Nintendo's Failure 20 Years in the Making

Im actually doing a research paper on it and looking back to the NES/Sega Master System days, i came across a consistancy that im sure u all know about. comparing those two systems, u'll find that the SMS was a better system in terms of its hardware. going on to the Gameboy and the Gamegear, again... the GG has better and brighter visuals to the gameboy, mostly due to the light screen. on to the N64 and playstation, even though the n 64 was more powerful, games on the PS focused heavily on the visuals. (moving on past gamecube since it was better than the ps2)... DS and PSP. PSP has better visuals, rivaling the ps2. now the wii. this is a given, since the 360 and ps3 are far more powerful than the wii with tons of gigs in storage space, and HD.

nintendo over the years was able to get away with their lack in technical advancement because of their innovation, great games, and exclusitivity. now that the industry is much larger than it was 10, 20 years ago, and the fact that technology is growing faster than it has ever before in gaming... nintendo cant really get away with taking a back seat when it comes to hardware. for now, the wii is an exception, as its sales topple the competition. but gaming has come so far, and developers are looking towards other consoles that aren't capable on nintendo's. do u think that nintendo should focus more on putting their money (god knows they have a hell of a lot) towards pushing the hardware AND innovating? this is just my opinion, but i think that if nintendo continues down this path that they've chosen, it might come to a dead end.

this goes in system wars.. not the wii forumag1052

y, this is a nintendo topic. nothing to do with the other two, they were just examples

[QUOTE="ag1052"]this goes in system wars.. not the wii forummrjam0

y, this is a nintendo topic. nothing to do with the other two, they were just examples

that's actually totally untrue, reread your fanboy rant and you'll see how you compared nintendo's consoles to other consoles throughout the entirety of your post.

Nintendo isnt going to fail. The system with the worst hardware has won every time except oneblingchu55

ok ok. how far can motion sensitivity go? not only is it effecting consumor intrest, but developer intrest as well

[QUOTE="ag1052"]this goes in system wars.. not the wii forummrjam0

y, this is a nintendo topic. nothing to do with the other two, they were just examples

[QUOTE="mrjam0"]

[QUOTE="ag1052"]this goes in system wars.. not the wii forumag1052

y, this is a nintendo topic. nothing to do with the other two, they were just examples

no way, that system is way better than this system!

uh oh... someone is upset that their favoured system isn't doing as well as a "low-tech, low-graphics" system like the Wii. :cry:obsolete2k1

pointless comment. ok... moving on

[QUOTE="blingchu55"]Nintendo isnt going to fail. The system with the worst hardware has won every time except onemrjam0

ok ok. how far can motion sensitivity go? not only is it effecting consumor intrest, but developer intrest as well

are you agreeing or disagreeing with me, i cant tell

For the last 20 years, the majority of people have not cared which system is more powerful. I don't think that will change any time soon. Don't get me wrong, I have all the systems, yet I play my Wii much more than the rest of the systems combined. I know I'll be in line for he next system even if Nintendo decides not to go with the latest technology, and I will always be a Nintendo player.Cesar_Barba

comming off of ur first statment, that actually changed.

:lol: You think Nintendo loses every times because of its graphics?!LOLhahaDEAD

actually nintendo has a fantastic win loss record

4-2 win loss

that's not bad at all

[QUOTE="mrjam0"]

[QUOTE="blingchu55"]Nintendo isnt going to fail. The system with the worst hardware has won every time except oneblingchu55

ok ok. how far can motion sensitivity go? not only is it effecting consumor intrest, but developer intrest as well

are you agreeing or disagreeing with me, i cant tell

disagree. im wondering what else they can come up with, like people r wondering what's going to be the new "galaxy". and some consumors are interested in hardware, devs too. games that they want to make cannot be done on wii, so they move on to another console

[QUOTE="LOLhahaDEAD"]:lol: You think Nintendo loses every times because of its graphics?!blingchu55

actually nintendo has a fantastic win loss record

4-2 win loss

that's not bad at all

If I read the TC's statements correctly, he's saying that Nintendo aren't going to succeed because they never have the best hardware. Obviously, that is wrong, and I was pointing that out.

