Are they even trying with graphics???

It kinda makes me mad how the dont really try and make good graphics not that I care but they are just being lazy now after seeing spiderman 3's graphics which were almost as bad as N64 graphics and I liked TP graphics and that was the full power of the GC not Wii, they could make it better they just dont take the time, but look at Metroid prime 3 which will most likely have the best wii graphics to date.HaloRules

:lol: I don't think SM3 was on par with N64. Twilight Princess was an excellent game and looked great for what it was. I was surprised that they didn't add in some gorgeous cutscenes. Even the intro was just normal gameplay. The prerendering (I believe that's the term) looked like regular gameplay. Even though when you see it you wish it's how the real game looked (referring to other games, not TP), it's nice to see what the console can pull off.

The only game thats out right now that looks like the developers tried making it look better than a gamecube game so far is Sonic and the Secret Rings.

By the way, Super Paper Mario wasnt supose to look high tech anything,... It's Super Paper Mario.  You really shouldn't complain.  It's got it's look right on.

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]Graphics make movies not games! I don't mind that a game is not in super dooper High def so long as it's fun to play!Turtodile

I agree with you 100% Nintendo games are about gameplay, not graphics. Im tired of people making topics like this over and over again.

And I'm tired of people who proudly state: "It's not about graphics, it's about gameplay." It IS about graphics too, damn it! Power does equal to better gameplay. Half Life 2 proves this. FEAR proves this. F-Zero GX proves this. The same idiots who keep defending Nintendo on gameplay>graphics are the same people who laughed at how graphically inferior the PS2 version of RE4 was to the GC version. Heck, the GC version scored higher because it just looked more polished - even though PS2 had more replay value.

Graphics and power do matter. And I'm hoping that once devs take control of the wiimote (pun not intended), it'll be a fantastic compensation to the raw power on other systems.

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]Graphics make movies not games! I don't mind that a game is not in super dooper High def so long as it's fun to play!tomarlyn

Then don't buy a High-Def TV, just have a normal TV and play in standard definition if it scares you. You'd still get amazing graphics and great, fun gameplay. I love my Wii but I can't wait to finally get my hands on a Mass Effect machine. 

Agree with everyting, but replace Mass Effect with Banjo Kazooie :P

[QUOTE="Turtodile"]

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]Graphics make movies not games! I don't mind that a game is not in super dooper High def so long as it's fun to play!Optusnet

I agree with you 100% Nintendo games are about gameplay, not graphics. Im tired of people making topics like this over and over again.

And I'm tired of people who proudly state: "It's not about graphics, it's about gameplay." It IS about graphics too, damn it! Power does equal to better gameplay. Half Life 2 proves this. FEAR proves this. F-Zero GX proves this. The same idiots who keep defending Nintendo on gameplay>graphics are the same people who laughed at how graphically inferior the PS2 version of RE4 was to the GC version. Heck, the GC version scored higher because it just looked more polished - even though PS2 had more replay value.

Graphics and power do matter. And I'm hoping that once devs take control of the wiimote (pun not intended), it'll be a fantastic compensation to the raw power on other systems.

everytime i play the ps3 or 360 i am amazed by the stunning beauty of the graphics ... then i come home to my wii and i wanna cry cuz the graphics are so dull red_smoke

Graphics add to the immersion of a game. I mean come on this console is meant to be more powerful that the xbox right? Some games don't need high def graphics and super realistic effects to be good though (Super Paper Mario) but even games like Super Paper Mario are nice looking games. When i see really crappy looking games i just think the dev's are not trying in the slightest and im offended that they got the nerve to churn out that kinda crap.

I didn't get a Wii for the graphics though, i have a pc for that. Nintendo is making nice looking games it's just 3rd party dev's that need to shape up and produce better games that look good for the power the wii has.

Doesn't seem like they're really trying, which is a bit of a shame. Graphics aren't everything, but neither is gameplay.monco59

On the button deat Sir, on the freakin' button. 

Graphics make movies not games! I don't mind that a game is not in super dooper High def so long as it's fun to play!JustWiicredible

As a movie fanatic, I have to disagree with you. 

