Suda 51 talks about wii third parties not selling and target audience

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=179648

In regards to third party titles not selling on Wii:

"While the sales weren't as high as I hoped, other titles for Wii aren't selling so well either. Only Nintendo titles are doing well. This isn't just because of the current situation in Japan, as this is happening outside Japan."

In regards to Wii's target audience: "Actually I was very surprised about the reality about Wii, because before I was making this game, I wasn't expecting that Wii would be a console targeted only for non-gamers. I expected more games for hardcore gamers. The reality is different to what I expected."

So now Suda isn't saying that his games can't draw in people, it's now Nintendo's fault?

Sorry, make a game that comes out of the closet and you can sell to everyone.

Suda seems to be happy staying in the closet selling to three coats, 2 hats, and a pair of boots.

He is correct, though. Most 3rd party games have horrible sales on the Wii, while 3rd parties find success on that other console. It's quite a shame when I see one of the best selling 3rd party titles is Carnival Games.:|BioShockOwnz

It's the fault of the consumers. They only buy first party titles and then wonder why third party support is so bad. It won't matter that Wii is the top selling console if third party titles don't sell. Right now the PS3 and 360 third party software is the outselling the Wii in America. If this doesn't change, third parties are just going to drop the Wii just like they did to the Gamecube and N64. It's up to Wii owners to change this.

He is correct, though. Most 3rd party games have horrible sales on the Wii, while 3rd parties find success on that other console. It's quite a shame when I see one of the best selling 3rd party titles is Carnival Games.:|BioShockOwnz

Not true, if you're going to debate don't make up the numbers yourself.

The top ten third party games for the Wii are...

Mario & Sonic At the Olympics

Resident Evil 4

Guitar Hero

Ryaman 1

Red Steel

Sonic and the Secret Rings

Tiger Woods

Resident Evil Umbrella ella ella Chronicles

MySims

Lego Star Wars

Oh ten not enough for you? Then top 11-20 games on the Wii are

Rayman 2

Cooking Mama

Trauma Center Second Opinion

High School Musical

Dragon Quest Swords

WWE Smackdown

Simpsons

FIFA

Spider-Man

Madden

It's the fault of the consumers. They only buy first party titles and then wonder why third party support is so bad. It won't matter that Wii is the top selling console if third party titles don't sell. Right now the PS3 and 360 third party software is the outselling the Wii in America. If this doesn't change, third parties are just going to drop the Wii just like they did to the Gamecube and N64. It's up to Wii owners to change this.

Rocky32189

Jaysonguy, that list just proves my point. Nearly all of those games are either giant franchises or launch titles. Not only that but compare their sales to 1st party titles. It's pathetic. We'll never see new franchises or great third part support if this doesn't change.

When you look at third party support for the Wii, it's no wonder their games don't sell. Do we really need another party game, mini game collection, or watered down port? Other than first party titles, there's only a handful of games worth owning on this system.

So, boo hoo, third party games don't sell? How about developing something worth buying?

Jaysonguy, that list just proves my point. Nearly all of those games are either giant franchises or launch titles. Not only that but compare their sales to 1st party titles. It's pathetic.

Rocky32189

But that's what people want.

So far the Wii is going exactly like the DS. Powered by Nintendo the first year and then others start to sell well in it's second.

Also every console relies on it's own titles. The only thing is that their own titles usually don't have much diversity. Nintendo is fortunate enough to have strong software in many different genres.

Game makers will always want to make titles for the Wii because the payoff is there. It costs much less to make a game for the Wii so even if it's sales are only half of the other console it still makes the dev more money.

Plus some games just hit the right number. Like Lego Star Wars hits all the consoles at about the same place in their top 30 games.

Suda is crying because he's worried his game wont appeal to everyone. Well then make another game.

Third parties are just to lazy to try anything new for the Wii all we get is ps2 ports and mini games.

And the thing is the Wii is such a great system it just that third parties are taking advantage of the casual gamers.

I just hope you're right Jaysonguy, cause I'm seeing alot of developers saying the same thing.

Although I mostly just hope the game sells better in the US and other markets. It looks cool, and has been received positively so far.

So now Suda isn't saying that his games can't draw in people, it's now Nintendo's fault?

Sorry, make a game that comes out of the closet and you can sell to everyone.