[QUOTE="blingchu55"][QUOTE="mrjam0"]

[QUOTE="blingchu55"]Nintendo isnt going to fail. The system with the worst hardware has won every time except onemrjam0

ok ok. how far can motion sensitivity go? not only is it effecting consumor intrest, but developer intrest as well

are you agreeing or disagreeing with me, i cant tell

disagree. im wondering what else they can come up with, like people r wondering what's going to be the new "galaxy". and some consumors are interested in hardware, devs too. games that they want to make cannot be done on wii, so they move on to another console

Since when has coming up with stuff won console wars?

and to LOLhahaDEAD

oh, i thought you were saying something else. Sorry

[QUOTE="blingchu55"][QUOTE="mrjam0"]

[QUOTE="blingchu55"]Nintendo isnt going to fail. The system with the worst hardware has won every time except onemrjam0

ok ok. how far can motion sensitivity go? not only is it effecting consumor intrest, but developer intrest as well

are you agreeing or disagreeing with me, i cant tell

disagree. im wondering what else they can come up with, like people r wondering what's going to be the new "galaxy". and some consumors are interested in hardware, devs too. games that they want to make cannot be done on wii, so they move on to another console

You should do some better research. We don't measure success (or shouldn't) on which system looks better or has more storage capability, it's about how much fun we're having as well as how well they're selling. The NES did much better than the SMS, as did the Gameboy over the Game Gear, by far. Same with the DS.

The reason why the Wii is doing so good is because Nintendo is doing what they were doing 20 years, sparking interest in people again. We like new things. We've been playing games the same way since the NES first revolutionized gaming. People have realized that games aren't just about the visuals, it's about having fun and playing with others.

I never once imagined in my life that I'd actually play against my father(who lives two states away) on an online FPS. That sort of thing blows me away.

Nintendo is doing great, and will continue to do great. Gaming will do nothing but get better, at least that's the hope that Nintendo has put in me.

[QUOTE="blingchu55"]

[QUOTE="LOLhahaDEAD"]:lol: You think Nintendo loses every times because of its graphics?!LOLhahaDEAD

actually nintendo has a fantastic win loss record

4-2 win loss

that's not bad at all

If I read the TC's statements correctly, he's saying that Nintendo aren't going to succeed because they never have the best hardware. Obviously, that is wrong, and I was pointing that out.

devs turning to other consoles Y?

what are you talking about? The 360 and PS3 arent getting mroe devs, and the more they are getting never did wii games. Very few wii games have been canceled and put on ps360

the only reason we dont have that many games now is because nobody expected the wii to be such a succes, and it takes about a year to make a game.(atleast) so once they noticed they bet on the wrong horse, they had to take the time to make more games.

You should do some better research. We don't measure success (or shouldn't) on which system looks better or has more storage capability, it's about how much fun we're having as well as how well they're selling. The NES did much better than the SMS, as did the Gameboy over the Game Gear, by far. Same with the DS.

The reason why the Wii is doing so good is because Nintendo is doing what they were doing 20 years, sparking interest in people again. We like new things. We've been playing games the same way since the NES first revolutionized gaming. People have realized that games aren't just about the visuals, it's about having fun and playing with others.

I never once imagined in my life that I'd actually play against my father(who lives two states away) on an online FPS. That sort of thing blows me away.

Nintendo is doing great, and will continue to do great. Gaming will do nothing but get better, at least that's the hope that Nintendo has put in me.

ozzsoad

i understand that, and i know about the sales. NES 62 mill SMS 13 mill. but what in saying, is that its possible that nintendo might get pushed over in terms of hardware. its not that other consoles only have graphics going for them, they also havee great games. and with that success, devs might turn over, not totally, but majority wise. look at the bigger picture

what are you talking about? The 360 and PS3 arent getting mroe devs, and the more they are getting never did wii games. Very few wii games have been canceled and put on ps360

the only reason we dont have that many games now is because nobody expected the wii to be such a succes, and it takes about a year to make a game.(atleast) so once they noticed they bet on the wrong horse, they had to take the time to make more games.

blingchu55

they sure as hell r getting more third party support than the wii. look at the lineup for this year. and let me make this clear to EVERYONE., this is only a speculation. im not saying its going to happen

So now devs are moving over to the ps3 and 360, while ignoring the wii, due to succes?blingchu55

thats a very stupid question

[QUOTE="blingchu55"]So now devs are moving over to the ps3 and 360, while ignoring the wii, due to succes?mrjam0

thats a very stupid question

i was being sarcastic. I mean that the wii is more succesful than the ps3 and wii