Graphics aren't everything, but neither is gameplay.monco59

Oh no, because gameplay just ruins the fun. 

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]Graphics make movies not games! I don't mind that a game is not in super dooper High def so long as it's fun to play!romainsimoni

As a movie fanatic, I have to disagree with you. 

Let me qualify my soundbite. I was mearly pointing to the notion that you Watch graphics (who cares about ground shadows when your trying to race) but you PLAY games. i didn't mean that the film industry relies on CGI to make there films sell. I like French Existentalist cinema with no GCI as much as say 300 which has a lot of it.

They really should try more with the graphics.Leo_Rules

Only if the game needs it rather than building a new game around a graphics engine (gears of war.cough.cough) really it's not a neccesity.

I know it takes years before you reach full potential but when are the games going to start looking somewhat next gen??MrVigeant

It'll take as long as the developers stop making games for the ps2. They tend to get lazy with multiplatform games with wii and ps2 support and just give them about the same graphics even though the wii is capable of much more. 

[QUOTE="monco59"]

"Once"? On the contrary, the Wii is the first truly successful console from Nintendo since the SNES.

Hyper_Shado

Nintendo DS.

And didn't the GBA do all right too?

Yes it did, but I'm talking consoles here, not handhelds. Everyone knows Nintendo has owned the handheld market for as long as it has existed. 

[QUOTE="monco59"]Graphics aren't everything, but neither is gameplay.Xyrie

Oh no, because gameplay just ruins the fun. 

Way to twist his words.  He said that gameplay isnt everything, not that it's a bad thing. 

It's true. Gameplay isn't everything. Without graphics, all those RPGs wouldn't have atmosphere.

In my humble opinion, if the Wii supported 720p, everything would look better, and people would complain a lot less. I suppose it costs a bit more to add High-Def in though. 

I REALLY watched Ps3 for the first time at GameStop the other night and I'll admit, for a few seconds, I was like "D*mn, I wish the Wii could look like this." Twenty seconds later, I realized how boring the game looked as it's just ANOTHER racer so I moved on.

People who complain about graphics: What do you WANT?? Wii costs $250. It's less than half the price of Ps3. The system is MORE powerful than X-Box, give it time. Anyone who complains on graphics obviously hasn't looked at Galaxy, Brawl or Crystal Bearers. 90% of Wii's library NOW are Ps2 ports, give it time :P.

I REALLY watched Ps3 for the first time at GameStop the other night and I'll admit, for a few seconds, I was like "D*mn, I wish the Wii could look like this." Twenty seconds later, I realized how boring the game looked as it's just ANOTHER racer so I moved on.

People who complain about graphics: What do you WANT?? Wii costs $250. It's less than half the price of Ps3. The system is MORE powerful than X-Box, give it time. Anyone who complains on graphics obviously hasn't looked at Galaxy, Brawl or Crystal Bearers. 90% of Wii's library NOW are Ps2 ports, give it time :P.

Son_Of_Synyster

Since you mentioned price, this does bring something up. A core xbox 360, which theres nothing wrong with, is only 50$ more. Ok ok ok, for hd we have to factor in component prices eh? The 360s are about 40$ first party and wiis 30$ first party. Still not much more. I know somebodys gonna say, but the 20 gig hard drive is required! No its not. I've taken my hard drive off of mine, and the main difference is that games load slower. They play the same.

It's true. Gameplay isn't everything. Without graphics, all those RPGs wouldn't have atmosphere.

PandaSamurai

[QUOTE="Son_Of_Synyster"]

I REALLY watched Ps3 for the first time at GameStop the other night and I'll admit, for a few seconds, I was like "D*mn, I wish the Wii could look like this." Twenty seconds later, I realized how boring the game looked as it's just ANOTHER racer so I moved on.

