot rank Tarkenton ahead of either Staubach or Aikman... not to mention Bradshaw or Graham.

It's just wrong... Wrong I say... WRONG!!! :evil:

I went by pure QB skills, not achievements. Which is why I have Moon so high on my list. Yes I would rather have a QB who wins rings, and my overall QB list would be completly different (Favrewould still not make the list) than this but as far as pure QB Skills, my list is this one. Oh and I had to put the boys qb's somewhat low because I didn't wanna be called a homer on this one. Yet it bites me in the ass, by you of all people. :lol:

He wasen't anywhere near Warren Moon. Cunningham is a poor man's Staubach.

He wasen't anywhere near Warren Moon. Cunningham is a poor man's Staubach.Espurs117

A very, very, very, very, very poor man's Staubach. I'm talking bout under the bridge downtown.

I'd feel much better about Tarkenton & Staubach in same sentence. If you give it some more thought, you might too. Tarkenton led his team to 3 SB losses ... what did Cunningham ever do except show up on highlight reels? He'd had an all-time Defense and couldnt get there! *stomach rumbles*
Maybe you should reconsider your analogy? Excuse me, while I go puke now. *runs to bathroom*

[QUOTE="Espurs117"] He wasen't anywhere near Warren Moon. Cunningham is a poor man's Staubach.JackBurton

A very, very, very, very, very poor man's Staubach. I'm talking bout under the bridge downtown.

I'd feel much better about Tarkenton & Staubach in same sentence. If you give it some more thought, you might too. Tarkenton led his team to 3 SB losses ... what did Cunningham ever do except show up on highlight reels? He'd had an all-time Defense and couldnt get there! *stomach rumbles*
Maybe you should reconsider your analogy? Excuse me, while I go puke now. *runs to bathroom*

I didn't say he was anywhere near as good as Staubach. Completly different careers and achievements for both. How many teams was Cunningham with? Alot. My point was purely based on the way they both played, and I compared Cunningham to the most scrambling QB on my list...which is Staubach imo. In no way did I mean to literally compare the two as far as their careers go.

[QUOTE="JackBurton"] [QUOTE="Espurs117"] He wasen't anywhere near Warren Moon. Cunningham is a poor man's Staubach.Espurs117

A very, very, very, very, very poor man's Staubach. I'm talking bout under the bridge downtown.

I'd feel much better about Tarkenton & Staubach in same sentence. If you give it some more thought, you might too. Tarkenton led his team to 3 SB losses ... what did Cunningham ever do except show up on highlight reels? He had an all-time Defense and couldnt get there! *stomach rumbles*
Maybe you should reconsider your analogy? Excuse me, while I go puke now. *runs to bathroom*

I didn't say he was anywhere near as good as Staubach. Completely different careers and achievements for both. How many teams was Cunningham with? Alot. My point was purely based on the way they both played, and I compared Cunningham to the most scrambling QB on my list...which is Staubach imo. In no way did I mean to literally compare the two as far as their careers go.

Yeah I could see the point you were trying to make about similar styIes of scrambing QBs. In reality, it's not totally wrong. I just have a prob with using Cunningham. And Staubach. In the same sentence.

When one sez or types Staubach. One is speaking of a winner. The Elway of his time.

Roger retired from the game kicking & screaming. Cowboy Nation mourned. Randall? He reached a point in his career where he was just picking up a check each week and was happy to do so until he quietly disappeared. Seriously. If not for a press release would we have even noticed? Is that too harsh?
THIS is the reason I dont like the idea of Cunningham. And Staubach. In the same sentence.

Pick another name. Use Tarkenton. Now were talking about 2 scrambling losers. At least Francis had heart; 'thought' he could win and did on occassion, but he was ownedin 3 SBs. (NFL Films don't lie. Beat downs!) Did Randall ever really believe he could win a big game? Is that why he didn't?

Before Eagles Nation flames me, remind me what Cunningham ever did for you. Viking Nation too.
Note to you guys: Don't hold your breath waiting for Randall to make the HOF. It's gonna be a while.

Randall b4 McNair based on what, rushing yards? McNair nearly won a SB. Randall had what 4-5 good years -- and to use a Jerry Jonesism-- 10 QB's could've led that Vikes team to an NFC Title loss.

