3rd party hardcore games dont get enough support on Wii.

How can Wii's 3rd party support get better if some of the hardcore games on Wii (Red Steel 2, madworld, house of the dead overkill) don't get enough support to motivate devs to release more hardcore games on Wii? If this continues, we can't expect 3rd party support to get any better on the Wii. Hopefully this problem will be fixed by Nintendo's next console.

Well you see, one thing that kept all the core3rd party titles from doing well was that first, they were 3rd party games (which is famous for bringing us most of the Wii's casual games), second, its the Wii and it is a part of Nintendo. 3rd party games never really did do well on Nintendo's gaming systems, though Nintendo is going to be fixing that with the 3DS

How can Wii's 3rd party support get better if some of the hardcore games on Wii (Red Steel 2, madworld, house of the dead overkill) don't get enough support to motivate devs to release more hardcore games on Wii? If this continues, we can't expect 3rd party support to get any better on the Wii. Hopefully this problem will be fixed by Nintendo's next console.

Wii4Fun

Publishers did not commit to it. Their biggest attempts still had features with limited appeal. We have been over this millions of times and pretty much it looks like out of the mold games from third parties are few and far between. Epic Mickey and DQ Wii are true attempts at big third party games.

[QUOTE="Wii4Fun"]

How can Wii's 3rd party support get better if some of the hardcore games on Wii (Red Steel 2, madworld, house of the dead overkill) don't get enough support to motivate devs to release more hardcore games on Wii? If this continues, we can't expect 3rd party support to get any better on the Wii. Hopefully this problem will be fixed by Nintendo's next console.

Travixyz

Ya that's one game out of a whole bunch which you could say sold so bad that the developers actually lost money than made.

[QUOTE="Travixyz"][QUOTE="Wii4Fun"]

How can Wii's 3rd party support get better if some of the hardcore games on Wii (Red Steel 2, madworld, house of the dead overkill) don't get enough support to motivate devs to release more hardcore games on Wii? If this continues, we can't expect 3rd party support to get any better on the Wii. Hopefully this problem will be fixed by Nintendo's next console.

zaku101

Ya that's one game out of a whole bunch which you could say sold so bad that the developers actually lost money than made.

If 3rd parties make really good games people will buy them. Buying sort of good games won't encourage them to make really good games, it will just reward them for not working that hard, and we'll just get more sort of good games.

Publishers did not commit to it. Their biggest attempts still had features with limited appeal. We have been over this millions of times and pretty much it looks like out of the mold games from third parties are few and far between. Epic Mickey and DQ Wii are true attempts at big third party games.

thedude-

I would say that this is about accurate. I just don't feel that the titles are usually as good as they could be. Also, third parties tend to confuse a good "core" gamers title, with a M rated gruesome title. I like those too, but just because there is blood all over doesn't mean I am going to buy it. It would be nice to see some high budget games come out of third parties, such as The Last Story, which SEEMS amazing from what I have seen. If it is not released in NA....:evil:

This has been a problem with Nintendo systems since the N64 (you can even argue the SNES if you desire).

I think it's a combination of a few things. Marketing, Target Market, Quality.....etc.

The reason certain games sell (most of the time) imo is due (majorly) to the fact of what kind of Advertising the companies use.

1. If you don't advertise, or advertise on channels that people don't watch... it won't sell. Period....

2. If you do advertise, it has to be something that gets people excited at least some what.

3. If you spend an outrageous amount of time and effort on selling garbage, a sequel won't sell.

Gaming has changed whether people understand it or not. They've become closer to movies and they absolutely need to be marketed similar in fashion. Just like my other thread said..... colors used, text used, pictures used, etc. all need to lure the customer in and make them want the product. We as gamers don't usually pay attention to all that, but even so... we've all fallen to the devil that is marketing (or at least became hyped about it).

You can't go fishing without the proper bait. Nuff' said

This is a many fold problem.

1: There are a lot of wii owners who refuse to play anything third party. If it doesn't say nintendo on the cover, they're not interested.