Suda seems to be happy staying in the closet selling to three coats, 2 hats, and a pair of boots.

Jaysonguy

So now Suda isn't saying that his games can't draw in people, it's now Nintendo's fault?

what that really says is

suda is saying that his game can draw people in, its now nintendo's fault.

It's the fault of the consumers. They only buy first party titles and then wonder why third party support is so bad. It won't matter that Wii is the top selling console if third party titles don't sell. Right now the PS3 and 360 third party software is the outselling the Wii in America. If this doesn't change, third parties are just going to drop the Wii just like they did to the Gamecube and N64. It's up to Wii owners to change this.

Rocky32189

i agree with this 100%.

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]He is correct, though. Most 3rd party games have horrible sales on the Wii, while 3rd parties find success on that other console. It's quite a shame when I see one of the best selling 3rd party titles is Carnival Games.:|Jaysonguy

Not true, if you're going to debate don't make up the numbers yourself.

The top ten third party games for the Wii are...

Mario & Sonic At the Olympics

Resident Evil 4

Guitar Hero

Ryaman 1

Red Steel

Sonic and the Secret Rings

Tiger Woods

Resident Evil Umbrella ella ella Chronicles

MySims

Lego Star Wars

Oh ten not enough for you? Then top 11-20 games on the Wii are

Rayman 2

Cooking Mama

Trauma Center Second Opinion

High School Musical

Dragon Quest Swords

WWE Smackdown

Simpsons

FIFA

Spider-Man

Madden

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]He is correct, though. Most 3rd party games have horrible sales on the Wii, while 3rd parties find success on that other console. It's quite a shame when I see one of the best selling 3rd party titles is Carnival Games.:|Jaysonguy

Not true, if you're going to debate don't make up the numbers yourself.

The top ten third party games for the Wii are...

Mario & Sonic At the Olympics

Resident Evil 4

Guitar Hero

Ryaman 1

Red Steel

Sonic and the Secret Rings

Tiger Woods

Resident Evil Umbrella ella ella Chronicles

MySims

Lego Star Wars

Oh ten not enough for you? Then top 11-20 games on the Wii are

Rayman 2

Cooking Mama

Trauma Center Second Opinion

High School Musical

Dragon Quest Swords

WWE Smackdown

Simpsons

FIFA

Spider-Man

Madden

Too bad most first party titles outsell those third party games. why do you think 3rd parties complain about nintendo's games outselling theirs all the time? :|

anyway, which of those are on NPD sales charts every so often?

None you say? Wait let me check *sees wii play, mario party 8 and other NINTENDO based titles*

:|

TOP 10 GAME SOFTWARE TITLES, NOVEMBER 2007 1) Call Of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (360) - Activision (Corp) - Nov 2007 - 1.57 million 2) Super Mario Galaxy (Wii) - Nintendo - Nov 2007 - 1.12 million 3) Assassin's Creed (360) - Ubisoft - Nov 2007 - 980,000 4) Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (PS2) - Activision - Oct 2007 - 967,000 5) Wii Play (with remote) (Wii) - Nintendo - Feb 2007 - 564,000 6) Mass Effect (360) - Microsoft - Nov 2007 - 473,000 7) Call Of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (PS3) - Activision - Nov 2007 - 444,000 8) Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (Wii) - Activision - Oct 2007 - 426,000 9) Halo 3 (360) - Microsoft - Sep 2007 - 387,000 10) Assassin's Creed (PS3) - Ubisoft - Nov 2007 - 377,000

and to back up my claims even further, here are November NPD sales

As you can see, i can not spot a third party wii title here (other than GH3, which is multiplatform).

The Wii market is definetely dominated by the 'casual' crowd. Sales show it, so I understand how it is frustrating for the developers. But they really should have patience and keep bringing the good games to the Wii. The more 'core' games the Wii gets, the more the 'core' group will come to the Wii.

Third parties just need to make sure the games they put on Wii that could attract the 'core' group are actually good. There are just too few right now, but I think this can and will change over the next year or two.

I wish I was rich and could purchase all these good/semi-ok third party games and support them all. But, unfortunately, I can't. I still need to get Zach & Wiki (its next on my list to get - once I pay some debt down). I will get No More Heros as soon as I can. I have decided that when purchasing games I will try to always put the thrid party games ahead of the first party games. (Sometimes that's just too hard though).

