This is an Absolute MUST Read...

[QUOTE="bob_newman"][QUOTE="Swifty_Magee"][QUOTE="bob_newman"]

[QUOTE="Tokyo512"]That is ridiculously long. Let me finish my vacation WITHOUT reading a whole book.Jaysonguy

:roll:

Hey, like you yourself said, it's a long read. It would help if the author basically had a closing summary paragraph that touched on the main points in the article. People like things quick and to the point...and with lots of pictures! Preferably, pop-ups. Remember those? Man, it was fun to be 5; so many things entertained you!

Don't worry, it was a light-hearted eyeroll, not a judging eyeroll.

Mine was judging

It's 19 pages if you keep the pics and have wide margins in Word.

So that would come out to about 14 normal pages.

Well I already know you're lazy, so I expect no more from you. :roll: That's for your lack of effort.

What are you, a 3rd party or something?

wow you guys mke it sound likes it s a huge burden to read its really not that lngCyber-

i know people are making a big deal out of it, its not that long.

great article though, i think he is totally right

I finished reading this article, the first thing I have to say is a big THANK YOU to BOB definitely one of the great posters in this forum. The article was great, and hope it will help fall a lot of cliches that are being posted and stated day after day on the Wii, its gamers and the support. The article was spot on and clarifies what me and others on these forums, that probably started playing in the 80's like me, have always argued against the " Wii is for kiddies and casuals" people and "nintendo are responsible for bad 3 party support" posters that are around here, the journalist is just a far better writer than I will be. What I liked the most is it frontal attack one of the things that annoys me the most, this "hardcore" (good) vs the "casuals (bad,boooh), I just hate this terms, we are all gamers with different tastes end of discussion.

Nintendo is doing it again, changing the gaming business and probably saving it like with the NES. Almost 30 years in business, these guys know a lot about console gaming, they only live of console gaming and that's the big difference with the other two. The others systems are great systems (I love my PS3), but the Wii didn't deserve all the trash talk it recieved just cause they took another path than the technology race, but at the end he who laughs last laughs better.

I remember reading an article somewhat similar to this last year I think. It talked about Nintendo using this Blue Ocean strategy. I really wish I can find the article, because the guy had written other interesting articles. One article for instance, talked about why Microsoft actually entered the gaming industry. Turns out it was because of Sony talking about the PS2 being a media center and Microsoft wanted that territory. All in all, the articles were very similar and they really are good reads. If I find the articles I was talking about, I'll definitely link to them.

-Shark2k

I finished reading this article, the first thing I have to say is a big THANK YOU to BOB definitely one of the great posters in this forum. The article was great, and hope it will help fall a lot of cliches that are being posted and stated day after day on the Wii, its gamers and the support. The article was spot on and clarifies what me and others on these forums, that probably started playing in the 80's like me, have always argued against the " Wii is for kiddies and casuals" people and "nintendo are responsible for bad 3 party support" posters that are around here, the journalist is just a far better writer than I will be. What I liked the most is it frontal attack one of the things that annoys me the most, this "hardcore" (good) vs the "casuals (bad,boooh), I just hate this terms, we are all gamers with different tastes end of discussion.

Nintendo is doing it again, changing the gaming business and probably saving it like with the NES. Almost 30 years in business, these guys know a lot about console gaming, they only live of console gaming and that's the big difference with the other two. The others systems are great systems (I love my PS3), but the Wii didn't deserve all the trash talk it recieved just cause they took another path than the technology race, but at the end he who laughs last laughs better.

vivi2000

Oh, if they did it right with the NES, it's because back then they already had like 70 years of experience in many sectors. Good old Ninty.

Yeah it true but most of it is true since there is always a shift in gaming last time back then in the 80's or the 90's adventure games where just plain awesome but now its all about guns in which FPS come in. Because people want violence in which alot of gamers have seen a collection or series of FPS coming out in the past 07 and 08. But sooner or later alot of people will bore and get tired of that. See as the world is always changing everyone changes and always want new things, then at the same time some things never change as that phrase goes. Some people will still hang around the FPS category since they are still not sick and tired of it.

Nice article think I saw it in another forum. ut dont want to type more got something else to do.

