The grinder is completely doomed (on hd consoles). Safe on wii.

nobody who has played Left 4 Dead 1/2 would want to touch the grinder with a 100 foot pole, so the decision to completely re-design it was a smart one.

Pdiddy105

Wellllll this might be the biggest load of bullocks I've ever heard and it's obvious you don't know your games or gamers.

Both myself and one of my roommates have played the heck out of L4D 1 and 2 and he still owns 2. they rock. Both kick ass. I have been more intersted in The Grinder than I ever was for the excellent left 4 Dead.

Think about it; the gameplay is the same, 4 player online co op fps. The differences?

- Only zombies in L4D
- Zombies, Vampires AND Werewolves in the Grinder

- Standard "Me too" (as HVS themselves reffered to it as on the HD consoles) boring old dual analog control in L4D
- Evolutionary, precise immersive Wiimote and nunchul FPS control in the Grinder

The bottom line? The grinder has much more going for it than the already great Left 4 Dead series. Game set match :P

[QUOTE="gamenerd15"]

The game is not due out until almost 2 years from now and people are complaining about one screenshot? So basically the game will suck because first it won't be exclusive to the wii anymore, second because it became a top down shooter and not an FPS, third because HVS made it? People are sure weird about what games they are interested in.

GabuEx

How much vision can a game developer possibly have if they first decide on a whim to make it multiplatform, after explicitly stating in the past that they want to make games for the Wii, and then after having already shown videos of it as an FPS, decide to completely throw all that away because they decided there were too many FPSes in the 360/PS3 market (something that has, uh, always been the case) and make a completely different game while still attempting to retain the same name?

You can't seriously tell me that that chain of events gives you confidence in the level of quality and cohesiveness that the final title will possess. It's like HVS doesn't even know what they want to do.

A) Just because a company says they want to make games for the Wii doesn't mean they don't want to make games for other systems as well. They did state they wanted to make games for other systems if they were given funding.

B) The switch in style reminds me of the Dead Space Extraction fiasco. If they really wanted to make a different game, they should have made a different game.

I'd like them to come out and say what style of game they are putting on the Wii. I am quickly losing interest in two projects I had been extremely hyped about.

I don't understand why developers and publishers are having such a hard time figuring out the Wii. Just make good games, not "B" games stamped with an "M" rating (and then complain when they don't sell well).

People are already bashing a game's only screenshot of an extremely early build.gamenerd15

We've seen more than one screenshot. Search around for videos of the 360 version from GDC. It looks strikingly similar to a $3 iPhone game.

How about people actually express their hatred after the game is actually out?gamenerd15

A few people tried to warn everyone about The Conduit before it was released, and it turned out that we were right about it. Most people ended up recognizing The Conduit as a mediocre attempt at imitation and ultimately as a major disappointment. The same thing could play out with The Grinder, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm not really going to bother with warnings this time around. I'll just let the "fool me twice" principle play itself out.

But I have a feeling most people aren't being fooled whatsoever. And to HVS's credit, it doesn't seem like they're trying very hard to do that any more. Watch some of their GDC interviews. They're saying very, very different things now than they did two years ago.

Sure, HVS has done low-budget, rush job license games for most of their existence... but what does that say about the team that they are more than happy to do that?

GabuEx

[QUOTE="gamenerd15"]

Stuff like this happens in the industry all the time. Maybe not at this level but 80% of the games we play do not start out the way they finish. Let me give you some examples, I don't care if you love or hate the specific games.

Ratchet and Clank started out as girl with a stick. Warhawk did not start out as a multiplayer game and they switched gears halfway through. People are freaking out over a game that won't even be completed and distributed in the fall of 2011. People are already bashing a game's only screenshot of an extremely early build. How about people actually express their hatred after the game is actually out?

I just find it odd that people claim to have bought the Wii because it wasn't all about shooters and now they are complaining because the grinder could no longer be a first person shooter. They claim that the Wii needs more of them even though they did not want to play those types of games. I am just pointing out what goes on in this forum.

You have got 3 Call of Duty's Medal of Honor Heroes 2, Red Steel 2, and Metroid for first person shooter or action game. You also have the Conduit which the critics in general said was worth playing to some degree. Everybody just decided the game was crap and did not give it a chance.

There is at least one topic per week on this forum on why can't wii get similar or the same games as the other systems. Now people are getting the same thing and complaints arise. Going multiplat is not rare anymore. It happened to both the other systems so why is the Wii so special? FF 13, Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Bioshock, Star Ocean, and Tekken 6 all went multiplat. It's the nature of things these. Now it's the Wii's turn to lose exclusives. It goes three ways.

