Dead Space is horrible, I'm glad nobody bought it

So I decided to give it a rent after the ranting and raving of reviewers saying that this was a genuine effort and the best lightgun game on the system. For once, I'm going to have to agree with the developers: this isn't a lightgun game, it is indeed a first person guided experience. As a lightgun game, this game fails HORRIBLY, is complete filth, and doesn't deserve the sub-10k sales it got. Let me explain:

Lightgun games are about instant-gratification. Extraction does not provide this. I had to sit through long, boring, and worst of all, UNSKIPPABLE cutscenes not just at the beginning of the game, but interspersed into each and every level. For minutes at a time (and for those of you who actually enjoy lightgun games, minutes at a time = forever), I have to sit through the developers trying to be "atmospheric" and "scary", when in reality I'm pissed off because I'm wondering why I rented a game that isn't as interested in letting me play it as it is in letting me watch it.

Second, the head-bobbing camera. Oh god, somebody should be fired over this. Disallowing the player to instantly get into the action is one thing. Disrupting the player from playing the game properly because of a piss-poor camera in a genre which is known for having a COMPLETELY SCRIPTED CAMERA IN WHICH THE DEVELOPER KNOWS WHAT THE CAMERA WILL DO AT ALL TIMES is so far past "stupid" and into "worse than the last presidential administration at decision-making". I understand what they were going for, but let me make this perfectly clear: you CANNOT mimick a real-world head-bob in game. Do this: right now, while reading this, bob your head around as if you were the camera in this game. Notice something? Your head is moving around, but your eyes are focused on the text in this paragraph, which is why head-bobbing doesn't affect your ability to zero-in on a target in real-life. In game, the camera is mimicking your head, but NOT YOUR EYES, which is why it's near-impossible to zero-in on many of the creatures you wish to shoot. This is a fundamental design flaw that never should have made it past R&D.

Third, lightgun games are about replayability. You go through the levels multiple times to get the best score, to discover a new path, or to get missed items. Extraction discourages this by FORCING you to redo all of the cutscenes and tutorials because they wanted to put you in the moment.

Like I said, Extraction is a fantastic first-person guided experience. It probably would've been a decent movie. But as a lightgun game, which is the genre it was attempting to be, it fails HORRENDOUSLY. It's simply just no fun to play. I originally said I was going to buy this game used because I didn't like the direction that EA was taking it, but now I'm happy that I didn't waste my cash.

Like I said, Extraction is a fantastic first-person guided experience.Dingerious

"I'm going to have to agree with the developers: this isn't a lightgun game, it is indeed a first person guided experience."

But then you say:

"But as a lightgun game, which is the genre it was attempting to be, it fails HORRENDOUSLY."

So which is it?

It's not a light-gun game at all, the Wii doesn't rely on the light-gun technology, it relies on the signals the sensor picks up from the position of the Wii controller.uyiop0t

So I decided to give it a rent after the ranting and raving of reviewers saying that this was a genuine effort and the best lightgun game on the system. For once, I'm going to have to agree with the developers: this isn't a lightgun game, it is indeed a first person guided experience. As a lightgun game, this game fails HORRIBLY, is complete filth, and doesn't deserve the sub-10k sales it got. Let me explain:

Lightgun games are about instant-gratification. Extraction does not provide this. I had to sit through long, boring, and worst of all, UNSKIPPABLE cutscenes not just at the beginning of the game, but interspersed into each and every level. For minutes at a time (and for those of you who actually enjoy lightgun games, minutes at a time = forever), I have to sit through the developers trying to be "atmospheric" and "scary", when in reality I'm pissed off because I'm wondering why I rented a game that isn't as interested in letting me play it as it is in letting me watch it.

Second, the head-bobbing camera. Oh god, somebody should be fired over this. Disallowing the player to instantly get into the action is one thing. Disrupting the player from playing the game properly because of a piss-poor camera in a genre which is known for having a COMPLETELY SCRIPTED CAMERA IN WHICH THE DEVELOPER KNOWS WHAT THE CAMERA WILL DO AT ALL TIMES is so far past "stupid" and into "worse than the last presidential administration at decision-making". I understand what they were going for, but let me make this perfectly clear: you CANNOT mimick a real-world head-bob in game. Do this: right now, while reading this, bob your head around as if you were the camera in this game. Notice something? Your head is moving around, but your eyes are focused on the text in this paragraph, which is why head-bobbing doesn't affect your ability to zero-in on a target in real-life. In game, the camera is mimicking your head, but NOT YOUR EYES, which is why it's near-impossible to zero-in on many of the creatures you wish to shoot. This is a fundamental design flaw that never should have made it past R&D.