Phew* that was a long read, but very well worth it. Bob, i must thank you to no ends for giving me such an insightful read. hopefully more people can stop being lazy, take the time to read it and realize that the Wii is much more than casual games. It is, as its former name implies, a Revolution in gaming as a whole. After reading it, I'm more proud of having a Wii than ever before, because now I know that all these fancy cover ups and over-saturizations of the gaming industry exist only to the blind, the ignorant, and the Birdmen.

Finally read it

A terrific read that makes you only chuckle at the "other set" of them out there lol

Wonderful read that should make any Nintendo fan's eyes tear and fill their bodies with excitement.

Finally read it

A terrific read that makes you only chuckle at the "other set" of them out there lol

Wonderful read that should make any Nintendo fan's eyes tear and fill their bodies with excitement.

Jaysonguy

Whoa, I never went that far :P

Hey, like you yourself said, it's a long read. It would help if the author basically had a closing summary paragraph that touched on the main points in the article. People like things quick and to the point...Swifty_Magee

One of my professors always encourages us to summarize the stuff we read in two sentences. We read everything from entire books to 50-page articles, and all of them are too complicated for their own good. So let's see if I can do that with this article:

Nintendo's plan is to make quality games that appeal to potential gamers and new gamers, while producing quality games for more experienced gamers at the same time, in order to cater both to veteran gamers and to the new gamers once they have experience. The problem with third-party efforts is that they're focusing on the types of games that Nintendo is producing, not the quality and draw of those games, so they're completely missing the point of Nintendo's profitable plan.

Of course that doesn't replace reading the article, but I think it sums up the point, which is to articulate what Nintendo is doing right and what third parties are doing wrong.

[QUOTE="Swifty_Magee"]Hey, like you yourself said, it's a long read. It would help if the author basically had a closing summary paragraph that touched on the main points in the article. People like things quick and to the point...JordanElek

One of my professors always encourages us to summarize the stuff we read in two sentences. We read everything from entire books to 50-page articles, and all of them are too complicated for their own good. So let's see if I can do that with this article:

Nintendo's plan is to make quality games that appeal to potential gamers and new gamers, while producing quality games for more experienced gamers at the same time, in order to cater both to veteran gamers and to the new gamers once they have experience. The problem with third-party efforts is that they're focusing on the types of games that Nintendo is producing, not the quality and draw of those games, so they're completely missing the point of Nintendo's profitable plan.

Of course that doesn't replace reading the article, but I think it sums up the point, which is to articulate what Nintendo is doing right and what third parties are doing wrong.

You said two sentences, right? Because thats a little more than two sentences.

You said two sentences, right? Because thats a little more than two sentences. shadimoscouplos

The summary is the middle paragraph. It's two sentences. Complex sentences, yes, but still sentences. ;)

[QUOTE="shadimoscouplos"]You said two sentences, right? Because thats a little more than two sentences. JordanElek

The summary is the middle paragraph. It's two sentences. Complex sentences, yes, but still sentences. ;)

:lol: Haha!

Those are some huge sentences.

[QUOTE="Swifty_Magee"]Hey, like you yourself said, it's a long read. It would help if the author basically had a closing summary paragraph that touched on the main points in the article. People like things quick and to the point...JordanElek

One of my professors always encourages us to summarize the stuff we read in two sentences. We read everything from entire books to 50-page articles, and all of them are too complicated for their own good. So let's see if I can do that with this article:

Nintendo's plan is to make quality games that appeal to potential gamers and new gamers, while producing quality games for more experienced gamers at the same time, in order to cater both to veteran gamers and to the new gamers once they have experience. The problem with third-party efforts is that they're focusing on the types of games that Nintendo is producing, not the quality and draw of those games, so they're completely missing the point of Nintendo's profitable plan.

Of course that doesn't replace reading the article, but I think it sums up the point, which is to articulate what Nintendo is doing right and what third parties are doing wrong.

I agree with your summary, and I have no problems with the fact that you attempted to undertake that task.

That said, I intentionally avoided summarizing the article because of the simple fact that a summary just isn't the same as the full article itself.

