Anyone convinced that the Wii has done miserably in regard to quality titles?

You don't even seem that interested in the first party stuff yuo have played :?, if you don't appreciate Nintendo games then yu really have made a bad purchase because its been a good 15 years since I would buy a Nintendo console for 3rd party games :(. I have been disappointed by 3rd party aswell so I feel bad for you there, bu the only thing Nintendo do that bothers me is take their time releasing games and I am used to that.csliney

Dont get me wrong, i own every console nintendo has ever made. And im a die hard Zelda and mario fan. I'm more complaining about the wii-mote and how i wish nintendo didnt go so "revolutionary" but instead made it a combination of revolution and normality so it could have the games the othre consoles have, even in a toned down version. But it is so far behind in terms of technical performance the games can't be ported very easily so they port from the PSP,PS2 instead.

Quality titles?

No More Heroes

Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn

Okami

Dragon Quest: Swords

Sonic and the Lost Rings

Castle of Shikigami III

Agatha Christie: And The There Were None

I mean, there are a lot of really nice games...

and Smash Bros. is always fun! doesn't matter if you're playing alone or with friends!

Yeah, Okami is one of the most amazing games on the system, and it's from Capcom. It's a port, sadly, but a very very high quality port. At least Capcom makes good ports... Resident Evil 4 was an amazing port too, best version, without a doubt.

Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 is a great game. I'm certain that Call of Duty 4 is better, of course, don't get me wrong. But if you own nothing but a Wii and are sick of friend codes, MOH is the game for you.

No More Heroes is a great game. It certainly earns an 8.5 to 9.0 or so. But I'm just disappointed in Gamespot, because frankly, Twilight Princess and Metroid Prime 3 were far better in almost every way. No More Heroes had a brilliant control scheme, but so did Prime 3. Twilight Princess had the weakest graphics of the three because it was designed for Gamecube. But music, length, sheer entertainment, story... All were better in Zelda and Metroid. Each of the games earned a 9.0 to 9.5. But fortunately, it appears Gamespot is figuring things out again with the Super Mario Galaxy review, as said, and it winning Game of the Year. I'm not saying Twilight Princess necessarily deserved Game of the Year because I haven't beaten Okami or even played FFXII, Gears of War or Elder Scrolls. I'm saying it needs a minimum of a 9.0.

There's nothing wrong with innovation, with Nintendo's controls and all. In fact, I think it's necessary for the Wii to do that, because it expands outward toward non-gamers, making the gaming community bigger. We've forgotten how hard it is to get into video gaming nowadays. Look at a 360 or PS3 controller. Seriously, count the buttons.

Exactly.

Most of us started on consoles or handhelds with much fewer. I started on a Game Boy (control pad, A, B, start, select... oh yeah...) See what I mean?

I do wish the Wii could perform on par with the 360, but the Wii is still extraordinarily underestimated graphically. A Gamecube was more powerful than a PS2 last gen. And the Wii is twice as powerful as the Gamecube. So why do we keep getting PS2 ports? If anything we should be getting 360 games with the graphics notched down a degree. They've actually pulled out the graphics cards and compared, and the Wii's is very similar. Not as powerful, I'm not a total fanboy there, just similar.

Good graphics and controls are in Twilight Princess (port), Metroid Prime 3, Resident Evil 4 (port), Super Mario Galaxy, Okami (port), Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, No More Heroes (unique and good graphics), and Medal of Honor: Heroes 2.

Seriously look at Super Mario Galaxy's graphics. Do you really think any system from last gen could pull those off? No, they couldn't. Don't lie to yourself. It would have solid graphics on the 360, and you know it. And then add in the controls...

Still upcoming: Rock Band, Alone in the Dark, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers, Tales of Symphonia 2, The Conduit (graphics anyone?), Mad World, Sonic Unleashed, Fatal Frame, and Resident Evil 4 and Umbrella Chronicles each sold a million units, so Resident Evil 5 is on the way to Wii too.

I agree with everything your saying.

But with a direct hardware comparison

Wii: 729mhz Power PC (90nm), Ati hollywood (90nm) 243mhz , 88mb Ram shared with GPU

Gamecube: 485mhz power pc (180nm) , 162mhz Flipper GPU , 43mb system ram

Xbox: 733mhz celeron (180nm), Nvidia based graphics 233mhz, 64mb Ram

xbox 360: 3.2ghz TriCore Xenon, 500mhz Custom GPU ATI (90nm), 512mb Ram

The wii is twice the power of the gamecube but its still on par with the high end of last gen. So it makes more sense to port last gen than it would be to downgrade this gen as the hardware diffrence is just far too great.

I obviously cut the specs downt o the basics, we are not in the pc hardware forum where i would need to state how many ROP's, texture units and of course the diffrent architectures in all of them. But they are some raw specs for a comparison.

