Suda REALLY Needs To Apologize To Wii Owners

I finally got No More Heroes and it's nice to see that I was exactly right in what I said about the game (in my other thread "Should Suda Apologize To Wii Owners")

The game is good but it's only "good"

Suda berated the buying public because everyone passed over his game but he released a game with no polish

A lot of the game doesn't look that great. Not in the "I don't like the art direction" sort of way but in the....

"Hey does that look like a tree?"

"Kinda"

sort of way.

The game has frame rate issues, poor collision detection, and overall seems rushed.

Suda's got a good game on his hands but it's a shame he was unable to unearth it fully. Instead we get a sub par effort overall and instead of Suda apologizing for this effort he ripped everyone who didn't buy it. He decided to complain that his game is a wonderful game that everyone should own sight unseen. Of course when you see it many users go check the connections to their TV.

The thing is that when you release a game lacking this much polish people remember it and when they see No More Heroes 2 they're less likely to buy it.

So I guess if this does get a sequel we'll get to hear Suda complain again.

Well said!

I never actually bought, rented or played this game, because I knew this game was not that good...

And nobody will be able to convince me otherwise!:P

although i agree that the graphics department was in a way "lacking" i looked beyond that and the gameplay aspect of it was incredibly fun for me. the fighting was fun and the ability to go ape **** on everyone gives you a sense of power. the story was querky (hope i spelled it right) and the boss fights were cool and stylized ( i think). i think everyone realized the frame rate issues and all that, but its the art style that drew people into it, not the tech specs (after all, wii owners chose Wii over everything else for its gameplay, not graphics, am i right?).

Well said!

I never actually bought, rented or played this game, because I knew this game was not that good...

And nobody will be able to convince me otherwise!:P

shadimoscouplos

Your loss.

[QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"]

Well said!

I never actually bought, rented or played this game, because I knew this game was not that good...

And nobody will be able to convince me otherwise!:P

X_Evo

Your loss.

Haha!:lol: Your funny:lol:

Explain to me exactly what I am losing? A screen full of blood? Ugly, choppy graphics? Yeah the great gameplay, but the idea isn't really that great(In my opinion).

although i agree that the graphics department was in a way "lacking" i looked beyond that and the gameplay aspect of it was incredibly fun for me. the fighting was fun and the ability to go ape **** on everyone gives you a sense of power. the story was querky (hope i spelled it right) and the boss fights were cool and stylized ( i think). i think everyone realized the frame rate issues and all that, but its the art style that drew people into it, not the tech specs (after all, wii owners chose Wii over everything else for its gameplay, not graphics, am i right?).

icarus212001

I agree it's a good game

It's got a very distinct art style but like I just can't say enough it's not polished. It's like ok a game like Katamari Damacy is very fun in a very basic package, No More Heroes is a fun game in a "awww you almost did it" sort of package.

The entire time I play the game I just keep on thinking how this is a good concept that just didn't make the grade. Normally I wouldn't even mind that much because the Wii is a hard console to nail down when you develop for it. In No More Heroes' case you don't have problems with the controls but instead you have problems with the stuff devs are supposed to fix before the game is released. There shouldn't be frame rate issues in a game that looks like this.

Like all we hear from Suda is that we snatch up Mario titles but his title goes left on the shelves. Well Nintendo polishes their titles and has no problem delaying a game to hammer out some kinks in the gameplay.

Suda on the other hand either takes no time to polish his games, doesn't understand how to polish a game, or just doesn't understand what the word polish means.

I don't understand why he owes us an apology.CheeChee_Macko

start by reading the first post...or his original thread

I don't understand why he owes us an apology.CheeChee_Macko

Ok, he said Nintendo owners were prety much mindless and couldn't know his game was wonderful

He said Nintendo owners buy Mario titles instead of his title.

He failed to understand that he doesn't make games as GOOD as Mario (or second party or even some third party) and that's why people don't buy the game.

[QUOTE="X_Evo"][QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"]

Well said!

I never actually bought, rented or played this game, because I knew this game was not that good...

And nobody will be able to convince me otherwise!:P

shadimoscouplos

Your loss.