Give the game a chance and wish for the best. Who wants a game to suck? no one.

GabuEx

First, and this is more a question in general than directed at you: why do people always equate "this game will suck" with "I want this game to suck", or more generally, why do people equate statements about what one feels will be the case with statements about what one wants to be the case? Whether or not I want the game to suck has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the game will suck.

And sure, games change from their initial conception. But not in the way that the Grinder has changed. They already demoed the game to the public as a first-person shooter. It's not as though this change happened behind closed doors; HVS came out and said, "look, here's what we got", then after having done that they decided both that it would be multiplat and that it would not be an FPS. To demo a game to the public and then to completely change it after having done that? That's just weird, and I can't help but feel that it betrays a lack of planning, due diligence, and drive to make the game as perfect as possible before releasing it.

lol true, but to be completely fair to them the bulk of their resume is comprised of low budget, rush job license games. Show me anybody who crafted a fine resume of license games in the modern era and I'll show a dog who can do fractions :P When it comes to making the game multiplat a move like that is probably from the publisher(probably Sega again). Its believable that Sega looked at The Conduit and said "Well we cant do that again, lets go multiplat" then they looked and said "Oh wait now were going against CoD, MoH, Halo, probably L4D? Screw that" lol and then they pulled back on the FPS idea. Even if it isn't Sega, publishers they were shopping it around to could have told them, they would be more interested if it were multiplat. Regardless of whoever made the decision, it was not a wise decision, I cant think this top down thing was to smart either. I don't see Sony or MS using this for a stage demo at this years E3 lol.

Sepewrath

Sure, HVS has done low-budget, rush job license games for most of their existence... but what does that say about the team that they are more than happy to do that?

Because you don't know whether the game will suck. You can't evidence to suggest it other than some very early build of the game. The game is not do out until over a year from now. People are suggesting that just because a company has made somewhat meh games in the past that they will continue to make bad games. An example of the opposite happening would be free radical. That whole team was responsible for some great things last generation only to make haze and screw their record up, which put them out of business. A lot of people that were part of free radical used to be part of Rare back in the Goldeneye days.

Yes in other words people are not giving this game a shot despite it's extremely early development and I think it is a bit shallow for people to be doing so. Other than an early build you no one knows anything.

Because you don't know whether the game will suck. You can't evidence to suggest it other than some very early build of the game. The game is not do out until over a year from now. People are suggesting that just because a company has made somewhat meh games in the past that they will continue to make bad games. Yes in other words people are not giving this game a shot despite it's extremely early development and I think it is a bit shallow for people to be doing so. Other than an early build you no one knows anything.gamenerd15

And Free Radical is kind of a bad example because only a couple people from the Goldeneye days survived to Free Radical for Haze, one of which was the director (David Doak) and the other was an audio guy (Graeme Norgate), and Doak didn't really have as big of a role in either Goldeneye or Perfect Dark.

So even if HVS isn't the same as it was ten years ago when it was making bad games, we know that it's the same as it was one year ago when it made The Conduit.

We don't have confirmation yet whether or not the Wii version will be made into a top down shooter.

Well I don't like top down shooters, so I will definitely stay away from the HD versions of the Grinder.

If they decide to keep the Wii version a FPS--then it's all good--if not--forget it. Something tells that the Wii version will remain a FPS since so much has been vested in it already.

I think HVS realized that they don't have the skill or resources to compete with FPS franchises on the 360/PS3. So they went a safer route and went into a different genre. Since FPS are not saturated on the Wii and there is room to grow in that genre on the Wii--HVS may very well keep the Wii version as a FPS.

Tri-Enforcer

Now if HVS keeps the wii version a FPS, i will explode with happiness. About time a dev. crapped on the HD consoles for a multiplat and gave the wii the best deal. But im really mad that they even went multi plat.

well at least now I don't have to decide whether to get it on PC or Wii...

[QUOTE="Pdiddy105"]

nobody who has played Left 4 Dead 1/2 would want to touch the grinder with a 100 foot pole, so the decision to completely re-design it was a smart one.

Darth-Samus

Wellllll this might be the biggest load of bullocks I've ever heard and it's obvious you don't know your games or gamers.

Both myself and one of my roommates have played the heck out of L4D 1 and 2 and he still owns 2. they rock. Both kick ass. I have been more intersted in The Grinder than I ever was for the excellent left 4 Dead.

Think about it; the gameplay is the same, 4 player online co op fps. The differences?

