Did Twilight Princess put the Zelda franchise back on track?

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LordelX

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#1 LordelX
Member since 2004 • 1376 Posts

In a recent interview with Aonuma on this very site, he mentioned how Wind Waker had almost killed the franchise, and how if Twilight Princess hadn't of worked it would have basically been the last Zelda. Now, I know most of you want to put up arms and defend Wind Waker to the bitter end, but please remember, you are a minority. The issue is not whether Wind Waker was a good game or not, because it most definately was....it's how the game was recieved by the mainstream gaming public.

Has Twilight Princess really made the Zelda franchise top tier again in the eyes of the average gamer? I don't live in North America so I wouldn't know.....but judging from the reactions I see on this site, I would say Twilight Princess has suffered somewhat of a backlash. I imagine a majority of people who play games are not nerds like us that bother to notice what other people think on some gaming site.

So how was Twilight Princess recieved according to the masses? Is Zelda back in a big way, or is it just another entry in a franchise that is slowly slipping of the mainstream gamer's radar and into a niche category with the likes of Castlevania and Mega Man?

Any opinions?

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hionspeed64

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#2 hionspeed64
Member since 2004 • 1544 Posts
Whatever...I really enjoyed Wind Waker, even more than Twilight Princess because I felt like I played Twilight Princess already 8 years ago.
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lzorro

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#3 lzorro
Member since 2006 • 7395 Posts
It was never off-track :|
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-DarkestHour-

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#4 -DarkestHour-
Member since 2007 • 270 Posts
It was never off-track :|lzorro


Agreed. If anything, Twilight Princess brought the series down more then Wind Waker. Twilight Princess was basically like playing all of the previous zelda games mixed into one. Windwaker was original, and worked out great.
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NECR0CHILD313

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#5 NECR0CHILD313
Member since 2006 • 7025 Posts
The Wii version alone right now is closing on 3/4th the sales of WW and it hasn't been out for very long at all.

*some spoilers*

I believe it put the franchise back on track, unlike some purists you may meet who claim it's an OoT rehash (the direct similarities end after the third dungeon, IMO. Miyomoto wanted to dig up the nostalgia, even to the point of including the all-but useless slingshot, and I agree that he went a little to far, perhaps, in the aspect of the dungeons, but after the third dungeon you'll find it's hardly a rehash, the Sky Temple is my favorite Zelda Dungeon to date, and I loved that Mansion dungeon), I believe it was a step in the right direction for the series, the story was incredibly deeper than any other installment in the series and actually left you both wanting to rush through to find out what happens next and take your time to absorb the entirety of the game simultaniously.

My only complaints were that the emphasis on story made the game a bit more linear than usual, and the battles were too casual-friendly. Honestly, if they made a "master quest" for TP it would be an incredible game that would surpass OoT in my book. Perhaps the Wii-specific installment should be the first Zelda with real difficulty settings, with one of the modes near-impossibly hard. Yes, that'd be a nice twist that adds more replay to a series that already has incredible value.

Windwaker was sorely lacking on a real story *scoffs at those who got teary eyed at WW's pathetic ZOMG KING TOUCHED IT FIRST ending*, and the most developed character, which IMO, was Aryll, (perhaps the King of Red Lions, but he was rather stagnant development-wise throughout the bulk of the game, and just made you wish you could light him on fire when accidently talking to him 20,000 times while swimming/getting back on the boat) didn't have much bearing on the game after the first part when she gets snatched up. Granted, previous Zelda games had "loose" stories as well, I'd rather have an entirely open ended story or one craftily weaved throughout the progression of the game, not something bastardly in-between. And I agree with the casuals that the art direction was hideous, and Link looked like a Monkey (there, I said it!) *changes into flame-retardant Goron Tunic*. My favorite part of Wind Waker was the whole Picto-Box thing and the return of the "second" quest from LoZ, but was really only different in respect to cosmetic measures with the translated Hylain and "Invisible Clothes" and all (I thought the Invisible Clothes rocked).

If the next installment can deliver the incredible amount of character development that was just put into Midna alone, as well as offer the new like the latter 3/4th of TP did, and utilize the Wiimote fully and engagingly, all while perhaps overcoming the two most common gripes (no voice acting, not challenging enough), I think it'd handily dethrone OoT and easily become a game worthy of purchasing the Wii alone for.
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_Devastator

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#6 _Devastator
Member since 2007 • 303 Posts

It was never off-track :|lzorro

I also agree, it hasn't been off-track.  If you didn't like WW, then I wouldn't call you a true fan to the series anyway.

