Do you think Gen 4 or Gen 5 is marking the ultimate decline of Pokemon?

Of course, Gen 1 was the apex, and they stayed up there in Gen 2. Gen 3, i personally liked, but it is not held very high in most people's opinons. Gen 4, as everyone realizes, had some of the worst pokemon we had ever seen. And the amount of bashing everyone has already done on the Gen5 sillouettes doesnt make me think of a bright future. Do you think the Gen5 and the Gen4 pokemon could mean that Pokemon is off the saddle and it will only get worse as they go on until they are over with? I will be surprised if they can carry on to just Gen7, and if they do make it that far, i bet it will be pretty ugly at that point. But anyways, who agrees, or who thinks Pokemon is just finishing a hill, going into the valley, and is about to go head back to the top again?

Of course, Gen 1 was the apex, and they stayed up there in Gen 2. Gen 3, i personally liked, but it is not held very high in most people's opinons. Gen 4, as everyone realizes, had some of the worst pokemon we had ever seen. And the amount of bashing everyone has already done on the Gen5 sillouettes doesnt make me think of a bright future. Do you think the Gen5 and the Gen4 pokemon could mean that Pokemon is off the saddle and it will only get worse as they go on until they are over with? I will be surprised if they can carry on to just Gen7, and if they do make it that far, i bet it will be pretty ugly at that point. But anyways, who agrees, or who thinks Pokemon is just finishing a hill, going into the valley, and is about to go head back to the top again?

Noskillkill

the awesome thing about pokemon is that the gameplay stays relatively the same. I personally feel that the older generations are held in such high regard because of a mix of nostalgia and the fact that nothing like this had been done before and gotten so much popularity... i think. New players wont see it as, o great, more pokemon but as, wow there are so much and they'll be able to choose decent ones out of the fold of bad new ones coming out. Pokemon will be fine and it will stay fine. as it loses more fans, it'll also gain more fans.

as your last thing comment, i think pokemon is on a level plane. it exploded in the first few years and has held relatively steady. in fact, i think it just passed a hump because the DS is so popular. Ruby and Saphire came at a time when the gba and gameboy brand was starting to decline. With the DS being so popular and selling so much, it seems pokemon is on the rise again... at least in terms of video games.

I think it is a matter of perspective. People who have been playing since the first generation tend to like the earlier Pokemon and hate the newer ones but for people like me and my son who started watching the anime and playing the games at generation four, those are the Pokemon we are most familiar with. I know that Piplup, Turtwig and Chimchar get slagged as being the worst starters yet, but I like them the most. Maybe when generation ten rolls around I will be griping about those Pokemon and lamenting the glorious days of generation four while the newcomers to the Pokemon universe will think that those starters are the best ones ever.

How was gen 4 a decline for the series? It had wifi and wireless battling. No more crappy cables to connect with friends. If anything it was the best of the 4 gens.Crotazoa8

he was talking more about the pokemon themselves.

gen 4. if they remake the first gen again ill get it anyway

[QUOTE="Crotazoa8"]How was gen 4 a decline for the series? It had wifi and wireless battling. No more crappy cables to connect with friends. If anything it was the best of the 4 gens.bionicle_lover

he was talking more about the pokemon themselves.

My guess is that there'll be 6 gens in the current format of pokemon. Each gen has been worse from the one before it. Though Black/White seem to have made more changes to the formula that could make gen 5 be more highly liked than 4 or even 3

[QUOTE="Noskillkill"]

Of course, Gen 1 was the apex, and they stayed up there in Gen 2. Gen 3, i personally liked, but it is not held very high in most people's opinons. Gen 4, as everyone realizes, had some of the worst pokemon we had ever seen. And the amount of bashing everyone has already done on the Gen5 sillouettes doesnt make me think of a bright future. Do you think the Gen5 and the Gen4 pokemon could mean that Pokemon is off the saddle and it will only get worse as they go on until they are over with? I will be surprised if they can carry on to just Gen7, and if they do make it that far, i bet it will be pretty ugly at that point. But anyways, who agrees, or who thinks Pokemon is just finishing a hill, going into the valley, and is about to go head back to the top again?