Haha!:lol: Your funny:lol:

Explain to me exactly what I am losing? A screen full of blood? Ugly, choppy graphics? Yeah the great gameplay, but the idea isn't really that great(In my opinion).

you cant really say anything without playing it making your opinion on the game void until you do. thats like writing a review about a movie from only watching a trailer.

[QUOTE="CheeChee_Macko"]I don't understand why he owes us an apology.Jaysonguy

Ok, he said Nintendo owners were prety much mindless and couldn't know his game was wonderful

He said Nintendo owners buy Mario titles instead of his title.

He failed to understand that he doesn't make games as GOOD as Mario (or second party or even some third party) and that's why people don't buy the game.

...couldve also been the lack of marketing. i mean look at 50 Cent's Bulletproof. need i say more?

Jay, the only reason you don't like Suda is because they dissed Nintendo when NMH didn't sel well. And besides, just because you didn't like a game, doesn't mean they need to apologise to anyone. Loads of reviewers disagree with you, and you need to recognise that your opinions aren't fact.
I'll bet that if NMH was a first party title you'd be all over it like the second coming of Jesus.
hazbazz

It's not that I don't like the game. I like the game and I think it's a good game.

Nothing I'm talking about is an opinion though. Frame rate issues and collision detection aren't an opinion, it's something that's in the game. The problems aren't with the art direction(which I've always liked) it's how well the graphics actually operate glitch free in the game.

Yes, I'm not a big fan of Suda because he said his title is of the same quality of first party titles. These mistakes that are in the game are removed by most devs. The ones that leave these problems in are usually named "shovelware" devs in here.

[QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"][QUOTE="X_Evo"][QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"]

Well said!

I never actually bought, rented or played this game, because I knew this game was not that good...

And nobody will be able to convince me otherwise!:P

icarus212001

Your loss.

Haha!:lol: Your funny:lol:

Explain to me exactly what I am losing? A screen full of blood? Ugly, choppy graphics? Yeah the great gameplay, but the idea isn't really that great(In my opinion).

you cant really say anything without playing it making your opinion on the game void until you do. thats like writing a review about a movie from only watching a trailer.

So your trying to say I should ignore the trailers, and videos, and spend $50 on a game that I think looks horrible. I don't think so, you could if you like but Im straight.

I like to study my games before I buy them, so I make sure what I am getting.

The open world was kind of a mess. The shadows slowed down the framerate.

But that's the only part to complain about really, technical wise.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="CheeChee_Macko"]I don't understand why he owes us an apology.icarus212001

Ok, he said Nintendo owners were prety much mindless and couldn't know his game was wonderful

He said Nintendo owners buy Mario titles instead of his title.

He failed to understand that he doesn't make games as GOOD as Mario (or second party or even some third party) and that's why people don't buy the game.

...couldve also been the lack of marketing. i mean look at 50 Cent's Bulletproof. need i say more?

Yeah but even in circles like this one people aren't buying the game.

I mean I told people I didn't want them to get it until it was reduced in price because I refuse to get the game full price.

I think over time it'll be a million seller but there's a lot of titles that people pick over this.

[QUOTE="icarus212001"][QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"][QUOTE="X_Evo"][QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"]

Well said!

I never actually bought, rented or played this game, because I knew this game was not that good...

And nobody will be able to convince me otherwise!:P

shadimoscouplos

Your loss.

Haha!:lol: Your funny:lol:

Explain to me exactly what I am losing? A screen full of blood? Ugly, choppy graphics? Yeah the great gameplay, but the idea isn't really that great(In my opinion).

you cant really say anything without playing it making your opinion on the game void until you do. thats like writing a review about a movie from only watching a trailer.

So your trying to say I should ignore the trailers, and videos, and spend $50 on a game that I think looks horrible. I don't think so, you could if you like but Im straight.

I like to study my games before I buy them, so I make sure what I am getting.

and you think i dont? i dont randomly buy games. but if your iffy about it, thats what RENTING is for. you spend a fifth of the price to check it out. you dont have to buy it, just know what you are talking about instead of assuming things, which is what you are doing.

Suda51: "This game will be gorier than Manhunt 2"

"No More Heroes for Japan will be censored"

Suda51: "Only the Japanese version will be censored"

"No More Heroes for Europe will also be censored"

Suda51: "There are 2 differrent versions, we chose to release the Japanese version to the expanding Wii audience in Europe" /add more BS

Then; No More Heroes flopping in Japan

Suda51: "Third parties dont make benefit on the Wii"

What did I learn from this? Suda51 is full of it.

