An idea for Metroid..

A Hub area is the starting point,maybe that planet/colony from Other M at the end.

Open ended world,with different planets and stuff.

Takes place some years after Fusion,with an older Samus,a new suit or new powers.

Even moments of intimacy(why not?).

I want the ability to fly around by the middle of the game.

More story-heavy,exploring Samus' past,with playable chapters from it.

Third-person action adventure style.

Feeling of exploration more prominent.

A Hub area is the starting point,maybe that planet/colony from Other M at the end.

Open ended world,with different planets and stuff.

Takes place some years after Fusion,with an older Samus,a new suit or new powers.

Even moments of intimacy(why not?).

I want the ability to fly around by the middle of the game.

More story-heavy,exploring Samus' past,with playable chapters from it.

Third-person action adventure style.

GreekGameManiac

lol you want Metroid:Mass Effect?

I would like an open world game where Samus is a bounty hunter, carrying out missions for cash and resources. There could be a Mass Effect- style conflict that makes building up resources and money important to prepare for a big fight, which I think fits into Metroid just fine. So I like the Mass Effect idea, but please no romances or Other:M style plot sequences. Third person perspective is okay as well but I would prefer the Prime first person view.

I don't think that having it take place after Fusion would be a good idea since by then the Federation is basically corrupt by then and Samus would pretty much be a fugitive. Idk, maybe it would work but that would be tough imo.

The best idea for Metroid is to go back to the 2D exploratory style. Make a game that follows in the steps of Super Metroid, even though that would admittedly be difficult to pull off.

A Hub area is the starting point,maybe that planet/colony from Other M at the end.

Open ended world,with different planets and stuff.

Takes place some years after Fusion,with an older Samus,a new suit or new powers.

Even moments of intimacy(why not?).

I want the ability to fly around by the middle of the game.

More story-heavy,exploring Samus' past,with playable chapters from it.

Third-person action adventure style.

GreekGameManiac

How old we talkin'? It would be interesting to see nintendo move away from the sex symbol Samus and towards a matured older women, more of a matriarchal figure.

lol you want Metroid:Mass Effect?

I would like an open world game where Samus is a bounty hunter, carrying out missions for cash and resources.

GunSmith1_basic

How old we talkin'? It would be interesting to see nintendo move away from the sex symbol Samus and towards a matured older women, more of a matriarchal figure.

Minishdriveby

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

How old we talkin'? It would be interesting to see nintendo move away from the sex symbol Samus and towards a matured older women, more of a matriarchal figure.

Sepewrath

Seeing that for much of the series you're rewarded with scantily clad seductive pictures of Samus, the hardened bounty hunter, depending on how well you did in your play through, I would say undoubtedly that Samus is used as a sex figure.

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

How old we talkin'? It would be interesting to see nintendo move away from the sex symbol Samus and towards a matured older women, more of a matriarchal figure.

Sepewrath

I know what they were saying, I was having some fun. Regardless, I don't agree, the desire to run away from the image of attractive women in gaming is not good. There is nothing that says a women in a bathing suit cant be a badass bounty hunter too. There should not be some set image of what a strong woman has to look like. She doesn't need to be an older "matriarchal" figure, she can look exactly the way she looks now and still be someone, people in the universe look to, respect and look to for leadership. Sepewrath

Agreed. Let Samus stay the character that she is, figure and all. The thing I find sad about this sort of discussion is that the moment a character's persona starts to change or evolve, people backlash because that change doesn't fit their image of the character. Other M is a perfect example of this. For the first time, Samus actually showed some emotion in regards to what was a pretty difficult childhood, and you had some people comparing it to a Lifetime movie, since it didn't create a cold, hardened image of a character best known inside of a high-tech suit for the majority of the game. At this point, I'm not even sure the risk of this sort of reaction is even worth the effort of change, especially if it means forcing Samus to shed away some of her beauty just to do away with a "sex symbol" perception that isn't even the series' dominant element.

Now, about the game itself, this whole notion that every game needs to be "open" is something that I'm finding increasing disturbing. Sure, many games nowadays are build on giving gamers the freedom to explore massive settings at will, but a game of Metroid's history is the exact opposite of that. Metroid is a game that depends on the limitations and parameters that a player has to deal with in order to create the satisfaction of obtaining that right tool and/or trick to move forward. That's part of what makes exploring each and every new Metroid game rewarding, knowing that you've had to earn the privilege of gaining access to that area somehow. Taking this away would just make Metroid a standard action game in this day and age, and there are plenty of those around to get your fix.