bionicle_lover

the awesome thing about pokemon is that the gameplay stays relatively the same. I personally feel that the older generations are held in such high regard because of a mix of nostalgia and the fact that nothing like this had been done before and gotten so much popularity... i think. New players wont see it as, o great, more pokemon but as, wow there are so much and they'll be able to choose decent ones out of the fold of bad new ones coming out. Pokemon will be fine and it will stay fine. as it loses more fans, it'll also gain more fans.

as your last thing comment, i think pokemon is on a level plane. it exploded in the first few years and has held relatively steady. in fact, i think it just passed a hump because the DS is so popular. Ruby and Saphire came at a time when the gba and gameboy brand was starting to decline. With the DS being so popular and selling so much, it seems pokemon is on the rise again... at least in terms of video games.

hmm that's all very true. you have a good point there.

How was gen 4 a decline for the series? It had wifi and wireless battling. No more crappy cables to connect with friends. If anything it was the best of the 4 gens.Crotazoa8

i guess i should have been more clear. i mean in how much you can Enjoy the Pokemon themselves. A lot of fans and players judge pokemon games by the pokemon that are in the games. The gameplay on the other hand has definately inmproved and continues to do so. But the characters, like your rival, the professors, mother, etc. also have a big impact. and the rival most of all. And he was more of an annoying hyper-active trainer, not a rival in Gen 4.

I really can't agree that the games have been going downhill. Yes, I've played and cleared R/B/Y, and yes, it was before G/S/C was even released. I've also played every mainstream game to date, and cleared at least one every generation.

I'm going to agree that the in-game story has gotten worse, since Team Rocket at least has a goal that seems plausible, unlike the newer ones. However, the Pokemon aren't less original, nor are they "worse" (a very subjective term). The fact is, 1st gen is full of unoriginality, granted 4th doesn't seem that original, but it is as you realize that they had to make 100 and some odd creatures without making any too similar to the existing nearly 400 creatures that already existed. Diversity of the newer games are actually great.

If you've ever played or watched RBY OU you know there's essentially a "standard team" that almost everyone uses. There's just not enough choice. Every team is basically the same. GSC is very similar, as most teams are stall based, and there's a near cookie cutter stall. It is better, but not that varied. RSE is where a competitive OU game actually gets interesting IMO. There's actually a large enough variety to not see the same team every time you play. DPPt is great though. Everyone can add a personal touch to their team without making it substandard easily.

Variety is the gem of the series. It always has been, even though the variety gets cut down by competitive play, the newer games just prove the standout part of the series more than old games do.

I, personally love my Diamond. I am a fan of all the other games. I don't specifically hate any of them, and I can't really name a best or worse in my opinion.

[QUOTE="Crotazoa8"]How was gen 4 a decline for the series? It had wifi and wireless battling. No more crappy cables to connect with friends. If anything it was the best of the 4 gens.Noskillkill

i guess i should have been more clear. i mean in how much you can Enjoy the Pokemon themselves. A lot of fans and players judge pokemon games by the pokemon that are in the games. The gameplay on the other hand has definately inmproved and continues to do so. But the characters, like your rival, the professors, mother, etc. also have a big impact. and the rival most of all. And he was more of an annoying hyper-active trainer, not a rival in Gen 4.

The only Pokemon I don't like is Dunsparce. It's a snake thing that looks like it should be a Bug Type.

[QUOTE="Noskillkill"]

[QUOTE="Crotazoa8"]How was gen 4 a decline for the series? It had wifi and wireless battling. No more crappy cables to connect with friends. If anything it was the best of the 4 gens.sonictrainer

i guess i should have been more clear. i mean in how much you can Enjoy the Pokemon themselves. A lot of fans and players judge pokemon games by the pokemon that are in the games. The gameplay on the other hand has definately inmproved and continues to do so. But the characters, like your rival, the professors, mother, etc. also have a big impact. and the rival most of all. And he was more of an annoying hyper-active trainer, not a rival in Gen 4.