Suda51: "This game will be gorier than Manhunt 2"

"No More Heroes for Japan will be censored"

Suda51: "Only the Japanese version will be censored"

"No More Heroes for Europe will also be censored"

Suda51: "There are 2 differrent versions, we chose to release the Japanese version to the expanding Wii audience in Europe" /add more BS

Then; No More Heroes flopping in Japan

Suda51: "Third parties dont make benefit on the Wii"

What did I learn from this? Suda51 is full of it.

GameOverKayo

Hm, maybe that's why he said he's considering a sequel for Wii...

I thought that quote he said was a misunderstanding from translation? Can't find a link through...m_machine024

The guy is BSing non-stop I doubt it was a misunderstanding. He was also playing cool saying that his plan was to release NMH for 360 and that he wanted to make games for 360 etc. Kinda like threatning Nintendo that he would switch sides if his games didnt sell well.

[QUOTE="icarus212001"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="CheeChee_Macko"]I don't understand why he owes us an apology.Jaysonguy

Ok, he said Nintendo owners were prety much mindless and couldn't know his game was wonderful

He said Nintendo owners buy Mario titles instead of his title.

He failed to understand that he doesn't make games as GOOD as Mario (or second party or even some third party) and that's why people don't buy the game.

...couldve also been the lack of marketing. i mean look at 50 Cent's Bulletproof. need i say more?

Yeah but even in circles like this one people aren't buying the game.

I mean I told people I didn't want them to get it until it was reduced in price because I refuse to get the game full price.

I think over time it'll be a million seller but there's a lot of titles that people pick over this.

i think it has mostly to do with advertising, either way. I mean, you gotta at least agree that some multi-million selling games are not worth it at all, despite who buys it, whereas more deserving games get left in the dust (may you rest in piece Beyond Good and Evil). marketing has a huge part in it because it helps raise awareness in people as to whether or not they'll end up enjoying it.

? That is the exact comments he made? GameOverKayo

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6184700.html

Suda told GameSpot that what he really wants to do now is to make a sequel. When asked what games he was working on right now, he laughed, "It's a secret!" Then he confessed, "Actually, I'm really willing to make a sequel version--and right now I'm asking if it can be made...I think No More Heroes is a great game, there's no other action game like it for the Wii. If it was a band, it would be really energetic, like the Arctic Monkeys."

I don't mean to be rude, but the way you 'guessed' Suda's intentions was really harsh from you.

[QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"][QUOTE="icarus212001"][QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"][QUOTE="X_Evo"][QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"]

Well said!

I never actually bought, rented or played this game, because I knew this game was not that good...

And nobody will be able to convince me otherwise!:P

icarus212001

Your loss.

Haha!:lol: Your funny:lol:

Explain to me exactly what I am losing? A screen full of blood? Ugly, choppy graphics? Yeah the great gameplay, but the idea isn't really that great(In my opinion).

you cant really say anything without playing it making your opinion on the game void until you do. thats like writing a review about a movie from only watching a trailer.

So your trying to say I should ignore the trailers, and videos, and spend $50 on a game that I think looks horrible. I don't think so, you could if you like but Im straight.

I like to study my games before I buy them, so I make sure what I am getting.

and you think i dont? i dont randomly buy games. but if your iffy about it, thats what RENTING is for. you spend a fifth of the price to check it out. you dont have to buy it, just know what you are talking about instead of assuming things, which is what you are doing.

Did you not get the part about opinion? Im saying after viewing all about this game, its not what I am looking for. I really don't want to see blood flying around my whole TV screen. Yeah, its only graphics, but still its ugly and there are coins coming out with the blood from some dudes head.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa79/cyn0113/no-more-heroes-20071206060049153.jpg

What's that?

i dont think so i think suda is right we should support games like this if we want hardcore game otherwise third parties will be afraid to do games 4 wii

wii code:3525594684767085

pes2008 code:378089680348

[QUOTE="GameOverKayo"]? That is the exact comments he made? Wintry_Flutist

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6184700.html

Suda told GameSpot that what he really wants to do now is to make a sequel. When asked what games he was working on right now, he laughed, "It's a secret!" Then he confessed, "Actually, I'm really willing to make a sequel version--and right now I'm asking if it can be made...I think No More Heroes is a great game, there's no other action game like it for the Wii. If it was a band, it would be really energetic, like the Arctic Monkeys."