Now, about the game itself, this whole notion that every game needs to be "open" is something that I'm finding increasing disturbing. Sure, many games nowadays are build on giving gamers the freedom to explore massive settings at will, but a game of Metroid's history is the exact opposite of that. Metroid is a game that depends on the limitations and parameters that a player has to deal with in order to create the satisfaction of obtaining that right tool and/or trick to move forward. That's part of what makes exploring each and every new Metroid game rewarding, knowing that you've had to earn the privilege of gaining access to that area somehow. Taking this away would just make Metroid a standard action game in this day and age, and there are plenty of those around to get your fix.

Madmangamer364

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

Now, about the game itself, this whole notion that every game needs to be "open" is something that I'm finding increasing disturbing. Sure, many games nowadays are build on giving gamers the freedom to explore massive settings at will, but a game of Metroid's history is the exact opposite of that. Metroid is a game that depends on the limitations and parameters that a player has to deal with in order to create the satisfaction of obtaining that right tool and/or trick to move forward. That's part of what makes exploring each and every new Metroid game rewarding, knowing that you've had to earn the privilege of gaining access to that area somehow. Taking this away would just make Metroid a standard action game in this day and age, and there are plenty of those around to get your fix.

Sepewrath

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

Now, about the game itself, this whole notion that every game needs to be "open" is something that I'm finding increasing disturbing. Sure, many games nowadays are build on giving gamers the freedom to explore massive settings at will, but a game of Metroid's history is the exact opposite of that. Metroid is a game that depends on the limitations and parameters that a player has to deal with in order to create the satisfaction of obtaining that right tool and/or trick to move forward. That's part of what makes exploring each and every new Metroid game rewarding, knowing that you've had to earn the privilege of gaining access to that area somehow. Taking this away would just make Metroid a standard action game in this day and age, and there are plenty of those around to get your fix.

Sepewrath

I know what you mean, but in my eyes Metroid is NOT a linear game. yes you have to have certain items to progress, which is a sty1e I love (Zelda and metroid, but there is tons of exploration and plenty of items you never need to find, but can.

I know what they were saying, I was having some fun. Regardless, I don't agree, the desire to run away from the image of attractive women in gaming is not good. There is nothing that says a women in a bathing suit cant be a badass bounty hunter too. There should not be some set image of what a strong woman has to look like. She doesn't need to be an older "matriarchal" figure, she can look exactly the way she looks now and still be someone, people in the universe look to, respect and look to for leadership. Sepewrath

I can't disagree more with you there. Metroid isn't about a sex-sell. Making Samus super hot was also a strange move, much less making her walk around in painted-on tights. Why can't the heroine of a game look like Alyx from Half-Life? She is still very attractive, but she's a real woman. That's what Samus should have been like, not Sakamoto's sexual fantasy

Bottom line is that it is not empowering. It's exploitative. When a guy is the protagonist it is the generic, normal character and the player can focus on the gameplay. When it's a woman you have to include the sexual element.

lol you want Metroid:Mass Effect?

I would like an open world game where Samus is a bounty hunter, carrying out missions for cash and resources.

GunSmith1_basic

In my opinion they should stick to the original games with a lot of sequence breaks and only gameplay like Fusion, Zero Mission, Super Metroid and Metroid Prime1.

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]I know what they were saying, I was having some fun. Regardless, I don't agree, the desire to run away from the image of attractive women in gaming is not good. There is nothing that says a women in a bathing suit cant be a badass bounty hunter too. There should not be some set image of what a strong woman has to look like. She doesn't need to be an older "matriarchal" figure, she can look exactly the way she looks now and still be someone, people in the universe look to, respect and look to for leadership. GunSmith1_basic

I can't disagree more with you there. Metroid isn't about a sex-sell. Making Samus super hot was also a strange move, much less making her walk around in painted-on tights. Why can't the heroine of a game look like Alyx from Half-Life? She is still very attractive, but she's a real woman. That's what Samus should have been like, not Sakamoto's sexual fantasy

Bottom line is that it is not empowering. It's exploitative. When a guy is the protagonist it is the generic, normal character and the player can focus on the gameplay. When it's a woman you have to include the sexual element.

You're right about one thing. Metroid isn't a sex-sell. That's why I don't see what's the big deal about here about changing her image. It's not like you see promos where Nintendo's selling Samus as a sex symbol, even though it would be a very easy thing to do in this day and age. Heck, Eidos was doing it with Lara Croft ages ago, so it's not like this is an angle Nintendo couldn't have used. However, it's because they know that's not what Samus is as a character of theirs, they haven't.