The only Pokemon I don't like is Dunsparce. It's a snake thing that looks like it should be a Bug Type.

to this day i never have been able to figure out what type it is...and im too lasy to look it up

I really can't agree that the games have been going downhill. Yes, I've played and cleared R/B/Y, and yes, it was before G/S/C was even released. I've also played every mainstream game to date, and cleared at least one every generation.

I'm going to agree that the in-game story has gotten worse, since Team Rocket at least has a goal that seems plausible, unlike the newer ones. However, the Pokemon aren't less original, nor are they "worse" (a very subjective term). The fact is, 1st gen is full of unoriginality, granted 4th doesn't seem that original, but it is as you realize that they had to make 100 and some odd creatures without making any too similar to the existing nearly 400 creatures that already existed. Diversity of the newer games are actually great.

If you've ever played or watched RBY OU you know there's essentially a "standard team" that almost everyone uses. There's just not enough choice. Every team is basically the same. GSC is very similar, as most teams are stall based, and there's a near cookie cutter stall. It is better, but not that varied. RSE is where a competitive OU game actually gets interesting IMO. There's actually a large enough variety to not see the same team every time you play. DPPt is great though. Everyone can add a personal touch to their team without making it substandard easily.

Variety is the gem of the series. It always has been, even though the variety gets cut down by competitive play, the newer games just prove the standout part of the series more than old games do.

I, personally love my Diamond. I am a fan of all the other games. I don't specifically hate any of them, and I can't really name a best or worse in my opinion.

Hegna1

I agree with you alot. Much love for the 3rd gen. it was my first pokemon game, but i still look back at the other two gens and dont see why they are praised so much more and 3rd and 4th gen are hated so much (well i understand 4th gen). And yes i did actually really enjoy Pearl and Platinum. (but my team DID consist of all pokemon from earlier gens, except for the starter.) i just think that Gens 1-3 were great, and Gen 4 didnt live up to it in terms of the pokemon in it. But in gameplay, wow it gets better with every single game. New features, graphics, activities etc. makes it soso fun.

I know it is for me at least.

There's nothing left for it, but it's going to live on for a long while. Nintendo gets planets full of money from this series.

Why is it that I think the 5th Generation Pokemon will on be fail remakes, or pre/final evolutions of pokemon? That's what they did in the 4th Generation. And I do agree, pokemon are getting uglier. So yeah, pokemon is going downhill. The 3rd Generation of pokemon was the best. I miss playing Pokemon Sapphire, it was total ownage. Well i guess when pokemon completely sucks, they'll probably make a new pokemon-like game to make up for the others.

[QUOTE="Hegna1"]

I really can't agree that the games have been going downhill. Yes, I've played and cleared R/B/Y, and yes, it was before G/S/C was even released. I've also played every mainstream game to date, and cleared at least one every generation.

I'm going to agree that the in-game story has gotten worse, since Team Rocket at least has a goal that seems plausible, unlike the newer ones. However, the Pokemon aren't less original, nor are they "worse" (a very subjective term). The fact is, 1st gen is full of unoriginality, granted 4th doesn't seem that original, but it is as you realize that they had to make 100 and some odd creatures without making any too similar to the existing nearly 400 creatures that already existed. Diversity of the newer games are actually great.

If you've ever played or watched RBY OU you know there's essentially a "standard team" that almost everyone uses. There's just not enough choice. Every team is basically the same. GSC is very similar, as most teams are stall based, and there's a near cookie cutter stall. It is better, but not that varied. RSE is where a competitive OU game actually gets interesting IMO. There's actually a large enough variety to not see the same team every time you play. DPPt is great though. Everyone can add a personal touch to their team without making it substandard easily.