1.Elway

2.Favre

3.Unitas

4.Montana

5.Marino

6.Tarkenton

7.Moon

8.Fouts

9.Bradshaw

10.Graham

Overhyped: Favre didn't deliver in second half of career

We interrupt the continued deification of Brett Favre -- a first-ballot Hall of Famer and the most durable player in NFL history -- with the following reality check.

Yes, Favre played long enough to throw the most touchdown passes and collect the most wins by an NFL quarterback. But let's examine the second half of No. 4's career. The truth is, Favre did little over the past decade to earn the gushing praise heaped upon him by our fawning brethren in the media.

After beating the San Francisco 49ers in the 1997 NFC Championship Game, Favre won just 3 of his last 10 playoff games. Eli Manning had more postseason wins in a 29-day span this past season than Favre had in his last decade with the Green Bay Packers.

In the first 81 years of the Green Bay franchise, the most hallowed in all of pro football, the Packers were 13-0 at home in the postseason. But since 2002, the Packers have gone 2-3 in playoff games at Lambeau Field, with Favre losing to three not-quite Hall of Fame quarterbacks: Michael Vick, Daunte Culpepper and Manning.

If Manning had a decade like that, he'd be run out of New York. If Philip Rivers kept chucking ridiculous overtime interceptions in the postseason, he would be branded a first-round bust. If Drew Brees came up short in three out of five home playoff games, he'd be mocked.

But no matter how many dumb passes he threw and how many playoff games he lost, Favre remains immune to criticism.

Yes, Favre won a Super Bowl -- 11 years ago!But as his career arc spiraled downward, the blind adulation only got worse.

Favre's passer rating in his last 12 postseason games was a pedestrian 77.8. In his last five wild-card games, he went 2-3 withmore interceptions (9) than touchdown passes (7).In his last three divisional playoff games, he went 1-2 with seven TDs and seven interceptions.That's a 3-5 record with 14 touchdown passes and 16 picks.

In two of his last four postseason appearances, Favre threw two of the most unthinkable playoff interceptions in NFL history, both in overtime -- to Brian Dawkins of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2003 and to Corey Webster of the New York Giants in January. In fact, Favre is the only quarterback in NFL history to throw overtime interceptions in two playoff games. In his last nine playoff games, Favre threw 18 interceptions.

Favre isn't even the greatest quarterback in the history of the Packers. It's not even close. Bart Starr won five NFL championships -- four more than Favre -- and retired as the NFL's most accurate passer.

Oh, you say Starr was surrounded by a Hall of Fame roster with a legendary coach. But Starr still is the NFL record holder with a104.8career playoff passer rating, nearly 20 points higher than Favre's. That wasn't Vince Lombardi or Ray Nitschke throwing those passes for Starr, whose career postseason passer rating, by the way, is 38points higher than Johnny Unitas'.

Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Starr's was 9-1 -- without the benefit of wild-card games. Favre threw 28 INTs in 22 playoff games. Starr threw 3 in 10. Think about that -- just 3 picks in 213 postseason attempts.

But Bart Starr gets the Ringo Starr treatment -- underappreciated and overlooked. Favre gets put on a pedestal. Yes, he had a Pro Bowl season in 2007 with the youngest roster in the NFL. But his final moment on Lambeau Field was a wildly errant pass that turned into the NFC title for the Giants.

Indeed, a decade after his last moments of glory, the football hype machine continues to paint Favre as a hallowed icon of Americana, a symbol of all that is right with sports, a Wild West gun-slinging good ol' boy. There's Brett on the farm! There's Brett with his family! There's Brett on the cover of Sports Illustrated! There's Brett throwing another overtime interception!

Favre was among the best in the game, once upon a time. Those days are long gone. Only the idolatry remains.

This is adapted from the best-selling book "The Paolantonio Report: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches and Moments in NFL History" by Sal Paolantonio with Reuben Frank, which is available in local bookstores and at Amazon.com

Overhyped: Favre didn't deliver in second half of career

We interrupt the continued deification of Brett Favre -- a first-ballot Hall of Famer and the most durable player in NFL history -- with the following reality check.