Too bad most first party titles outsell those third party games. why do you think 3rd parties complain about nintendo's games outselling theirs all the time? :|

anyway, which of those are on NPD sales charts every so often?

None you say? Wait let me check *sees wii play, mario party 8 and other NINTENDO based titles*

:|

Sonick54

Ok again you're trying to make the argument that we're screwed because Nintendo is such a competent developer and I just don't buy it.

Who makes the number one game for each "other" console? They're both first party.

Who makes the number two game for each "other" console? They're both first party.

Nintendo is a strong developer that if it was only in the software business would easily be the number one developer worldwide. Instead they also offer hardware and serve the needs of many with their ability to make hits for a myriad of genres.

As far as third party ruling the sales charts I think that's saying that Wii owners like a diversity of titles. Does that scare off some devs because they're not sure where the sales come from? Yes, you can say that.

Can you also say that the Wii's owners give a dev an opportunity to sell it's title no matter what genre it is? Yes you can say that too.

It depends how you want to look at the issue as far as sales. Like I said before a dev has to only sell a fraction of a game on the Wii to get their money so the low numbers aren't a concern from them. They're still making money and that's the only thing that matters.

Well,if third party developers actually advertise their games on Nintendo platforms,they might get some sales....:| >_>VGobbsesser

True. Red Steel sold very well despite its suckage, but that's mostly due to the commercials and other advertisement it got (and because it was one of very few mature games early in the Wii's life cycle). Guitar Hero and Resident Evil are well known, so they're going to sell well too. About NMH.... have any of you seen a commercial or advertisement outside of the internet or gaming magazines? I sure haven't. People won't buy the games if they don't know the games exist.

Because so far 3rd party games for the Wii have sucked. I'm buying No More Heros the day it comes out because I know it will pwn.FlaminDeath

He's right third parties need to make better quality games for them to sell not just ports. But the Wii's third party support won'teven beas close as bad as it was on the Gamecube, or even the N64, because it will have a larger install base than the both of them.

Let's all make Suda change his mind by buying and loving the cr*p out of his game!!! :PSikzak

It's made me want to do the opposite.

I was on the fence about this game but now even I'm thinking "no thanks" just because Suda is a brat that cries about problems instead of trying to fix them.

Nintendo games sell well because they have a tendency to be really good. 3rd party games aren't selling well because...well...most of them suck. It's absurd to blame consumers for not buying crappy games, I don't buy that argument for a second.

I have absolutely no preference for Nintendo games over other developers. If they could get their heads out of their a**es and make a good game, I would love to buy it. For whatever reason 3rd party developers seem to think they can cut corners on the Wii and it should still sell as well. Today I learned that Worms (which I was looking forward to) will not have online. Guess what? That means I'm not buying it. It has nothing to do with them being a third party, it has to do with their dumb decision. Zack and Wiki, for another example; good game with a totally unappealing art style. Who looks at the cover of that game and wants to buy it?

In other words, how about 3rd party devs do a little less whining and a little more intelligent game design.

Sorry for the rant...

Ok again you're trying to make the argument that we're screwed because Nintendo is such a competent developer and I just don't buy it.Jaysonguy

We are not screwed just because Nintendo is a great developer. We are screwed because consumers are so dependent on Nintendo that they won't put their money anywhere else. They'll even buy the subpar Nintendo games like Mario Party 8. They'll buy a bad first party game before a good third party game. That has never been true for any other console except the ones made by Nintendo.

Who makes the number one game for each "other" console? They're both first party.

Who makes the number two game for each "other" console? They're both first party.Jaysonguy

That may be true now but it is not always true and doesn't have to be the norm. Look at the PS2, the most successful console of all time. This console was dominated by third party games and was a success because of it. The franchises that drove this console were Grand Theft Auto, Metal Gear Solid, and Final Fantasy. Those are all third party.

Can you also say that the Wii's owners give a dev an opportunity to sell it's title no matter what genre it is? Yes you can say that too.Jaysonguy

That's only true if the game is made by Nintendo.

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]He is correct, though. Most 3rd party games have horrible sales on the Wii, while 3rd parties find success on that other console. It's quite a shame when I see one of the best selling 3rd party titles is Carnival Games.:|Jaysonguy

Not true, if you're going to debate don't make up the numbers yourself.