2: There are a lot of wii owners who simply never know of a lot of great third party wii games. Most casuals (as in casual gamers, not non-gamers who play wiifit) only know about games if its advertised on TV or through word-of-mouth. They are much more likely to pick up something like Dante's Inferno than Madworld.

3: Publishers are a big problem. Most publishers feel wii owners don't want hardcore games and they don't care about quality. There are plenty of developers who would love to work on a high-profile wii game, but not publisher will let them.

The problem in #3 stems from wii's launch line-up. Third parties were happy to make traditional games for wii early in its life, but few actually believed the wii would do well after the failure that was the GC. Few publishers even had games in development during the wii's launch. So a lot of devs either rushed to get something done, or put a b or c team on development because they wanted to "test" the waters before committing any real money. What we got was a lot of bad games, forever ruining the reputation of all third party wii games.

Maybe next gen developers won't sit on their hands and instead jump on the opportunity like they're doing with the 3DS. But, I'm guessing not.

This has been a problem with Nintendo systems since the N64 (you can even argue the SNES if you desire).

I think it's a combination of a few things. Marketing, Target Market, Quality.....etc.

The reason certain games sell (most of the time) imo is due (majorly) to the fact of what kind of Advertising the companies use.

1. If you don't advertise, or advertise on channels that people don't watch... it won't sell. Period....

2. If you do advertise, it has to be something that gets people excited at least some what.

3. If you spend an outrageous amount of time and effort on selling garbage, a sequel won't sell.

Gaming has changed whether people understand it or not. They've become closer to movies and they absolutely need to be marketed similar in fashion. Just like my other thread said..... colors used, text used, pictures used, etc. all need to lure the customer in and make them want the product. We as gamers don't usually pay attention to all that, but even so... we've all fallen to the devil that is marketing (or at least became hyped about it).

You can't go fishing without the proper bait. Nuff' said

redlightstudios

That's why I feel games should have previews on the disk. Just a few vids of up coming games when you boot up the disk for the first time (skipable of course).

[QUOTE="redlightstudios"]

This has been a problem with Nintendo systems since the N64 (you can even argue the SNES if you desire).

I think it's a combination of a few things. Marketing, Target Market, Quality.....etc.

The reason certain games sell (most of the time) imo is due (majorly) to the fact of what kind of Advertising the companies use.

1. If you don't advertise, or advertise on channels that people don't watch... it won't sell. Period....

2. If you do advertise, it has to be something that gets people excited at least some what.

3. If you spend an outrageous amount of time and effort on selling garbage, a sequel won't sell.

Gaming has changed whether people understand it or not. They've become closer to movies and they absolutely need to be marketed similar in fashion. Just like my other thread said..... colors used, text used, pictures used, etc. all need to lure the customer in and make them want the product. We as gamers don't usually pay attention to all that, but even so... we've all fallen to the devil that is marketing (or at least became hyped about it).

You can't go fishing without the proper bait. Nuff' said

goblaa

That's why I feel games should have previews on the disk. Just a few vids of up coming games when you boot up the disk for the first time (skipable of course).

Or Nintendo should have a better interface next time around and show off top-quality titles via downloadable demos.... :P

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="redlightstudios"]

This has been a problem with Nintendo systems since the N64 (you can even argue the SNES if you desire).

I think it's a combination of a few things. Marketing, Target Market, Quality.....etc.

The reason certain games sell (most of the time) imo is due (majorly) to the fact of what kind of Advertising the companies use.

1. If you don't advertise, or advertise on channels that people don't watch... it won't sell. Period....

2. If you do advertise, it has to be something that gets people excited at least some what.

3. If you spend an outrageous amount of time and effort on selling garbage, a sequel won't sell.

Gaming has changed whether people understand it or not. They've become closer to movies and they absolutely need to be marketed similar in fashion. Just like my other thread said..... colors used, text used, pictures used, etc. all need to lure the customer in and make them want the product. We as gamers don't usually pay attention to all that, but even so... we've all fallen to the devil that is marketing (or at least became hyped about it).