Variety is the gem of the series. It always has been, even though the variety gets cut down by competitive play, the newer games just prove the standout part of the series more than old games do.

I, personally love my Diamond. I am a fan of all the other games. I don't specifically hate any of them, and I can't really name a best or worse in my opinion.

Noskillkill

I agree with you alot. Much love for the 3rd gen. it was my first pokemon game, but i still look back at the other two gens and dont see why they are praised so much more and 3rd and 4th gen are hated so much (well i understand 4th gen). And yes i did actually really enjoy Pearl and Platinum. (but my team DID consist of all pokemon from earlier gens, except for the starter.) i just think that Gens 1-3 were great, and Gen 4 didnt live up to it in terms of the pokemon in it. But in gameplay, wow it gets better with every single game. New features, graphics, activities etc. makes it soso fun.

Pokemon are still awesome and the ones that complain about the newer games are nostalgic to the originals. I personally think G/S/C is the best, followed by D/P/Pt and then R/B/Y. The 3rd gen games were by far the worst. Pokemon is an acquired taste but it's gold for those who appreciate how much care goes into the main Pokemon games. Platinum still has some of the magic from the second gen and it's one of my favourite games of last year. Gen 5 is going to be kick ass as well if they're able to change it up like they said they will.

Criticizing Pokemon designs will never be legitimate. Not once have I seen anyone go beyond "they suck" in terms of explanation. So, I can only conclude that no one knows why they don't like them. Therefore, I can also conclude their opinions are invalid. :P

4th gen worst? :lol:

80% of the 4th gen Pokemon were good, if not better then previous gens. I don't what you're talking about worst.

4th gen worst? :lol:

80% of the 4th gen Pokemon were good, if not better then previous gens. I don't what you're talking about worst.

Lord_Omikron666

*high-fives*

[QUOTE="Lord_Omikron666"]

4th gen worst? :lol:

80% of the 4th gen Pokemon were good, if not better then previous gens. I don't what you're talking about worst.

Pixel-Perfect

*high-fives*

[QUOTE="Pixel-Perfect"]

[QUOTE="Lord_Omikron666"]

4th gen worst? :lol:

80% of the 4th gen Pokemon were good, if not better then previous gens. I don't what you're talking about worst.

Lord_Omikron666

*high-fives*

No problem, thanks for not being blinded by nostalgia.

[QUOTE="Lord_Omikron666"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Perfect"]

*high-fives*

Pixel-Perfect

No problem, thanks for not being blinded by nostalgia.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Perfect"]

[QUOTE="Lord_Omikron666"]*high-fives* Thank you for having thine eyes open to the truth. :P

Lord_Omikron666

No problem, thanks for not being blinded by nostalgia.

Lol you're right on the first part, too often do people judge games on their appearence.

I liked most of the pokemon on generation 4. Generation's 5 pokemon don't seem that awful. I personally am hopefull that generation 5 will be another amazing entry to the series.

[QUOTE="Noskillkill"]

[QUOTE="Hegna1"]

I really can't agree that the games have been going downhill. Yes, I've played and cleared R/B/Y, and yes, it was before G/S/C was even released. I've also played every mainstream game to date, and cleared at least one every generation.

I'm going to agree that the in-game story has gotten worse, since Team Rocket at least has a goal that seems plausible, unlike the newer ones. However, the Pokemon aren't less original, nor are they "worse" (a very subjective term). The fact is, 1st gen is full of unoriginality, granted 4th doesn't seem that original, but it is as you realize that they had to make 100 and some odd creatures without making any too similar to the existing nearly 400 creatures that already existed. Diversity of the newer games are actually great.

If you've ever played or watched RBY OU you know there's essentially a "standard team" that almost everyone uses. There's just not enough choice. Every team is basically the same. GSC is very similar, as most teams are stall based, and there's a near cookie cutter stall. It is better, but not that varied. RSE is where a competitive OU game actually gets interesting IMO. There's actually a large enough variety to not see the same team every time you play. DPPt is great though. Everyone can add a personal touch to their team without making it substandard easily.

