The Zelda games
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Of course it does, its like saying the original Mario not being in HD should be an issue. The game was released 26yrs ago, if your playing an older game, you need to accept that its going to be tied to the standards of the era in which released, not the current era. If you play a SNES game and wonder why it doesn't have 3hrs of cutscenes, your out of your mind. So yes it not being an issue back then, means it continues to not be an issue. Especially since we're not talking about gameplay broken by time, we're talking about story presentation.
And the very fact that you say it should be an issue, is why its the best game to start with. Because if you view it as an issue, its going to be an even bigger issue, if you play after the modern games first. Here's an example, RE4 retained the tank controls of the older games and no one really complained, but when RE5 came out, post the TPS explosion, then it was a huge issue. The only way you can recommend someone starting out on the story focused Zelda's is if you believe the light story in the older games is a non issue. Otherwise, your basically rendering the older games unplayable i.e. RE5 as a TPS
The TC said they wanted to play them all, not simply the best one. So they would eventually play OoT anyway, saying its dated(which I don't agree with) is why it would be a good place to start. Yes the gaming industry has evolved, but games that are already made are stuck, unless their completely remade. Super Mario Bros 3 will never be anything more than Super Mario Bros 3. So if your playing that game for the first time this year, why would you go in expecting it to be like Galaxy 2, two games separated by 20yrs of industry growth? That's not being spoiled, that's just nonsensical behavior.
But if you believe them to be spoiled, why would you recommend they go backwards, to where your saying the games would be progressively getting worst? A dated game is an unplayable game, especially if your coming off a great experience, you'll have little patience for a game like that. Here's another example, a common thing is people play ME2 first and then go back and try and play ME1 and its a struggle to get through it for them. Obviously when it comes to ME, I would tell someone to play a story in order, but also to play ME1 first, so that the gameplay doesn't bother them post ME2. Essentially your telling them to only play Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess and ignore the rest of the series.
wait so, if i got this right, you think someone that wants to get in a series should start with the worse games because if they start with the better ones, the bad ones will feel even worse? what you're saying is pretty much "if you wanna get into metroid, start with metroid 2 and then move to the NES metroid. that way you won't play super metroid first, and that won't make the first two look bad". recommending a game because that will make the other ones feel better is an awful idea, because it relies on the best case scenario of the person not giving up on the series because of a bad first experience.The TC said they wanted to play them all, not simply the best one. So they would eventually play OoT anyway, saying its dated(which I don't agree with) is why it would be a good place to start. Yes the gaming industry has evolved, but games that are already made are stuck, unless their completely remade. Super Mario Bros 3 will never be anything more than Super Mario Bros 3. So if your playing that game for the first time this year, why would you go in expecting it to be like Galaxy 2, two games separated by 20yrs of industry growth? That's not being spoiled, that's just nonsensical behavior.
But if you believe them to be spoiled, why would you recommend they go backwards, to where your saying the games would be progressively getting worst? A dated game is an unplayable game, especially if your coming off a great experience, you'll have little patience for a game like that. Here's another example, a common thing is people play ME2 first and then go back and try and play ME1 and its a struggle to get through it for them. Obviously when it comes to ME, I would tell someone to play a story in order, but also to play ME1 first, so that the gameplay doesn't bother them post ME2. Essentially your telling them to only play Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess and ignore the rest of the series.
Sepewrath
I considered placing Skyward Sword above TP... then I went back and played Twilight Princess again.... still my favorite :)
EDIT:
Sorry I didn't even read OP. Thought this was just another favorite Zelda thread.
Play OoT first ... can't go wrong with that. Then I'd say WW, TP or SS are all safe bets... just pick the one that looks the most appealing to you and go for it.
Sarcasm right? I distinctly remember that you didn't like Twilight Princess.... and Zelda 2 is probably the worst of the ones made by Nintendo.Start at Zelda 2 to really get a feel for what the Zelda series has to offer, Zelda 2 spotlights all that's great about the franchise
Then go play Twilight Princess, that is a fantastic follow up to Zelda 2.
If I were you I'd avoid the rest of the games in the Zelda series, the two games I mentioned really stand out by themselves. The other games in the franchise really went in another direction.
Jaysonguy
Ocarina of Time (1998)- Started the 3D mold for action/adventure games. It establishes the series perfectly.
Majora's Mask (2000)- The most abstract, dark and twisted game in the series. I would recommend playing this after Ocarina of Time, but it's a more linear and existential game. Prepare for something different.