You can't go fishing without the proper bait. Nuff' said

redlightstudios

That's why I feel games should have previews on the disk. Just a few vids of up coming games when you boot up the disk for the first time (skipable of course).

Or Nintendo should have a better interface next time around and show off top-quality titles via downloadable demos.... :P

That's assuming more wii owners start to hook up their wii to the net. The non-gamer crowd just isn't online. Multiple times I've heard people at gamestop say, "I can hook my wii up to the internet?!" I once saw someone come into the store to buy World of Goo.

If you're advertising a core game, online trailers and demo's are great. If you're advertising a casual game though, you can't use the net...so put the vids on the disk, just like previews for a movie.

Everyone hates the Wii.

If 3rd parties make really good games people will buy them. Buying sort of good games won't encourage them to make really good games, it will just reward them for not working that hard, and we'll just get more sort of good games.

aransom

I don't think this is an entirely fair/accurate claim, since you seem to basically be saying that third-party games designed with "hardcore" gamers in mind are not doing well on the Wii because the developers behind them are "not working that hard", and therefore they deserve crappy sales even when there are several other lousy first-party or third-party games with a major license that do well sales-wise, even though they are far from great games, and certainly the developers behind them weren't "working that hard" yet they still did better than many great third-party games that slip under-the-radar for the most part. Sales do not always correlate to quality, and quality doesn't always equal sales; this is true for any kind of goods or media, but especially for games, so this is an unfair equation to be using for third-party games, especially the select few that seem to be designed for the "hardcore" gamer audience instead of the Wii Fit crowd. But yes, I agree with the basic premise of this thread that third-party non-casual/franchise/movie or tv tie-in type games don't get nearly enough support on the Wii console.

How can Wii's 3rd party support get better if some of the hardcore games on Wii (Red Steel 2, madworld, house of the dead overkill) don't get enough support to motivate devs to release more hardcore games on Wii? If this continues, we can't expect 3rd party support to get any better on the Wii. Hopefully this problem will be fixed by Nintendo's next console.

Wii4Fun

I own 2 of those games. Both are decent games but not worth full price. Madworld is a niche title and Redsteel 2 is fun but i dont think i will play it again after i've finished it but Ubisoft did mention a sequel might be released which i hope has multi-player.

im not sure what 3rd party is considered to be but if these count: dead space extraction.

& monster hunter tri

A lot of 3rd party Wii games are half-assed crap. Maybe they would get more support if they made better games? Red Steel 2 would probably be a big seller with multi-player + online, Madworld would probably sell better if it wasn't extremely repetitive, HOTD:O would probably sell better if... it was a different game. Railshooters wouldn't sell well on any console..

Let's just hope 3rd party developers don't suck as much for the next Nintendo console. Better graphics would probably help A LOT in getting other devs interested in making something else than half-assed games.

3rd party hardcore games on the Wii usually flop because of either no advertising, the game simply sucks yet the devs try and pass of the blame by saying it's the fault of the Wii audience and if the game was on the HD twins it would magically become good or the game is actually good has a decent amount of hype then the dev/producer becomes greedy aka EA and NBA Jam (They have literally killed almost all the hype the Wii version had with their constant flip flopping and backstabbing). The only game that has not fallen into this situation is MH Tri a shining beacon of how to do a 3rd Party game properly on the Wii (Good freaking job Capcom)

Everyone hates the Wii.

Sonicplys

Companies don't advertise their games and people cannot play demos of games either. The Wii does have a nice third party. Monster Hunter 3, Zack and Wiki, Sin and Punishment, Call of Duty, Little Kings Story, Prince of Persia, Red Steel 2, Trauma Center, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, No More Heroes, etc. People need have multiplayer in shooters. Fighters are hit and miss, not everyone is into RTS games, and so on. 3rd parties just don't hype people up for their games or put much focus on thier wii projects.

Rated M games =/= "hardcore" games

Rated M games =/= "hardcore" games

JuarN18

These "hardcore because they are rated m games" isthe reason why Cali is trying to ban all games that could be considered violent.