Variety is the gem of the series. It always has been, even though the variety gets cut down by competitive play, the newer games just prove the standout part of the series more than old games do.

I, personally love my Diamond. I am a fan of all the other games. I don't specifically hate any of them, and I can't really name a best or worse in my opinion.

HungryLuma

I agree with you alot. Much love for the 3rd gen. it was my first pokemon game, but i still look back at the other two gens and dont see why they are praised so much more and 3rd and 4th gen are hated so much (well i understand 4th gen). And yes i did actually really enjoy Pearl and Platinum. (but my team DID consist of all pokemon from earlier gens, except for the starter.) i just think that Gens 1-3 were great, and Gen 4 didnt live up to it in terms of the pokemon in it. But in gameplay, wow it gets better with every single game. New features, graphics, activities etc. makes it soso fun.

I was never talking about Black/White. I dont really like the whole re design of the graphics either but im not gonna push that away just yet. It might be kind of cool. But i was refering to Gen 4.

Criticizing Pokemon designs will never be legitimate. Not once have I seen anyone go beyond "they suck" in terms of explanation. So, I can only conclude that no one knows why they don't like them. Therefore, I can also conclude their opinions are invalid. :P

789shadow

I cant agree more. ill be honest i DONT know why i dont like them. i DO let myself be blinded by nostalgia. but hey there must be something in my brain telling me that these pokemon just dont have that magic.

Criticizing Pokemon designs will never be legitimate. Not once have I seen anyone go beyond "they suck" in terms of explanation. So, I can only conclude that no one knows why they don't like them. Therefore, I can also conclude their opinions are invalid. :P

789shadow

Here's an explanation: The modern Pokemon designs are completely absurd, implausible, have bizarre color choices, sometimes have gimmicks thrown in (see: any Pokemon with an alternate form), sometimes have convoluted backstory (see: any legendary Pokemon), and are completely uninspired.

Can we stop with the generalizations now?

all gens of pokemon can be used in gen 4. soul silver is gen 2 and fire red is gen 1 and sapphire is gen 3. i was able to transfer pokemon from them to pearl. see 150 pokemon(not phanpy) and talk to proffessor then you get the national dex to get them. only the original and lite ds can do it

Well you are entitled to your opinion, but keep in mind just because you say generation 4 sucked doesn't make it so. I personally loved everything about the new pokemon.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

Criticizing Pokemon designs will never be legitimate. Not once have I seen anyone go beyond "they suck" in terms of explanation. So, I can only conclude that no one knows why they don't like them. Therefore, I can also conclude their opinions are invalid. :P

VGobbsesser

Here's an explanation: The modern Pokemon designs are completely absurd, implausible, have bizarre color choices, sometimes have gimmicks thrown in (see: any Pokemon with an alternate form), sometimes have convoluted backstory (see: any legendary Pokemon), and are completely uninspired.

Can we stop with the generalizations now?

Oh, sounds like you are disappointed they don't look exactly like real animals. :roll:

As if all Pokemon designs ever don't fit this.

(Lawnmower Pokemon...seriously?)Waffle_Fish

Silence, Cut form Rotom is awesome. :P

The level design and pokemon design in Gen 4 was horrible. I can honestly say that i don't remember any specific pokemon or any specific location from that game even though i clocked in around 50 hours into it. Gen 1,2, and 3 all had very memorable settings and villages and pokemon, but not Gen 4. I am honestly not hoping for much with Gen 5, but i will probably still get it.

4th gen wasn't all that bad... but 5th gen starters look terrible.

Oh, sounds like you are disappointed they don't look exactly like real animals. :roll:

As if all Pokemon designs ever don't fit this.

789shadow

I'm not asking for them to look realistic; all I want is plausibility. Compare any older Pokemon with newer Pokemon, and there's a dramatic difference in styIe.