The Wind Waker (2003)- The easiest game in the series and the most charming. It has the grandest sense of adventure and the deepest combat.
Twilight Princess (2006)- The biggest Zelda game. It's like an homage to Ocarina of Time and easily the most epic. A great place to start, actually.
Skyward Sword (2011)-I haven't played this one yet. :P
If you've never played them I would start with Twilight Princess. It's cheaper than Skyward Sword at the moment and is a solid, 60 hour beast of a game on one playthrough. The story kind of stops after the Gerudo desert and pauses until you complete the three dungeons following that level, but those three dungeons are three of the most creative and crazy in the entire series.
After that I'd play The Wind Waker for a change of pace, sailing across the seas and going for that more light-hearted sense of adventure.
From there I'd play Ocarina of Time. It's like Twilight Princess-lite so I wouldn't play it immediately after that game. Than I'd go for Majora's Mask. It's a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time, but the difference is that Ocarina of Time is a tale of world-saving and chosen heroes while Majora's Mask is about a boy who is on a journey of self-discovery. You'll notice that Ocarina of Time is bigger, longer and more open, allowing you to explore at your pace, while Majora's Mask lacks an overworld and is very atmospheric and abstract in its direction. The existentialism is also something I haven't been used to in the series.
They're all great games though and they're all different in many ways. I won't comment on Skyward Sword since I haven't played that one.
I enjoyed your larger post, well said. Nobody should EVER start on MM though. From my experience (playing myself and watching others) the time limit can be stressful at first, even for someone who is familiar with other games in the series. IMO Majora's Mask is pretty much the worst place you could start as far as 3D Zeldas go. :PCoincidentally, TC, if you're a Club Nintendo member, Majora's Mask is 150 coins. If you have the coins, it's a free game and you can't go wrong with free. It's an odd place to start, but hey, we all start in different places.
NeonNinja
The Wind Waker (2003)- The easiest game in the series and the most charming. It has the grandest sense of adventure and the deepest combat.
NeonNinja
1- i only now noticed it was you, with that avatar and sig changes D:
2- what makes WW's combat so deep? there's nothing deep about it :/
3- easiest if you ignore games like phantom hourglass.
Not getting how OoT is "dated"
It's been the basic formula for every 3d Zelda game since (Console games anyway as that's all i've played). Add a few minor combat tweaks, TAKE AWAY magic, enhance or add a couple new items and BAM you have any other Zelda. It's still bomb that, hookshot up here, bottle this. As far as story goes OoT is actually my favourite story line but i'd say every Zelda game is on-par with one another for the same scale of epicness. Just look at the newest Zelda entry; 3-4 dungeons later before you find out what you've been doing for the last X amount of hours. I loved the story in SS as well but i'm not getting how its presentation is making OoT's dated. Search for clues on where Zelda is, collect these (usually 3) items to gain access here. Same crap different pile.
[QUOTE="NeonNinja"]
The Wind Waker (2003)- The easiest game in the series and the most charming. It has the grandest sense of adventure and the deepest combat.
BrunoBRS
1- i only now noticed it was you, with that avatar and sig changes D:
2- what makes WW's combat so deep? there's nothing deep about it :/
3- easiest if you ignore games like phantom hourglass.
1- Yeah, it's me. Noel and Dragon Age II bashing are gone. Bayonetta and Avatar: The Last Airbender love are in! :P
2- I found it deeper than OoT, MM and Twilight Princess because Nintendo took the basics from OoT and MM's swordplay and started adding layers to it. Whether it was parrying movies, knocking helmets off or cutting armor off. These were aspects of combat that weren't shown in OoT, MM or TP. TP basically started with the motion controls so I'm sure SS improves, enhances and deepens combat, but I haven't played it yet.
3- The TC was asking about the console Zelda games, and out of all of them, Wind Waker is the easiest in terms of difficulty. I'd say Majora's Mask is probably the hardest.
[QUOTE="NeonNinja"]I enjoyed your larger post, well said. Nobody should EVER start on MM though. From my experience (playing myself and watching others) the time limit can be stressful at first, even for someone who is familiar with other games in the series. IMO Majora's Mask is pretty much the worst place you could start as far as 3D Zeldas go. :PCoincidentally, TC, if you're a Club Nintendo member, Majora's Mask is 150 coins. If you have the coins, it's a free game and you can't go wrong with free. It's an odd place to start, but hey, we all start in different places.