People who complain about graphics: What do you WANT?? Wii costs $250. It's less than half the price of Ps3. The system is MORE powerful than X-Box, give it time. Anyone who complains on graphics obviously hasn't looked at Galaxy, Brawl or Crystal Bearers. 90% of Wii's library NOW are Ps2 ports, give it time :P.

hazuki

Since you mentioned price, this does bring something up. A core xbox 360, which theres nothing wrong with, is only 50$ more. Ok ok ok, for hd we have to factor in component prices eh? The 360s are about 40$ first party and wiis 30$ first party. Still not much more. I know somebodys gonna say, but the 20 gig hard drive is required! No its not. I've taken my hard drive off of mine, and the main difference is that games load slower. They play the same.

Don't forget the extra $50 for the game you'll need to buy with the 360, Wii Sports comes free with the Wii. So an extra $110, that's quite a bit IMO.

It's true. Gameplay isn't everything. Without graphics, all those RPGs wouldn't have atmosphere.

PandaSamurai

i guess mabye it's been a while for me, but i don't recall dragon warrior 1-4 (nes) having great graphics. the graphics sucked...the sound sucked...the only good thing about it was the engaging storyline and the addictive gameplay, which combined made each a classic gem.

but then again, i'm someone who got the Wii with the VC in mind, excited about all the classic games that i remember with crappy graphics...and stellar gameplay. 

[QUOTE="PandaSamurai"]

It's true. Gameplay isn't everything. Without graphics, all those RPGs wouldn't have atmosphere.

FFXIsAstyanax

He's playing videogames for a reason- because he (and most people) prefer images to a lack thereof.  This isn't a forum about pen-n-paper, so keep to videogames, where images are important.

[QUOTE="hazuki"][QUOTE="Son_Of_Synyster"]

I REALLY watched Ps3 for the first time at GameStop the other night and I'll admit, for a few seconds, I was like "D*mn, I wish the Wii could look like this." Twenty seconds later, I realized how boring the game looked as it's just ANOTHER racer so I moved on.

People who complain about graphics: What do you WANT?? Wii costs $250. It's less than half the price of Ps3. The system is MORE powerful than X-Box, give it time. Anyone who complains on graphics obviously hasn't looked at Galaxy, Brawl or Crystal Bearers. 90% of Wii's library NOW are Ps2 ports, give it time :P.

Morgario

Since you mentioned price, this does bring something up. A core xbox 360, which theres nothing wrong with, is only 50$ more. Ok ok ok, for hd we have to factor in component prices eh? The 360s are about 40$ first party and wiis 30$ first party. Still not much more. I know somebodys gonna say, but the 20 gig hard drive is required! No its not. I've taken my hard drive off of mine, and the main difference is that games load slower. They play the same.

Don't forget the extra $50 for the game you'll need to buy with the 360, Wii Sports comes free with the Wii. So an extra $110, that's quite a bit IMO.

Zelda TP is a GC game ported to the Wii.

Godfather is also a port with upgraded controls and minor graphical brushups.

Yeah Sonic's one of the first groundup Wii games so it has good graphics.

Super Paper Mario is also a GC port brought to the Wii with some controller upgrades.

Madden is a port with upgraded controls.

So there you go. Those games you mentioned apart from Sonic are ALL ports. We will soon see good graphics. And I thought these threads died a while ago.

Dark_Link142

What about the games that aren't ports? 

[QUOTE="PandaSamurai"]

It's true. Gameplay isn't everything. Without graphics, all those RPGs wouldn't have atmosphere.

FFXIsAstyanax

How is SPM a port its not out for GC I mean come on oh and Sonic is supposed to have the best graphics seen on the Wii the critics said [QUOTE="Dark_Link142"]

Zelda TP is a GC game ported to the Wii.

Godfather is also a port with upgraded controls and minor graphical brushups.

Yeah Sonic's one of the first groundup Wii games so it has good graphics.

Super Paper Mario is also a GC port brought to the Wii with some controller upgrades.

Madden is a port with upgraded controls.

So there you go. Those games you mentioned apart from Sonic are ALL ports. We will soon see good graphics. And I thought these threads died a while ago.

zachdragon

Super Paper Mario is indeed a GC original. Since the GC lifespan was pretty much over, they ported it to the Wii.

[QUOTE="Dark_Link142"]

Zelda TP is a GC game ported to the Wii.