[QUOTE="Cesar_Barba"]For the last 20 years, the majority of people have not cared which system is more powerful. I don't think that will change any time soon. Don't get me wrong, I have all the systems, yet I play my Wii much more than the rest of the systems combined. I know I'll be in line for he next system even if Nintendo decides not to go with the latest technology, and I will always be a Nintendo player.mrjam0

comming off of ur first statment, that actually changed.

oh, poor baby, is your system losing to a console with bad graphics but great controls?duckshoe

i cant help but laugh at u. i own a wii

they sure as hell r getting more third party support than the wii. look at the lineup for this year. and let me make this clear to EVERYONE., this is only a speculation. im not saying its going to happenmrjam0

Uh.. Actually the Wii's getting a bunch of 3rd party support. Most of them are crap but hey! It still is 3rd party support!

You should do some better research. We don't measure success (or shouldn't) on which system looks better or has more storage capability, it's about how much fun we're having as well as how well they're selling. The NES did much better than the SMS, as did the Gameboy over the Game Gear, by far. Same with the DS.

The reason why the Wii is doing so good is because Nintendo is doing what they were doing 20 years, sparking interest in people again. We like new things. We've been playing games the same way since the NES first revolutionized gaming. People have realized that games aren't just about the visuals, it's about having fun and playing with others.

I never once imagined in my life that I'd actually play against my father(who lives two states away) on an online FPS. That sort of thing blows me away.

Nintendo is doing great, and will continue to do great. Gaming will do nothing but get better, at least that's the hope that Nintendo has put in me.

ozzsoad

AND that :)

[QUOTE="duckshoe"]oh, poor baby, is your system losing to a console with bad graphics but great controls?mrjam0

i cant help but laugh at u. i own a wii

Nintendo doesn't go out to make the least powerful system and hope for the best. They plan out their attack like any good Japanese company should, intelligently. Nintendo has been using old or familiar tech since the Game and Watch days. A design that uses familiar tech in new ways isn't a step backward, but a design decision.

From a design standpoint, having hardware limitations makes for better games. Why? Because it forces developers to get creative to make a deep and involving (read: fun) game. Any monkey can saturate a game world with bloom and HDR lighting to make it pretty, but take the same game and put it on a graphically inferior system and the game's look suffers. Does that ruin the game? Then your design wasn't good enough. Polish a turd and you only have a polished turd afterall. Nintendo's move to release a graphically inferior system is one Nintendo has done many times before and succeeded in forcing devs to innovate. It's only a matter of time before the real potential of the Wii will be seen.

You may have a point mate: Nintendo could invest in better graphics and a bigger built-in data storage, but this doesn't change the fact that Nintendo is the greatest gaming company on the market and, with their NES/Famicom, they saved videogames from certain death during the crisis of 1983.

Yes, the Master System might have been better (first time I hear someone say that, though), but it had no games at all. Yes, the Game Gear had color, too bad its power usage was so poorly optimized that the batteries lasted three hours, tops.

And this:

games like final fantasy 7-9 showed off what the PS can do, which was rarely (if at all) seen on the N64.mrjam0

...this is blasphemy. The N64 had so many great games that the Playstation, for great it has been, could only dream about.

Gaming is not all about technical power, we're not talking about mobile phones or cars. Gaming is a form of art and it's Nintendo that's keeping it fresh.

[QUOTE="mrjam0"]they sure as hell r getting more third party support than the wii. look at the lineup for this year. and let me make this clear to EVERYONE., this is only a speculation. im not saying its going to happen20fox05

Uh.. Actually the Wii's getting a bunch of 3rd party support. Most of them are crap but hey! It still is 3rd party support!

You should do some better research. We don't measure success (or shouldn't) on which system looks better or has more storage capability, it's about how much fun we're having as well as how well they're selling. The NES did much better than the SMS, as did the Gameboy over the Game Gear, by far. Same with the DS.

The reason why the Wii is doing so good is because Nintendo is doing what they were doing 20 years, sparking interest in people again. We like new things. We've been playing games the same way since the NES first revolutionized gaming. People have realized that games aren't just about the visuals, it's about having fun and playing with others.