Meinhard1
True. Majora's Mask is probably the worst place to start due to being one of the most difficult games, being pretty abstract as well and being a direct sequel to OoT. And that time-limit was killer at first. You have to grow used to it as a character within the game. I think that was Nintendo's intention with it.
I enjoyed your larger post, well said. Nobody should EVER start on MM though. From my experience (playing myself and watching others) the time limit can be stressful at first, even for someone who is familiar with other games in the series. IMO Majora's Mask is pretty much the worst place you could start as far as 3D Zeldas go. :P[QUOTE="Meinhard1"][QUOTE="NeonNinja"]
Coincidentally, TC, if you're a Club Nintendo member, Majora's Mask is 150 coins. If you have the coins, it's a free game and you can't go wrong with free. It's an odd place to start, but hey, we all start in different places.
NeonNinja
True. Majora's Mask is probably the worst place to start due to being one of the most difficult games, being pretty abstract as well and being a direct sequel to OoT. And that time-limit was killer at first. You have to grow used to it as a character within the game. I think that was Nintendo's intention with it.
or until you find out about the reverse song of time :Pthe problem is exactly that: it's "just" the basic formula. -the world is very raw and empty, with a very bad layout. it's an empty circle with the major areas poking out of it, isolating them. -there are barely any characters. you have link, zelda/sheik, ganondorf, and the sages as the big characters. you share some early lines with zelda and a few of the sages early on and when you become an adult, sheik is just there to teach you new songs and move out, you only talk with the sages once and only after the temple, and i honestly don't remember a single line from ganondorf before the ending. as far as side character goes, there are practically none. -the two issues above cause a third one, the lack of content. aside from the main quest, there is practically nothing to the game. the world feels too static and lifeless. -my biggest gripe with the game, the story, or lack of thereof. it starts out ok, but as soon as you become adult it just dies out. they shove it aside and say "go complete 5 dungeons, we'll talk after that". the entire adult part lacks motivation, or some kind of pacing. it's just 5 dungeons thrown one after the other, nonstop. this also happens to be one of my biggest issues with ALttP, but that's another story. there. 4 reasons OoT is dated without delving on the technical aspect.Not getting how OoT is "dated"
It's been the basic formula for every 3d Zelda game since (Console games anyway as that's all i've played). Add a few minor combat tweaks, TAKE AWAY magic, enhance or add a couple new items and BAM you have any other Zelda. It's still bomb that, hookshot up here, bottle this. As far as story goes OoT is actually my favourite story line but i'd say every Zelda game is on-par with one another for the same scale of epicness. Just look at the newest Zelda entry; 3-4 dungeons later before you find out what you've been doing for the last X amount of hours. I loved the story in SS as well but i'm not getting how its presentation is making OoT's dated. Search for clues on where Zelda is, collect these (usually 3) items to gain access here. Same crap different pile.
knuckl3head
[QUOTE="NeonNinja"][QUOTE="Meinhard1"] I enjoyed your larger post, well said. Nobody should EVER start on MM though. From my experience (playing myself and watching others) the time limit can be stressful at first, even for someone who is familiar with other games in the series. IMO Majora's Mask is pretty much the worst place you could start as far as 3D Zeldas go. :PBrunoBRS
True. Majora's Mask is probably the worst place to start due to being one of the most difficult games, being pretty abstract as well and being a direct sequel to OoT. And that time-limit was killer at first. You have to grow used to it as a character within the game. I think that was Nintendo's intention with it.
or until you find out about the reverse song of time :PIt's really handy for dungeons and all, but a lot of the quests are tied in with the game clock and those quests make up like half of the experience in Majora's Mask.
or until you find out about the reverse song of time :P[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="NeonNinja"]
True. Majora's Mask is probably the worst place to start due to being one of the most difficult games, being pretty abstract as well and being a direct sequel to OoT. And that time-limit was killer at first. You have to grow used to it as a character within the game. I think that was Nintendo's intention with it.
NeonNinja
It's really handy for dungeons and all, but a lot of the quests are tied in with the game clock and those quests make up like half of the experience in Majora's Mask.
song of double time. really, once you know those two songs, you become a timelord.[QUOTE="NeonNinja"][QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] or until you find out about the reverse song of time :PBrunoBRS
It's really handy for dungeons and all, but a lot of the quests are tied in with the game clock and those quests make up like half of the experience in Majora's Mask.
song of double time. really, once you know those two songs, you become a timelord.I'm aware of the songs. You learn them before you even become Link. But the time limit is important because of the timed events. You have to know what time to change to, when to slow down, when to speed up, etc.
song of double time. really, once you know those two songs, you become a timelord.[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="NeonNinja"]
It's really handy for dungeons and all, but a lot of the quests are tied in with the game clock and those quests make up like half of the experience in Majora's Mask.
