What LoZ:TP really lacked. (spoilers)

[QUOTE="WR_Platinum"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]I just felt like **** after playing TP and I remember thinking that this game was made to piss off fans of Ocarina, MM and WW because though it looks like a Zelda, it doesn't play sound or act like one.Shirley_Temple

So..........You liked the transition to linearity (go here, then her then here) repetetiveness (kill the bugs, again) and poor quality (the music stops if you fight Stallord for too long) of TP?

[QUOTE="WR_Platinum"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]I just felt like **** after playing TP and I remember thinking that this game was made to piss off fans of Ocarina, MM and WW because though it looks like a Zelda, it doesn't play sound or act like one.Shirley_Temple

So..........You liked the transition to linearity (go here, then her then here) repetetiveness (kill the bugs, again) and poor quality (the music stops if you fight Stallord for too long) of TP?

You people are insane, in OoT did you not have to go to the Deku Tree, and then to Death Moutain, and than Zora's Domain. It was the same in TP you had to do things in a specific order, the only thing that Ocarina had over TP was it had a few more things to do outside of the story. However TP's story had alot more meat to it, it wasnt so straight foward and obvious, so it didnt require as many distractions to the story.Sepewrath

No offence Shirley_Temple, but your coments on TP are just as unwanted as the actor you name yourself after. nasty_butler16

[QUOTE="Dencore"][QUOTE="WR_Platinum"][QUOTE="magrappy"]Twilight Princess lacked nothing.crimsontimson

So thats where hes been hiding.

You people are insane, in OoT did you not have to go to the Deku Tree, and then to Death Moutain, and than Zora's Domain. It was the same in TP you had to do things in a specific order, the only thing that Ocarina had over TP was it had a few more things to do outside of the story. However TP's story had alot more meat to it, it wasnt so straight foward and obvious, so it didnt require as many distractions to the story.Sepewrath

Um, how do I say this.... No, You do realize that you could beat the dungeons out of order,

In fact I didn't know about Death mountain until after I'd beaten Zora's Domain and then finally answered Navi's annoying ring.

[QUOTE="WR_Platinum"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]I just felt like **** after playing TP and I remember thinking that this game was made to piss off fans of Ocarina, MM and WW because though it looks like a Zelda, it doesn't play sound or act like one.Shirley_Temple

So..........You liked the transition to linearity (go here, then her then here) repetetiveness (kill the bugs, again) and poor quality (the music stops if you fight Stallord for too long) of TP?

[QUOTE="pop1233"]no the thing it really lacked was music i loved playing the songs in OoTnasty_butler16

Twilight Princess lacked nothing.magrappy

[QUOTE="WR_Platinum"][QUOTE="magrappy"]Twilight Princess lacked nothing.Dencore

[QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]

[QUOTE="WR_Platinum"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]I just felt like **** after playing TP and I remember thinking that this game was made to piss off fans of Ocarina, MM and WW because though it looks like a Zelda, it doesn't play sound or act like one.nasty_butler16

So..........You liked the transition to linearity (go here, then her then here) repetetiveness (kill the bugs, again) and poor quality (the music stops if you fight Stallord for too long) of TP?

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]You people are insane, in OoT did you not have to go to the Deku Tree, and then to Death Moutain, and than Zora's Domain. It was the same in TP you had to do things in a specific order, the only thing that Ocarina had over TP was it had a few more things to do outside of the story. However TP's story had alot more meat to it, it wasnt so straight foward and obvious, so it didnt require as many distractions to the story.Shirley_Temple

Um, how do I say this.... No, You do realize that you could beat the dungeons out of order,

In fact I didn't know about Death mountain until after I'd beaten Zora's Domain and then finally answered Navi's annoying ring.

[QUOTE="nasty_butler16"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]

[QUOTE="WR_Platinum"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]I just felt like **** after playing TP and I remember thinking that this game was made to piss off fans of Ocarina, MM and WW because though it looks like a Zelda, it doesn't play sound or act like one.nasty_butler16

So..........You liked the transition to linearity (go here, then her then here) repetetiveness (kill the bugs, again) and poor quality (the music stops if you fight Stallord for too long) of TP?

Unwanted?  So you guys prefer  listening to hundreds of kids talk about how TP is a flawless game and that no game is better?  Yeah, enjoy that, I'll go back to playing games like Colossus and Okami and Oblivion that, you know, don't suck.

[QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]You people are insane, in OoT did you not have to go to the Deku Tree, and then to Death Moutain, and than Zora's Domain. It was the same in TP you had to do things in a specific order, the only thing that Ocarina had over TP was it had a few more things to do outside of the story. However TP's story had alot more meat to it, it wasnt so straight foward and obvious, so it didnt require as many distractions to the story.Dencore

Um, how do I say this.... No, You do realize that you could beat the dungeons out of order,

In fact I didn't know about Death mountain until after I'd beaten Zora's Domain and then finally answered Navi's annoying ring.

And what?  Ocarina is a fairly Non-linear adventure game that lets you beat most any temple in any order, TP is a linear action game.

[QUOTE="nasty_butler16"][QUOTE="nasty_butler16"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]

[QUOTE="WR_Platinum"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]I just felt like **** after playing TP and I remember thinking that this game was made to piss off fans of Ocarina, MM and WW because though it looks like a Zelda, it doesn't play sound or act like one.Shirley_Temple

So..........You liked the transition to linearity (go here, then her then here) repetetiveness (kill the bugs, again) and poor quality (the music stops if you fight Stallord for too long) of TP?

Unwanted? So you guys prefer listening to hundreds of kids talk about how TP is a flawless game and that no game is better? Yeah, enjoy that, I'll go back to playing games like Colossus and Okami and Oblivion that, you know, don't suck.

Um, how do I say this.... No, You do realize that you could beat the dungeons out of order,

In fact I didn't know about Death mountain until after I'd beaten Zora's Domain and then finally answered Navi's annoying ring.Shirley_Temple

Do you know why it was like that, because in OoT they just gave a basic task to follow and you move teh story along that way. So order didn't matter, even though there was a pretty set pattern as there were items that were required to move along. In TP the story was directly intertwined with your progess hence the reason you has less freedom to choose what you wanted. Not to mention OoT wasn't the free roaming world that you make it out to be, its not like you could go to the Spirit Temple before you went to the Forest Temple. Lastly to comment on the boss battles in particular Ganon, he was more difficult in TP than in OoT because unlike OoT he didnt have a preset weakness to exploit for the entire battle. That goes for all bosses in any game actually, bosses are easy because once you find thier weakness its childs play to exploit them. The only way boss battles will ever be really hard is if bosses adjust to what you do and dont have a preset weakness, and like I said that goes for everything from Zelda to Halo.

[QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"][QUOTE="nasty_butler16"][QUOTE="nasty_butler16"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]

[QUOTE="WR_Platinum"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]I just felt like **** after playing TP and I remember thinking that this game was made to piss off fans of Ocarina, MM and WW because though it looks like a Zelda, it doesn't play sound or act like one.WR_Platinum

So..........You liked the transition to linearity (go here, then her then here) repetetiveness (kill the bugs, again) and poor quality (the music stops if you fight Stallord for too long) of TP?

Unwanted? So you guys prefer listening to hundreds of kids talk about how TP is a flawless game and that no game is better? Yeah, enjoy that, I'll go back to playing games like Colossus and Okami and Oblivion that, you know, don't suck.

[QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"] Um, how do I say this.... No, You do realize that you could beat the dungeons out of order,

In fact I didn't know about Death mountain until after I'd beaten Zora's Domain and then finally answered Navi's annoying ring.Sepewrath

Do you know why it was like that, because in OoT they just gave a basic task to follow and you move teh story along that way. So order didn't matter, even though there was a pretty set pattern as there were items that were required to move along. In TP the story was directly intertwined with your progess hence the reason you has less freedom to choose what you wanted. Not to mention OoT wasn't the free roaming world that you make it out to be, its not like you could go to the Spirit Temple before you went to the Forest Temple. Lastly to comment on the boss battles in particular Ganon, he was more difficult in TP than in OoT because unlike OoT he didnt have a preset weakness to exploit for the entire battle. That goes for all bosses in any game actually, bosses are easy because once you find thier weakness its childs play to exploit them. The only way boss battles will ever be really hard is if bosses adjust to what you do and dont have a preset weakness, and like I said that goes for everything from Zelda to Halo.

I realize the Why, I'm simply stating I preferred that less binding method of adventuring of Ocarina, in TP its almost suffocating being forced to turn into a wolf, and then back again repeatedly.  Its the main focus of the game, making Link a wolf, yet its no more useful or prefferred and its dreaded when you know you're about to enter a part of Hyrule covered in Twilight.  Basically as a whole package, I prefferred Ocarina to TP, TP's multitude of flaws and annoyances added up to one hell of a game. 