Yes, Favre played long enough to throw the most touchdown passes and collect the most wins by an NFL quarterback. But let's examine the second half of No. 4's career. The truth is, Favre did little over the past decade to earn the gushing praise heaped upon him by our fawning brethren in the media.

After beating the San Francisco 49ers in the 1997 NFC Championship Game, Favre won just 3 of his last 10 playoff games. Eli Manning had more postseason wins in a 29-day span this past season than Favre had in his last decade with the Green Bay Packers.

In the first 81 years of the Green Bay franchise, the most hallowed in all of pro football, the Packers were 13-0 at home in the postseason. But since 2002, the Packers have gone 2-3 in playoff games at Lambeau Field, with Favre losing to three not-quite Hall of Fame quarterbacks: Michael Vick, Daunte Culpepper and Manning.

If Manning had a decade like that, he'd be run out of New York. If Philip Rivers kept chucking ridiculous overtime interceptions in the postseason, he would be branded a first-round bust. If Drew Brees came up short in three out of five home playoff games, he'd be mocked.

But no matter how many dumb passes he threw and how many playoff games he lost, Favre remains immune to criticism.

Yes, Favre won a Super Bowl -- 11 years ago!But as his career arc spiraled downward, the blind adulation only got worse.

Favre's passer rating in his last 12 postseason games was a pedestrian 77.8. In his last five wild-card games, he went 2-3 withmore interceptions (9) than touchdown passes (7).In his last three divisional playoff games, he went 1-2 with seven TDs and seven interceptions.That's a 3-5 record with 14 touchdown passes and 16 picks.

In two of his last four postseason appearances, Favre threw two of the most unthinkable playoff interceptions in NFL history, both in overtime -- to Brian Dawkins of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2003 and to Corey Webster of the New York Giants in January. In fact, Favre is the only quarterback in NFL history to throw overtime interceptions in two playoff games. In his last nine playoff games, Favre threw 18 interceptions.

Favre isn't even the greatest quarterback in the history of the Packers. It's not even close. Bart Starr won five NFL championships -- four more than Favre -- and retired as the NFL's most accurate passer.

Oh, you say Starr was surrounded by a Hall of Fame roster with a legendary coach. But Starr still is the NFL record holder with a104.8career playoff passer rating, nearly 20 points higher than Favre's. That wasn't Vince Lombardi or Ray Nitschke throwing those passes for Starr, whose career postseason passer rating, by the way, is 38points higher than Johnny Unitas'.

Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Starr's was 9-1 -- without the benefit of wild-card games. Favre threw 28 INTs in 22 playoff games. Starr threw 3 in 10. Think about that -- just 3 picks in 213 postseason attempts.

But Bart Starr gets the Ringo Starr treatment -- underappreciated and overlooked. Favre gets put on a pedestal. Yes, he had a Pro Bowl season in 2007 with the youngest roster in the NFL. But his final moment on Lambeau Field was a wildly errant pass that turned into the NFC title for the Giants.

Indeed, a decade after his last moments of glory, the football hype machine continues to paint Favre as a hallowed icon of Americana, a symbol of all that is right with sports, a Wild West gun-slinging good ol' boy. There's Brett on the farm! There's Brett with his family! There's Brett on the cover of Sports Illustrated! There's Brett throwing another overtime interception!

Favre was among the best in the game, once upon a time. Those days are long gone. Only the idolatry remains.

This is adapted from the best-selling book "The Paolantonio Report: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches and Moments in NFL History" by Sal Paolantonio with Reuben Frank, which is available in local bookstores and at Amazon.com

JackBurton

That was a great article. My dad is a big Favre fan and he just got his eyes opened because of you:P

Overhyped: Favre didn't deliver in second half of career

We interrupt the continued deification of Brett Favre -- a first-ballot Hall of Famer and the most durable player in NFL history -- with the following reality check.

Yes, Favre played long enough to throw the most touchdown passes and collect the most wins by an NFL quarterback. But let's examine the second half of No. 4's career. The truth is, Favre did little over the past decade to earn the gushing praise heaped upon him by our fawning brethren in the media.

After beating the San Francisco 49ers in the 1997 NFC Championship Game, Favre won just 3 of his last 10 playoff games. Eli Manning had more postseason wins in a 29-day span this past season than Favre had in his last decade with the Green Bay Packers.