Godfather is also a port with upgraded controls and minor graphical brushups.

Yeah Sonic's one of the first groundup Wii games so it has good graphics.

Super Paper Mario is also a GC port brought to the Wii with some controller upgrades.

Madden is a port with upgraded controls.

So there you go. Those games you mentioned apart from Sonic are ALL ports. We will soon see good graphics. And I thought these threads died a while ago.

f8al13

What about the games that aren't ports? 

• Mario Party 8-GC graphics because of developer Hudson
• Spiderman 3-Lame rushed movie license game. It's rare when a movie game turns out good.
• Manhunt 2- Decent graphics but only seem to be on Xbox level
• Wii Sports-Tech demo
• Pirates of the Carribean- Do I have to say anything about this?
• WarioWare- More artistic than technical
• SSX Blur- Nice graphics but some frame rate issues
• Tiger Woods-Still on GC level
• Elebits-Not very graphics heavy. Mostly artistic.
• Rayman-Pretty good graphics and I do believe it was built from the ground up for the Wii.
• Mario Strikers Charged- Looks nice but not pushing any limits.
• Excite Truck-Rushed for launch.

And I can't think of any other games at the moment that aren't ports like Godfather, Dragon Ball Z, Prince of Persia, Metal Slug Anthology, Need for Speed, and so on.

For everyone saying that it's gameplay over graphics i strongly disagree.  It's all about quality in every aspect of the game whether it be gameplay, graphics, sound, etc.  Yes i understand the wii isn't a powerhouse, but game developers have to start utilizing the wii's hardware a little better or else we're going to end up with nothing but collections of mini games  where  game makers can show all the quirky gameplay elements  then can come up with using the wii remote and ignore the other fundamental aspects of a game.a_manasd

Remember, it's not really about graphics - it's more about power. Physics creates its own immersion in the game and DOES make a game more fun. Shadowing and lighting features DOES enhance gameplay in stealth games. And who doesn't want A.I that can react in a whole number of versitile situations.

But you don't need top-notch A.I when programming Goombas, and physics isn't a great priorty for Zelda. And the art direction in some indie games are absolutely stunning. THIS is where Nintendo can help make up for those realistic, hollywood-type games. 

I'm wowed or impressed by graphics based on the genre or what the game goes for. I said 'wow' when I saw the Simpsons game running as it looked IDENITCAL to the show. And the plus is that Wii can handle those graphics. Geometry Wars is going to look identical to Wii compared to 360, and I was mesmorised and hypnotised by the colours, effects, water ripples and fantastic fireworks explosions on XBLA. I can't wait.

Galaxy is another awesome looking game. Who the hell wants a realistic looking Mario? And Super Paper Mario oozes with art and crisp details.

3rd parties need to make a way to give Wii visuals that extra flair - by using graphical tricks, a different art direction and taking their freaking time to craft what on its own merits will be an awesome looking Wii game. Dewey is an example of this.

[QUOTE="Optusnet"][QUOTE="Turtodile"]

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]Graphics make movies not games! I don't mind that a game is not in super dooper High def so long as it's fun to play!tomarlyn

I agree with you 100% Nintendo games are about gameplay, not graphics. Im tired of people making topics like this over and over again.

And I'm tired of people who proudly state: "It's not about graphics, it's about gameplay." It IS about graphics too, damn it! Power does equal to better gameplay. Half Life 2 proves this. FEAR proves this. F-Zero GX proves this. The same idiots who keep defending Nintendo on gameplay>graphics are the same people who laughed at how graphically inferior the PS2 version of RE4 was to the GC version. Heck, the GC version scored higher because it just looked more polished - even though PS2 had more replay value.

Graphics and power do matter. And I'm hoping that once devs take control of the wiimote (pun not intended), it'll be a fantastic compensation to the raw power on other systems.

Well actually no. I'm not talking about playing games for sharpness over component cables. I would be a hypocrite if i said that. What i mean is that developers putting too much time on cutscenes,ground shadows,that damn annoying sun blur effect and not over truly next gen attributes like physics ( Little big planet is a perfect example) and being innovative. I like games that look good as much as the next guy but how many flashy games with shallow, one dimensional Gameplay (GOW, cough.)

