Less People Buying And Playing Zelda? That's Great, Oh Wait....
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Plus, Twilight Princess shouldn't have been rated T for Teen. If the movie The Grudge was rated PG, then TP should have been E10 max.helium_flash
the grudge was pg-13
Everything about the Zelda franchise screams potential, but much of that potential could only be realized if they made it a mature game.
The storyline, the gameplay, everything. We should let David Jaffe do a spin-off of the franchise, he could do wonders.
helium_flash
of course he can...with fountains of blood and breasts the size of your head
[QUOTE="santiagochile"]This thread fails. What's with all the "protect the children" nonsense from you, Jasonguy. A mature Zelda would be fun, but it doesn't have to be a bloodbath like No More Heroes or Manhunt 2. I would be happy with more realism and a darker story. It doesn't have to have lots of blood or dismembered corpses, just a darker theme. What's wrong with that. If the game is good, and is not too bloody, people of all ages could still play it. Heck, my friend's son had nightmares from playing Windwaker. Just give consumers what they want, and everything will work out. Jaysonguy
Again, we're not talking about bad parenting we're talking about the ability for everyone to play it.
Parents failing at raising their kids isn't part of the argument.
Show me one place where I said anything about parenting. ONE! You always try to change the subject, but as usual, you fail. Reread the post, and if you don't understand, I can explain it to you!
[QUOTE="wilsn2019"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]Ok I'm going to have to explain the point again.
First of all if you want to go argue that kids play games they're not supposed to because of ratings and they enjoy them then please pick another thread. I'm not about to discuss how parents fail to raise their kids right.
If you think this thread is about keeping Zelda far from realism you're also mistaken but you can hang around in here.
The point I'm trying to make is that when you take the Zelda that we all grew up with and make it realistic you end up with a game like Twilight Princess where it's got the same content as other E rated games but it had to be rated T for the realism.
Now for everyone who wants a darker Zelda that becomes a T rating not because of the realism that becomes a T rating because of content and that's where Zelda starts to lose age groups because of the way that the game is rated.
A T rating because of content becomes something where you don't have little kids growing up with the franchise, you have kids not able to pick it up until later in their lives. Nintendo's ability to make all their lead franchises all ages instantly crumbles away.
Jaysonguy
Well from what i've read, the only time parenting has been brought up has been by you. You said it twice, both of which times neither person was anywhere around the subject. So why are you telling people to find another thread on a subject you alone are discussing? (and completly off base on)
Second, if this is your opionion on Zelda games, thats great. Play what ever Zelda game you want, Shigeru Miyamoto, as stated before, knows what he's doing. He's been doing it for 20+ years now and hasn't failed yet. He gives variety with his Zelda games and does it because he knows people want it. We don't have to worry about Zelda becoming a mature game. And I really don't think Miyamoto is going to stop progressing with graphics technology because it means it gets a T for teen due to realism.
Totally missed the point and some of the posts in this thread so honestly at this point I hope you have a really good day.
Jasonguy, I notice that when people disagree with you, you tell them to "have a nice day." If you don't want people to disagree with you then don't post. This is a chat forum, and not everyone likes your silly ideas. How can you fail to grasp such a basic concept?? I find your attitude to be arrogant, ignorant, and condescending. Please, just stop!
[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="santiagochile"]This thread fails. What's with all the "protect the children" nonsense from you, Jasonguy. A mature Zelda would be fun, but it doesn't have to be a bloodbath like No More Heroes or Manhunt 2. I would be happy with more realism and a darker story. It doesn't have to have lots of blood or dismembered corpses, just a darker theme. What's wrong with that. If the game is good, and is not too bloody, people of all ages could still play it. Heck, my friend's son had nightmares from playing Windwaker. Just give consumers what they want, and everything will work out. santiagochile
Again, we're not talking about bad parenting we're talking about the ability for everyone to play it.
Parents failing at raising their kids isn't part of the argument.
Show me one place where I said anything about parenting. ONE! You always try to change the subject, but as usual, you fail. Reread the post, and if you don't understand, I can explain it to you!
What I believe Jasonguy was saying about the parenting thing, is that he feels that if you allow your children to play M rated games, you fail as a parent. That, however, is as ridiculous as saying that if they only play M rated games, they'll grow up to be homicidal murders. I've been playing mature rated games and watching rated R movies since I was a little kid, yet I've never killed anyone or committed any crimes. That "parents failing at rasing their kids" statement seems like an ignorant-politician way of thinking (reminds me of the crap that comes from Jack Thompson), and for a poster that constantly tries to seem more intelligent than everyone else, I'm actually surprised he would jump to such a conclusion.