In the first 81 years of the Green Bay franchise, the most hallowed in all of pro football, the Packers were 13-0 at home in the postseason. But since 2002, the Packers have gone 2-3 in playoff games at Lambeau Field, with Favre losing to three not-quite Hall of Fame quarterbacks: Michael Vick, Daunte Culpepper and Manning.

If Manning had a decade like that, he'd be run out of New York. If Philip Rivers kept chucking ridiculous overtime interceptions in the postseason, he would be branded a first-round bust. If Drew Brees came up short in three out of five home playoff games, he'd be mocked.

But no matter how many dumb passes he threw and how many playoff games he lost, Favre remains immune to criticism.

Yes, Favre won a Super Bowl -- 11 years ago!But as his career arc spiraled downward, the blind adulation only got worse.

Favre's passer rating in his last 12 postseason games was a pedestrian 77.8. In his last five wild-card games, he went 2-3 withmore interceptions (9) than touchdown passes (7).In his last three divisional playoff games, he went 1-2 with seven TDs and seven interceptions.That's a 3-5 record with 14 touchdown passes and 16 picks.

In two of his last four postseason appearances, Favre threw two of the most unthinkable playoff interceptions in NFL history, both in overtime -- to Brian Dawkins of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2003 and to Corey Webster of the New York Giants in January. In fact, Favre is the only quarterback in NFL history to throw overtime interceptions in two playoff games. In his last nine playoff games, Favre threw 18 interceptions.

Favre isn't even the greatest quarterback in the history of the Packers. It's not even close. Bart Starr won five NFL championships -- four more than Favre -- and retired as the NFL's most accurate passer.

Oh, you say Starr was surrounded by a Hall of Fame roster with a legendary coach. But Starr still is the NFL record holder with a104.8career playoff passer rating, nearly 20 points higher than Favre's. That wasn't Vince Lombardi or Ray Nitschke throwing those passes for Starr, whose career postseason passer rating, by the way, is 38points higher than Johnny Unitas'.

Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Starr's was 9-1 -- without the benefit of wild-card games. Favre threw 28 INTs in 22 playoff games. Starr threw 3 in 10. Think about that -- just 3 picks in 213 postseason attempts.

But Bart Starr gets the Ringo Starr treatment -- underappreciated and overlooked. Favre gets put on a pedestal. Yes, he had a Pro Bowl season in 2007 with the youngest roster in the NFL. But his final moment on Lambeau Field was a wildly errant pass that turned into the NFC title for the Giants.

Indeed, a decade after his last moments of glory, the football hype machine continues to paint Favre as a hallowed icon of Americana, a symbol of all that is right with sports, a Wild West gun-slinging good ol' boy. There's Brett on the farm! There's Brett with his family! There's Brett on the cover of Sports Illustrated! There's Brett throwing another overtime interception!

Favre was among the best in the game, once upon a time. Those days are long gone. Only the idolatry remains.

This is adapted from the best-selling book "The Paolantonio Report: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches and Moments in NFL History" by Sal Paolantonio with Reuben Frank, which is available in local bookstores and at Amazon.com

JackBurton

Bart Starr underappreciated and overlooked? That has to be a joke! Starr is one of the most revered QBs of all time, not just among Packer history and fans, but among the entire league! He ranks up there with your Otto Grahams, Roger Staubachs, Joe Montanas, etc. And look, Burton, keep posting all the dirt you want on Favre. His stats, records, awards... everything he has been able to do... says it all.

Definitely. In fact, they're non-comparable for numerous reasons.spfx30

agreed it is very hard to compare qb's from different eras the game has changed so much over the years

[QUOTE="JackBurton"]

Overhyped: Favre didn't deliver in second half of career

We interrupt the continued deification of Brett Favre -- a first-ballot Hall of Famer and the most durable player in NFL history -- with the following reality check.

Yes, Favre played long enough to throw the most touchdown passes and collect the most wins by an NFL quarterback. But let's examine the second half of No. 4's career. The truth is, Favre did little over the past decade to earn the gushing praise heaped upon him by our fawning brethren in the media.

After beating the San Francisco 49ers in the 1997 NFC Championship Game, Favre won just 3 of his last 10 playoff games. Eli Manning had more postseason wins in a 29-day span this past season than Favre had in his last decade with the Green Bay Packers.