If anything, the argument for TP being too easy is more valid than WW putting the Zelda series off-track.

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thisisjosh

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#7 thisisjosh
Member since 2005 • 2845 Posts

In a recent interview with Aonuma on this very site, he mentioned how Wind Waker had almost killed the franchise, and how if Twilight Princess hadn't of worked it would have basically been the last Zelda. Now, I know most of you want to put up arms and defend Wind Waker to the bitter end, but please remember, you are a minority. The issue is not whether Wind Waker was a good game or not, because it most definately was....it's how the game was recieved by the mainstream gaming public.

Has Twilight Princess really made the Zelda franchise top tier again in the eyes of the average gamer? I don't live in North America so I wouldn't know.....but judging from the reactions I see on this site, I would say Twilight Princess has suffered somewhat of a backlash. I imagine a majority of people who play games are not nerds like us that bother to notice what other people think on some gaming site.

So how was Twilight Princess recieved according to the masses? Is Zelda back in a big way, or is it just another entry in a franchise that is slowly slipping of the mainstream gamer's radar and into a niche category with the likes of Castlevania and Mega Man?

Any opinions?

LordelX

with the likes of Castlevania? don't get it.

 Zelda.......back? what are you talking about?

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Andy639_basic

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#8 Andy639_basic
Member since 2002 • 386 Posts
Obviously, Twilight Princess has been a huge hit. But if the 'masses' didn't like Wind Waker, they're idiots. I don't see how he can say that Wind Waker put the series at risk--it sold roughly 2.2 million copies, and is reportedly the 13th best selling video game of the 21st century.
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NECR0CHILD313

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#9 NECR0CHILD313
Member since 2006 • 7025 Posts

[QUOTE="lzorro"]It was never off-track :|_Devastator

I also agree, it hasn't been off-track. If you didn't like WW, then I wouldn't call you a true fan to the series anyway.

If anything, the argument for TP being too easy is more valid than WW putting the Zelda series off-track.



Wait, I didn't dig Wind Waker, I guess that means I'm not a true Zelda fan? And I don't remember Wind Waker being challenging in any meaningful way. In fact, with it's few real dungeons I'd say WW was easier to play through than TP. WW may have been trying with it's massive triforce easter-egg hunt, which was only replicated in short by the insect mini-hunts in TP, but putting down TPs ease and bolstering WW is ****ing in one hand and wishing in the other.
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Sepewrath

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#10 Sepewrath
Member since 2005 • 30713 Posts
You misunderstand the statement, he isnt saying the game was bad or anything, he is just saying that since Japanese gamers werent buying games anymore, and US gamers whined about the look of the game Windwaker didnt do so well. Lastly for all the people who claim that TP is too much like OoT its your fault, for whining about how much Windwaker wasnt like Oot. Even though the similarities are only in the beginning of the game, and the stories are in no way similar.
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Andy639_basic

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#11 Andy639_basic
Member since 2002 • 386 Posts
It's hard not to notice when the first eighteen hours of the game are spend exploring revamped versions of three of Ocarina's most memorable dungeons. And the fourth is just a revamped Dessert Collosus. And the Temple of Time? That said, I don't think TP is too similar to OOT, just that it's obvious Nintendo is catering to the OOT-Fanboys with it. It's not that I mind references to Ocarina, but I think some of them came at the expense of the game's own integrity. (Why in the world is there a portal to the Temple of Time in the middle of Faron Woods?)

Lastly for all the people who claim that TP is too much like OoT its your fault, for whining about how much Windwaker wasnt like Oot.

Speak for yourself, dude. I loved the fact that Wind Waker wasn't anything like Ocarina. Each Zelda game should be unique in it's own right. Twilight Princess ultiamtely is once you get past the first three dungeons, but it's still extremely fanservicey.
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RyanWare

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#12 RyanWare
Member since 2002 • 12113 Posts

Maybe it put the series "back on track" to the mainstream consumer, but to me, it failed to advance the series at all. It was OoT version 2, and nothing more. I would have rather they stuck with the more mature visuals and all to appeal to the masses, but also mix things up so it didn't feel so outdated. I'm really hoping the next Zelda makes some major changes to the series - and as long as it still has the "mature" look for mass appeal, everyone wins.

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#13 rond5566
Member since 2004 • 601 Posts
The only two Legend of Zelda games I don't like are Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess. I think the overhead Legend of Zelda games are superior in every sense of design, and the Wind Waker was better simply because it was original and fun.

I have doubts about the Phantom Hourglass being more of a throw back to the overhead games than actually trying to be the real thing. The Minish Cap pulled it off well though, so we'll see.