Third, lightgun games are about replayability. You go through the levels multiple times to get the best score, to discover a new path, or to get missed items. Extraction discourages this by FORCING you to redo all of the cutscenes and tutorials because they wanted to put you in the moment.

Like I said, Extraction is a fantastic first-person guided experience. It probably would've been a decent movie. But as a lightgun game, which is the genre it was attempting to be, it fails HORRENDOUSLY. It's simply just no fun to play. I originally said I was going to buy this game used because I didn't like the direction that EA was taking it, but now I'm happy that I didn't waste my cash.

Dingerious

Your blog page says hi.

[QUOTE="Dingerious"]Like I said, Extraction is a fantastic first-person guided experience.JordanElek

"I'm going to have to agree with the developers: this isn't a lightgun game, it is indeed a first person guided experience."

But then you say:

"But as a lightgun game, which is the genre it was attempting to be, it fails HORRENDOUSLY."

So which is it?

Your blog page says hi.

Khadaj32

You're on a videogame discussion forum. This is a thread discussing a videogame. Amazing, I know.

[QUOTE="Khadaj32"]

Your blog page says hi.

Dingerious

You're on a videogame discussion forum. This is a thread discussing a videogame. Amazing, I know.

But even more amazing is the actual discussion part. You brought up a game, bashed it with your point of view and opinion, and ended it there. Where was the opening to discussion? There was no question, no queries about the intention of the thread, just a very basic few paragraphs explaining your opinions. That sounds like blog material to me. I mean, we're given space to blog for a reason, to get such things off of our chest, or praise a game with a slew of opinions. And the only replies you got except mine were not really discussing the game as were they arguing what you said in your mis-posted blog. Then when challenged on a point, you simply counter with "It's a bad game." That's some heavy discussion, there.

Seriously, if we all just made a thread concerning our personal opinion and semi-review of a recent game we played, we'd crash the boards.

I actually enjoyed your rant and I think you expressed yourself quite well and made some very valid point, but 99% of the people on this forum will not bother reading past the first line and tell you to write a blog as there is not really a lot to discuss. To be honest, light gun games belong in the arcade, noy the home.

It was a bad idea and in light of this:

IGN: You've heard the fans clamoring on about it. Is it technically possible to port the original Dead Space to Wii, and would you ever want to do it from a creative, storytelling standpoint?

Steve: I think it is very possible to port the original game. The biggest thing would be making the right compromises and having enough time to do justice to the original.

http://www.gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=108735

I don't get your rant at all.

Sure it's not a good light-gun game but as you yourself said it is a good guided FPS shooter so whats with the hate?

The game did what it was supposed to do.

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]

[QUOTE="Dingerious"]Like I said, Extraction is a fantastic first-person guided experience.Dingerious

"I'm going to have to agree with the developers: this isn't a lightgun game, it is indeed a first person guided experience."

But then you say:

"But as a lightgun game, which is the genre it was attempting to be, it fails HORRENDOUSLY."

So which is it?

[QUOTE="Dingerious"]

[QUOTE="Khadaj32"]

Your blog page says hi.

Khadaj32

You're on a videogame discussion forum. This is a thread discussing a videogame. Amazing, I know.

But even more amazing is the actual discussion part. You brought up a game, bashed it with your point of view and opinion, and ended it there. Where was the opening to discussion? There was no question, no queries about the intention of the thread, just a very basic few paragraphs explaining your opinions. That sounds like blog material to me. I mean, we're given space to blog for a reason, to get such things off of our chest, or praise a game with a slew of opinions. And the only replies you got except mine were not really discussing the game as were they arguing what you said in your mis-posted blog. Then when challenged on a point, you simply counter with "It's a bad game." That's some heavy discussion, there.