I never once imagined in my life that I'd actually play against my father(who lives two states away) on an online FPS. That sort of thing blows me away.

Nintendo is doing great, and will continue to do great. Gaming will do nothing but get better, at least that's the hope that Nintendo has put in me.

ozzsoad

AND that :)

a ton of third party support compaired to how much on the other two? saying a ton says nothing, and saying crap says everything. better third party support on other consoles.

You should do some better research. We don't measure success (or shouldn't) on which system looks better or has more storage capability, it's about how much fun we're having as well as how well they're selling. The NES did much better than the SMS, as did the Gameboy over the Game Gear, by far. Same with the DS.

The reason why the Wii is doing so good is because Nintendo is doing what they were doing 20 years, sparking interest in people again. We like new things. We've been playing games the same way since the NES first revolutionized gaming. People have realized that games aren't just about the visuals, it's about having fun and playing with others.

I never once imagined in my life that I'd actually play against my father(who lives two states away) on an online FPS. That sort of thing blows me away.

Nintendo is doing great, and will continue to do great. Gaming will do nothing but get better, at least that's the hope that Nintendo has put in me.

i already responeded to that one

a few things here TC.

1) the N64 was alot more powerful than the PS1. in fact ninty used to pride themselves on having the most powerful hardware on the market and they kept loosing customers. games like FF7 used pre rendered backgrounds and FMVs for its graphics. the only real time graphics in FF7 are the character models. its not a display of the PS1s power at all. somethign like spyro would be more fitting and comparing that to OOT would not be favourable for the PS1.

2) horsepower has never dictated the victor and it never will. u say that nintendo will hit a dead end? well id argue that the other will hit a dead end first since all they seem to be able to do is make the same games as last gen, only prettier. and that will only go so far before the differences in gens, from a graphics perspective, will be negligable. and the cost of the machines wont justify any improvement.

3) this obsession with pushing machines to the limit is getting pointless. games development should be about making the best game possible, not pushing the hardware. and those are 2 very seperate things. if a game is better served by being a 2d game then it shoudl be a 2d game.

4) the wii is not an axception, its basically just demonstrated, again, that horsepower has litttle to do with a platforms success.

5) going on to the handhelds: nint have always had the weakest handheld on the market at the time. and every competitor thought that this was a weakness. and every singe last one of them, without exception, had failed to take nintendos market share. the demands of a protable are different to a console and the PSP is just the latest reminder of this. the next company to question nintys knowledge of the handheld sector is going to get laughed at.

6) ninty arent going to release a console that will be as poweful as a PS4, as big a change as the wii has been and release it for under 300 with a game in the box. its not going to happen, its not possible. the R&D costs for innovation are also huge. so wii2 will probably be the weakest console next gen. will it hold them back? depends on how they promote it and what the competition does.

Hardware isn't just about graphics. Nintendo did put some thought into this gen's hardware and decided to be successful they needed it to be a new kind of fun (so they added motion controls) and accessible (aka cheaper) And as it turns out it did make them successful this gen.

So saying they didn't put any thought into hardware or have inferior hardware just isnt correct. Your focusing on graphical power and should use words that mean that specifically.

Nintendo doesn't go out to make the least powerful system and hope for the best. They plan out their attack like any good Japanese company should, intelligently. Nintendo has been using old or familiar tech since the Game and Watch days. A design that uses familiar tech in new ways isn't a step backward, but a design decision.

From a design standpoint, having hardware limitations makes for better games. Why? Because it forces developers to get creative to make a deep and involving (read: fun) game. Any monkey can saturate a game world with bloom and HDR lighting to make it pretty, but take the same game and put it on a graphically inferior system and the game's look suffers. Does that ruin the game? Then your design wasn't good enough. Polish a turd and you only have a polished turd afterall. Nintendo's move to release a graphically inferior system is one Nintendo has done many times before and succeeded in forcing devs to innovate. It's only a matter of time before the real potential of the Wii will be seen.

CartoonProphet

well said, and ive always said that. but im looking at the consumors and the developers. maybe this thread was set too early for some of u, cause im sensing a lot of hard headed denial... lets wait a few years and see what the sales show.

[QUOTE="CartoonProphet"]

Nintendo doesn't go out to make the least powerful system and hope for the best. They plan out their attack like any good Japanese company should, intelligently. Nintendo has been using old or familiar tech since the Game and Watch days. A design that uses familiar tech in new ways isn't a step backward, but a design decision.