No one even knew that Samus was even a female until she was unmasked, and it's because of that origin that makes her a very unique character and why she CAN be portrayed as the character Sepewrath was speaking. Her physical appearance has nothing to do what the kind of personality and identity that she has. And truth be told, the Zero Suit is no bigger a deal today than a bikini was in Super Metroid almost 20 years ago. Heck, by comparison, it's rather tame, I think. How others tend to exploit Samus' attractiveness is one thing, but to this point, it hasn't been a distracting (or even beneficial) factor for the Metroid series, so there's no sense complaining about it.

*screw attack. screwball would be... something else :P
BrunoBRS

I can't disagree more with you there. Metroid isn't about a sex-sell. Making Samus super hot was also a strange move, much less making her walk around in painted-on tights. Why can't the heroine of a game look like Alyx from Half-Life? She is still very attractive, but she's a real woman. That's what Samus should have been like, not Sakamoto's sexual fantasy

Bottom line is that it is not empowering. It's exploitative. When a guy is the protagonist it is the generic, normal character and the player can focus on the gameplay. When it's a woman you have to include the sexual element.

GunSmith1_basic

And like MMG said, they don't sell Samus on her looks; she spends the entire game in a bulky suit of armor where at most, you catch glimpses of her eyes. If you checking out Samus' hips while she's wearing that armor, I don't know what to say about that. But clearly that's not the idea, that's why she wears armor and doesn't spend the entire game dressed like Mai from King of Fighters. Clearly you have some kind of complex about a woman being attractive, that's too bad, but not all characters male or female, need to be generic so that you can avoid looking at their ass. I have never had any trouble focusing on the gameplay in a Metroid game, that is why I enjoyed Other M, because they gameplay was great.

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]

I can't disagree more with you there. Metroid isn't about a sex-sell. Making Samus super hot was also a strange move, much less making her walk around in painted-on tights. Why can't the heroine of a game look like Alyx from Half-Life? She is still very attractive, but she's a real woman. That's what Samus should have been like, not Sakamoto's sexual fantasy

Bottom line is that it is not empowering. It's exploitative. When a guy is the protagonist it is the generic, normal character and the player can focus on the gameplay. When it's a woman you have to include the sexual element.

Sepewrath

And like MMG said, they don't sell Samus on her looks; she spends the entire game in a bulky suit of armor where at most, you catch glimpses of her eyes. If you checking out Samus' hips while she's wearing that armor, I don't know what to say about that. But clearly that's not the idea, that's why she wears armor and doesn't spend the entire game dressed like Mai from King of Fighters. Clearly you have some kind of complex about a woman being attractive, that's too bad, but not all characters male or female, need to be generic so that you can avoid looking at their ass. I have never had any trouble focusing on the gameplay in a Metroid game, that is why I enjoyed Other M, because they gameplay was great.

ehhh...I wouldn't say this isn't suggestive or anything. Zero suit samus which is playable in games would be the counter argument. I don't think anyone is mentioning Other M's story as evidence of her being a sex symbol because it's not, so there really is no need to bring it up since no one is arguing with you although I will say her horrible monologues did seem like aLifetime movie, but I think that's just something to do with monologues in general.

ehhh...I wouldn't say this isn't suggestive or anything. Zero suit samus which is playable in games would be the counter argument. I don't think anyone is mentioning Other M's story as evidence of her being a sex symbol because it's not, so there really is no need to bring it up since no one is arguing with you although I will say her horrible monologues did seem like aLifetime movie, but I think that's just something to do with monologues in general.

Minishdriveby

Just look at it this way. If that is the 'sexiest' official ad that you can find that features Samus (where she is in a tunnel escaping gunfire) over the extent of her character's existance, that's still doing extremely well. The biggest threat with that commercial would have to do with what certain people thought about a one second angle here and there, not what the commercial is actually implying. And that was a Japanese commercial, too, where selling sex appeal in games has been far more obvious elsewhere.

Also, you're kinda missing the point about Other M. It wasn't so much about Samus being a sex symbol or not, but about Samus' persona evolving, which didn't sit well with many people. Up until that point, people wanted Nintendo to open up her character, and when they finally did, there was a huge backlash because it turns out that Samus actually has a feminine soul. There were legitimate reasons for Samus to feel the way that she did, but because her trademark outfit is a Power Suit, it was almost like the expectations of her character were no different from your everyday space marine in all of the other Sci-Fi games on the market. I don't wish to call it a double standard, but I do believe there's is a strong argument to be made from such an angle.