Seriously, if we all just made a thread concerning our personal opinion and semi-review of a recent game we played, we'd crash the boards.

The opening to the discussion was implied by the nature of his post. Your complaints make it sound like all he had to do was tack on a superficial "What do you all think?" at the end of the post and viola! a forum-approved post! He talked about the game in a technical way and discussed what he saw as its merits and flaws, rarely making it personal outside of his opinions on the value of certain aspects, which is what these forums are all about - opinions. To me, a blog post is "I slipped on some ice on the way to Gamestop!" or "I just got my first star on Mario Galaxy!" because they are personal stories, not opinions on matters than can really be shared and discussed.

To the OP, I haven't played the game, but your reasons for dissing it are undermined by your own admissions that the game works exactly as it was meant to, which makes me question your judgment. I also don't understand why you decided to rant about the qualities of light gun games after saying yourself that this wasn't a light gun game.

Although, the part about the head-bobbing was something I've never considered. It's a good point and it probably would bother me in a game.

I don't get your rant at all.

Sure it's not a good light-gun game but as you yourself said it is a good guided FPS shooter so whats with the hate?

The game did what it was supposed to do.

JLF1

Good guided FPS shooter? I said nothing of the sort. I said it was a good guided first-person EXPERIENCE (i.e., the story was well-done, the voice work was good, etc.). As part of the lightgun genre, the game is pure crap, however.Dingerious

It's not a light-gun game though.

Is that so? I were planning to buy it.

This game isn't a light gun game, get over it. I really like Dead Space Extraction, though I wish it had more campaigns.

People who are fans of light-gun games hate on DSE for not being like any other light-gun games and innovating. People who aren't fans of light-gun games hate on DSE for being a light-gun game. You can't win for losing.clicketyclick

There's nothing innovative about making a game more cinematic. Developers have been making games cinematic since the PS1. If you want to innovate in the lightgun genre, use this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

For those of you who are saying it's not a lightgun game, just stop. It's the same type of game as house of the dead, time crisis, or virtua cop, only not as good. I agree with the developers saying it's a "first-person guided experience" because as the lightgun game it is, it fails miserably.

Maybe you should've read the whole of those reviews and not just the scores because they pretty much all explain that the game isn't a lightgun game, that's it's more like a horror movie.bobbetybob

More like a horror movie? All the more reason for it to flop. I can get high-quality horror movies the day they come out on blue-ray for $20-$25 cheaper than Extraction cost when it came out. That just adds to my general distaste for this game.

Not one person bought this game?

Wow, thanks for the info...?

I agree with the developers saying it's a "first-person guided experience" because as the lightgun game it is, it fails miserably.Dingerious

[QUOTE="Dingerious"]I agree with the developers saying it's a "first-person guided experience" because as the lightgun game it is, it fails miserably.JordanElek

I said it was a good guided first-person EXPERIENCE (i.e., the story was well-done, the voice work was good, etc.). Dingerious

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]Read that again, because it makes NO sense. It's like saying that you agree with Nintendo that Metroid Prime is a first-person adventure, but it fails as the first-person shooter that it really is. It's either one or the other, regardless of what you wanted it to be or expected it to be.

WhaDIPuN

I said it was a good guided first-person EXPERIENCE (i.e., the story was well-done, the voice work was good, etc.). Dingerious

"Extraction is a fantastic first person guided experience."

Sounds like success.

@JordanElek (since the quoting was pretty much a disaster):

I think what the TC is saying is that while he thinks the cinematic portions of the game are well done from the first person perspective and has good production values, the core gameplay, which is similar to that of a rail-shooter, falls short in comparison to an average rail-shooting game, with part of that having to do with the fact that the game puts too much focus on the cinematic experience. Having not played the game, I can neither confirm nor deny this, but I do believe that's what was trying to be pointed out.

@JordanElek (since the quoting was pretty much a disaster):

I think what the TC is saying is that while he thinks the cinematic portions of the game are well done from the first person perspective and has good production values, the core gameplay, which is similar to that of a rail-shooter, falls short in comparison to an average rail-shooting game, with part of that having to do with the fact that the game puts too much focus on the cinematic experience. Having not played the game, I can neither confirm nor deny this, but I do believe that's what was trying to be pointed out.