The only time I enjoyed myself was when I beat it and realized there was no more forced questing anymore.  I don't care if people respect my opinion or not, but I really worry that some people can't even see the game's plotholes.

I don't care if people respect my opinion or not, but I really worry that some people can't even see the game's plotholes.Shirley_Temple

[QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]I don't care if people respect my opinion or not, but I really worry that some people can't even see the game's plotholes.WR_Platinum

I tolerate your opinions fine, I just have higher standards for what makes a good game I suppose, and for me, this is 2006, I'm utterly shocked I had more fun with WW than TP, I was expecting something to rival WW and SOTC in epicness and fun, but TP couldn't even top Ocarina, an 8 year old game.

I though link was a bit of a pusssy sometimes. That smile he would get sometimes, combined with the fact that he never talks. I mean not talking is fine, but I always pictured Link as a introverted, dark individual. TP Link had no edge, especially compared to what WW and MM did with him.

Edit: Oh, and I've said this before, but the game would have better if they got rid of the bottles.  Then there would be no complaining about how the game is too easy.  Some bosses would have actually killed me, including the last one.  The gameboy zelda's didnt' have bottles and they're pretty great games.

[QUOTE="WR_Platinum"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]I don't care if people respect my opinion or not, but I really worry that some people can't even see the game's plotholes.Shirley_Temple

I tolerate your opinions fine, I just have higher standards for what makes a good game I suppose, and for me, this is 2006, I'm utterly shocked I had more fun with WW than TP, I was expecting something to rival WW and SOTC in epicness and fun, but TP couldn't even top Ocarina, an 8 year old game.

[QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]

[QUOTE="WR_Platinum"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]I don't care if people respect my opinion or not, but I really worry that some people can't even see the game's plotholes.WR_Platinum

I tolerate your opinions fine, I just have higher standards for what makes a good game I suppose, and for me, this is 2006, I'm utterly shocked I had more fun with WW than TP, I was expecting something to rival WW and SOTC in epicness and fun, but TP couldn't even top Ocarina, an 8 year old game.

Last I checked, Twilight Princess was released in November 06, stop grasping at straws.

I realize the Why, I'm simply stating I preferred that less binding method of adventuring of Ocarina, in TP its almost suffocating being forced to turn into a wolf, and then back again repeatedly.  Its the main focus of the game, making Link a wolf, yet its no more useful or prefferred and its dreaded when you know you're about to enter a part of Hyrule covered in Twilight.  Basically as a whole package, I prefferred Ocarina to TP, TP's multitude of flaws and annoyances added up to one hell of a game. 

The only time I enjoyed myself was when I beat it and realized there was no more forced questing anymore.  I don't care if people respect my opinion or not, but I really worry that some people can't even see the game's plotholes.Shirley_Temple

 Not even Ocarina of Time is the wide open do whatever you want world that you make it out to be, like for example you couldnt beat the game if you didnt get the slingshot, or you couldnt enter the water temple if you didnt have the hookshot. OoT was just as constrictive as you describe TP, but it was constricted by items, not by the story. I prefer following a story in a game more so than following the items you collect in the game. Your entitled to your opinion and I'm not trying to change it, but your points are not very valid as OoT "suffered" from the same flaws that you tag Twilight Princess with.

[QUOTE="WR_Platinum"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]

[QUOTE="WR_Platinum"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]I don't care if people respect my opinion or not, but I really worry that some people can't even see the game's plotholes.Shirley_Temple

I tolerate your opinions fine, I just have higher standards for what makes a good game I suppose, and for me, this is 2006, I'm utterly shocked I had more fun with WW than TP, I was expecting something to rival WW and SOTC in epicness and fun, but TP couldn't even top Ocarina, an 8 year old game.

Last I checked, Twilight Princess was released in November 06, stop grasping at straws.

[QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]

I realize the Why, I'm simply stating I preferred that less binding method of adventuring of Ocarina, in TP its almost suffocating being forced to turn into a wolf, and then back again repeatedly.  Its the main focus of the game, making Link a wolf, yet its no more useful or prefferred and its dreaded when you know you're about to enter a part of Hyrule covered in Twilight.  Basically as a whole package, I prefferred Ocarina to TP, TP's multitude of flaws and annoyances added up to one hell of a game. 