I believe Miyamoto when he says the next Legend of Zelda will be nothing like we've ever seen, so I hope that take a much different path than the Ocarina series. So to answer the question, I think Twilight Princess took Zelda down the wrong path for my tastes, but I know a lot of people disagree with me about my opinion on Ocarina of Time, so it will be a hit for most fans. Of course, the fans who don't mind playing remakes and essentially the same game over again instead of something new and fresh (ala Wind Waker)
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_Devastator

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#14 _Devastator
Member since 2007 • 303 Posts
[QUOTE="_Devastator"]

[QUOTE="lzorro"]It was never off-track :|NECR0CHILD313

I also agree, it hasn't been off-track. If you didn't like WW, then I wouldn't call you a true fan to the series anyway.

If anything, the argument for TP being too easy is more valid than WW putting the Zelda series off-track.



Wait, I didn't dig Wind Waker, I guess that means I'm not a true Zelda fan? And I don't remember Wind Waker being challenging in any meaningful way. In fact, with it's few real dungeons I'd say WW was easier to play through than TP. WW may have been trying with it's massive triforce easter-egg hunt, which was only replicated in short by the insect mini-hunts in TP, but putting down TPs ease and bolstering WW is ****ing in one hand and wishing in the other.

If it would make you feel better, then no.  I wouldn't call you a fan based on your post.  You haven't mentioned why you didn't 'dig' WW.  Being critical and stating an argument is one thing, but WW is nothing short of any other Zelda game created.  I'm not going to try to convince you to like WW; imo it is your loss and I don't care.

But I will try to clarify my point.  WW did nothing to put the LoZ series at risk.  If you have played the series, then there are certain elements that make the series what it is.  Gameplay is the most common thread.  The LoZ gameplay is the same for WW, aLttP, OoT, TP, MM, etc.  You solve puzzles, search for items and have minor combat in between.  WW in no way varies off this track.  In addition, the plot for WW is even more in-line with OoT (LoZ Gold Standard) than TP (Twilight Realm? Zant?) and some other LoZ games.  Don't read into that because that obiviously doesn't have to be a requirement of LoZ, (Minish Cap, aLttP, MM).  The graphics are what separate WW from TP and OoT.  Just because they were 'cartoonish,' most people want to burn WW at the stake.  If not that, then the sailing...it's too much.  Were you also mad when LoZ went 3D?  Give me a break.

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Litchie

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#15 Litchie
Member since 2003 • 36197 Posts
What the f...? Killed the franchise? Wind Waker is one of the best damn games ever created. The game was also popular and sold a lot of copies. If the next Zelda is a lot like TP, I'd rather see a Wind Waker 2..
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Raiko101

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#16 Raiko101
Member since 2005 • 3339 Posts
Being the worst selling game of the series from a financial perspective, Wind Waker could have killed off the Zelda series. However, if we're talking game quality, then perhaps not.
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Sepewrath

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#17 Sepewrath
Member since 2005 • 30713 Posts
[QUOTE="Andy639_basic"]It's hard not to notice when the first eighteen hours of the game are spend exploring revamped versions of three of Ocarina's most memorable dungeons. And the fourth is just a revamped Dessert Collosus. And the Temple of Time? That said, I don't think TP is too similar to OOT, just that it's obvious Nintendo is catering to the OOT-Fanboys with it. It's not that I mind references to Ocarina, but I think some of them came at the expense of the game's own integrity. (Why in the world is there a portal to the Temple of Time in the middle of Faron Woods?)

Lastly for all the people who claim that TP is too much like OoT its your fault, for whining about how much Windwaker wasnt like Oot.

Speak for yourself, dude. I loved the fact that Wind Waker wasn't anything like Ocarina. Each Zelda game should be unique in it's own right. Twilight Princess ultiamtely is once you get past the first three dungeons, but it's still extremely fanservicey.

I dont need to speak for myself, because I didnt complain about Windwaker, not being OoT all over again. And while there are similarities between OoT and TP it was unavoidable has Hyrule is a place set in stone, they remodeled it but it still has the same places so of course you will see places, and people that you have seen before. Whether that was to simply appease the fans or not.
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khron0248

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#18 khron0248
Member since 2004 • 25 Posts
the zelda series was never off track... wind waker was probably the best modern day zelda
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FireEmblem24

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#19 FireEmblem24
Member since 2007 • 1097 Posts
Maybe financially WW set the series back, but it was an amazing game. It is a bit immature to dismiss WW just becasue of the graphics. I think we were all shocked when we saw them for the first time, but the animations are perfect and the game has better "graphics" than TP.