Madmangamer364

I like these comparisons, though. I talked to a guy who went to see Avatar and was completely confused for half the movie because he didn't see the connection to the animated TV series. What a terrible movie. (But that's not even a good comparison because the guy didn't know before hand that there was no connection to the Avatar series...)

I appreciate everyone who understands my point of view. It's not difficult when you try to understand the legitimate and overbearing design flaws that I've pointed out in the game.

Some of you seem to be having issues distinguishing between Dead Space as a lightgun game (re: gameplay), and Dead Space as a first-person guided experience (re: production values, voicework, etc.).

As a first-person guided experience, it's done very well. As a lightgun game, it's horrendously bad and I'm happy it did poorly.

Some of you are asking "but Dinger, why oh why would you buy this when the developer told you it was something else?"

Two things: first, I did not buy it (thank god). I rented it. Second, I wanted to enjoy this game, and had it not been for the guided experience part of dead space, I very well would have. I wouldn't be ranting and raving about it, mind you, but you wouldn't see this thread.

Yes, the guided experience part absolutely DESTROYS whatever competent gameplay EA created for this title.

Some of you are asking "well if it's the excellent first person guided experience that EA said it was, why are you complaining?"

That's simple: the cinematic quality of Dead Space means absolutely NOTHING when it destroys the game it's trying to compliment. I don't know about you guys, but I bought my Wii so that I could play games, not watch cinematic renderings that want to be movies.

@JordanElek (since the quoting was pretty much a disaster):

I think what the TC is saying is that while he thinks the cinematic portions of the game are well done from the first person perspective and has good production values, the core gameplay, which is similar to that of a rail-shooter, falls short in comparison to an average rail-shooting game, with part of that having to do with the fact that the game puts too much focus on the cinematic experience. Having not played the game, I can neither confirm nor deny this, but I do believe that's what was trying to be pointed out.

Madmangamer364

You got it down pat, my good friend.

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

@JordanElek (since the quoting was pretty much a disaster):

I think what the TC is saying is that while he thinks the cinematic portions of the game are well done from the first person perspective and has good production values, the core gameplay, which is similar to that of a rail-shooter, falls short in comparison to an average rail-shooting game, with part of that having to do with the fact that the game puts too much focus on the cinematic experience. Having not played the game, I can neither confirm nor deny this, but I do believe that's what was trying to be pointed out.

JordanElek

I like these comparisons, though. I talked to a guy who went to see Avatar and was completely confused for half the movie because he didn't see the connection to the animated TV series. What a terrible movie. (But that's not even a good comparison because the guy didn't know before hand that there was no connection to the Avatar series...)

I'm not saying DSE tries to be like the average rail-shooter, but because its core gameplay mechanics is closer to a rail-shooter than anything else, it's only fair that this is what it's being compared to. I think it's different from the comparison you make about Gran Turismo because while one may not like the fact that items or speed boosts aren't involved, the racing game in its purest form isn't being complained about. I think it would be a better comparison to say that the TC complimented DSE's production values and atmosphere with someone complimenting a game like Mario Kart for its items, but that still didn't make up for the fact that the shooting experience, regardless of what genre you wish to put it in, was underwhelming to the TC. I could see your point easier if he was the only person calling this game a "rail-shooter," but isn't this how the majority of people see the game? It also would be one thing if the TC was the only one saying this, but I've heard the complaints from others who have played the game, as well.

We're creatures who sometimes become victims to our expectations and what we might think is the reality of a certain thing. The guy you speak of wouldn't be the first guy who was confused about the Avatar movie and its non-existant relationship with the animated series, so that doesn't really surprise me. :P Still, I don't know if that's the same thing as saying a game that plays very much like a rail-shooter isn't as good as other rail-shooters one might have played.

That's simple: the cinematic quality of Dead Space means absolutely NOTHING when it destroys the game it's trying to compliment.Dingerious

There are other outlets for the traditional rail-shooter genre. Extraction was a nice departure, but of course not everyone will enjoy it. Doesn't make it a bad game.