OK... now I'm caught up. Reading it then catching up on all the comments took a little effort... As I read the article my thoughts would go back to those 'Iwata asks' interviews that explain how they came up with Wii fit, SMG, and the likes and I can see how nintendo really tries to focus on everyone when they make their games. Where as 3rd parties usually try to hit just one target, without even understanding the target, or even convincing their 3rd string dev teams on why they are making it.

I recall in the interview with the Wii Fit dev team that most of them thought it was this little joke that was never going to be anything, but then Miyamoto would show them the vision of how the game will 'expand' to all. Before long they noticed this was a serious game and gave their all. There is something definately to be said about making sure the dev teams are sold before they can produce something amazing. But most of that is simply an aside of my thoughts after all was read. Being a developer myself I found the development process and thoughts about what is being developed, how, and why intriguing. I like the Casual Fallacy (dog analogy) of the article as well. "Wii sports is just a tech demo" and the likes have always been read by me in such a fashion. And how a user views 'casual' games always leaves me with enlightened knowledge about the poster and their ability/inability to view games beyond their initial appearance. I think Jordan summed up the important parts. So if you can't read a 14 page article you will just have to believe what he said without seeing all the evidence. Totally sig'd.raahsnavj

I didn't know you were a developer. Do you mind telling us what company you work for?

i read the article and i still think nintendo isn't appealing to teenagers and young adults. i understand their strategy about appealing to people who haven't played games as much and get frustrated over mature or "hardcore" games(young children and middle-age adults, and even elders). BUT, isn't our generation of teens and teenagers and young adults supposed to understand more complex complicated games? no wonder "hardcore" gamers find "casual" games stupid. they find it too easy and boring. Most people in our generation are supposed to understand computers and all these new technologies since we are growing up with them. ipods, lap-tops, video games, cell phones, internet, etc. i started learning all sorts of tech like ipods, and computers when i was ten. and all i did was watch TV, and hear about new stuff through advertisement. and obviously older middle-age adults won't pick up gaming as fast as younger people, because they never really grew up with the stuff our generation has. some adults, yes, do pick it up easy, but not all of them, and it takes more time for them to get used to it. and then young children are considered "casual" because they also don't pick up gaming as fast because they have yet to learn about tech and new devices. it works the same with video games. people don't understand the buttons, they don't get used to the controls, and then they get frustrated. i honestly don't know anyone my age(14) or even anyone in my school, who doesn't know how to work a cellphone, an ipod, or a computer. my parents however, it takes more time for them to figure all of it out, but eventually understand. its good that nintendo has come up with the strategy of developing games for children and older adults, BUT they could be making more money and satisfying more people IF they came out with some mature games and shooters. in my opinion. its a very smart move by nintendo to appeal to 2 audiences(older adults, and children) than just one audience(teenagers). but why not appeal to all 3 audiences and make everybody happy? does anyone else think this way?

its a very smart move by nintendo to appeal to 2 audiences(older adults, and children) than just one audience(teenagers). but why not appeal to all 3 audiences and make everybody happy? does anyone else think this way?

KJesler16

2 other companies already hold that "age group". Can you guess who they are?

Nintendo tried to appeal to the "hardcore" audience with the gamecube and that didn't work so well for them.

[QUOTE="KJesler16"]

its a very smart move by nintendo to appeal to 2 audiences(older adults, and children) than just one audience(teenagers). but why not appeal to all 3 audiences and make everybody happy? does anyone else think this way?

bob_newman

2 other companies already hold that "age group". Can you guess who they are?

Nintendo tried to appeal to the "hardcore" audience with the gamecube and that didn't work so well for them.

[QUOTE="bob_newman"][QUOTE="KJesler16"]

its a very smart move by nintendo to appeal to 2 audiences(older adults, and children) than just one audience(teenagers). but why not appeal to all 3 audiences and make everybody happy? does anyone else think this way?

KJesler16

2 other companies already hold that "age group". Can you guess who they are?