- Only zombies in L4D
- Zombies, Vampires AND Werewolves in the Grinder

- Standard "Me too" (as HVS themselves reffered to it as on the HD consoles) boring old dual analog control in L4D
- Evolutionary, precise immersive Wiimote and nunchul FPS control in the Grinder

The bottom line? The grinder has much more going for it than the already great Left 4 Dead series. Game set match :P

O' contrare my friend. The Left 4 Dead series has one ace up its sleeve, and that is the fact that it is made by Valve and everybody know that Valve>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HVS. It is fact and facts can not be debated:wink:

[QUOTE="Darth-Samus"]

[QUOTE="Pdiddy105"]

nobody who has played Left 4 Dead 1/2 would want to touch the grinder with a 100 foot pole, so the decision to completely re-design it was a smart one.

gamefan67

Wellllll this might be the biggest load of bullocks I've ever heard and it's obvious you don't know your games or gamers.

Both myself and one of my roommates have played the heck out of L4D 1 and 2 and he still owns 2. they rock. Both kick ass. I have been more intersted in The Grinder than I ever was for the excellent left 4 Dead.

Think about it; the gameplay is the same, 4 player online co op fps. The differences?

- Only zombies in L4D
- Zombies, Vampires AND Werewolves in the Grinder

- Standard "Me too" (as HVS themselves reffered to it as on the HD consoles) boring old dual analog control in L4D
- Evolutionary, precise immersive Wiimote and nunchul FPS control in the Grinder

The bottom line? The grinder has much more going for it than the already great Left 4 Dead series. Game set match :P

O' contrare my friend. The Left 4 Dead series has one ace up its sleeve, and that is the fact that it is made by Valve and everybody know that Valve>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HVS. It is fact and facts can not be debated:wink:

100% agreed, Valve is amazing and HVS is well, I'll just leave it at that :P

[QUOTE="Darth-Samus"]

[QUOTE="Pdiddy105"]

nobody who has played Left 4 Dead 1/2 would want to touch the grinder with a 100 foot pole, so the decision to completely re-design it was a smart one.

gamefan67

Wellllll this might be the biggest load of bullocks I've ever heard and it's obvious you don't know your games or gamers.

Both myself and one of my roommates have played the heck out of L4D 1 and 2 and he still owns 2. they rock. Both kick ass. I have been more intersted in The Grinder than I ever was for the excellent left 4 Dead.

Think about it; the gameplay is the same, 4 player online co op fps. The differences?

- Only zombies in L4D
- Zombies, Vampires AND Werewolves in the Grinder

- Standard "Me too" (as HVS themselves reffered to it as on the HD consoles) boring old dual analog control in L4D
- Evolutionary, precise immersive Wiimote and nunchul FPS control in the Grinder

The bottom line? The grinder has much more going for it than the already great Left 4 Dead series. Game set match :P

O' contrare my friend. The Left 4 Dead series has one ace up its sleeve, and that is the fact that it is made by Valve and everybody know that Valve>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HVS. It is fact and facts can not be debated:wink:

You are right about that. Playing left 4 dead feels good. They put a lot into making that game feel fresh.

My hopes are back up for this game now.

The PS360 version looks like something I'd perhaps rent. The Wii version looks as awful as The Conduit.

No, The Grinder is still doomed and was doomed from the start. Let's not forget who's still developing the game.wiifan001

[QUOTE="wiifan001"]No, The Grinder is still doomed and was doomed from the start. Let's not forget who's still developing the game.Pices

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="wiifan001"]No, The Grinder is still doomed and was doomed from the start. Let's not forget who's still developing the game.wiifan001

[QUOTE="wiifan001"][QUOTE="Pices"] Nice...judge a game without playing itPices

The PS360 version looks like something I'd perhaps rent. The Wii version looks as awful as The Conduit.

MangaPicture

I actually agree with this, I love games like gautlent (dont think theirs enough of them) and am actually ineterested in the HD version of this game for that, as long as its xbla or psn and cheap which it most likely will be as thats the smartest most profitable buisness move imo.

As for the Wii version, it looks super meh to me, its an fps (like their isnt enough of those on the market) and its whole "unique" edge its going for was already done (and extremely well btw) in Left for Dead 1 & 2, both games I already own.

So unless by some amazing miracle HVS outdoes Valve with both the gameplay and the online experience on the wii than I have no interest, and if they do than I probably still won't get this game as it will be the end of the world and I really dont feel like going down playing video gamez :P

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="wiifan001"] Yep. Problem?wiifan001

[QUOTE="MangaPicture"]

The PS360 version looks like something I'd perhaps rent. The Wii version looks as awful as The Conduit.

kenakuma

I actually agree with this, I love games like gautlent (dont think theirs enough of them) and am actually ineterested in the HD version of this game for that, as long as its xbla or psn and cheap which it most likely will be as thats the smartest most profitable buisness move imo.