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

ehhh...I wouldn't say this isn't suggestive or anything. Zero suit samus which is playable in games would be the counter argument. I don't think anyone is mentioning Other M's story as evidence of her being a sex symbol because it's not, so there really is no need to bring it up since no one is arguing with you although I will say her horrible monologues did seem like aLifetime movie, but I think that's just something to do with monologues in general.

Madmangamer364

Just look at it this way. If that is the 'sexiest' official ad that you can find that features Samus (where she is in a tunnel escaping gunfire) over the extent of her character's existance, that's still doing extremely well. The biggest threat with that commercial would have to do with what certain people thought about a one second angle here and there, not what the commercial is actually implying. And that was a Japanese commercial, too, where selling sex appeal in games has been far more obvious elsewhere.

Also, you're kinda missing the point about Other M. It wasn't so much about Samus being a sex symbol or not, but about Samus' persona evolving, which didn't sit well with many people. Up until that point, people wanted Nintendo to open up her character, and when they finally did, there was a huge backlash because it turns out that Samus actually has a feminine soul. There were legitimate reasons for Samus to feel the way that she did, but because her trademark outfit is a Power Suit, it was almost like the expectations of her character were no different from your everyday space marine in all of the other Sci-Fi games on the market. I don't wish to call it a double standard, but I do believe there's is a strong argument to be made from such an angle.

^Pretty much, people were expecting Samus to just say "I'm badass and I kill things" I would definitely call it a double standard and the ones arguing that its sexist are in fact being sexist themselves. When you say "Oh she's an attractive woman, who cares about what else she does" Your being sexist. When you say "She's emotional, they made her feminine" Your being sexist, because there are a bunch of emotional men out there. Its funny, because people with the armchair feminism are generally the only ones being sexist.

Of course Other M has to be brought up, as its the most recent Metroid game and it was accussed of sexism.

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"][QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

How old we talkin'? It would be interesting to see nintendo move away from the sex symbol Samus and towards a matured older women, more of a matriarchal figure.

BrunoBRS

Perhaps a game focusing on Samus' life before her first game. How she made a name for herself as a bounty hunter with a lot of temporary weapons for the arm cannon with only the classic upgrades ( wave beam, ice beam, etc...). this game would have a more adult story as she would be required to steal, capture, and even assassinate. Unfortunately Nintendo would never produce it. *slowly logs on to MP Hunters multiplayer*HapplesNerd

I am often amused by statements like this. What is real about Alyx? Is it the jacket? lol. Last I checked, there many many attractive women in the world, who walk around in skin tight clothing. You want to talk about realism, well in Other M, you were looking at it. People with traumatic childhoods tend to be a mess, people have daddy issues, teens are rebellious etc. There is nothing realistic about Samus in the other games, someone who commits genocide, without so much as a word being uttered. So don't try and use realism as an excuse, its not gonna fly here.

And like MMG said, they don't sell Samus on her looks; she spends the entire game in a bulky suit of armor where at most, you catch glimpses of her eyes. If you checking out Samus' hips while she's wearing that armor, I don't know what to say about that. But clearly that's not the idea, that's why she wears armor and doesn't spend the entire game dressed like Mai from King of Fighters. Clearly you have some kind of complex about a woman being attractive, that's too bad, but not all characters male or female, need to be generic so that you can avoid looking at their ass. I have never had any trouble focusing on the gameplay in a Metroid game, that is why I enjoyed Other M, because they gameplay was great.

Sepewrath

Retro tried to move away from that, focus more on that great atmosphere of dread and isolation than on character development. Sakamoto clearly had other ideas. Not only is Metroid plot and character driven now, but the choices around Samus' character model became more sexual and fetishistic. Just because the whole game doesn't have this doesn't mean it wasn't done, and yes Samus is not as 'real' anymore and is moving dangerously close to DOA volleyball territory (ie trash).

I'm not even all that offended by it from a feminist point of view. To have a female progatonist in this type of game is refreshing. It isn't done often. To have a sexualized female character is stale. It's overdone. Metroid should be better than that. Saying that there are super hot women in real life is obviously true but doesn't change the fact that the choice to depict Samus that way was to exploit her looks to stimulate the audience in ways that have nothing to do with what Metroid series is all about.