To me, that seems to be the whole point of the original post: he doesn't want a more mature themed Zelda game because he feels the kids can't take it. Anyone who is around kids these days knows the majority of them are a lot less fragile than you'd think. I don't see the need to constantly coddle them, especially when there are plenty of family-friendly gaming alternatives out there, most of which are by Nintendo. One of the biggest complaints about the Zelda francise right now is that it's getting too stagnant; the formula is stale and needs to be changed. Well, a more mature theme or setting might be just the kick in the right direction the series needs, so why would you prevent a potentially awesome title being made because it could cater to a slightly older ("more mature" would be a better phrase) audience?
Frankly, I wouldn't want to see an M rated Zelda game because whenever a game get's an M rating, there's always the assumption that the devs need to add things like tons of blood, swearing, and adult situations. I would think that a Zelda game that was slightly darker in theme would be pretty cool if they pulled it off right, and it could still get a Teen rating. They wouldn't have to add gallons of gore or constant profanity to pull it off, either.
On a personal note, this is why I try not to read anything Jasonguy related. He makes entire threads about subjects a few people debate over (and sometimes the subjects are almost dead), forms half-valid, semi-thought out arguments in his defense, and then leaves when it looks like he's been trumpted only to post ANOTHER mostly pointless thread. I'd think that if you take the time to make soapbox statements that you KNOW are going to cause heated conversations, you'd at least stick around for the other side of the story. Kinda seems like troll behavior to me, but who knows? He got me to type all this out, now didn't he?
Very good point. But the problem is, many gamers are just selfish. I'm not saying that they don't care about other gamers. I'm just saying they think about what they want and normally only think about what others want if it's brought up. Personally I loved the "kiddy" art style of WW and PH. The TP art style was good, but not really my favorite.
Another problem withe young gamers today, I think they might just be getting a little more stupid...No offense to young gamers or anything, but I remember playing through games that my 8 year old brother played when I was his age and I could beat just about all of them. He and his friends have trouble with most of the same games that I could've beaten when I was 8 (Pokemon for example. I dominated that game). If I convince my little brother to play any sort of puzzle game, he normally gets confused and gives up. He's not bad at video games or anything. He loves to play them. I guess he's just young and doesn't know really what to do in some games. He does have somebody to ask though (me) and I didn't so that could play some factor in it. Not sure how much though.
Good post though!
Yeah, I loved Wind Waker as well, even though some didn't like the art style. I even remember getting ragged on a little by friends since they thought it looked so "kiddie". Just chalked it up to their loss.
I just think that automatically assuming a game will be worse if it chooses to take a new approach from the old tried-and-true formula is a bad way of thinking, and will just build up those "it's too stale!" comments. I've said this a lot in a ton of different threads, but I think that if they actually tried that April's Fool's joke from last year - a Zelda set in an FFVII type setting - and really dedicated themselves to making it a great experience, that could be a truely awesome game! I wouldn't even care if they stuck the same "enter dungeon, fight boss, grab heart piece" gameplay to it; just a brand new, futurisitc setting would be a great change of pace!
And as for the kids...I just think that's how the new generation acts because they weren't raised on the gaming goodness. They grew up watching Pokemon and and playing Yugioh, I grew up watching classic TMNT and playing Donkey Kong.