Nintendo tried to appeal to the "hardcore" audience with the gamecube and that didn't work so well for them.

your going to extremes that invalidate your arguement. The Wii really does apeal to those people but not as much and it is getting better each month. The biggest problem is that Nintendo does not have the third party support to appeal to this age group. Again they still are because its a backbone to the industry that you must have. I m sorry but I dont buy into this idea that Wii is mostly casual. From what Ive seen in sales and public opinion there is just no way some of these games or the system could be successful without the main audience. The same audience that PS3 and 360 only cater to.

Nintendo simply CANNOT do everything. Its about time we realise that there are many very talented people out there with a different kind of game to offer. Its time devs realise what Wii is and stop trying to half ass every part of the development process.

[QUOTE="KJesler16"][QUOTE="bob_newman"][QUOTE="KJesler16"]

its a very smart move by nintendo to appeal to 2 audiences(older adults, and children) than just one audience(teenagers). but why not appeal to all 3 audiences and make everybody happy? does anyone else think this way?

Cyber-

2 other companies already hold that "age group". Can you guess who they are?

Nintendo tried to appeal to the "hardcore" audience with the gamecube and that didn't work so well for them.

your going to extremes that invalidate your arguement. The Wii really does apeal to those people but not as much and it is getting better each month. The biggest problem is that Nintendo does not have the third party support to appeal to this age group. Again they still are because its a backbone to the industry that you must have. I m sorry but I dont buy into this idea that Wii is mostly casual. From what Ive seen in sales and public opinion there is just no way some of these games or the system could be successful without the main audience. The same audience that PS3 and 360 only cater to.

Nintendo simply CANNOT do everything. Its about time we realise that there are many very talented people out there with a different kind of game to offer. Its time devs realise what Wii is and stop trying to half ass every part of the development process.

i agree with you about how devs do a half-assed job on their games, but its only because there are limitations with hardware and graphics. The limitations can make it hard for devs. to make great games that appeal to teenagers.KJesler16

Are you suggesting that third parties have reached the limitations of the Wii's horsepower?

What I basically summed up from this article was: Industries chase trends, immitations and copies of genre-defining games are rarely as good as the originals, there's technically no such thing as "casual gaming", and Nintendo always seems infinitely smarter than all of it's critics. So this article really didn't teach me anything that I didn't already know.

It was an OK read, though...long like you said, but the occasional picture helped.

Swifty_Magee

I like the metaphor and i like the style of writing for such a long read. Nice summation. There only a few things that bother me, Nintendo has been the same company for a long time, the author blames 3rd parties entirely for lacklustre titles being released(which is mostly true). However Nintendo have never helped out it licencees that much in the past to the point their conditions were restrictive and unfair in the 64 era losing many developers to the PSX. I agree with the article generally, but third parties have a tough choice presented developing on the Wii, it is a market that Nintendo have already dominated(teir 1) and naturally since a "new gamer/re-emerging gamer" have bought a new Nintendo console their brand accociation is already strong.

What can they do? They have two equally important markets to cater to, the PS3 360 crowd which can go multiplat and utilise their best teams which also have a desire to push visuals and overall immersion into the vision of their games or they can go head to head with Nintendo on the Wii developing above teir 1 or perhaps moderate games with their best talent. In the same way their emerging gamers on PC with their flash games were an untested market segment for the Wii aim at a higher tier on the Wii isn't a safe choice either.

Just after launch Iwata stated Nintendo projected 30 million consoles to be sold over the life of the system, thats far lower than what we know it will sell now. This was never a slam dunk, but it was the safest/saaviest choice Nintend could make. The DS was a testing ground for their disruption/blue ocean stategy and even they, with all their information underestimated the demand for the product.

The Wii is the best business choice Nintendo have made, but does that benifit the longtime supporters? Making Zelda and Mario Kart and all of their core franchises "bridging" titles doesn't advance presentation and gameplay for us in the meantime. Nintendo already know they are turning off the elements of the old crowd and mention this in their press releases, but they are willing to write off that loss for ensuring a new generation of customers and bring gaming closer to the accepted mainstream. It still sucks though.

[QUOTE="Cyber-"][QUOTE="KJesler16"][QUOTE="bob_newman"][QUOTE="KJesler16"]

its a very smart move by nintendo to appeal to 2 audiences(older adults, and children) than just one audience(teenagers). but why not appeal to all 3 audiences and make everybody happy? does anyone else think this way?