^Pretty much, people were expecting Samus to just say "I'm badass and I kill things" I would definitely call it a double standard and the ones arguing that its sexist are in fact being sexist themselves. When you say "Oh she's an attractive woman, who cares about what else she does" Your being sexist. When you say "She's emotional, they made her feminine" Your being sexist, because there are a bunch of emotional men out there. Its funny, because people with the armchair feminism are generally the only ones being sexist.

Of course Other M has to be brought up, as its the most recent Metroid game and it was accussed of sexism.

Sepewrath

Giving Samus human traits and feminity was a good thing, but you have to admit that it is odd that in all video games the only protagonist that is given these types of emotional issues is a woman. Just sayin'. Sakamoto tries to make a fully characterized Samus and she is obsessed with motherhood and has crippling emotional problems.

You should imagine what women who view all this would think. Where is the game with the guy paralyzed with fear and emotional baggage? Samus just so happens to have a perfect 10 body? That's just by coincidence? Maybe it's a coincidence in DOA volleyball as well lol

OH, and before i forget. so much for samus being a frail little girl in other M:

point is, samus is as badass as she gets in other M. she still does her job. everything you saw in other metroid games is still valid because other M shows that samus, when she needs to kick ass, still kicks ass (this time, literally). the difference is that other M goes beyond the job and actually has characters for a change.

I'm not opposed to having story and even emotion in a Metroid game... but get someone who knows how to write! This will sound offensive, but not everyone is into the Japanese style of melodramatic anime... as proven by Other M.

I like Other M's style of gameplay, but we should be able to fully play in first person as well. This would take a lot of work to make it good but I think it would be one hell of a game. And no more central hub areas, no more space station simulated desserts, jungles, etc etc. Let's go back to a planet (or planets).

i'm just gonna ask something about people saying the zero suit is some sort of sex appeal tool.

SHE'S INSIDE BATTLE ARMOR. what exactly were you expecting to find her wearing? a jacket and a pair of jeans? no, she's wearing what anyone inside any kind of suit uses. an inner suit, preferrably one as skin-tight as possible as to not rub all the time against the outer suit. would you look at that? even our astronauts use it.

i guess now astronauts are all sex symbols.

yes, samus is a pretty woman (as far as a bunch of pixels representing a woman can be called pretty), and yes, she likes to wear a bikini once she's done with her job. and yet, you don't seem to run to the beach with a giant banner calling every woman in there a slut. so what's the problem when the pixel lady does it? it's not like she's selling herself as a sex product.BrunoBRS

And Gunsmith, you really need to play more games if you think Samus is the only person ever to show those kind of emotions. Here's a good example, Dom in Gears of War 2. Now you know what the dudes in Gears are like, yet here is a guy who cant get his s*** together, because his wife is missing. The Prince in PoP, even the great Commander Shepard has been broken before. Motherf'n Batman in Arkham City, so don't try and claim that Samus is the only one ever to be emotional in a game. You might want to play a JRPG every now and then. Like I said, you are claiming that being an attractive woman somehow takes credibility from her. You know what that makes you? Sexist. Sakamoto said, that Samus can be smoking hot, emotionally scarred and still kick a space pirates face off, as pictured above. While your saying she might as well be playing volleyball, your sexist. You want to find the person who is wrong in this equation, look in the mirror.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]i'm just gonna ask something about people saying the zero suit is some sort of sex appeal tool.

SHE'S INSIDE BATTLE ARMOR. what exactly were you expecting to find her wearing? a jacket and a pair of jeans? no, she's wearing what anyone inside any kind of suit uses. an inner suit, preferrably one as skin-tight as possible as to not rub all the time against the outer suit. would you look at that? even our astronauts use it.

i guess now astronauts are all sex symbols.

yes, samus is a pretty woman (as far as a bunch of pixels representing a woman can be called pretty), and yes, she likes to wear a bikini once she's done with her job. and yet, you don't seem to run to the beach with a giant banner calling every woman in there a slut. so what's the problem when the pixel lady does it? it's not like she's selling herself as a sex product.Sepewrath

And Gunsmith, you really need to play more games if you think Samus is the only person ever to show those kind of emotions. Here's a good example, Dom in Gears of War 2. Now you know what the dudes in Gears are like, yet here is a guy who cant get his s*** together, because his wife is missing. The Prince in PoP, even the great Commander Shepard has been broken before. Motherf'n Batman in Arkham City, so don't try and claim that Samus is the only one ever to be emotional in a game. You might want to play a JRPG every now and then. Like I said, you are claiming that being an attractive woman somehow takes credibility from her. You know what that makes you? Sexist. Sakamoto said, that Samus can be smoking hot, emotionally scarred and still kick a space pirates face off, as pictured above. While your saying she might as well be playing volleyball, your sexist. You want to find the person who is wrong in this equation, look in the mirror.