The top ten third party games for the Wii are...

Mario & Sonic At the Olympics

Resident Evil 4

Guitar Hero

Ryaman 1

Red Steel

Sonic and the Secret Rings

Tiger Woods

Resident Evil Umbrella ella ella Chronicles

MySims

Lego Star Wars

Oh ten not enough for you? Then top 11-20 games on the Wii are

Rayman 2

Cooking Mama

Trauma Center Second Opinion

High School Musical

Dragon Quest Swords

WWE Smackdown

Simpsons

FIFA

Spider-Man

Madden

Sadly, the majority of those titles are selling quite poorly compared to third party games on other consoles. Once again, you're inflating the success. It's well known that the majority of third party game sales are struggling. Note: Majority.

[QUOTE="Sikzak"]Let's all make Suda change his mind by buying and loving the cr*p out of his game!!! :PJaysonguy

It's made me want to do the opposite.

I was on the fence about this game but now even I'm thinking "no thanks" just because Suda is a brat that cries about problems instead of trying to fix them.

How can he possibly fix this issue? He can't tell the gamers or casuals where to put their dollar. It looks like Suda has made a great game, judging by reviews so far. Now it's in the hands of the gamers and casuals. He can't do anything else other than hope that Wii'ers stop buying toilet filth (Carnival Games) and support great games.

By not supporting Suda and this great game, you're just hurting the industry.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="Sikzak"]Let's all make Suda change his mind by buying and loving the cr*p out of his game!!! :PBioShockOwnz

It's made me want to do the opposite.

I was on the fence about this game but now even I'm thinking "no thanks" just because Suda is a brat that cries about problems instead of trying to fix them.

How can he possibly fix this issue? He can't tell the gamers or casuals where to put their dollar. It looks like Suda has made a great game, judging by reviews so far. Now it's in the hands of the gamers and casuals. He can't do anything else other than hope that Wii'ers stop buying toilet filth (Carnival Games) and support great games.

By not supporting Suda and this great game, you're just hurting the industry.

First of all the game isn't even out yet so don't say it's great.

It's a game waiting to be released just like every other game that's not here yet.

As for what can he do? Isn't this game rated mature? So right off the bat he's done a great job of cutting out one part of the potential customers. Grand idea, why sell to everyone when you can sell to only part of them!

What else does this fool like to do? He likes to add artsy themes to his games that didn't work well last time because

1. The people who play mature games because of the blood thinking they'll be moved up the adult ladder hate the art part

2. The people who love the artsy parts of the games don't agree with the over the top violence.

What's next on Suda's list? Open a restaurant but only keep it open an Tuesday mornings from 4 to 7:30 am then complain that customers don't go to it and blame the city?

This isn't a great game, it's not even a good game, it's a "to be determined" game and this guy better step into place and do it quickly or he's going to get a rep for all the wrong reasons.

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]He is correct, though. Most 3rd party games have horrible sales on the Wii, while 3rd parties find success on that other console. It's quite a shame when I see one of the best selling 3rd party titles is Carnival Games.:|Jaysonguy

Not true, if you're going to debate don't make up the numbers yourself.

The top ten third party games for the Wii are...

Mario & Sonic At the Olympics

Resident Evil 4

Guitar Hero

Ryaman 1

Red Steel

Sonic and the Secret Rings

Tiger Woods

Resident Evil Umbrella ella ella Chronicles

MySims

Lego Star Wars

Oh ten not enough for you? Then top 11-20 games on the Wii are

Rayman 2

Cooking Mama

Trauma Center Second Opinion

High School Musical

Dragon Quest Swords

WWE Smackdown

Simpsons

FIFA

Spider-Man

Madden

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="Sikzak"]Let's all make Suda change his mind by buying and loving the cr*p out of his game!!! :PJaysonguy

It's made me want to do the opposite.

I was on the fence about this game but now even I'm thinking "no thanks" just because Suda is a brat that cries about problems instead of trying to fix them.

How can he possibly fix this issue? He can't tell the gamers or casuals where to put their dollar. It looks like Suda has made a great game, judging by reviews so far. Now it's in the hands of the gamers and casuals. He can't do anything else other than hope that Wii'ers stop buying toilet filth (Carnival Games) and support great games.