KJesler16

2 other companies already hold that "age group". Can you guess who they are?

Nintendo tried to appeal to the "hardcore" audience with the gamecube and that didn't work so well for them.

your going to extremes that invalidate your arguement. The Wii really does apeal to those people but not as much and it is getting better each month. The biggest problem is that Nintendo does not have the third party support to appeal to this age group. Again they still are because its a backbone to the industry that you must have. I m sorry but I dont buy into this idea that Wii is mostly casual. From what Ive seen in sales and public opinion there is just no way some of these games or the system could be successful without the main audience. The same audience that PS3 and 360 only cater to.

Nintendo simply CANNOT do everything. Its about time we realise that there are many very talented people out there with a different kind of game to offer. Its time devs realise what Wii is and stop trying to half ass every part of the development process.

I dont see that many limitations. Yes the hardware in not as strong, the internet is limited, and the memory is sparse but it did not stop sMG from GOTY or SSBB self proclaimed best fighter ever. Devs and the publishers that assign them do not give a crap about Wii and its appearant. THQ is showing promis, Capcom has shown good ports, and EA is supporting it but EA sucks so its like well packaged dirt. Im sorry but we all know there is dissent towards the wii when it comes to the development side of the industry.

I'm about 10 paragraphs in and so far it's excellent. Thanks for forcing me to read it :D

EDIT: I've now fully read it and found the article to be very enlightening.

its a very smart move by nintendo to appeal to 2 audiences(older adults, and children) than just one audience(teenagers). but why not appeal to all 3 audiences and make everybody happy? does anyone else think this way?KJesler16

According to the article, Nintendo is just now getting to where they can appeal to that "one audience." That's why we aren't seeing Wii Sports 2 or Wii Play 2; we're seeing Galaxy, Smash Bros. and Mario Kart now. These are simple games that can appeal to both crowds, the bridge games he mentioned. He predicts that after this wave of games, we'll see more complicated games that hopefully the veteran gamers can enjoy as well as the newer gamers because they've been playing the bridge games and should now have the ability to understand the more complicated games.

The author is wrong. He says World of Warcraft is so fun because it allows such quick leveling and makes you feel like a BadA so fast. He says there is no such thing as a casual game. Well.... hate to break it, but WoW IS a casual MMORPG. That's why it's so popular. It's not half as difficult as most of the popular MMORPGs before it. Try playing EQ1, Ultima Online, and Asheron's Call, the first "big 3" of MMORPGs and then WoW, and tell me WoW doesn't dumb down the MMORPG genre. Heck, you can barely pick your skill set and abilities, you're so limited. EVERY MMORPG allows you to advance the lower levels quickly, it's when you reach levels 10 and up which separates the men from the mice. WOW's gift was that it allowed the mice to keep playing. I mean... you could solo the entire WoW experience to the max level, something no previous MMORPG would ever allow you to do because of so much teamwork and crucial skillset direction required at the higher levels.

Having said all that, I really hope Wii doesn't Atari 2600 itself out and rely too much on easy, basic, casual games that provide little competition to the great products coming out on PS3/360.

Casual has nothing to do with it. It's 3rd party support! All the great games so far on Wii are mostly made by Nintendo. Very few 3rd party games, and very few developers going the extra mile to provide interesting Wii-Mote support. Super Mario Galaxy isn't a casual game, it's just a brilliantly designed platformer that takes full advantage of all Wii's specs. Hopefully, now that 3rd party developers have realized they missed the Wii bandwagon and are quickly developing games, they learn from SMG and not think Wii Sports is what the community wants.

The author is wrong. He says World of Warcraft is so fun because it allows such quick leveling and makes you feel like a BadA so fast. He says there is no such thing as a casual game. Well.... hate to break it, but WoW IS a casual MMORPG. That's why it's so popular. It's not half as difficult as most of the popular MMORPGs before it. Try playing EQ1, Ultima Online, and Asheron's Call, the first "big 3" of MMORPGs and then WoW, and tell me WoW doesn't dumb down the MMORPG genre. Heck, you can barely pick your skill set and abilities, you're so limited. EVERY MMORPG allows you to advance the lower levels quickly, it's when you reach levels 10 and up which separates the men from the mice. WOW's gift was that it allowed the mice to keep playing. I mean... you could solo the entire WoW experience to the max level, something no previous MMORPG would ever allow you to do because of so much teamwork and crucial skillset direction required at the higher levels.