oh god not halo 3 thats rubbish,,, timesplitters 3 please.. ill pass. halo 3 had nothing even when compared to goldeneye007 ya just because its rated m dont mean its any good,,, and which would sell more.. a m rated game like driv3r or a t rated game like goldeneye007 you cant answer that can ya,, the truth is goldeneye out sold driv3r in its life time oh and halo only sold 7 million units in its life time compared to goldeneyes over 9 million ,, rotflol and that is a t rated game perfect dark sold 8, somthing million tells you somthing doesnt it,, m rated games -aside from gta and re do not sell as good as other games that are e t or e10+ hence it is impossible for a kid to go into a store and purchase a m rated title,,
and timesplitters is also the best selling fps last gen it sold more then halo did ,, on all 3 consoles it achieved greatest hit status,, or players choice status-2 did,, 3 didnt get players choice on gc ,, but on xbox and ps2 it did, so ya
and as time goes on there has been less good games released on a system
does any one remember when snes and nes were out,, all the good games, no one complained if they were rated t m or e , they were just good,,
even movie tie ins were better back in the day in fact the last good translation was goldeneye007 on the n64 and that game invented halo i dont c are what any one of you anti 007 fans or n64 fans are thinking bc thats the truth with out the popularity of goldeneye /doom/perfect dark or duke nukem halo would not eve be around in fact fpses for console wouldnt be as good as it is today,, and back to original statement
snes has more good games then n64 ps1 or ps2 in its whole time ,, yes ps2 has over 2thousand but more then half is shovel ware ,, i gurantee you that,
snes nes genesis and other past 16 bit systems had more variety in their games ,, one game you played you were amazed for example super mario kart, first kart racer,, or top gear, mixing pole position with nascars pit strategy fun times,, then you got zelda ,, and in my opinion snes zelda was the best one ever made,, nothing comes close.. tp was great as was oot but zelda 3 was action all the way til the end
then you got mario take out the star collection bs,,, m64 was perfect but after that ,, meh ,, galaxy was great but nothing can compare to super mario bros 3 or new super mario bros,, style of gameplay, simple or hard but still fun to play through several times
same for games like tmnt, they really went down the tubes after sneses tmnt iv turtles in time, i played the gc demo of tmnt in the dd bonus disc omg how stupid it was, and all the 007 games after id say twine n64 , , lacked then came back up with everything or nothing then all the way down to an all time bore with a game that claimed to be goldeneye successor ,,
and top gear also went down the drain the ps2 1 was probably the worst ever game i played i n the top gear series after that i never touched a top gear title again
same with halo ,, halo 1 was great but 2 was a disappointment ,, then halo 3 was ok if only itll utilize its hardware like a 360 game should,,
my point is as long as the game is fun to play, then dont complain,, im sure we cant have m rated titles all the time ,, play what you play stop complaining,, about not having a m rated zelda, heck i wished theyd make another top gear as good as the original , but nope wont happen ,, bc they ll end up mocking fast and the furious oh wait they did with rpm tuning , lol , so what am i saying,,
Here's something I see a lot when it comes to the Zelda franchise.
People want a darker, more mature, Zelda game to be made.
Now I started playing games at age 3, I have a friend and she started at 4. I'm sure that most people here started before the age of 10. Depending when we were born most of us have had a chance to play the majority of franchises even when our ages were in single digits.
Hundreds upon hundreds (upon thousands) of people have fond memories of playing the Zelda franchise when they were little. Those people have grown up with the Zelda franchise and still play it and love it to this day.
Now if you make a mature Zelda you stop an entire generation of kids from having the opportunity to grow up with the franchise.
One of the amazing things for Zelda and the other major Nintendo franchises is that EVERYONE comes out to get the game. You see people of all ages buying the game. Some are on their 10th installment of the franchise and some are on their first.
Now what would have happened if 20 years ago someone decided to make the Zelda franchise mature? Then a good chunk of you would have missed out on the game. When you talk about the games you played growing up you'd have to take Zelda out of the picture.
Sucks huh?
So why is there such a great need to take away that opportunity from players these days?
Why is there a need to have a Zelda game that some part of the gaming public is going to miss out on?
Jaysonguy
Considering the way nintendo is like its very unlikely theres going to be a M rated Zelda game. Nintendo is pretty stubborn,they don't give in easily not even to their customers. Sometimes its like we keep saying what we want and what they should do and they sit there with plugs in their ears and a thumb up their...*cough*.
Anyways, As far as I know Zelda is already a mature game. In theme at least. I don't find Zelda to be just some kids game not even wind waker. I do have to say though I found Twilight Princess to be more serious than others. Theres less humor in it than in other Zelda games and while the constant theme of good vs evil which is prevalent through out the series Twilight princess dwelves even deeper than that sometimes taking on a sort of macabre overtone. There were a few times in the game that were quite gloomy and depressing. Again though the story seems more serious, I think its refreshing. I would just as much be happy to see the next Zelda game to be whimsical and cartoon like as I would realistic like and serious. However adding blood and all that sort of tihng you see in mature games would be going just too far. Again though I don't think Nintendo will ever go much further than they did with Twilight Princess they can be very conservative. This is one of the few cases where its a good thing they don't listen to us.
So in conclusion while you may label Twilight Princess as a dark and mature Zelda game. I think its completely appropriate with the series and does not cross any lines. The series will probably continue to be thrown this way and that way in certain degrees but I don't think we will be seeing any ultra violent like Gta style Zelda games. So the worrying is needless.
Very good point. But the problem is, many gamers are just selfish. I'm not saying that they don't care about other gamers. I'm just saying they think about what they want and normally only think about what others want if it's brought up. Personally I loved the "kiddy" art style of WW and PH. The TP art style was good, but not really my favorite.