The only time I enjoyed myself was when I beat it and realized there was no more forced questing anymore.  I don't care if people respect my opinion or not, but I really worry that some people can't even see the game's plotholes.Sepewrath

 Not even Ocarina of Time is the wide open do whatever you want world that you make it out to be, like for example you couldnt beat the game if you didnt get the slingshot, or you couldnt enter the water temple if you didnt have the hookshot. OoT was just as constrictive as you describe TP, but it was constricted by items, not by the story. I prefer following a story in a game more so than following the items you collect in the game. Your entitled to your opinion and I'm not trying to change it, but your points are not very valid as OoT "suffered" from the same flaws that you tag Twilight Princess with.

Yes Ocarina is constricted by items, but think about it, after you beat the first dungeon, the world is practically your oyster, in TP, your still shuffled along to the next dungeon.

Perhaps TP would have been more enjoyable if the story wasn't as predictable as a Legend of Heroes or Astonishia Story game, and had more of the HOLY CRAP awesomeness of WW's story.  I didn't even notice WW was sending me from dungeon to dungeon because I was reeling from learning that the races I knew and loved had all but dissappeared.

You know what's the funniest, I was trying to make a Music video like I did with Shadow of the Colossus and Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess, but ONLY of TP's bosses, and no matter what I did, I couldn't make the fights look cool, I couldn't make them look epic, They just looked like fights with common enemies.

Those 3 videos speak for my talent, but seriously, I couldn't do much with TP's bosses, that has to count for SOMETHING.

Even after the first dungeon you still were driven by items that you collected, and after playing TP I realize how OoT missed out on telling the story. There were three points in which the story was dictated, and progressed, that was the start of the game, getting into the temple of time, and lastly after you awakened all the sages. In OoT you could alternate what the Water Temple for the Fire Temple, thats not absolute freedom, its just simply the story was just in three intervals and the items that who had collected so far, allowed you to choose which one you went to first. However its not like you could choose where you wanted to go, also if you thought TP story was predictable than you must have known what was going to happen the second you turned on OoT. Since it was so predictable you must not have been one of those people who thought that the game would end with Hyrule being flooded, like so many people did. I would bring up points that I know you couldnt have known was going to happen, but I dont want to spoil anything for people here.Sepewrath

I don't claim to be a precog, only that taking from what Nintendo had stated about the game and how the game progresses, it becomes pretty apparrent how the game is going to end.   I knew it wouldnt' have ended with a flood because Nintendo almost explicitly announced that the flood would be the story of the NEXT title.

I'm not saying Ocarina was a freeform adventure or that it was the pinnacle of storytelling, it just had a lot more to offer in terms of exploration and encouraged you to explore right away.  I'm also saying that TP's story left a lot to be desired and had major plotholes, and while Ocarina may have been neat and tidy, it certainly had some shocking and touching moments, Any scene involving Saria was moving, and any time Shiek's theme started up I knew I would learn more of the history of the world and of events that transpired during Link's hibernation.  IT just NAILED almost everything.

PS:  Didja watch my videos?  Here's one I made INSTEAD of the Boss one.

Holy cow Shirley is a DUDE and Mexican :o No offense I always thought you where a girl and blonde :lol:lzorro

I was blonde.

[QUOTE="lzorro"]Holy cow Shirley is a DUDE and Mexican :o No offense I always thought you where a girl and blonde :lol:Shirley_Temple

I was blonde.

[QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]

[QUOTE="lzorro"]Holy cow Shirley is a DUDE and Mexican :o No offense I always thought you where a girl and blonde :lol:lzorro

I was blonde.

I'm friggin Mexican, is this a real question?  Of course it was dyed.

[QUOTE="lzorro"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]

[QUOTE="lzorro"]Holy cow Shirley is a DUDE and Mexican :o No offense I always thought you where a girl and blonde :lol:Shirley_Temple

I was blonde.

I'm friggin Mexican, is this a real question? Of course it was dyed.

Like I said before Ocarina offered more random side quest because it needed to fill in the time between the story intervals, I really didnt notice any of these plotholes that you are speaking of, but I'll keep an eye out for them. TP's story was far more fluid, it had many more twist, and was told in a much better fashion than Ocarina. I mean they told you when you woke up that Ganon took over, they never said how he did, what he did to this person, and that place, except in a few instances. In TP they said well when this happened, such and such happened, and that caused this, a much more involved story. And you cant tell a story like that if the player is off doing whatever you feel like, in Ocarina you could afford to mess around A BIT, because of the intervals and lack of details.Sepewrath

That's also a side effect of the type of story they were telling, Link is time travelling so of course they had to be intentionally vague on some points.  Remember how I never said Ocarina was the pinnacle of storytelling in a Zelda, its cause MM is the pinnacle of Zelda Storytelling. 