The reason SMG looks so good is becuase it keeps only a small ammount of the play area on screen at once. This means the CPU/GPU are put under a comparably low ammount of stress in comparison to if the whole level was rendered on screen at once. It was a very clever design by nintendo to get the most out of the system and i think it is a beautiful game, and so is Zelda.

where do u get these numbers anyway? jw.

But that's my point: Wii can pull off much, much more than what people think. Have you seen the stuff from The Conduit on IGN? It's pretty impressive, and not made by Nintendo. As far as I'm concerned, it too would look good on a 360. Which is what High Voltage keeps talking about, that the Wii can have good controls AND graphics.

Well, like I've read someone say : if you are not satisfied, sell your Wii (you'll find a whole lot of people willing to buy it).

But then again, I understand your frustration. I'm a lifetime Nintendo faithful but it is missing quality games. To the ones you named, I'd add Okami (which is also a game taken from another console).

I wouldn't say Nintendo has done miserably but they don't seem like they're making any effort to produce quality games.

I don't know about that. Nintendo at least makes quite a few quality titles. It's third parties that are being lame, and generally lazy. They figure they can make cash-ins on the Wii because it's selling as well as it is, and then they get mad that they're not getting money. That's because we actually see if the game is any good before buying it- which is why we're on Gamespot. :)

If they put in the effort, I for one would be more than happy to buy their games. Wii Sports, Wii Play and Wii Fit have half-baked graphics on purpose- to make the games charming, and to support the Miis. If they focused on making good graphics for them, I agree with Nintendo, they'd probably end up turning off new gamers because they'd assume the games are for hardcore gamers.

But otherwise, Nintendo does put in the effort with graphics on their system, and certainly in controls. Twilight Princess was beautiful artistically, if it was dated in sheer horsepower. That's because it was designed for Gamecube. Similarly, Resident Evil 4 was dated, but it still looked good because Capcom put in the effort when it arrived on Gamecube, and they used that same engine. Okami looked beautiful artistically too, but again lacks in sheer power. No More Heroes is sort of a blend of those, which is something I like about it- Suda 51 makes games how he wants to make them, and they turn out fun.

It's Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl that show the Wii's technical capabilities, and all of those are from Nintendo. Galaxy did kind of have a camera angle that made it easy on the system so the graphics in it, to me, are the best of those three. But Metroid Prime 3 shows off a whole ton of the background, and it looks beautiful. Brawl impressed me because of its high production values absolutely everywhere, despite the fact that I still don't have much fun in Smash single player. Mario Kart has pretty good graphics too, because they at least prove that the Wii can do much better than the PS2 or Gamecube could.

And now third parties are catching on- cash-ins aren't going to get them anywhere. It's the same as making cash-ins for PS2 was- it just doesn't sell because there are quality titles out there. We Ski sounds like it has the right idea, whether it was executed well or not (I don't have the game myself). The Conduit has the right idea because the graphics are being designed for Wii but look more like they came from a 360. Plus, it's getting control scheme ideas off of Metroid Prime 3 and Medal of Honor: Heroes 2, and both of those have some of the best controls on the system. Mad World is being made by guys who made Viewtiful Joe, Okami and Resident Evil 4. Do you really think it'll turn out bad? I think being artistic is another thing the Wii is strongly suited for, because the controls can affect the game so much. Mad World's black, white and red color scheme is that sort of artistic idea that should sell, by all rights. We just have to support it if it turns out right, which it's almost guaranteed to do.

I'm excited for the next Crystal Chronicles because it's not by the group who made the other Crystal Chronicles games. That group has good ideas, but bad execution, and hopefully this group will do better. It looks like they will. The next Tales of Symphonia is one to watch because its predecessor was so fun, and had an eighty hour story. Sonic Unleashed appears to have the right idea for both Sonic and the Wii- good graphics, more appealing to general audiences, and going back to Sonic's roots more than ever, which can only be a good thing. Sonic Team needs to start over in terms of bringing Sonic up to date, and I think they can easily succeed if they pay attention to making the games fun and the controls tight. Look at Sonic Adventure- great controls for Sonic, but why on Earth did they make us keep playing as Big and Amy?

I'm hoping Star Wars: The Force Unleashed has real effort put into the Wii version of the game, in terms of graphics, content and controls. Same with Rock Band. Actually, I kind of like the direction the developers are going with the Rock Band for Wii- it's more pick up and play for the wider audiences, and you don't have to have Wi-Fi to get more songs.

There's good stuff out there now, and there's more on the way. Especially if third parties are figuring things out, and I'm fairly certain at least a few of them are. Ubisoft needs to get a clue though. I was hoping they'd be a big supporter for Wii, but they've been doing cash-ins for the most part too. Watch Capcom and hopefully Namco, Sega, and Square Enix, and of course, the big N.