NeonNinja
I'm aware of the songs. You learn them before you even become Link. But the time limit is important because of the timed events. You have to know what time to change to, when to slow down, when to speed up, etc.
it's pretty easy to handle that, you just have to make sure that before you start progressing on the main quest, you go back to day 1, play the reverse song of time, and do not do side quests.1.) the world is very raw and empty, with a very bad layout. it's an empty circle with the major areas poking out of it, isolating them.
2.) there are barely any characters. you have link, zelda/sheik, ganondorf, and the sages as the big characters. you share some early lines with zelda and a few of the sages early on and when you become an adult, sheik is just there to teach you new songs and move out, you only talk with the sages once and only after the temple, and i honestly don't remember a single line from ganondorf before the ending. as far as side character goes, there are practically none.
3.) the two issues above cause a third one, the lack of content. aside from the main quest, there is practically nothing to the game. the world feels too static and lifeless.
4.) my biggest gripe with the game, the story, or lack of thereof. it starts out ok, but as soon as you become adult it just dies out. they shove it aside and say "go complete 5 dungeons, we'll talk after that". the entire adult part lacks motivation, or some kind of pacing. it's just 5 dungeons thrown one after the other, nonstop. this also happens to be one of my biggest issues with ALttP, but that's another story. there. 4 reasons OoT is dated without delving on the technical aspect.BrunoBRS
1.) And MM is same idea on a lesser scale. WW is a rectangle with scattered circles and tedious commutes to each. Tp is same idea as OoT but even more barren and the added luxury of loading times. SS is 3 warps to 3 separated areas through 1 hub. I'd argue SS is the most simplistic.
2.) Only one game does this significantly better. And MM doesn't date OoT.
3.) TP is by far the worst candidate here - not OoT.
4.) I think all the games bring something to the table story-wise. With this pacing issue I didn't really notice it in OoT but I guess that is a valid argument. Still think with this issue SS was just as bad if not worse.
I understand your complaints with OoT but I see those as preferences - not areas that have been technically improved on. When even the newest entry doesn't have a large and intricate overworld, abundance of interacting characters, or any more to do outside of the main story.
[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]
1.) the world is very raw and empty, with a very bad layout. it's an empty circle with the major areas poking out of it, isolating them.
2.) there are barely any characters. you have link, zelda/sheik, ganondorf, and the sages as the big characters. you share some early lines with zelda and a few of the sages early on and when you become an adult, sheik is just there to teach you new songs and move out, you only talk with the sages once and only after the temple, and i honestly don't remember a single line from ganondorf before the ending. as far as side character goes, there are practically none.
3.) the two issues above cause a third one, the lack of content. aside from the main quest, there is practically nothing to the game. the world feels too static and lifeless.
4.) my biggest gripe with the game, the story, or lack of thereof. it starts out ok, but as soon as you become adult it just dies out. they shove it aside and say "go complete 5 dungeons, we'll talk after that". the entire adult part lacks motivation, or some kind of pacing. it's just 5 dungeons thrown one after the other, nonstop. this also happens to be one of my biggest issues with ALttP, but that's another story. there. 4 reasons OoT is dated without delving on the technical aspect.knuckl3head
1.) And MM is same idea on a lesser scale. WW is a rectangle with scattered circles and tedious commutes to each. Tp is same idea as OoT but even more barren and the added luxury of loading times. SS is 3 warps to 3 separated areas through 1 hub. I'd argue SS is the most simplistic.
2.) Only one game does this significantly better. And MM doesn't date OoT.
3.) TP is by far the worst candidate here - not OoT.
4.) I think all the games bring something to the table story-wise. With this pacing issue I didn't really notice it in OoT but I guess that is a valid argument. Still think with this issue SS was just as bad if not worse.
I understand your complaints with OoT but I see those as preferences - not areas that have been technically improved on. When even the newest entry doesn't have a large and intricate overworld, abundance of interacting characters, or any more to do outside of the main story.