By not supporting Suda and this great game, you're just hurting the industry.

First of all the game isn't even out yet so don't say it's great.

It's a game waiting to be released just like every other game that's not here yet.

As for what can he do? Isn't this game rated mature? So right off the bat he's done a great job of cutting out one part of the potential customers. Grand idea, why sell to everyone when you can sell to only part of them!

What else does this fool like to do? He likes to add artsy themes to his games that didn't work well last time because

1. The people who play mature games because of the blood thinking they'll be moved up the adult ladder hate the art part

2. The people who love the artsy parts of the games don't agree with the over the top violence.

What's next on Suda's list? Open a restaurant but only keep it open an Tuesday mornings from 4 to 7:30 am then complain that customers don't go to it and blame the city?

This isn't a great game, it's not even a good game, it's a "to be determined" game and this guy better step into place and do it quickly or he's going to get a rep for all the wrong reasons.

Sorry, pal. I think professional reviews hold more weight than your "wait & see" approach, as if one review is the definitive truth.:roll: Its already been reviewed by sources with credibility, and it received a high score.

Also, what's the deal with the mature argument? Most of the highest selling games are Mature. MGS, GTA, Halo, GeoW and so on.

You obviously want this game to fail because you hold some odd grudge with Suda. :|

It's the fault of the consumers. They only buy first party titles and then wonder why third party support is so bad. It won't matter that Wii is the top selling console if third party titles don't sell. Right now the PS3 and 360 third party software is the outselling the Wii in America. If this doesn't change, third parties are just going to drop the Wii just like they did to the Gamecube and N64. It's up to Wii owners to change this.

Rocky32189

although these is some truth to what u say, overall i have to disagree. most 3rd parties are failing to deliver good games....the wii is swamped by crap as a result. why should i, as a consumer, pay good money for a crap title? also when they do release a good title....they completly fail to promote it. zack and wiki got 0 on the support front. capcom just released it and....thats it.

if 3rd parties want more attention from the wiis market then they simply have to step up. weve seen what happens when they actually do (even red steel, a game with many problems, boke a million, as did RE4 wii edition, a game released on 2 other consoles before). they need to do alot better than cramming existing game ideas and designs into the wii, slap on some mini games and release.

if 3rd parties start releasing great games and they start promoting them properly and the game still sells badly, then we can perhaps start blaming consumers. but until 3rd parties get their act together...frankly they can pike off. i will not buy crap just to make a consoles sales look better to a publisher and nor should anyone else. it sends out all the wrong messages.

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="Sikzak"]Let's all make Suda change his mind by buying and loving the cr*p out of his game!!! :PJaysonguy

It's made me want to do the opposite.

I was on the fence about this game but now even I'm thinking "no thanks" just because Suda is a brat that cries about problems instead of trying to fix them.

How can he possibly fix this issue? He can't tell the gamers or casuals where to put their dollar. It looks like Suda has made a great game, judging by reviews so far. Now it's in the hands of the gamers and casuals. He can't do anything else other than hope that Wii'ers stop buying toilet filth (Carnival Games) and support great games.

By not supporting Suda and this great game, you're just hurting the industry.

First of all the game isn't even out yet so don't say it's great.

It's a game waiting to be released just like every other game that's not here yet.

As for what can he do? Isn't this game rated mature? So right off the bat he's done a great job of cutting out one part of the potential customers. Grand idea, why sell to everyone when you can sell to only part of them!

What else does this fool like to do? He likes to add artsy themes to his games that didn't work well last time because

1. The people who play mature games because of the blood thinking they'll be moved up the adult ladder hate the art part

2. The people who love the artsy parts of the games don't agree with the over the top violence.

What's next on Suda's list? Open a restaurant but only keep it open an Tuesday mornings from 4 to 7:30 am then complain that customers don't go to it and blame the city?

This isn't a great game, it's not even a good game, it's a "to be determined" game and this guy better step into place and do it quickly or he's going to get a rep for all the wrong reasons.

Jaysonguy is just mad cause it is a good game and he just thinks differently from the majority. No one asagreed with him in this thread, reviewes say its good, People who have played and beaten have said its great, I also say its very good (which doesnt count as much).