Still, I don't know if that's the same thing as saying a game that plays very much like a rail-shooter isn't as good as other rail-shooters one might have played.Madmangamer364

I understand his point now, though, and that was my only goal in responding to this thread. There's no arguing beyond "this is what I think, and it's different from what you think" at this point.

What I'm getting out of this is that Dead Space: Extraction delivered on what it was supposed to be well, but you don't want what it is.

So... I'm not really sure what can be said about that.

What I'm getting out of this is that Dead Space: Extraction delivered on what it was supposed to be well,

GabuEx

What I'm getting out of this is that Dead Space: Extraction is a terrible game that excelled brilliantly in every area, and I'm glad nobody bought it, because they would have thoroughly enjoyed it, that's how terrible it is.

Yeah...I'm definitely not following this thread...:|

Is that so? I were planning to buy it.

kikitube

For those of you who are saying it's not a lightgun game, just stop. Dingerious

I'm going to have to agree with the developers: this isn't a lightgun gameDingerious

Awesome Review dude.

but that's not what the forum is for....is it?

I haven't played the game yet, so I can't really state my own opinion of it, but based on what I know of the game, I completely agree with the Metroid Prime example that was used in this thread earlier. Metroid Prime used the same kind of mechanics that are found in First Person Shooters, and anybody who hasn't played the game, or hasn't really read into it, might think it was a FPS if they saw screenshots or some movies of the game. However, that's not what Metroid is trying to be. It's an adventure game, focused on exploration, and mixing together puzzle, platforming, and yes, FPS elements. Now, a fan of FPS games could come into one of those games, and complain that there's not enough action. The game has too much "boring" exploration, and that the puzzle and platforming elements take away from it being a "pure" FPS game. However, that person would be missing the point completely, since that's not what the game is trying to be. It's understandable if a FPS fan went into it expecting a FPS game and being upset about not getting a true FPS, but that's not Nintendo/Retro's fault, it's just how it is.

With Dead Space, it took the core gaming mechanics of the rail shooter, but wanted to do something different with it. It didn't want to just be about the action, shooting everything in sight without hesitation. It wanted to set itself apart from the others, both in terms of its presentation and gameplay. It not only wanted to be a more cinimatic game, capturing the kind of atmosphere of the original game, but also wanted to mix up the shooting aspect of the rail shooter, also to fit with the original game. You actually have to think about the weapon you use, and how you use it in this game, much more than other rail shooters. Some people will come into this game, and like the changes in this game, both the presentation and gameplay. They actually prefer this style to the more simplistic "shoot anything that gets in your way" style of gameplay that other rail shooters have (not saying that style is bad, just pointing out how those people think). I can understand why you want a more normal platformer game, and I'm not arguing against your opinion. All I'm saying is that you alone can't say regular rail shooters >>>> DSE as a fact instead of an opinion. It's OK if you do feel that way, but you should understand that not everybody has to, or does feel that way.

Wii GOTY eat it.

I couldn't disagree more. Dead Space Extraction is one of my favourite Wii games to date.NOD_Grindking

What I'm getting out of this is that Dead Space: Extraction delivered on what it was supposed to be well, but you don't want what it is.

So... I'm not really sure what can be said about that.

GabuEx

[QUOTE="NOD_Grindking"]I couldn't disagree more. Dead Space Extraction is one of my favourite Wii games to date.umcommon

That's a presumtuous statement.

i actually liked it....enjoyed playing through the multiplayer campaign with a buddy, not the best wii game to date but still fun to play

Of course I don't want what it is. That's why I didn't buy it. It's not rocket science. If I must clarify, I don't want interactive movies on my gaming console. I want games on my gaming console. For some reason, this is very difficult for many people on this site to understand. I am happy the game, which delivered on its cinematic qualities, failed miserably because its cinematic qualities were the reason the game flat-out sucked. Dingerious

Yes, but that's my point. Dead Space: Extraction isn't "horrible"; it did what it intended to do well, but you didn't want what it intended to do. There's a huge difference between games that just plain fail at what they try to do and games that succeed in that respect but are simply not desired by the one speaking, and I think this is a difference that is acknowledged far too few times. Games should be recommended or warned against based on what the other person wants, not on what the speaker wants. A prospective buyer has little use for another person's personal tastes in terms of figuring out whether or not to buy something.