Ok, what about Lego Star Wars: Complete Saga. It sold 3.64 Million on the Wii while the XBOX 360 sold 1.64 Million and the PS3 sold 1.29 Million. Lego Harry Potter and Indiana Jones have also sold more on the Wii than the other two as well. These are 3rd Party Games. Lego Indiana Jones and Batman sold more on the XBOX360, and like the Wii's Sports, they were pack-ins with various XBOX360 models.

[QUOTE="thedude-"]

Publishers did not commit to it. Their biggest attempts still had features with limited appeal. We have been over this millions of times and pretty much it looks like out of the mold games from third parties are few and far between. Epic Mickey and DQ Wii are true attempts at big third party games.

NaveedLife

I would say that this is about accurate. I just don't feel that the titles are usually as good as they could be. Also, third parties tend to confuse a good "core" gamers title, with a M rated gruesome title. I like those too, but just because there is blood all over doesn't mean I am going to buy it. It would be nice to see some high budget games come out of third parties, such as The Last Story, which SEEMS amazing from what I have seen. If it is not released in NA....:evil:

[QUOTE="mariokart64fan"]gaming clone you are wrong about that no con sole/nintendo system had good support even with only 398 games the n64 had plenty of hardcore aaa titles the snes and nes had even more so but still , you cant calim that nintendo never had suppport and this gen is no different nintendo wii has support AlmightyDerek

Now now, I was not saying that the Wii/ Game Cube/ N64 didnt have good 3rd party tittles, they did/ do. I am just saying most 3rd party games on the N64 and up (Im saying MOST) didnt sell well/ simply were not good. NowMy favorite games on the N64 were 3rd party tittles (Golden Eye, some game I dont remember the name to, Bango Kazooie (and twooie), Gear Rally, Glover, Rayman 2, Tony Hawk Proskater 2, etc)

[QUOTE="AlmightyDerek"][QUOTE="mariokart64fan"]gaming clone you are wrong about that no con sole/nintendo system had good support even with only 398 games the n64 had plenty of hardcore aaa titles the snes and nes had even more so but still , you cant calim that nintendo never had suppport and this gen is no different nintendo wii has support Gamingclone

Now now, I was not saying that the Wii/ Game Cube/ N64 didnt have good 3rd party tittles, they did/ do. I am just saying most 3rd party games on the N64 and up (Im saying MOST) didnt sell well/ simply were not good. NowMy favorite games on the N64 were 3rd party tittles (Golden Eye, some game I dont remember the name to, Bango Kazooie (and twooie), Gear Rally, Glover, Rayman 2, Tony Hawk Proskater 2, etc)

[QUOTE="Gamingclone"]

Now now, I was not saying that the Wii/ Game Cube/ N64 didnt have good 3rd party tittles, they did/ do. I am just saying most 3rd party games on the N64 and up (Im saying MOST) didnt sell well/ simply were not good. NowMy favorite games on the N64 were 3rd party tittles (Golden Eye, some game I dont remember the name to, Bango Kazooie (and twooie), Gear Rally, Glover, Rayman 2, Tony Hawk Proskater 2, etc)

AlmightyDerek

I know, just saying since sadly the xbox got banjo:cry: but atleast Golden Eyeremains exclusive to this day :) (not counting the new golden eye, it has changed a bit too much to be considered the same game). Yeah, hopefully Nintendo will help 3rd party devs with the 3DS about advertising (mainly in movies and for the suckers who bought sony's 3D TVs)

speaking as a former wii owner for the past 7 months the problem was lack of advertising and somewhat low quality third party. i know ratings arent everything tastunoko/gta 4 anyone but the quality of third party wii games are relatively low compared to the 360/ps3. sure wii owners have nmh,madworld and muramasa but they just arent comparable to red dead redemption,mass effect 2,bayonetta. also why is it that wii owners get a gimped call of duty and no resident evil 5 but a bunch of rail shooters its cuz publishers look for any excuse to not do there best on the wii

I disagree. The Wii has loads of great games. Some game's scores may be lower, but I feel that has more to do with the fact that Wii games tend to differ from those available on the other consoles. With the other 2 consoles, you end up with many similar themed games with equally similar gameplay and they become a safer option for gamers. For sure, the online support is far better than the Wii's, and online shoot'em ups will, seemingly, always reign supreme, but there are many highly-rated 360/PS3 games that I feel are not as good as some of the lower rated Wii games. I think this in an opinion many others would share, if they were not simply writing off the Wii without trying out the games properly.