Another problem withe young gamers today, I think they might just be getting a little more stupid...No offense to young gamers or anything, but I remember playing through games that my 8 year old brother played when I was his age and I could beat just about all of them. He and his friends have trouble with most of the same games that I could've beaten when I was 8 (Pokemon for example. I dominated that game). If I convince my little brother to play any sort of puzzle game, he normally gets confused and gives up. He's not bad at video games or anything. He loves to play them. I guess he's just young and doesn't know really what to do in some games. He does have somebody to ask though (me) and I didn't so that could play some factor in it. Not sure how much though.
Good post though!
Ospov
another thing that was not really a trend in the earlier video game days was that people were not worried if a game was not uber hardcore looking. I know some of my brother's friends will not even look at Zack and Wiki because of its overly childish artstyle and nature.
Which leads me to believe that if they made Link more over the top "badass" like MS spends millions on master chief to send that image then probabaly more younger kids would like it. And this is an unfortunate truth.
Still without raising the rating I think Zelda needs to be more serious and perhaps dark because its clear there needs to be some change in the zeries.
[QUOTE="santiagochile"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="santiagochile"]This thread fails. What's with all the "protect the children" nonsense from you, Jasonguy. A mature Zelda would be fun, but it doesn't have to be a bloodbath like No More Heroes or Manhunt 2. I would be happy with more realism and a darker story. It doesn't have to have lots of blood or dismembered corpses, just a darker theme. What's wrong with that. If the game is good, and is not too bloody, people of all ages could still play it. Heck, my friend's son had nightmares from playing Windwaker. Just give consumers what they want, and everything will work out. Swifty_Magee
Again, we're not talking about bad parenting we're talking about the ability for everyone to play it.
Parents failing at raising their kids isn't part of the argument.
Show me one place where I said anything about parenting. ONE! You always try to change the subject, but as usual, you fail. Reread the post, and if you don't understand, I can explain it to you!
What I believe Jasonguy was saying about the parenting thing, is that he feels that if you allow your children to play M rated games, you fail as a parent. That, however, is as ridiculous as saying that if they only play M rated games, they'll grow up to be homicidal murders. I've been playing mature rated games and watching rated R movies since I was a little kid, yet I've never killed anyone or committed any crimes. That "parents failing at rasing their kids" statement seems like an ignorant-politician way of thinking (reminds me of the crap that comes from Jack Thompson), and for a poster that constantly tries to seem more intelligent than everyone else, I'm actually surprised he would jump to such a conclusion.
To me, that seems to be the whole point of the original post: he doesn't want a more mature themed Zelda game because he feels the kids can't take it. Anyone who is around kids these days knows the majority of them are a lot less fragile than you'd think. I don't see the need to constantly coddle them, especially when there are plenty of family-friendly gaming alternatives out there, most of which are by Nintendo. One of the biggest complaints about the Zelda francise right now is that it's getting too stagnant; the formula is stale and needs to be changed. Well, a more mature theme or setting might be just the kick in the right direction the series needs, so why would you prevent a potentially awesome title being made because it could cater to a slightly older ("more mature" would be a better phrase) audience?
Frankly, I wouldn't want to see an M rated Zelda game because whenever a game get's an M rating, there's always the assumption that the devs need to add things like tons of blood, swearing, and adult situations. I would think that a Zelda game that was slightly darker in theme would be pretty cool if they pulled it off right, and it could still get a Teen rating. They wouldn't have to add gallons of gore or constant profanity to pull it off, either.
On a personal note, this is why I try not to read anything Jasonguy related. He makes entire threads about subjects a few people debate over (and sometimes the subjects are almost dead), forms half-valid, semi-thought out arguments in his defense, and then leaves when it looks like he's been trumpted only to post ANOTHER mostly pointless thread. I'd think that if you take the time to make soapbox statements that you KNOW are going to cause heated conversations, you'd at least stick around for the other side of the story. Kinda seems like troll behavior to me, but who knows? He got me to type all this out, now didn't he?
Very well put, friend-o.
the most resent game was phontom hourglass and that was super childishdeawsomekurt
Did you even play the game? That game had great puzzles and boss battles. The only negative part was the backtracking into the Ocean King's Temple. I understand if you just got frustrated at the puzzles, quit, and hate it because of that, but I personally loved the game.
Anyway, it's true that kids today are looking for a "badass hero" in all of their games and they won't play anything that will make them look younger (cause we all know that little kids want to seem older and more grown-up than they really are). I suppose that could be considered a problem, but it's not like we can really do anything about it. If the kids are too dumb to know what a good game is...well, it's their loss. Kids don't need badasses as the main character all the time. Mario wouldn't be a badass if you just looked at a picture of him, but we all know that he is. I think the same thing could be applied to any genre. It doesn't have to look badass, it just has to be badass. If badass is what you're going for anyway...
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