 However, TP gave people what they wanted, a more realistic Zelda, as well as a "spiritual successor" to OoT. And the game is selling marvelously, becasue it is more mainstream. But the main complaint of TP is that it is too similar to OoT. WW was a breath of fresh air, and i loved it. TP was a great game, but it suffered because it played it safe. I enjoyed both, but TP is a little too much of same-old same-old. I hope that Nintendo really pushes the creative limits with the next Zelda, I'm really looking forward to it. 
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#20 jbrittain
Member since 2002 • 2152 Posts
the zelda series was never off track... wind waker was probably the best modern day zeldakhron0248
My sentiments exactly. I loved the Wind Waker and never thought that Nintendo went in the wrong direction with it. Twilight Princess was great too, but it wasn't an evolution of the series or anything.
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gatsbythepig

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#21 gatsbythepig
Member since 2003 • 12059 Posts
The Zelda series was never off track.  Who is Aonuma?  Why would that person's opinion mean anything?
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FireEmblem24

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#22 FireEmblem24
Member since 2007 • 1097 Posts
The Zelda series was never off track. Who is Aonuma? Why would that person's opinion mean anything?gatsbythepig

Yo foo, he was the guy who was in charge of making TP.
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ArkansasBoy91

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#23 ArkansasBoy91
Member since 2006 • 2430 Posts
Well, Those Are a bunch of Mixed Reaction there dude, Soyou WONTget a Positive Feedback. IMO, I think the Zelda series has ALWAYS been on Track, And it Has never got off track, And it Probaly wont,Unless a Totally Bad Medicore Zelda game would be released, and so far no zelda game has came close, or if it has it didnt deserve to...all zelda games are allot of fun. and every now and then a zelda game will get a bad rep, but it always regains it rep with the next game.. Honestly, TP is Probaly my Favorite Zelda yet . tp has Everything to offer, and to me It seems as TP has ALLOT more to offer this time around, So if the Series was boff track It is For Def Back on track Perfectly.
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#24 bradglimpse
Member since 2003 • 838 Posts
It was never off-track :|lzorro
100% agreed
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#25 420_Forever
Member since 2005 • 580 Posts

[QUOTE="lzorro"]It was never off-track :|_Devastator

I also agree, it hasn't been off-track. If you didn't like WW, then I wouldn't call you a true fan to the series anyway.

If anything, the argument for TP being too easy is more valid than WW putting the Zelda series off-track.

How can you even make a statement like that? Not liking one installment of the series doesn't mean you aren't a fan of the series. Give your head a shake.
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_Devastator

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#26 _Devastator
Member since 2007 • 303 Posts
[QUOTE="_Devastator"]

[QUOTE="lzorro"]It was never off-track :|420_Forever

I also agree, it hasn't been off-track. If you didn't like WW, then I wouldn't call you a true fan to the series anyway.

If anything, the argument for TP being too easy is more valid than WW putting the Zelda series off-track.

How can you even make a statement like that? Not liking one installment of the series doesn't mean you aren't a fan of the series. Give your head a shake.

Since you would like to split hairs on my comment allow me to explain.  The series is a set.  If a member is removed from the set, then the collection is no longer complete.  Hence if you don't like one game of the series, you don't like the collection.  If you don't like the collection, then you wouldn't be a fan of the complete series now would you?  It's simple math really.

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Dencore

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#27 Dencore
Member since 2006 • 7094 Posts
You misunderstand the statement, he isnt saying the game was bad or anything, he is just saying that since Japanese gamers werent buying games anymore, and US gamers whined about the look of the game Windwaker didnt do so well. Lastly for all the people who claim that TP is too much like OoT its your fault, for whining about how much Windwaker wasnt like Oot. Even though the similarities are only in the beginning of the game, and the stories are in no way similar.Sepewrath
Agreed 100%. I liked TP more then anyother Zelda, and the fact that it resembled OoT was it's only fault. It would've been sooooo much better if it just involved the Twilight World, but no when WindWaker came out everyone complained and whined saying "This ISN'T OoT II!!" Then TP came out, what the heck! I didn't want OoT II :|"
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alpax

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#28 alpax
Member since 2006 • 696 Posts
The franchise never had to live off of its reputation so T.P. was just a solid addition.
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andrewkozis

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#29 andrewkozis
Member since 2005 • 3336 Posts
T.P was great but it was never off track
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#30 pierst179
Member since 2006 • 10805 Posts

It was never off-track :|lzorro

Completely agree, I was going to say the same thing. Zelda games have always been successful.