Here is exactly how you are twisting my words: you are taking the criticisms I have of Sakamoto and rewriting my opinions to say that I am criticizing Samus. That's not happening here. I am not ordering Samus to dress like a nun or criticizing her for what she wears. I am questioning why Nintendo used the opportunity of developing Samus's appearance and character the way they did. This is like 7 of 9 on Star Trek Voyager. They introduce her as a total sex sell. Having her be smoking hot is one thing, but making her wear that ridiculous skin tight jumpsuit crosses the line. It doesn't matter if 7 of 9 claims that she enjoys wearing it that way. It doesn't matter if she's a kick-ass woman who answers to no man. It's just blatant exploitation and it lowers the fiction. The is about class. News anchors don't wear that kind of thing. I guess according to you I would be sexist if I criticized a news channel for hiring super hot blonde anchors and making them wear tight blue jumpsuits. Do you see how you are totally missing the point?

Forget about whether I am calling it sexist or not. I'm actually not a hardcore feminist. The sex-sell worked in Mass Effect because they established the series in that way. I dislike it in Metroid mainly because it isn't Metroid. Metroid is about immersive atmosphere and lonelinness. The easiest way to lose sight of that is to distract the player with an obviously showcased beautiful woman and fill the game with as much dialogue and characterization as they did. Any Metroid purist should agree with me on that one.

The examples you gave of a frail male protagonist are pretty weak btw. In them, either the character was not the protagonist of the game or they were simply not compromised by their emotions (simply having emotions does not qualify). So if you can think of a real example that would be appreciated.

edit: but, btw, I don't think it is productive for this to be a who's-more-sexist-than-who discussion. I don't think you're sexist. I think you're a guy who likes to look at a beautiful woman and there isn't anything wrong with that. I'm just looking at it intellectually (maybe too much so-but I don't think so). I think that if Nintendo moves back in the right direction we can get another truly great Metroid game like Metroid Prime and not the trashy Other M (which was a commercial and critical failure btw).

You can quit twisting my words and you can definitely stop calling me a sexist.

Here is exactly how you are twisting my words: you are taking the criticisms I have of Sakamoto and rewriting my opinions to say that I am criticizing Samus. That's not happening here. I am not ordering Samus to dress like a nun or criticizing her for what she wears. I am questioning why Nintendo used the opportunity of developing Samus's appearance and character the way they did. This is like 7 of 9 on Star Trek Voyager. They introduce her as a total sex sell. Having her be smoking hot is one thing, but making her wear that ridiculous skin tight jumpsuit crosses the line. It doesn't matter if 7 of 9 claims that she enjoys wearing it that way. It doesn't matter if she's a kick-ass woman who answers to no man. It's just blatant exploitation and it lowers the fiction. The is about class. News anchors don't wear that kind of thing. I guess according to you I would be sexist if I criticized a news channel for hiring super hot blonde anchors and making them wear tight blue jumpsuits. Do you see how you are totally missing the point?

Forget about whether I am calling it sexist or not. I'm actually not a hardcore feminist. The sex-sell worked in Mass Effect because they established the series in that way. I dislike it in Metroid mainly because it isn't Metroid. Metroid is about immersive atmosphere and lonelinness. The easiest way to lose sight of that is to distract the player with an obviously showcased beautiful woman and fill the game with as much dialogue and characterization as they did. Any Metroid purist should agree with me on that one.

The examples you gave of a frail male protagonist are pretty weak btw. In them, either the character was not the protagonist of the game or they were simply not compromised by their emotions (simply having emotions does not qualify). So if you can think of a real example that would be appreciated.

edit: but, btw, I don't think it is productive for this to be a who's-more-sexist-than-who discussion. I don't think you're sexist. I think you're a guy who likes to look at a beautiful woman and there isn't anything wrong with that. I'm just looking at it intellectually (maybe too much so-but I don't think so). I think that if Nintendo moves back in the right direction we can get another truly great Metroid game like Metroid Prime and not the trashy Other M (which was a commercial and critical failure btw).

GunSmith1_basic

After Other M when Metroid is discussed always the topic about Samus's character butcher and sexification appears on the thread.