[QUOTE="Optusnet"][QUOTE="Turtodile"]

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]Graphics make movies not games! I don't mind that a game is not in super dooper High def so long as it's fun to play!tomarlyn

I agree with you 100% Nintendo games are about gameplay, not graphics. Im tired of people making topics like this over and over again.

And I'm tired of people who proudly state: "It's not about graphics, it's about gameplay." It IS about graphics too, damn it! Power does equal to better gameplay. Half Life 2 proves this. FEAR proves this. F-Zero GX proves this. The same idiots who keep defending Nintendo on gameplay>graphics are the same people who laughed at how graphically inferior the PS2 version of RE4 was to the GC version. Heck, the GC version scored higher because it just looked more polished - even though PS2 had more replay value.

Graphics and power do matter. And I'm hoping that once devs take control of the wiimote (pun not intended), it'll be a fantastic compensation to the raw power on other systems.

Well actually no. I'm not talking about playing games for sharpness over component cables. I would be a hypocrite if i said that. What i mean is that developers putting too much time on cutscenes,ground shadows,that damn annoying sun blur effect and not over truly next gen attributes like physics ( Little big planet is a perfect example) and being innovative. I like games that look good as much as the next guy but how many flashy games with shallow, one dimensional Gameplay (GOW, cough.)

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="Optusnet"][QUOTE="Turtodile"]

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]Graphics make movies not games! I don't mind that a game is not in super dooper High def so long as it's fun to play!JustWiicredible

I agree with you 100% Nintendo games are about gameplay, not graphics. Im tired of people making topics like this over and over again.

And I'm tired of people who proudly state: "It's not about graphics, it's about gameplay." It IS about graphics too, damn it! Power does equal to better gameplay. Half Life 2 proves this. FEAR proves this. F-Zero GX proves this. The same idiots who keep defending Nintendo on gameplay>graphics are the same people who laughed at how graphically inferior the PS2 version of RE4 was to the GC version. Heck, the GC version scored higher because it just looked more polished - even though PS2 had more replay value.

Graphics and power do matter. And I'm hoping that once devs take control of the wiimote (pun not intended), it'll be a fantastic compensation to the raw power on other systems.

Well actually no. I'm not talking about playing games for sharpness over component cables. I would be a hypocrite if i said that. What i mean is that developers putting too much time on cutscenes,ground shadows,that damn annoying sun blur effect and not over truly next gen attributes like physics ( Little big planet is a perfect example) and being innovative. I like games that look good as much as the next guy but how many flashy games with shallow, one dimensional Gameplay (GOW, cough.)

Gears is an action game and its extremely fun, its not just graphics (amazing as they are), what do you expect? Its not even as one dimensional as Excite Truck, Heatseeker or COD 3 for instance which aren't as good or as fun to begin with. I actually own and enjoy those three Wii games I mentioned but I just don't agree with your reasoning at all.

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="Optusnet"][QUOTE="Turtodile"]

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]Graphics make movies not games! I don't mind that a game is not in super dooper High def so long as it's fun to play!tomarlyn

I agree with you 100% Nintendo games are about gameplay, not graphics. Im tired of people making topics like this over and over again.

And I'm tired of people who proudly state: "It's not about graphics, it's about gameplay." It IS about graphics too, damn it! Power does equal to better gameplay. Half Life 2 proves this. FEAR proves this. F-Zero GX proves this. The same idiots who keep defending Nintendo on gameplay>graphics are the same people who laughed at how graphically inferior the PS2 version of RE4 was to the GC version. Heck, the GC version scored higher because it just looked more polished - even though PS2 had more replay value.

Graphics and power do matter. And I'm hoping that once devs take control of the wiimote (pun not intended), it'll be a fantastic compensation to the raw power on other systems.