From a design standpoint, having hardware limitations makes for better games. Why? Because it forces developers to get creative to make a deep and involving (read: fun) game. Any monkey can saturate a game world with bloom and HDR lighting to make it pretty, but take the same game and put it on a graphically inferior system and the game's look suffers. Does that ruin the game? Then your design wasn't good enough. Polish a turd and you only have a polished turd afterall. Nintendo's move to release a graphically inferior system is one Nintendo has done many times before and succeeded in forcing devs to innovate. It's only a matter of time before the real potential of the Wii will be seen.

mrjam0

well said, and ive always said that. but im looking at the consumors and the developers. maybe this thread was set too early for some of u, cause im sensing a lot of hard headed denial... lets wait a few years and see what the sales show.

id rather use nows sales

wii>360>ps3

a few things here TC.

1) the N64 was alot more powerful than the PS1. in fact ninty used to pride themselves on having the most powerful hardware on the market and they kept loosing customers. games like FF7 used pre rendered backgrounds and FMVs for its graphics. the only real time graphics in FF7 are the character models. its not a display of the PS1s power at all. somethign like spyro would be more fitting and comparing that to OOT would not be favourable for the PS1.

2) horsepower has never dictated the victor and it never will. u say that nintendo will hit a dead end? well id argue that the other will hit a dead end first since all they seem to be able to do is make the same games as last gen, only prettier. and that will only go so far before the differences in gens, from a graphics perspective, will be negligable. and the cost of the machines wont justify any improvement.

3) this obsession with pushing machines to the limit is getting pointless. games development should be about making the best game possible, not pushing the hardware. and those are 2 very seperate things. if a game is better served by being a 2d game then it shoudl be a 2d game.

4) the wii is not an axception, its basically just demonstrated, again, that horsepower has litttle to do with a platforms success.

5) going on to the handhelds: nint have always had the weakest handheld on the market at the time. and every competitor thought that this was a weakness. and every singe last one of them, without exception, had failed to take nintendos market share. the demands of a protable are different to a console and the PSP is just the latest reminder of this. the next company to question nintys knowledge of the handheld sector is going to get laughed at.

6) ninty arent going to release a console that will be as poweful as a PS4, as big a change as the wii has been and release it for under 300 with a game in the box. its not going to happen, its not possible. the R&D costs for innovation are also huge. so wii2 will probably be the weakest console next gen. will it hold them back? depends on how they promote it and what the competition does.

osan0

thanks for the correction on the n64, but lets take a look at stats for a sec. the last home console war that nintendo won was the SNES. if u look at the sales, PS sold about 100 mill, n64 sold about 32mill. and i shouldnt have to mention last gen's. nintendo has alway dominated the handheld market, so ill put that one aside. does this prove specs will win? no. ps2 was weaker than the gc. but, nintendo seems to be doing the same thing since, maybe, just maybe if nintendo payed more attention to tech, things might pick up. i dont favor visuals over gameplay, for i play my wii more than my 360, but... nintendo has changed gaming, maybe they should SLIGHTLY change their strategy. im not asking for ps4 as u said. but more effort

wait did you say ps1 was more powerful than n64? really does sound that way with the final fantasy thing...monty_4256

yeah, by bad on that one

You're just talking about hardware.

Nintendo hasn't failed in terms of innovation and quality.

I don't mean to offend, but your research sounds very shallow. Statistics don't tell the whole story. And on the basis of one research paper, are you so presumptuous to suggest to the expert analysts at Nintendo that they should change their strategy while they're dominating the console and handheld market? I don't think your argument is going to be very popular right now.

And what do you mean "how far can motion controls go?" Why wouldn't they be able to go just as far as buttons and control pads?