I don't mean to be rude, but the way you 'guessed' Suda's intentions was really harsh from you.

Well he said those exact quotes before the game started selling in US. He made false promises claiming that the gory version would be released in Europe and then censored it. Sounds like a unsure developer to me.

I thought the game was well done but it is sad that they did not tighten the screws in some obvious areas. i think the main reason why he should apologise is that this game was not marketed at all. He came out of no where with a game signing event. Did he ever realise that new IPs take alot of work to introduce. He like many developers blame lukeworm results of their games on the Wii audience. I think thats total BS when the game is not even selling that bad 240k sold, when there was terrible marketing, and the game was very niche and not to mentioned unpolished.

With that said I really wish there is a No More Heroes 2 because i can feel it in my gut that those quirky problems will easily be noticed in a seqyal. As a side note Suda is a visionary even if he is flawed on this one, he is also helping on Fatal Frame 4 so dont think he has abondoned the Wii audience even if he thinks we have abandoned him.

I had some minor complaints with some of the technical issues and a few of the gameplay design choices (I wish the free missions were more varied than the "one hit and you die" objectives), but otherwise I thought NMH was a great game! I wish there were more games like it out on the Wii, and I look forward to seeing a sequel.

I do NOT think Suda should apologize for anything! In fact, I don't think game developers should ever apologize for their games as long as they didn't force you to play. If you don't like it, don't play it! Bought it on a whim? Sell it and buy something else. I always thought it was crap that Peter Molyneux apologized that Fable didn't live up to all the hype it was supposed to; when you release a highly anticipated game, you're going to be excited about it's release and try to get as many cool things you can get in there as long as it doesn't interupt the game's budget or limitations. If things don't turn out exactly as planned, that's a shame, but you shouldn't say "sorry the game wasn't an epic A+ title". That's like saying "sorry my baby wasn't cute enough."

Jasonguy made some comment earlier about how Suda doesn't make games as good as the Mario series...when you look at the whole of the Mario francise, that may be true, but at least he goes for something different each time. I think I had more fun with NMH than Super Mario Galaxy, particially because it was such a new experience. I loved Galaxy, but it was basically mixing Super Mario 3 and Super Mario 64, with an improved Sunshine graphic engine. Fantastic game, but not exactly revoluntionary, especially if your a big Mario platformer fan.

[QUOTE="icarus212001"][QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"][QUOTE="icarus212001"][QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"][QUOTE="X_Evo"][QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"]

Well said!

I never actually bought, rented or played this game, because I knew this game was not that good...

And nobody will be able to convince me otherwise!:P

shadimoscouplos

Your loss.

Haha!:lol: Your funny:lol:

Explain to me exactly what I am losing? A screen full of blood? Ugly, choppy graphics? Yeah the great gameplay, but the idea isn't really that great(In my opinion).

you cant really say anything without playing it making your opinion on the game void until you do. thats like writing a review about a movie from only watching a trailer.

So your trying to say I should ignore the trailers, and videos, and spend $50 on a game that I think looks horrible. I don't think so, you could if you like but Im straight.

I like to study my games before I buy them, so I make sure what I am getting.

and you think i dont? i dont randomly buy games. but if your iffy about it, thats what RENTING is for. you spend a fifth of the price to check it out. you dont have to buy it, just know what you are talking about instead of assuming things, which is what you are doing.

Did you not get the part about opinion? Im saying after viewing all about this game, its not what I am looking for. I really don't want to see blood flying around my whole TV screen. Yeah, its only graphics, but still its ugly and there are coins coming out with the blood from some dudes head.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa79/cyn0113/no-more-heroes-20071206060049153.jpg

What's that?

...you tell me. but thats like saying "American Beauty is a crappy movie because i have seen all the trailers and none of them had an explosion. i give a -1002939 out of 10". you are just assuming that the game is bad because you've only seen it but never played it. because if you've played it, you'd realize that the blood squirting bits are done in a comical way, not in a "look at me! i'm teh h4rdc0r3z!"