Well actually no. I'm not talking about playing games for sharpness over component cables. I would be a hypocrite if i said that. What i mean is that developers putting too much time on cutscenes,ground shadows,that damn annoying sun blur effect and not over truly next gen attributes like physics ( Little big planet is a perfect example) and being innovative. I like games that look good as much as the next guy but how many flashy games with shallow, one dimensional Gameplay (GOW, cough.)

Gears is an action game and its extremely fun, its not just graphics (amazing as they are), what do you expect? Its not even as one dimensional as Excite Truck, Heatseeker or COD 3 for instance which aren't as good or as fun to begin with. I actually own and enjoy those three Wii games I mentioned but I just don't agree with your reasoning at all.

GOW is just the same old hide and shoot gameplay seen in many many games before (Rainbow six,Kill.switch) The other games you describe i know aren't good example of Gameplay > graphics. What if Mario 64 game out now with N64 graphics would anyone buy it? Yes because of the great gameplay involved.

Developers shouldn't get hung up over making every wall,floor and character photorealistic and start making games with great gameplay. Graphics can be cool and stylish like Okami,Exit,Feel the magic without having to pump the £££££ into graphics engines. Innovative games: Trauma centre,Alex wright,Cooking moma,that project treasure game from capcom etc would Sonysoft have ever thought of such games? No because they spend to much £££ on pushing 1080p down our throat without thinkinh where can i take games next?

P.S sorry for the double post. Rubbish computer:(

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="JustWiicredible"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="Optusnet"][QUOTE="Turtodile"]

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]Graphics make movies not games! I don't mind that a game is not in super dooper High def so long as it's fun to play!JustWiicredible

I agree with you 100% Nintendo games are about gameplay, not graphics. Im tired of people making topics like this over and over again.

And I'm tired of people who proudly state: "It's not about graphics, it's about gameplay." It IS about graphics too, damn it! Power does equal to better gameplay. Half Life 2 proves this. FEAR proves this. F-Zero GX proves this. The same idiots who keep defending Nintendo on gameplay>graphics are the same people who laughed at how graphically inferior the PS2 version of RE4 was to the GC version. Heck, the GC version scored higher because it just looked more polished - even though PS2 had more replay value.

Graphics and power do matter. And I'm hoping that once devs take control of the wiimote (pun not intended), it'll be a fantastic compensation to the raw power on other systems.

Well actually no. I'm not talking about playing games for sharpness over component cables. I would be a hypocrite if i said that. What i mean is that developers putting too much time on cutscenes,ground shadows,that damn annoying sun blur effect and not over truly next gen attributes like physics ( Little big planet is a perfect example) and being innovative. I like games that look good as much as the next guy but how many flashy games with shallow, one dimensional Gameplay (GOW, cough.)

Gears is an action game and its extremely fun, its not just graphics (amazing as they are), what do you expect? Its not even as one dimensional as Excite Truck, Heatseeker or COD 3 for instance which aren't as good or as fun to begin with. I actually own and enjoy those three Wii games I mentioned but I just don't agree with your reasoning at all.

GOW is just the same old hide and shoot gameplay seen in many many games before (Rainbow six,Kill.switch) The other games you describe i know aren't good example of Gameplay > graphics. What if Mario 64 game out now with N64 graphics would anyone buy it? Yes because of the great gameplay involved.

Developers shouldn't get hung up over making every wall,floor and character photorealistic and start making games with great gameplay. Graphics can be cool and stylish like Okami,Exit,Feel the magic without having to pump the £££££ into graphics engines. Innovative games: Trauma centre,Alex wright,Cooking moma,that project treasure game from capcom etc would Sonysoft have ever thought of such games? No because they spend to much £££ on pushing 1080p down our throat without thinkinh where can i take games next?

P.S sorry for the double post. Rubbish computer:(

Hmm, but GOW does have great gameplay, whether its recycled from various sources or not (it also improves those formulaes at the same time). If you've got a system as powerful as the 360 to work with of course you're going to try and get the most from it, gamers like to see improvements in both visuals and gameplay over last-gen.

I'm a big gamer, I like good games no-matter what the platform is or what controller it uses. Its not just eye candy either because titles such as Mass Effect, Bioshock and Oblivion are my dream games for gaming reasons. Take away the visuals and you still have my dream games that are still only possible on advanced hardware (these are just three examples too, my point being its not just graphics its capable of pushing out).