It I think youre a little stuck up by saying that you're not going to buy it just because SUDA is saying it hasnt sold well and that might be caused by the fact that Nintendo is marketing theirconsole to the causual, I mean its also ubisofts fault for not marketing to this game.

But the only thing you are complaing about is how people think they're more mature playing games with blood in it. Are you one of those people, if no then stop complaining you're not them so who cares, I dont think anyone on this board havegone "NMH is gonna be so cool cause of the cutting peoples in halves!"

Nintendo games sell well because they have a tendency to be really good. 3rd party games aren't selling well because...well...most of them suck. It's absurd to blame consumers for not buying crappy games, I don't buy that argument for a second.

I have absolutely no preference for Nintendo games over other developers. If they could get their heads out of their a**es and make a good game, I would love to buy it. For whatever reason 3rd party developers seem to think they can cut corners on the Wii and it should still sell as well. Today I learned that Worms (which I was looking forward to) will not have online. Guess what? That means I'm not buying it. It has nothing to do with them being a third party, it has to do with their dumb decision. Zack and Wiki, for another example; good game with a totally unappealing art style. Who looks at the cover of that game and wants to buy it?

In other words, how about 3rd party devs do a little less whining and a little more intelligent game design.

Sorry for the rant...

presto7640

Where did you hear that Worms will not have online?

Where did you hear that Worms will not have online?

token08

Off topic: http://wii.ign.com/articles/845/845431p1.html

Hopefully that link works

Sorry, pal. I think professional reviews hold more weight than your "wait & see" approach, as if one review is the definitive truth.:roll: Its already been reviewed by sources with credibility, and it received a high score.

BioShockOwnz

Jaysonguy is just mad cause it is a good game and he just thinks differently from the majority. No one asagreed with him in this thread, reviewes say its good, People who have played and beaten have said its great, I also say its very good (which doesnt count as much).

Minishdriveby

For both of you read this.

"Look around and you'll find a jagged-edged world and a framerate which favours hovering around the twenties once you hit high speeds on Travis' bike, but the minor technical faults will be picked on by only the most joyless of non-gamers."

I'm glad that Suda let's this kind of subrate quality control make sure his game is just a technical joy.

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]

Sorry, pal. I think professional reviews hold more weight than your "wait & see" approach, as if one review is the definitive truth.:roll: Its already been reviewed by sources with credibility, and it received a high score.

Jaysonguy

Jaysonguy is just mad cause it is a good game and he just thinks differently from the majority. No one asagreed with him in this thread, reviewes say its good, People who have played and beaten have said its great, I also say its very good (which doesnt count as much).

Minishdriveby

For both of you read this.

"Look around and you'll find a jagged-edged world and a framerate which favours hovering around the twenties once you hit high speeds on Travis' bike, but the minor technical faults will be picked on by only the most joyless of non-gamers."

I'm glad that Suda let's this kind of subrate quality control make sure his game is just a technical joy.

:roll::lol: Sorry, it's already been reviewed and it's a great game. That little quote doesn't mean squat. Mass Effect had technical issues out the whazoo and was still a great game. Anyways, you're just trolling and bashing, so it's not worth arguing. Go pick another fight.

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]

Sorry, pal. I think professional reviews hold more weight than your "wait & see" approach, as if one review is the definitive truth.:roll: Its already been reviewed by sources with credibility, and it received a high score.

Jaysonguy

Jaysonguy is just mad cause it is a good game and he just thinks differently from the majority. No one asagreed with him in this thread, reviewes say its good, People who have played and beaten have said its great, I also say its very good (which doesnt count as much).

Minishdriveby

For both of you read this.

"Look around and you'll find a jagged-edged world and a framerate which favours hovering around the twenties once you hit high speeds on Travis' bike, but the minor technical faults will be picked on by only the most joyless of non-gamers."

I'm glad that Suda let's this kind of subrate quality control make sure his game is just a technical joy.

okay well thanks for your opinion, at least you gave me another reason as to why you dont think you like it. Me on the other hand I know I like it, and the frame rate never bothered me, just like as shadow of the colossus's frame rate and jaggies never bothered me.

He is correct, though. Most 3rd party games have horrible sales on the Wii, while 3rd parties find success on that other console. It's quite a shame when I see one of the best selling 3rd party titles is Carnival Games.:|BioShockOwnz