In the first 81 years of the Green Bay franchise, the most hallowed in all of pro football, the Packers were 13-0 at home in the postseason. But since 2002, the Packers have gone 2-3 in playoff games at Lambeau Field, with Favre losing to three not-quite Hall of Fame quarterbacks: Michael Vick, Daunte Culpepper and Manning.

If Manning had a decade like that, he'd be run out of New York. If Philip Rivers kept chucking ridiculous overtime interceptions in the postseason, he would be branded a first-round bust. If Drew Brees came up short in three out of five home playoff games, he'd be mocked.

But no matter how many dumb passes he threw and how many playoff games he lost, Favre remains immune to criticism.

Yes, Favre won a Super Bowl -- 11 years ago!But as his career arc spiraled downward, the blind adulation only got worse.

Favre's passer rating in his last 12 postseason games was a pedestrian 77.8. In his last five wild-card games, he went 2-3 withmore interceptions (9) than touchdown passes (7).In his last three divisional playoff games, he went 1-2 with seven TDs and seven interceptions.That's a 3-5 record with 14 touchdown passes and 16 picks.

In two of his last four postseason appearances, Favre threw two of the most unthinkable playoff interceptions in NFL history, both in overtime -- to Brian Dawkins of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2003 and to Corey Webster of the New York Giants in January. In fact, Favre is the only quarterback in NFL history to throw overtime interceptions in two playoff games. In his last nine playoff games, Favre threw 18 interceptions.

Favre isn't even the greatest quarterback in the history of the Packers. It's not even close. Bart Starr won five NFL championships -- four more than Favre -- and retired as the NFL's most accurate passer.

Oh, you say Starr was surrounded by a Hall of Fame roster with a legendary coach. But Starr still is the NFL record holder with a104.8career playoff passer rating, nearly 20 points higher than Favre's. That wasn't Vince Lombardi or Ray Nitschke throwing those passes for Starr, whose career postseason passer rating, by the way, is 38points higher than Johnny Unitas'.

Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Starr's was 9-1 -- without the benefit of wild-card games. Favre threw 28 INTs in 22 playoff games. Starr threw 3 in 10. Think about that -- just 3 picks in 213 postseason attempts.

But Bart Starr gets the Ringo Starr treatment -- underappreciated and overlooked. Favre gets put on a pedestal. Yes, he had a Pro Bowl season in 2007 with the youngest roster in the NFL. But his final moment on Lambeau Field was a wildly errant pass that turned into the NFC title for the Giants.

Indeed, a decade after his last moments of glory, the football hype machine continues to paint Favre as a hallowed icon of Americana, a symbol of all that is right with sports, a Wild West gun-slinging good ol' boy. There's Brett on the farm! There's Brett with his family! There's Brett on the cover of Sports Illustrated! There's Brett throwing another overtime interception!

Favre was among the best in the game, once upon a time. Those days are long gone. Only the idolatry remains.

This is adapted from the best-selling book "The Paolantonio Report: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players, Teams, Coaches and Moments in NFL History" by Sal Paolantonio with Reuben Frank, which is available in local bookstores and at Amazon.com

spfx30

Bart Starr underappreciated and overlooked? That has to be a joke! Starr is one of the most revered QBs of all time, not just among Packer history and fans, but among the entire league! He ranks up there with your Otto Grahams, Roger Staubachs, Joe Montanas, etc. And look, Burton, keep posting all the dirt you want on Favre. His stats, records, awards... everything he has been able to do... says it all.

the man one more ring then anyone else yet he treated as if he a TOP 20 qb ,maybe it's because unitas was the face of the QB during that era over or maybe the fact that people always call him a system qb ..the fact is the man won the most rings as QB

Yeah, Starr was definitely not a system QB.

Dont know man because when all this so call experts go on babbling top 5 qb they never bring him upkalabo10688

Heh, so-called "experts". You got that right.

And look, Burton, keep posting all the dirt you want on Favre. His stats, records, awards... everything he has been able to do... says it all. spfx30

This isn't a personal vendetta for me at all, SPFX30. The fact is, and i'm not alone on this, that he is not a top-5 QB no matter which set of QBs from any era one wishes to compare him against. Dude, he gets love from everyone and nobody holds him accountable for his game-changing mistakes! WTF?!