If you enjoyed RE 4 for its visuals and great gameplay made possible by the Cube's processing power then that would make you a hypocrite, especially if you continue to use the Wii's backwards compatibility. Like I've said before if High Def resolution scares you or you don't want it then don't buy a High Def TV, just experience the game in Standard Definition. You'd still get better than last-gen graphics and great gameplay. HD and special visual effects are two different things too, you don't like special effects? I wouldn't recommend Star Wars to you :P

Good graphics and normal controls don't equal bad gaming like a curse as you seem to think thats all I'm saying, its an urban myth constructed by Nintendo fanboys in places like this. Wii does its own thing and its cool, its not suddenly the righteous and better way to game (except for non-gamers which I couldn't care less about). Innovation isn't everything, gameplay isn't everything and graphics aren't everything on their own, its only good games at the end of the day that matters.

For the record this post isn't even in reference to the Wii, I'm addressing the crazy talk that quality presentation and great gameplay with a normal controller isn't suddenly a dirty thing. This insults me as a gamer.

Oh don't worry its not your computer either I'm experiencing glitchspot too :) :)

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="JustWiicredible"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="Optusnet"][QUOTE="Turtodile"]

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]Graphics make movies not games! I don't mind that a game is not in super dooper High def so long as it's fun to play!tomarlyn

I agree with you 100% Nintendo games are about gameplay, not graphics. Im tired of people making topics like this over and over again.

And I'm tired of people who proudly state: "It's not about graphics, it's about gameplay." It IS about graphics too, damn it! Power does equal to better gameplay. Half Life 2 proves this. FEAR proves this. F-Zero GX proves this. The same idiots who keep defending Nintendo on gameplay>graphics are the same people who laughed at how graphically inferior the PS2 version of RE4 was to the GC version. Heck, the GC version scored higher because it just looked more polished - even though PS2 had more replay value.

Graphics and power do matter. And I'm hoping that once devs take control of the wiimote (pun not intended), it'll be a fantastic compensation to the raw power on other systems.

Well actually no. I'm not talking about playing games for sharpness over component cables. I would be a hypocrite if i said that. What i mean is that developers putting too much time on cutscenes,ground shadows,that damn annoying sun blur effect and not over truly next gen attributes like physics ( Little big planet is a perfect example) and being innovative. I like games that look good as much as the next guy but how many flashy games with shallow, one dimensional Gameplay (GOW, cough.)

Gears is an action game and its extremely fun, its not just graphics (amazing as they are), what do you expect? Its not even as one dimensional as Excite Truck, Heatseeker or COD 3 for instance which aren't as good or as fun to begin with. I actually own and enjoy those three Wii games I mentioned but I just don't agree with your reasoning at all.

GOW is just the same old hide and shoot gameplay seen in many many games before (Rainbow six,Kill.switch) The other games you describe i know aren't good example of Gameplay > graphics. What if Mario 64 game out now with N64 graphics would anyone buy it? Yes because of the great gameplay involved.

Developers shouldn't get hung up over making every wall,floor and character photorealistic and start making games with great gameplay. Graphics can be cool and stylish like Okami,Exit,Feel the magic without having to pump the £££££ into graphics engines. Innovative games: Trauma centre,Alex wright,Cooking moma,that project treasure game from capcom etc would Sonysoft have ever thought of such games? No because they spend to much £££ on pushing 1080p down our throat without thinkinh where can i take games next?

P.S sorry for the double post. Rubbish computer:(

Hmm, but GOW does have great gameplay, whether its recycled from various sources or not (it also improves those formulaes at the same time). If you've got a system as powerful as the 360 to work with of course you're going to try and get the most from it, gamers like to see improvements in both visuals and gameplay over last-gen.

I'm a big gamer, I like good games no-matter what the platform is or what controller it uses. Its not just eye candy either because titles such as Mass Effect, Bioshock and Oblivion are my dream games for gaming reasons. Take away the visuals and you still have my dream games that are still only possible on advanced hardware (these are just three examples too, my point being its not just graphics its capable of pushing out).