All these people that think that the designs are unoriginal are full of it. It's just a bunch of bitter people clinging to nostalgia. Whether you like it or not, millions of people will still buy whatever is in store for us fans that actually like the franchise. So, TTYLwiretoss

Yep, I agree. That's why I gave actual reasons as to why I dislike Pokemon designs. Oh, wait...

I'm tired of all these people that think it's trendy or something to not like pokemon after a certain gen or something. It's sooooo tacky. If you don't like it, why do you all seem to have the need to whine and complain about it? All these people that think that the designs are unoriginal are full of it. It's just a bunch of bitter people clinging to nostalgia. Whether you like it or not, millions of people will still buy whatever is in store for us fans that actually like the franchise. So, TTYLwiretoss

Maybe its not a trend...maybe we actually DONT like them. And why not whine and complain. Who said we need to shut up unless its an opinion you want to hear. And how are we full of it because we think the designs are not good? Is that not what WE think? Its not like we are stating facts. And yeh, nostalgia has something to do with it, but that isnt the ONLY reason, as you seem to think. And yeh we all still like the franchise, im only saying i dont enjoy the pokemon themselves as much. Im still excited for this game.

So, TTYL

[QUOTE="789shadow"]Oh, sounds like you are disappointed they don't look exactly like real animals. :roll: As if all Pokemon designs ever don't fit this.VGobbsesser

[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"][QUOTE="789shadow"]Oh, sounds like you are disappointed they don't look exactly like real animals. :roll: As if all Pokemon designs ever don't fit this.Shinobishyguy

Both of those Pokemon are based off of a different styIe, which is what my comment said.

And your point is....?

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]I'm not asking for them to look realistic; all I want is plausibility. Compare any older Pokemon with newer Pokemon, and there's a dramatic difference in styIe. VGobbsesser

Both of those Pokemon are based off of a different styIe, which is what my comment said.

And your point is....?

I liked Gen 4's Pokemon, and I haven't seen enough of Gen 5's Pokemon to form an opinion. Gen 3 was the only generation where I did not really like most of the Pokemon.

Gen 1 and 2 had the best Pokemon though...

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

Oh, sounds like you are disappointed they don't look exactly like real animals. :roll:

As if all Pokemon designs ever don't fit this.

VGobbsesser

I'm not asking for them to look realistic; all I want is plausibility. Compare any older Pokemon with newer Pokemon, and there's a dramatic difference in styIe.

All these people that think that the designs are unoriginal are full of it. It's just a bunch of bitter people clinging to nostalgia. Whether you like it or not, millions of people will still buy whatever is in store for us fans that actually like the franchise. So, TTYLwiretoss

Yep, I agree. That's why I gave actual reasons as to why I dislike Pokemon designs. Oh, wait...

Plausability? When the first Pokemon in the Pokedex is a green dinousar.........thing, with a gigantic bulb on it's back, I don't think you have any right to be demanding plausible Pokemon. In fact, since they are imaginary, they are inherently inplausible.

Yeah agree, people who always talk badly about the new pokemon seem to ignore the fact that a lot of the old ones were also not very good. Fairly sure if a pokemon like ditto was a 4th gen pokemon, it would get criticized a lot as an example of the creators being desperate, running out of ideas etc. I think most people are just feeling nostalgic tbh.

The level design and pokemon design in Gen 4 was horrible..

hoola

Level Design?

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

Oh, sounds like you are disappointed they don't look exactly like real animals. :roll:

As if all Pokemon designs ever don't fit this.

VGobbsesser

I'm not asking for them to look realistic; all I want is plausibility. Compare any older Pokemon with newer Pokemon, and there's a dramatic difference in styIe.

Primeape vs Infernape.

Go on. I dare you to say that the 1st generation boxing fur ball with a pig nose, that according to it's name, was supposed to be an ape, is more plausible than the 4th generation fire ape.