Starr played under a different sets of rules which made it HARDER for a QB to put up the numbers and Titles he accomplished. Only a decade before Starr, the legendary Bobby Layne won 3 Titles for Detroit, finished with a 64 career passer rating, and was a first ballot HOF'er. Explain it to me.

Let me ask once more: Stats or Titles, which is most impressive to you? Do you say 'stats' because Philly hasn't won a title since 1960, so for you guys 1 is a B I G number? (sorry bout that)

Favre's a HOF player and person, okay? But that does not in and of itself make him a top-5 QB. Sorry.

Dont know man because when all this so call experts go on babbling top 5 qb they never bring him up

kalabo10688

That's the point of the article, and the one I am making too: Starr won 5 titles, retired as all-time playoff and career passer rating leader, yet is overlooked by most and overshadowed by Favre. Madness!

both are great qbs but starr was alot better than favre was

I know those are facts, Burton. However, you are bringing up those facts to belittle Favre beyond the level of criticism that he deserves/should receive. And what is the big deal with only winning one title in 17 years when you set all sorts of records? What is the big deal with winning only one SB ring when an entire state loves you for going above and beyond for a franchise?

Burton, I know this isn't some sort of personal vendetta for you. But it isn't right that you are saying, "Wow, he has the most INTs, didn't own in the playoffs like Brady, and only won one SB, therefore he sucks". And I thought we already established he isn't a top-five QB. However, as I said before, he is a top-ten.

As for me, both titles and stats are impressive. However, as I just asked, why does not having all sorts of titles matter when you have all sorts of records? Similarly, why does not having all sorts of records matter when you have all sorts of titles? Look, mock Philly teams if you like, but I'm confused as to why you must. We're discussing Favre here. Must you really dip so low as to mock me for my choice in which city's teams I cheer for? When have I mocked you?

As for your last sentence, yes, Favre definitely deserves the HOF. However, I do not know why the nation tries to make Favre out to be a god. He isn't, and I don't agree with it. You don't agree with it either, so why do you question me for it? I'm not blind; Favre isn't the best, and I've already acknowledged that.

I have NEVER said Favre 'sucks'. What I've said is that nobody, and I mean NOBODY, wants to hold Favre accountable for his MANY game-changing mistakes seemingly because he's one of 'us'. Just a guy. With a huge heart. Played in pain or took a needle to get on the field. From a small town, married his HS sweetheart, lives on a 'farm', blah blah. Yeah those are all great qualities. But is that enough to warrant a free pass for all those bone-headed chuck-it blunders? Evidently so, for most people. Not me.

Lets look at 2 sets of numbers/players:
If Aikman doesn't win 3 titles he's not in the HOF. If Layne doesn't win 3 titles he's not in HOF. Neither of these guys had the stats, but they had titles, so that put them in the HOF. Layne was' toughest SOB to ever play QB' according to Sports Illustrated, among others. B.L. is a legend at Detroit, UTexas & Highland Park HS. He was Staubach and Elway before Staubach and Elway (as far as comeback wins). "Never lost a game, just ran out of time". That's why he went in on first ballot.
Titles > stats. Always have been, always will be. I didn't make that rule, but I live and judge by it.

They play to win the games, they play the season to win a championship. Everything else (like fat stats) is just icing on the cake. Without a Title, it's a **** cake though. :P Francis LOSER Tarkenton!

I've watched Favre for 17 years, sitting in bewilderment wondering WHY he's above criticism. Wondering if I'd ever want him on "my" team. (same w/ Barry Sanders) For all 17 of those years my answer was 'NO!'. Rocket balls, seeing ghosts, etc. Too many mistakes that led to too many losses. Guess what? Now I have a Favre-esque QB on 'my' team, and I'm not sure how i feel about it just yet. Romo better deliver multiple titles or he's gonna make my hair grey (or force me to pull it out) years before it's time.

Let's not forget the head-to-head matchups: Aikman beat Favre in Playoffs. Montana beat Marino in SB. Elway beat Favre in SB. Bradshaw beat Staubach in 2 SB's + all regular season meetings. The only series of post-season matchups where Favre was victorious was vs Steve Young. These W/L's (+ Titles) should count when it comes to each player's place in the respective pecking order, shouldn't they??