Having said all that, I really hope Wii doesn't Atari 2600 itself out and rely too much on easy, basic, casual games that provide little competition to the great products coming out on PS3/360.

Casual has nothing to do with it. It's 3rd party support! All the great games so far on Wii are mostly made by Nintendo. Very few 3rd party games, and very few developers going the extra mile to provide interesting Wii-Mote support. Super Mario Galaxy isn't a casual game, it's just a brilliantly designed platformer that takes full advantage of all Wii's specs. Hopefully, now that 3rd party developers have realized they missed the Wii bandwagon and are quickly developing games, they learn from SMG and not think Wii Sports is what the community wants.

The__MCP

I....the....

You missed every single point the author was trying to make. Honestly I'm shocked and a little astounded that you missed each and every point.

To each their own but holy cow, read it again maybe?

Super Mario Galaxy isn't a casual game, it's just a brilliantly designed platformer that takes full advantage of all Wii's specs.

The__MCP

Ummmm, you do know the Wiimote can do more then a slight waggle and limited pointer options right? So by full you mean not much?

I mean....

I'm just shocked

I'm going to watch some TV and come back because honestly I'm just speechless

[QUOTE="The__MCP"]

Super Mario Galaxy isn't a casual game, it's just a brilliantly designed platformer that takes full advantage of all Wii's specs.

Jaysonguy

Ummmm, you do know the Wiimote can do more then a slight waggle and limited pointer options right? So by full you mean not much?

I mean....

I'm just shocked

I'm going to watch some TV and come back because honestly I'm just speechless

Haha, and you never watch TV, so this must've really gotten to you.

And MCP, you really, really, need to read that again. It looks as if you read the intro, glanced at a few random words throughout the article, and called it a day.

[QUOTE="The__MCP"]

The author is wrong. He says World of Warcraft is so fun because it allows such quick leveling and makes you feel like a BadA so fast. He says there is no such thing as a casual game. Well.... hate to break it, but WoW IS a casual MMORPG. That's why it's so popular. It's not half as difficult as most of the popular MMORPGs before it. Try playing EQ1, Ultima Online, and Asheron's Call, the first "big 3" of MMORPGs and then WoW, and tell me WoW doesn't dumb down the MMORPG genre. Heck, you can barely pick your skill set and abilities, you're so limited. EVERY MMORPG allows you to advance the lower levels quickly, it's when you reach levels 10 and up which separates the men from the mice. WOW's gift was that it allowed the mice to keep playing. I mean... you could solo the entire WoW experience to the max level, something no previous MMORPG would ever allow you to do because of so much teamwork and crucial skillset direction required at the higher levels.

Having said all that, I really hope Wii doesn't Atari 2600 itself out and rely too much on easy, basic, casual games that provide little competition to the great products coming out on PS3/360.

Casual has nothing to do with it. It's 3rd party support! All the great games so far on Wii are mostly made by Nintendo. Very few 3rd party games, and very few developers going the extra mile to provide interesting Wii-Mote support. Super Mario Galaxy isn't a casual game, it's just a brilliantly designed platformer that takes full advantage of all Wii's specs. Hopefully, now that 3rd party developers have realized they missed the Wii bandwagon and are quickly developing games, they learn from SMG and not think Wii Sports is what the community wants.

Jaysonguy

I....the....

You missed every single point the author was trying to make. Honestly I'm shocked and a little astounded that you missed each and every point.

To each their own but holy cow, read it again maybe?

The author wrote:

Anyone who has played World of Warcraft will realize how fast the game makes one feel like a 'badass' in the first ten levels of the game. Other MMORPGs start off much slower which would explain their slower sales.