I don't mean to offend, but your research sounds very shallow. Statistics don't tell the whole story. And on the basis of one research paper, are you so presumptuous to suggest to the expert analysts at Nintendo that they should change their strategy while they're dominating the console and handheld market? I don't think your argument is going to be very popular right now.presto7640

u might want to re think ur last statment. i understand wii sales, but look at the last two gens

thanks for the correction on the n64, but lets take a look at stats for a sec. the last home console war that nintendo won was the SNES. if u look at the sales, PS sold about 100 mill, n64 sold about 32mill. and i shouldnt have to mention last gen's. nintendo has alway dominated the handheld market, so ill put that one aside. does this prove specs will win? no. ps2 was weaker than the gc. but, nintendo seems to be doing the same thing since, maybe, just maybe if nintendo payed more attention to tech, things might pick up. i dont favor visuals over gameplay, for i play my wii more than my 360, but... nintendo has changed gaming, maybe they should SLIGHTLY change their strategy. im not asking for ps4 as u said. but more effort

mrjam0

[QUOTE="presto7640"]I don't mean to offend, but your research sounds very shallow. Statistics don't tell the whole story. And on the basis of one research paper, are you so presumptuous to suggest to the expert analysts at Nintendo that they should change their strategy while they're dominating the console and handheld market? I don't think your argument is going to be very popular right now.mrjam0

u might want to re think ur last statment. i understand wii sales, but look at the last two gens

No I don't want to rethink it. What about my last statement has anything to do with the last two generations?

Edited for being a little mean...

[QUOTE="osan0"]

a few things here TC.

1) the N64 was alot more powerful than the PS1. in fact ninty used to pride themselves on having the most powerful hardware on the market and they kept loosing customers. games like FF7 used pre rendered backgrounds and FMVs for its graphics. the only real time graphics in FF7 are the character models. its not a display of the PS1s power at all. somethign like spyro would be more fitting and comparing that to OOT would not be favourable for the PS1.

2) horsepower has never dictated the victor and it never will. u say that nintendo will hit a dead end? well id argue that the other will hit a dead end first since all they seem to be able to do is make the same games as last gen, only prettier. and that will only go so far before the differences in gens, from a graphics perspective, will be negligable. and the cost of the machines wont justify any improvement.

3) this obsession with pushing machines to the limit is getting pointless. games development should be about making the best game possible, not pushing the hardware. and those are 2 very seperate things. if a game is better served by being a 2d game then it shoudl be a 2d game.

4) the wii is not an axception, its basically just demonstrated, again, that horsepower has litttle to do with a platforms success.

5) going on to the handhelds: nint have always had the weakest handheld on the market at the time. and every competitor thought that this was a weakness. and every singe last one of them, without exception, had failed to take nintendos market share. the demands of a protable are different to a console and the PSP is just the latest reminder of this. the next company to question nintys knowledge of the handheld sector is going to get laughed at.

6) ninty arent going to release a console that will be as poweful as a PS4, as big a change as the wii has been and release it for under 300 with a game in the box. its not going to happen, its not possible. the R&D costs for innovation are also huge. so wii2 will probably be the weakest console next gen. will it hold them back? depends on how they promote it and what the competition does.

mrjam0

thanks for the correction on the n64, but lets take a look at stats for a sec. the last home console war that nintendo won was the SNES. if u look at the sales, PS sold about 100 mill, n64 sold about 32mill. and i shouldnt have to mention last gen's. nintendo has alway dominated the handheld market, so ill put that one aside. does this prove specs will win? no. ps2 was weaker than the gc. but, nintendo seems to be doing the same thing since, maybe, just maybe if nintendo payed more attention to tech, things might pick up. i dont favor visuals over gameplay, for i play my wii more than my 360, but... nintendo has changed gaming, maybe they should SLIGHTLY change their strategy. im not asking for ps4 as u said. but more effort

well the wii is the first console where nintendo didnt really put in a huge effort on the horsepower front, in fairness.

will they change their strategy slightly? probably. hell even ninty realise that the wii has some issues (shigsy said that the first thing he would change on wii would be to add more memory for downalods) so we can probably expect a big improvement on that side for wii2. as time goes by, im sure they will analyse and adjust their stratgey accordingly for the wii2.

will they try and go 40 rounds with sony on sonys terms though? god heavens no. the best a company can ever do is play to its strengths. ninty dont have the financial muscle to try and out sony sony at their own game (ie hardware, features and horse power). however new cool game ideas and daring plans....on that front ninty has sony beat and its their that they will fight. if greater hardware umph can asist with this then they will put it in. however if its deemed that the extra umph would cost too much and cause them to release an expensive machine, thus putting alot of ppl off, then they wont do it. theyll have a bit of extra grunt but they wont go nuts.