The Wii has a massive collection of great games, which even if sequels to older generation games, all differ from each other. With the 360/PS3 its a huge collection of similar FPS games, 3rd person action/adventure games and racing games. Oh and a load of 'physics-based' platformers that aren't anywhere near as original as they make out they are.

Companies don't advertise their games and people cannot play demos of games either. The Wii does have a nice third party. Monster Hunter 3, Zack and Wiki, Sin and Punishment, Call of Duty, Little Kings Story, Prince of Persia, Red Steel 2, Trauma Center, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, No More Heroes, etc. People need have multiplayer in shooters. Fighters are hit and miss, not everyone is into RTS games, and so on. 3rd parties just don't hype people up for their games or put much focus on thier wii projects.

gamenerd15

But I agree that most third parties need to actually advertise.

[QUOTE="aransom"]

If 3rd parties make really good games people will buy them. Buying sort of good games won't encourage them to make really good games, it will just reward them for not working that hard, and we'll just get more sort of good games.

Alex_Thomson

speaking as a former wii owner for the past 7 months the problem was lack of advertising and somewhat low quality third party. i know ratings arent everything tastunoko/gta 4 anyone but the quality of third party wii games are relatively low compared to the 360/ps3. sure wii owners have nmh,madworld and muramasa but they just arent comparable to red dead redemption,mass effect 2,bayonetta. also why is it that wii owners get a gimped call of duty and no resident evil 5 but a bunch of rail shooters its cuz publishers look for any excuse to not do there best on the wii

ps2snesgod

call of duty isnt gimped... World at war was :P.. but not relfex, graphics of course are much worse and no voicechat.

damn resi 5 would have been awesome on wii controls.. but they give us rail shooters! wth.. i dont get it.

and yes i feel 3rd party on wii is not quite the quality of 3rd party on xbox/ps3 .. really for the them..3rd party is as good or better than 1st party :o

call of duty isnt gimped... World at war was :P.. but not relfex, graphics of course are much worse and no voicechat.

damn resi 5 would have been awesome on wii controls.. but they give us rail shooters! wth.. i dont get it.

and yes i feel 3rd party on wii is not quite the quality of 3rd party on xbox/ps3 .. really for the them..3rd party is as good or better than 1st party :o

How can Wii's 3rd party support get better if some of the hardcore games on Wii (Red Steel 2, madworld, house of the dead overkill) don't get enough support to motivate devs to release more hardcore games on Wii? If this continues, we can't expect 3rd party support to get any better on the Wii. Hopefully this problem will be fixed by Nintendo's next console.

Wii4Fun

If 3rd parties make really good games people will buy them. Buying sort of good games won't encourage them to make really good games, it will just reward them for not working that hard, and we'll just get more sort of good games.

aransom

Same with Madworld. It has its hook in the extreme violence and stylish graphics, but the rest of the game is mediocre at best.

Overkill, same thing. It's funny at times, but it brings nothing new to the table as a rail shooter, and it's just not that great as a rail shooter in the first place.

So if someone isn't really into the single defining feature of one of these games, then he won't buy the game. REALLY good games have multiple hooks, or the one hook is SO GOOD and widely appealing that the rest of the game just has to be up to par with that defining feature (like the Mario Galaxy games). A lot of games have multiplayer in case a single-player campaign isn't enough of a hook for players. Many third-party Wii games, although they're still good, don't have the full package needed for huge sales.

has any commented that at least two of these "hardcore" games on the Wii came from franchises known for their suckage? HOTD:O and Red Steel 2. The Conduit came from a dev known for its suckage. Madworld well, its obviously niche. I personally disliked it. I believe that the CoD games and Monster Hunter Tri sold pretty well on the Wii. Nobody mentions those.