If you enjoyed RE 4 for its visuals and great gameplay made possible by the Cube's processing power then that would make you a hypocrite, especially if you continue to use the Wii's backwards compatibility. Like I've said before if High Def resolution scares you or you don't want it then don't buy a High Def TV, just experience the game in Standard Definition. You'd still get better than last-gen graphics and great gameplay. HD and special visual effects are two different things too, you don't like special effects? I wouldn't recommend Star Wars to you :P

Good graphics and normal controls don't equal bad gaming like a curse as you seem to think thats all I'm saying, its an urban myth constructed by Nintendo fanboys in places like this. Wii does its own thing and its cool, its not suddenly the righteous and better way to game (except for non-gamers which I couldn't care less about). Innovation isn't everything, gameplay isn't everything and graphics aren't everything on their own, its only good games at the end of the day that matters.

For the record this post isn't even in reference to the Wii, I'm addressing the crazy talk that quality presentation and great gameplay with a normal controller isn't suddenly a dirty thing. This insults me as a gamer.

Oh don't worry its not your computer either I'm experiencing glitchspot too :) :)

Yes while it's true that we appericate good graphics if it enchances the gaming activity. Oblivion is a good example of where this happens. What i am trying to put across if that most developers are getting lazy in the fact that they dress up the same old game in fancy new clothes. Motorstorm is a case in point. The game is just a way of showing of the graphics of the pS3 and when you actually PLAY the game it's just any average racer i'll rather play excite truck anyday because the experience of playing the game is new (Wiimote) and it's also fun.

Just to be clear i'm not against make the existing graphics of the game looking as good as they can using compontent and Hi def Tv's but what i don't want is that developers (more for the ps3) feeling they have to use this technology is every context.

 I think that developers use improved graphics and physics as an mask for advancement. The Need for speed series games vary little from when it first started. The graphics and physics have got better, they have added FMV but what have they done to improve the game experience, very little. This is the same in most Racers,adventures and FPS. this is not advancement. The Wii offers true advancement as developers cant' use better FX as a way to sell there Pap to the unsuspecting marks out there as it's not possible. They now are forced to be creative and think what ways can i take my franchise or make a cool game that uses the Wiimote. Mario galaxy shows this kind of real advancement.

I wouldn't mind if the graphics of the Wii and future systems never get past the GC level as it's not all as you say about that. If the games are still creative. If technology improves the physics of a game so a ball bounces better or Better processing power to make games more complex That's Great but all i've seen since Sonysoft entered the arena is graphics getting better but little true advancement/innovation.

Sidenote. Littlebigplanet i think is the truly next gen game as the physics play out incredibily well (graphics are neat but it's not the main point in the game) just as Say metroid prime 3 using the Wiimote to immerse your self in the game

In short Graphics are fine when used well and artistically but when improvement in other areas suffer like creativity and design then it's the gamer that loses out the most. Innovation and evolution is everything as they are what keeps games fresh and fun to play. When you get to my age you'll realise how samey games get after a while.

Zelda TP is a GC game ported to the Wii.

Godfather is also a port with upgraded controls and minor graphical brushups.

Yeah Sonic's one of the first groundup Wii games so it has good graphics.

Super Paper Mario is also a GC port brought to the Wii with some controller upgrades.

Madden is a port with upgraded controls.

So there you go. Those games you mentioned apart from Sonic are ALL ports. We will soon see good graphics. And I thought these threads died a while ago.

Dark_Link142

He speaks the truth. All the games you've busted on are all ports. Zelda, SPM, and Godfather are all rushed ports that only took less than a year to port. you cant dock these games for that. Sonic is one of the first ground up titles and that is why you see better graphics. look at videos of SPM, MP3, and SSBB and you will see what the wii is capable of. SMG looks so spectacular because the devs took the time to incorporate specular highlighting, bump mapping, normal mapping, shaders, etc. the games you have listed do not because they are all rushed. if devs put time into there games they can make them actually look good for the wii.