Ok, I'll bite. To the one against the Zero Suit, do you prefer Samus to wear it or wear this: [spoiler] [/spoiler]

.

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]i'm just gonna ask something about people saying the zero suit is some sort of sex appeal tool.

SHE'S INSIDE BATTLE ARMOR. what exactly were you expecting to find her wearing? a jacket and a pair of jeans? no, she's wearing what anyone inside any kind of suit uses. an inner suit, preferrably one as skin-tight as possible as to not rub all the time against the outer suit. would you look at that? even our astronauts use it.

i guess now astronauts are all sex symbols.

yes, samus is a pretty woman (as far as a bunch of pixels representing a woman can be called pretty), and yes, she likes to wear a bikini once she's done with her job. and yet, you don't seem to run to the beach with a giant banner calling every woman in there a slut. so what's the problem when the pixel lady does it? it's not like she's selling herself as a sex product.GunSmith1_basic

And Gunsmith, you really need to play more games if you think Samus is the only person ever to show those kind of emotions. Here's a good example, Dom in Gears of War 2. Now you know what the dudes in Gears are like, yet here is a guy who cant get his s*** together, because his wife is missing. The Prince in PoP, even the great Commander Shepard has been broken before. Motherf'n Batman in Arkham City, so don't try and claim that Samus is the only one ever to be emotional in a game. You might want to play a JRPG every now and then. Like I said, you are claiming that being an attractive woman somehow takes credibility from her. You know what that makes you? Sexist. Sakamoto said, that Samus can be smoking hot, emotionally scarred and still kick a space pirates face off, as pictured above. While your saying she might as well be playing volleyball, your sexist. You want to find the person who is wrong in this equation, look in the mirror.

Here is exactly how you are twisting my words: you are taking the criticisms I have of Sakamoto and rewriting my opinions to say that I am criticizing Samus. That's not happening here. I am not ordering Samus to dress like a nun or criticizing her for what she wears. I am questioning why Nintendo used the opportunity of developing Samus's appearance and character the way they did. This is like 7 of 9 on Star Trek Voyager. They introduce her as a total sex sell. Having her be smoking hot is one thing, but making her wear that ridiculous skin tight jumpsuit crosses the line. It doesn't matter if 7 of 9 claims that she enjoys wearing it that way. It doesn't matter if she's a kick-ass woman who answers to no man. It's just blatant exploitation and it lowers the fiction. The is about class. News anchors don't wear that kind of thing. I guess according to you I would be sexist if I criticized a news channel for hiring super hot blonde anchors and making them wear tight blue jumpsuits. Do you see how you are totally missing the point?

Forget about whether I am calling it sexist or not. I'm actually not a hardcore feminist. The sex-sell worked in Mass Effect because they established the series in that way. I dislike it in Metroid mainly because it isn't Metroid. Metroid is about immersive atmosphere and lonelinness. The easiest way to lose sight of that is to distract the player with an obviously showcased beautiful woman and fill the game with as much dialogue and characterization as they did. Any Metroid purist should agree with me on that one.

The examples you gave of a frail male protagonist are pretty weak btw. In them, either the character was not the protagonist of the game or they were simply not compromised by their emotions (simply having emotions does not qualify). So if you can think of a real example that would be appreciated.

edit: but, btw, I don't think it is productive for this to be a who's-more-sexist-than-who discussion. I don't think you're sexist. I think you're a guy who likes to look at a beautiful woman and there isn't anything wrong with that. I'm just looking at it intellectually (maybe too much so-but I don't think so). I think that if Nintendo moves back in the right direction we can get another truly great Metroid game like Metroid Prime and not the trashy Other M (which was a commercial and critical failure btw).

Have you played Heavy Rain?....I wouldn't say you're playing a strong male character there. People see what they want to see,..the zero suit Samus is probably just a nostalgic thing from NES game. Again it isn't sexist to point out differences between male & female...female do tend to be a little more on the emotional side.

After Other M when Metroid is discussed always the topic about Samus's character butcher and sexification appears on the thread.

Ok, I'll bite. To the one against the Zero Suit, do you prefer Samus to wear it or wear this: [spoiler] [/spoiler]

Miroku32

[QUOTE="Miroku32"]

After Other M when Metroid is discussed always the topic about Samus's character butcher and sexification appears on the thread.