[QUOTE="aransom"]

If 3rd parties make really good games people will buy them. Buying sort of good games won't encourage them to make really good games, it will just reward them for not working that hard, and we'll just get more sort of good games.

JordanElek

Same with Madworld. It has its hook in the extreme violence and stylish graphics, but the rest of the game is mediocre at best.

Overkill, same thing. It's funny at times, but it brings nothing new to the table as a rail shooter, and it's just not that great as a rail shooter in the first place.

So if someone isn't really into the single defining feature of one of these games, then he won't buy the game. REALLY good games have multiple hooks, or the one hook is SO GOOD and widely appealing that the rest of the game just has to be up to par with that defining feature (like the Mario Galaxy games). A lot of games have multiplayer in case a single-player campaign isn't enough of a hook for players. Many third-party Wii games, although they're still good, don't have the full package needed for huge sales.

A lot of 3rd party Wii games are half-assed crap. Maybe they would get more support if they made better games? Red Steel 2 would probably be a big seller with multi-player + online, Madworld would probably sell better if it wasn't extremely repetitive, HOTD:O would probably sell better if... it was a different game. Railshooters wouldn't sell well on any console..

Let's just hope 3rd party developers don't suck as much for the next Nintendo console. Better graphics would probably help A LOT in getting other devs interested in making something else than half-assed games.

[QUOTE="gamenerd15"]

Companies don't advertise their games and people cannot play demos of games either. The Wii does have a nice third party. Monster Hunter 3, Zack and Wiki, Sin and Punishment, Call of Duty, Little Kings Story, Prince of Persia, Red Steel 2, Trauma Center, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, No More Heroes, etc. People need have multiplayer in shooters. Fighters are hit and miss, not everyone is into RTS games, and so on. 3rd parties just don't hype people up for their games or put much focus on thier wii projects.

Nintendo_Ownes7

But I agree that most third parties need to actually advertise.

Sin and Punishment was developed by Treasure. They are the same people who made guardian heroes, gunstar heroes, mischef makers, and other games. They used to primarily make games for Sega. This means it is not a first party title. It might be published by Nintendo but they did not develop it.

[QUOTE="Nintendo_Ownes7"]

[QUOTE="gamenerd15"]

Companies don't advertise their games and people cannot play demos of games either. The Wii does have a nice third party. Monster Hunter 3, Zack and Wiki, Sin and Punishment, Call of Duty, Little Kings Story, Prince of Persia, Red Steel 2, Trauma Center, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, No More Heroes, etc. People need have multiplayer in shooters. Fighters are hit and miss, not everyone is into RTS games, and so on. 3rd parties just don't hype people up for their games or put much focus on thier wii projects.

gamenerd15

But I agree that most third parties need to actually advertise.

Sin and Punishment was developed by Treasure. They are the same people who made guardian heroes, gunstar heroes, mischef makers, and other games. They used to primarily make games for Sega. This means it is not a first party title. It might be published by Nintendo but they did not develop it.

[QUOTE="gamenerd15"]

[QUOTE="Nintendo_Ownes7"]That is first party title.

But I agree that most third parties need to actually advertise.

Nintendo_Ownes7

Sin and Punishment was developed by Treasure. They are the same people who made guardian heroes, gunstar heroes, mischef makers, and other games. They used to primarily make games for Sega. This means it is not a first party title. It might be published by Nintendo but they did not develop it.

Nontheless, Nintendo didn't develop the game so it still is 3rd party even though Nintendo published it. Ninja Gaiden is still 3rd party even though Microsoft published it.

There are such things as second parties. Rare would be an example. They are developers who are their own company but some other company owns shares in them. Nintendo had shares in the company and then sold those shares to microsoft. Rare also put a few games on Genesis as well before Nintendo bought the shares.