As for the Wii version, it looks super meh to me, its an fps (like their isnt enough of those on the market) and its whole "unique" edge its going for was already done (and extremely well btw) in Left for Dead 1 & 2, both games I already own.

So unless by some amazing miracle HVS outdoes Valve with both the gameplay and the online experience on the wii than I have no interest, and if they do than I probably still won't get this game as it will be the end of the world and I really dont feel like going down playing video gamez :P

Funny thing is that you have judge games by playing them, not by looks. It isn't a picture or a movie

[QUOTE="wiifan001"][QUOTE="Pices"] Yes...you can't judge it that way and you're losing creditabilityPices

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="wiifan001"] I see High Voltage making another FPS title. The Conduit was poor game with a couple good qualities, rather than a good game with a couple poor qualitites. I was lucky to play Gyrostarr at another person's house and am pleased to say I didn't invest my money there either...which is why I was lucky, because I didn't own it. The Grinder is now HVS splitting up its team to make this game go multiplat. So WiiMotion Plus is added. As the reviewer of The Conduit here at GS said: "Good controls aren't enough to reccomend this game," and man was he right. The Grinder will be only be slightly up to The Conduit...if that, but that's not saying much.wiifan001

Little do you know that they actually improved some stuff from The Conduit and applied to The Grinder? Like destructible environments for examplePices

Funny thing is that you have judge games by playing them, not by looks. It isn't a picture or a movie

Pices

So your saying just looking at pictures of the grinder isn't enough to judge wether its an top down shooter or fps, I actually have to play those games to come to those conclusions? okay :roll:

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="wiifan001"] Yep. Problem?wiifan001

I agree with wiifan 100% with his assumptions and where he is coming from with them.

Lets say hypothetically their is a movie company that for 15+ years straight does nothing but release movies that range from being just barely average and passable to God awful. Now when this movie company announces that they are coming out with a new movie, aren't critics and viewers justified in writing the movie off as a probable failure after witnessing their past performances? Or do they aproach the movie as if the studio is brand new with zero reputation and act like they have no idea what they are in for from this studio?

Another great example, lets say your the boss of a big lawfirm and you have an employe (lets call him Sam) who for the past 15+ years has handled all the projects you handed him with either and average turn-out or complete failure. Now as the boss you have a big new project to give to one of your employes. Are you gonna give it to Sam? When judging him as to how he will handle this new project if you give it to him will you look at his past performances or will you ignore all that and say "hey I cant judge how it will turn out if I give it to him because I haven't seen what he will do with it yet"! I think you know the answer......

[QUOTE="wiifan001"][QUOTE="Pices"] Conduit was a decent game, didn't live up to the hype. And the sequel shows that their correcting their wrongs. And The Grinder is gonna be released in late 2011, they have a lot of time to make it ready.Pices

wow... and I love the 2D gameplay on a 3D enviroment with that touch of switch to FPS... amazing.. just wow.. :)chang_1910

You sure your in the right thread dude?

It kinda sounds like your talking about Metroid Other M?

[QUOTE="chang_1910"]wow... and I love the 2D gameplay on a 3D enviroment with that touch of switch to FPS... amazing.. just wow.. :)kenakuma

You sure your in the right thread dude?

It kinda sounds like your talking about Metroid Other M?

[QUOTE="Pices"] Little do you know that they actually improved some stuff from The Conduit and applied to The Grinder? Like destructible environments for examplewiifan001

[QUOTE="Pices"]

Funny thing is that you have judge games by playing them, not by looks. It isn't a picture or a movie

So your saying just looking at pictures of the grinder isn't enough to judge wether its an top down shooter or fps, I actually have to play those games to come to those conclusions? okay :roll:

The overhead dungeon crawler thingy sounds a bit silly but I actually care more about that a new FPS from them...locopatho

[QUOTE="locopatho"]The overhead dungeon crawler thingy sounds a bit silly but I actually care more about that a new FPS from them...Pices

[QUOTE="Pices"][QUOTE="locopatho"]The overhead dungeon crawler thingy sounds a bit silly but I actually care more about that a new FPS from them...locopatho

I guess trying something new is actually goodPices

[QUOTE="chang_1910"]wow... and I love the 2D gameplay on a 3D enviroment with that touch of switch to FPS... amazing.. just wow.. :)kenakuma

You sure your in the right thread dude?

It kinda sounds like your talking about Metroid Other M?

Just Sayin'