In NFL lore, QB titles are held in higher regard than stats. TEAM's accomplishments, not the indivdual's.

Marino would trade-in all of his stats for a ring. Ask him. He's one of my fave QBs of all-time, (J.Kelly too)and they don't make my top 10 list cuz neither has rings. Do i think Marino is top 10? Hell yes i do! But I'm never again going to try to make that argument for him. I'm sick to death of losing it.

SPFX30: FYI; just so you know, I mentioned Philly's 1 title since 1960 not to mock you, but to make a point. More than half of the teams in this league haven't won multiple Titles. In my mind, thats why so many think 1 title is a big deal and would be glad to have just the one.

I in no way meant to single you out here, nor do i have any beef with you... I only used your post to reply to bc u asked me a question; made a statement calling me by name -- that's all. :)
You may consider this an open post to anyone here who believes Favre is a top-5 QB. Starr>Favre

I'd like anyone to try to explain to me why we do not hold Favre accountable for his multitude of mistakes as we do with EVERY other QB in all of our lifetimes. Please, someone, anyone. I'm waiting..

Well, I'm glad to read that no sour feelings have developed over this conversation. :) I want to let you know that I didn't mean that you directly stated that Favre sucks, that instead it seemed to me that was your point. I must disagree with your statement that nobody wishes to hold Favre accountable for his mistakes. I may come across as though I do not, but really, I do. I must agree that, were he to have committed fewer mistakes, perhaps The Pack would have more titles. Again, maybe not, but maybe so. We'll never know.

Anyway, I understand your point regarding titles being more important than stats. I know they are. I meant that, for me, both are equally important. Because, as I mentioned, one can brag either way because either one has all the stats, or one has all the titles (although, in some cases, one may have neither, haha). Thanks for clearing it up about what you posted about Philly's teams. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

On a final note, I must say I was humored by your statement about Romo. :P

Eh, I enjoy debates... except when they create sour feelings between people. :( But yeah, debating is a nice, relaxing way to pass time. :) Think of them as... long-winded conversations. :Dspfx30

hahhaha if you say so

wow you guys are writing really long posts lol, its a very heated debate KFrandsen2

It's been a trend of the late new members, which I have noticed. From, most prominently, Burton, to even kalabo at times, it's just... the latest fad, I guess. Instead of keeping it short and straight to the point.

It's been a trend of the late new members, which I have noticed. From, most prominently, Burton, to even kalabo at times, it's just... the latest fad, I guess. Instead of keeping it short and straight to the point. detroitpistons0

I've spent too long in the Audio-Video Science Forum. Questions are long as well as the (detailed) answers...specs, instructions, opinions, etc. Plus, I'm old school, from the pre-text era. Been online since birth of the internet... I'm working on it, but will likely fail. Sorry guys. :(

[QUOTE="KFrandsen2"]wow you guys are writing really long posts lol, its a very heated debate detroitpistons0

It's been a trend of the late new members, which I have noticed. From, most prominently, Burton, to even kalabo at times, it's just... the latest fad, I guess. Instead of keeping it short and straight to the point.

I will admit I used to over do it on the long post..but you gotta admit as a manyour not going take a battle lying down

your going protest to the death....it just happen to be i found shorter way around...lol

[QUOTE="detroitpistons0"] It's been a trend of the late new members, which I have noticed. From, most prominently, Burton, to even kalabo at times, it's just... the latest fad, I guess. Instead of keeping it short and straight to the point. JackBurton

I've spent too long in the Audio-Video Science Forum. Questions are long as well as the (detailed) answers...specs, instructions, opinions, etc. Plus, I'm old school, from the pre-text era. Been online since birth of the internet... I'm working on it, but will likely fail. Sorry guys. :(

dont worry about it i mean your posts are packed with info when you make them that long, so that is good

[QUOTE="double_dos"]

1.Favre

2.Montana

3.Elway

4.Marino

5.Archie Manning, ask me why, I dare you.

Bobbles

i agree that bart starr is the best qb in packers history but that shouldn't take anything away from favre's careerKFrandsen2