Ok, I'll bite. To the one against the Zero Suit, do you prefer Samus to wear it or wear this: [spoiler] [/spoiler]

Minishdriveby

but but in all the pics you can still see her busty breast...oh no!!!...& those curvey hips...oh no!!! won't somebody think of the children!!!. :P

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

[QUOTE="Miroku32"]

After Other M when Metroid is discussed always the topic about Samus's character butcher and sexification appears on the thread.

Ok, I'll bite. To the one against the Zero Suit, do you prefer Samus to wear it or wear this: [spoiler] [/spoiler]

superbuuman

but but in all the pics you can still see her busty breast...oh no!!!...& those curvey hips...oh no!!! won't somebody think of the children!!!. :P

Seeing that the entire series was made as a Alien rip-off I suggest we shave her head a la Alien 3.Minishdriveby

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]Seeing that the entire series was made as a Alien rip-off I suggest we shave her head a la Alien 3.Miroku32

Give her some steroids and giant boots. They'll disappear in no time and then you can just focus on her giant feet.

I'm not required to twist your words, and the examples I said, each and everyone was "compromised" by their emotions and were main protagonist. Just like Samus, they dropped the ball for a second and then they recovered to do what they had to do. Your making it a bigger deal, because its Samus, so either your blowing it out of proportion or your making it a bigger deal, because its a woman. And FYI, I don't care what Samus looks like, she's spend 99% of a game in a suit of armor, whether you care what she looks like or not, you don't see her. If your a Metroid purist, you should know that, especially being in all in the old games, she apparently wore a bathing suit under it.

My problem is your assertion that she is a sex symbol because she wears a tight suit. Like Bruno said, if she wore jeans and hoody, would she no longer be a "sex sell"? You talk about atmosphere and loneliness and I'm missing the part, where the zero suit has any impact on that. Unless you have some kind of magic X-ray vision where you don't see through the TV, but through Samus' armor ON the TV; what she's wearing under her suit has zero impact on that. Stop undressing her with your eyes and you wont have a problem lol. So let me pose this as a question, Samus spends 99% of a game in a suit of armor, why do you care what she has on under it? How does that in anyway effect you?

Also Dom's emotional breakdown was what Gears of War fans laughed at because it was done so horribly, horrible example.Minishdriveby

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]
Also Dom's emotional breakdown was what Gears of War fans laughed at because it was done so horribly, horrible example.Sepewrath

Like I said, we're not talking about the quality of the scene, because that's completely subjective, each person has their own opinion. We're talking about if showing those emotions somehow makes her less of the person she has always been envisioned as. Samus in my eyes has always been a badass bounty hunter, that kicks the crap out space monsters, that's between her and her goal. Other M and what she wears, has done nothing to alter that image. And Heavy Rain lol, what a bait and switch that one was, that didn't have a plot twist it had a blatant lie :PSepewrath

[QUOTE="Miroku32"]

After Other M when Metroid is discussed always the topic about Samus's character butcher and sexification appears on the thread.

Ok, I'll bite. To the one against the Zero Suit, do you prefer Samus to wear it or wear this: [spoiler] [/spoiler]

Minishdriveby

Oh my god, what is that? Miroku32

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"] Well then your arguing for the sake of arguing. No one has disagreed with you about giving Samus emotions. In fact that wasn't even the original argument.BrunoBRS

The original argument started from my statement I hope they move away from the "sex symbol Samus." It had nothing to do with emotions, just looks.

Minishdriveby

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]I know what they were saying, I was having some fun. Regardless, I don't agree, the desire to run away from the image of attractive women in gaming is not good. There is nothing that says a women in a bathing suit cant be a badass bounty hunter too. There should not be some set image of what a strong woman has to look like. She doesn't need to be an older "matriarchal" figure, she can look exactly the way she looks now and still be someone, people in the universe look to, respect and look to for leadership. GunSmith1_basic

I can't disagree more with you there. Metroid isn't about a sex-sell. Making Samus super hot was also a strange move, much less making her walk around in painted-on tights. Why can't the heroine of a game look like Alyx from Half-Life? She is still very attractive, but she's a real woman. That's what Samus should have been like, not Sakamoto's sexual fantasy

Bottom line is that it is not empowering. It's exploitative. When a guy is the protagonist it is the generic, normal character and the player can focus on the gameplay. When it's a woman you have to include the sexual element.

and even then, why is there a need to move on? the "sex symbol" samus is literally the last thing you see in the game (if you don't turn off before the credits end), and it's never seen again until you beat the game again. and like i brought up a couple times in this thread, it's not as much "sex symbol" as it is "a woman dressed like a normal person rather than having an armor on at all times like some socially disfunctional freak".