1- MM had a similar world layout, yes. SS had one similar to MM. but both wind waker and TP outdo those games in world design, WW mostly, because the world isn't an empty center with some attachments to the side. there is land beyond this city, there is more to this world than just a giant donut with cities sprinkled at the corners. the world feels more natural this way. 2- first, i prefer MM to OoT, even though i really dislike its dungeons. second, all zelda games after OoT had more characters than it, and more lively worlds. MM goes without saying, SS is somewhat similar to it. wind waker had the people of windfall, outset, dragon roost island, the koroks, the pirates, the treasure hunters, beedle, ganondorf is an actual character with lines and recurring encounters, etc. windfall especially was much livelier than anything in OoT. characters would go with their lives, there were a crapton of sidequests involving character arcs, many characters would do different things at night, etc. TP, while not as big in cast as WW or as developed as MM, still had many, many characters that you meet recurringly throughout the game, especially the people from kakariko and the people from telma's bar. not to mention Midna is much more of a character than any OoT character will ever be. 3- i'll give you that TP is just as empty in side content as OoT, though i still think it has more (like the secret techniques and the insane amount of minigames). 4- SS separates story from exploration rather harshly, but it never abandons you. you have a clear, short term goal, you usually meet some characters along the way, and the payoff always feels like more than any "oh thanks for making me a sage, i'll go lurk over there now" dialogue from OoT. so what i'm trying to say with those 4 points is, yes OoT is the basic formula to all games, but each posterior game picks that formula and chooses some, if not all, aspects to improve upon, while never going lower than the initial standard from OoT. so you'll never get a world, or characters, or amount of content, or story worse than OoT, but you'll get at least as good as, if not better, than it.
[QUOTE="NeonNinja"][QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] song of double time. really, once you know those two songs, you become a timelord.BrunoBRS
I'm aware of the songs. You learn them before you even become Link. But the time limit is important because of the timed events. You have to know what time to change to, when to slow down, when to speed up, etc.
it's pretty easy to handle that, you just have to make sure that before you start progressing on the main quest, you go back to day 1, play the reverse song of time, and do not do side quests. Not the first time through. Well at least not for me. It is a concept entirely unique to MM, and takes a lot of getting used to before anyone can call themselves a "timelord". The difference is especially jarring when compared to other Zelda games. I can completely understand why someone would consider the 3 day system frustrating or annoying.[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="NeonNinja"]it's pretty easy to handle that, you just have to make sure that before you start progressing on the main quest, you go back to day 1, play the reverse song of time, and do not do side quests. Not the first time through. Well at least not for me. It is a concept entirely unique to MM, and takes a lot of getting used to before anyone can call themselves a "timelord". The difference is especially jarring when compared to other Zelda games. I can completely understand why someone would consider the 3 day system frustrating or annoying. well time was somewhat threatening before i found out the reverse song of time and the song of double time existed, but honestly after that time was a non-issue. i'd progress through dungeons at my own pace, trigger the sidequests almost the moment i wanted, and always had enough time for everything.I'm aware of the songs. You learn them before you even become Link. But the time limit is important because of the timed events. You have to know what time to change to, when to slow down, when to speed up, etc.
meetroid8
[QUOTE="NeonNinja"]I enjoyed your larger post, well said. Nobody should EVER start on MM though. From my experience (playing myself and watching others) the time limit can be stressful at first, even for someone who is familiar with other games in the series. IMO Majora's Mask is pretty much the worst place you could start as far as 3D Zeldas go. :PCoincidentally, TC, if you're a Club Nintendo member, Majora's Mask is 150 coins. If you have the coins, it's a free game and you can't go wrong with free. It's an odd place to start, but hey, we all start in different places.
Meinhard1
i see MM as a challenge quest for those who wanted something tougher than OoT after playing it. by god MM was so tough when i first played it sheesh. still an amazing game, just never start with it until you play the others and get the feel of what zelda is.
A few years ago I was in your boat, OP. As a kid I only got thru like half of OoT before moving on with the gamecube. I skipped WW and by 2008(the time I got a Wii) I realized I hadn't beat a 3D Zelda. So naturally I just went with TP and I have to say, I think it's a good start. Since then, I've beaten OoT and I'm on my second run of SS, so it definitely got my Zelda juices flowing(eww).
OOT is best but I would recomment playing Wind Waker first.Or you could play Ocarina on the 3DS.Then play Link to the Past.
Ocarina it is easy to get into and you always seem to know where to go.
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