Heres about the sequel:

Wow, this topic lacks any form of common sense. Just because you found flaws in the game, don't think every Wii owner who bought the game expects an apology from Suda or even deserves one. Please don't waste time by making these unneeded threads. UnclePhilTMND

are there frame rate issues in the game? yes or no?

and he never said everyone wants an apology. HE thinks that everyone is owed one because SUDA is blaming US for its low sales.

Heres about the sequel:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6184700.html

shadimoscouplos

your link doesnt work, dude

Wow, this topic lacks any form of common sense. Just because you found flaws in the game, don't think every Wii owner who bought the game expects an apology from Suda or even deserves one. Please don't waste time by making these unneeded threads. UnclePhilTMND

[QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"][QUOTE="icarus212001"][QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"][QUOTE="icarus212001"][QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"][QUOTE="X_Evo"][QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"]

Well said!

I never actually bought, rented or played this game, because I knew this game was not that good...

And nobody will be able to convince me otherwise!:P

icarus212001

Your loss.

Haha!:lol: Your funny:lol:

Explain to me exactly what I am losing? A screen full of blood? Ugly, choppy graphics? Yeah the great gameplay, but the idea isn't really that great(In my opinion).

you cant really say anything without playing it making your opinion on the game void until you do. thats like writing a review about a movie from only watching a trailer.

So your trying to say I should ignore the trailers, and videos, and spend $50 on a game that I think looks horrible. I don't think so, you could if you like but Im straight.

I like to study my games before I buy them, so I make sure what I am getting.

and you think i dont? i dont randomly buy games. but if your iffy about it, thats what RENTING is for. you spend a fifth of the price to check it out. you dont have to buy it, just know what you are talking about instead of assuming things, which is what you are doing.

Did you not get the part about opinion? Im saying after viewing all about this game, its not what I am looking for. I really don't want to see blood flying around my whole TV screen. Yeah, its only graphics, but still its ugly and there are coins coming out with the blood from some dudes head.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa79/cyn0113/no-more-heroes-20071206060049153.jpg

What's that?

...you tell me. but thats like saying "American Beauty is a crappy movie because i have seen all the trailers and none of them had an explosion. i give a -1002939 out of 10". you are just assuming that the game is bad because you've only seen it but never played it. because if you've played it, you'd realize that the blood squirting bits are done in a comical way, not in a "look at me! i'm teh h4rdc0r3z!"

I know about the comical graphics in the game. I considered buying this game when I first saw the gameplay footage. After looking through it more, Its not my type of game. So no, Im not going to rent it or buy it! I might try it though. I really don't want to try one of crazy Suda's games. I don't like how they make there games, graphic wise mainly. On a DS game I can accept a comical game, but for the Wii, I'll pass.

[QUOTE="UnclePhilTMND"]Wow, this topic lacks any form of common sense. Just because you found flaws in the game, don't think every Wii owner who bought the game expects an apology from Suda or even deserves one. Please don't waste time by making these unneeded threads. Lunar52

Its not about the flaws, its about him disrespecting the Wii owners.

[QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"]

Heres about the sequel:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6184700.html

icarus212001

your link doesnt work, dude

Sorry, try this

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6184700.html

[QUOTE="UnclePhilTMND"]Wow, this topic lacks any form of common sense. Just because you found flaws in the game, don't think every Wii owner who bought the game expects an apology from Suda or even deserves one. Please don't waste time by making these unneeded threads. icarus212001

are there frame rate issues in the game? yes or no?

and he never said everyone wants an apology. HE thinks that everyone is owed one because SUDA is blaming US for its low sales.

It was never like that though. What he said was along the lines of (in response to a question about the low sales numbers) NOT A DIRECT QUOTE "I was surprised because I thought by this time in the Wii's life there would be more people willing to try out a game like this." Meaning he thought that the "casuals" would be moving into more traditional games and the like after being introduced to video games. I really took no offense to his words, I saw no insult to Wii gamers in general there.

[QUOTE="Lunar52"][QUOTE="UnclePhilTMND"]Wow, this topic lacks any form of common sense. Just because you found flaws in the game, don't think every Wii owner who bought the game expects an apology from Suda or even deserves one. Please don't waste time by making these unneeded threads. GameOverKayo

Its not about the flaws, its about him disrespecting the Wii owners.