These downmarket users, if properly treated, will travel upstream to become upmarket users. World of Warcraft novices often become the most die-hard raiders. Many had Command and Conquer or Warcraft 2/Starcraft as their first RTS. They played the simple levels and moved upstream to more sophistication. (It should be noted that World of Warcraft, Warcraft 2, Red Alert, and Diablo are set up to take advantage of this. The first units or choices the player has are small but it branches over time and becomes more complex.)

And again.. I disagree. WoW is 100% casual. There is no upstream. That game is SIMPLE! Even past level 10! Everything is streamlined, your hand is held, very little hardcore gaming required other than setting up your hotkeys for PK raids, which isn't hardcore gaming, it's just tedious. Past MMORPGs had private programs written to spell out exactly what you were losing/gaining each time you picked a different skill to specialize. WoW pretty much spells it all out for you. The instance dungeons that make hard quests baby food. 2 non-trade skills? Early level cap? C-A-S-U-A-L.

If Nintendo is truly aiming at starting simple and expanding upwards like the author claims, then WHERE THE FRICK are the upwards games? Where is the GTA4 with Wii-Mote support? Where are the cool JRPGs that 360 is trying to produce like Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon? Where are the shooters to compete with the biggest recent genre craze in North American gaming like Sony is trying to do with Haze and Killzone 2? There's barely anything worth playing on the horizon. It's almost the same production plan as the Gamecube. Some great Nintendo-produced franchises, poor 3rd party exclusives and/or support. Don't try and tell me the Wii-Wheel and Wii-Zapper are Tier 2 plans. They're still gimmick mini-game stuff. If Nintendo REALLY wants to take advantage, you'll see shooters made by Nintendo that rival Call of Duty 4, not LInk's Crossbow Training.

I agree wiith the author that 3rd party will think "casual sales" and try to make mediocre products, but I don't think Nintendo had a grand plan to "whirpool" out because its still selling the same product it did in the Gamecube generation. BTW, I say all of this out of love. I think the Wii has great potential but I'm frustrated with its lack of game development other than the typical Mario/Zelda/Metroid franchises.

Placed it in my favourites for future reading. I'll post back with my opinion later.

The author wrote:

quote: Anyone who has played World of Warcraft will realize how fast the game makes one feel like a 'badass' in the first ten levels of the game. Other MMORPGs start off much slower which would explain their slower sales.

These downmarket users, if properly treated, will travel upstream to become upmarket users. World of Warcraft novices often become the most die-hard raiders. Many had Command and Conquer or Warcraft 2/Starcraft as their first RTS. They played the simple levels and moved upstream to more sophistication. (It should be noted that World of Warcraft, Warcraft 2, Red Alert, and Diablo are set up to take advantage of this. The first units or choices the player has are small but it branches over time and becomes more complex.) The__MCP

And again.. I disagree. WoW is 100% casual. There is no upstream. That game is SIMPLE! Even past level 10! Everything is streamlined, your hand is held, very little hardcore gaming required other than setting up your hotkeys for PK raids, which isn't hardcore gaming, it's just tedious. Past MMORPGs had private programs written to spell out exactly what you were losing/gaining each time you picked a different skill to specialize. WoW pretty much spells it all out for you. The instance dungeons that make hard quests baby food. 2 non-trade skills? Early level cap? C-A-S-U-A-L.

So, you are suggesting that ol' gramma is playing WoW, putting 20+ hours into it a week, and working her way up to a level 70?

No, that's not casual. That's not downstream. That takes a lot of time, effort, and practice to make it to that level. No non-gamer would ever say "I never play games, so you know what sounds like a good idea? Becoming a level 70 Paladin."

Not gunna happen.

If Nintendo is truly aiming at starting simple and expanding upwards like the author claims, then WHERE THE FRICK are the upwards games? Where is the GTA4 with Wii-Mote support?

The__MCP

You mean like Bully, RE4, Godfather: Blackhand Edition, Scarface? Stuff like that? It's on there.

Where is GTA4? GTA will never reach a Nintendo console. If you have a family-friendly image, you don't go out asking for the most controversial game possible. That's bad business.

I'd finish taking apart your post, but I have to run to school. Expect maybe Jaysonguy to finish it off for me. If not, I'll be back...