As for Plot holes, Zelda melds with Midna, then somehow Ganon abducts her, Midna kills Zant, and then he breaks his neck to kill both Ganondorf and himself.  The Skeleton is never explained, nor why he's in the form of a wolf, or even why he's gold or why he's chosen certain moments to teach Link etc.

[QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"][QUOTE="lzorro"][QUOTE="Shirley_Temple"]

[QUOTE="lzorro"]Holy cow Shirley is a DUDE and Mexican :o No offense I always thought you where a girl and blonde :lol:lzorro

I was blonde.

I'm friggin Mexican, is this a real question? Of course it was dyed.

pssssh, nah I'm just a dyer.

[QUOTE="WR_Platinum"][QUOTE="magrappy"]Twilight Princess lacked nothing.Dencore

[QUOTE="_Devastator"]

My apologies Den, I was merely using a coin phrase about trying to change someone's opinion, not belittling your perspective.

Dencore

I caught your parady.  I love to discuss these things, I just don't want anyone to have any hard feelings.  Everyone is entitled to their opinions.  I actually find it quite refreshing.  The things I can't seem to deal with are when people want to argue over simple things like, "The map is completely opposite than what it should be in TP."  The comments don't bother me, it's the simple fact that the game was designed for the GC and had to be completely mirrored so that Link could be right-handed for the Wii.  You know, it's not that someone can't have an opinion, it's just that they're making a huge issue about a simple fact that cannot be denied.  Just like when Shirley_Temple has made the comments about the sound.  You know, he's right, it wasn't designed on a 'newer' sound technology.  It would have been nice to have better sound.  I don't think that was is even an argument.  The problem is that TP was designed for the GC.  If you guys can remember, TP was nearly ready for release (Fall 2005), but Nintendo wanted to add some new 'gameplay' that would totally enhance the experience.  I bring this up because, that last year of development was probably all spent on integrating the Wii controller and mirroring the entire game.  Add the testing time and wow, that is a long wait for us users.  So, everything from sound and graphics was initally designed for the GC roughly one year ago.  Hence, I have given TP a little bit of a break, not that we shouldn't expect more from our favorite games.  At least there are more people with the same mindset because Gamespot only scores it a 8.8 for the Wii.  Ironically, it scored higher on the GC.  This makes sense because the game has been designed for the GC.  It still is funny though, I would still rather play it on the Wii.  Anyway, thanks for the followup and your perspective.  Keep it coming!  :)

.

As for Plot holes, Zelda melds with Midna, then somehow Ganon abducts her, Midna kills Zant, and then he breaks his neck to kill both Ganondorf and himself. The Skeleton is never explained, nor why he's in the form of a wolf, or even why he's gold or why he's chosen certain moments to teach Link etc.

Shirley_Temple

[QUOTE="Dencore"][QUOTE="_Devastator"]

My apologies Den, I was merely using a coin phrase about trying to change someone's opinion, not belittling your perspective.

_Devastator

I caught your parady. I love to discuss these things, I just don't want anyone to have any hard feelings. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I actually find it quite refreshing. The things I can't seem to deal with are when people want to argue over simple things like, "The map is completely opposite than what it should be in TP." The comments don't bother me, it's the simple fact that the game was designed for the GC and had to be completely mirrored so that Link could be right-handed for the Wii. You know, it's not that someone can't have an opinion, it's just that they're making a huge issue about a simple fact that cannot be denied. Just like when Shirley_Temple has made the comments about the sound. You know, he's right, it wasn't designed on a 'newer' sound technology. It would have been nice to have better sound. I don't think that was is even an argument. The problem is that TP was designed for the GC. If you guys can remember, TP was nearly ready for release (Fall 2005), but Nintendo wanted to add some new 'gameplay' that would totally enhance the experience. I bring this up because, that last year of development was probably all spent on integrating the Wii controller and mirroring the entire game. Add the testing time and wow, that is a long wait for us users. So, everything from sound and graphics was initally designed for the GC roughly one year ago. Hence, I have given TP a little bit of a break, not that we shouldn't expect more from our favorite games. At least there are more people with the same mindset because Gamespot only scores it a 8.8 for the Wii. Ironically, it scored higher on the GC. This makes sense because the game has been designed for the GC. It still is funny though, I would still rather play it on the Wii. Anyway, thanks for the followup and your perspective. Keep it coming! :)