Why do gamers here not want an achievment system on Wii?

I just searched on google to see if there was any news of Nintendo incorporating a system like the 360 achievment system. Lots of Wii games have achievments, latest probably being the metroid series and Umbrella Chronicles. During my search, I found topics on the gamespot forums asking if people wanted achievments, and it seems most Nintendo gamers here are solidly against it.

What I don't get is why... Like, it's extra content, it's fun, you can ignore it if you want... I'd love to see it. Are gamers here just in denial that Microsoft actually came up with a really nice feature, and so are using all thier fanboy powers to deny it's existance or what? I'd love to see this implimented and with Nintendo incorporating it into a number of thier games, I don't know what people round here have against it...

ehh I kind of think of it as artificial achievements..I'd rather receive something in game rather than a tropy to show off.

ehh I kind of think of it as artificial achievements..I'd rather receive something in game rather than a tropy to show off.

shoryuken_

Why not both?

Miyamoto says it better than me

I dont see them as being all that important.

I don't know...they just seem...pointless.

Probably because many only own a Wii. I said the same thing until i got a 360 and totally changed my opinion. Also the Wii's horribly poor online infastructure probably means its not possible to have a system up like that.

Fact is Nintendo keeps telling us what gamers want when they absolutely have no idea, maybe they should try asking us instead.

Miyamoto says it better than me

shoryuken_

Actually he's contradictory by saying he does not want trophies and then again to say:

"The stamps within Wii Sports Resort are more of an impetus to play in different ways and to try and do different things."

This is what a lot of trophies actually do, telling you do that and that in order to get me while there are a lot optional. Just check the Borderlands trophies where you actually got a trophy saying your brother is an italian plumber if you kill an enemy by jumping on them ^^

I wish Nintendo would make an Update for this. but no. Achievements and Trophies give Replay Value for Games. I certainly don't buy the game for the Achievements but for the Actual Game and storyline. But Trophies and Achievements give me replay value. also I need help posting images on here. LegatoSkyheart

Well said and I totally agree with you. About the pictures, it's pretty simple, see that symbol with the tree left of the smiley? Copy the link of the picture

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs51/f/2009/292/7/9/Nintendo_Achievement_by_LegatoSkyheart.png

and klick on this tree. A new window pops up where you can paste the URL of the image, give it a description and there it is:

Why? Because of sentiments like this (This is a real quote, talking about 1 vs. 100 on XBL):

I unlocked the Golden Century achievement yesterday, but I haven't unlocked the Quarter Century achievement yet.I play 360 games for completion of achievements - I want everything on my list to be unlocked. I know the game is free and we could win a prize, but Id rather the game achievement history be deletedand lose the gamerscore for it then have that last one be glitched and unachievable. It would be incredibly dissapointing for me to learn that I cant complete 1 vs 100.

Some OCD guy

Way too many people get way too caught up in the importance of achievements. And for what?

It's a superficial way of "increasing" replayability. It doesn't really enhance the game itself in any way.

Most importantly, it takes you out of the experience. Developers spend years creating an experience that they hope will immerse you into the worlds they've created. Sometimes they want to create a serious, mature (and I'm not talking ratings here) story, but every time I see that little blip at the bottom of my screen it just pulls me right back out of that world.

Every single developer and programmer that I've talked to has said the same thing: being forced to create achievements ruins their original vision and their artistic integrity. Now I know that some of you would say "they're just games, who cares about integrity?" To that I say, do you ever want video games to be taken seriously?

It's perfectly fine for certain games to have achievements. In fact, many games on the Wii do have some form of achievement and it works for them. But the last thing I want to see Nintendo do is force developers to adapt to some kind of universal achievement system. It's not needed. If devs want to put an achievement system in their game, go for it. But don't force them to do it.

Work on genuine gameplay and the replayability will find itself.

As Miyamoto said, "I want people to play because they enjoy playing and want to play more."

Way too many people get way too caught up in the importance of achievements. And for what? It's a superficial way of "increasing" replayability. It doesn't really enhance the game itself in any way.

Every single developer and programmer that I've talked to has said the same thing: being forced to create achievements ruins their original vision and their artistic integrity

bob_newman

Way too many people get way too caught up in the importance of achievements. And for what? It's a superficial way of "increasing" replayability. It doesn't really enhance the game itself in any way.

Every single developer and programmer that I've talked to has said the same thing: being forced to create achievements ruins their original vision and their artistic integrity

bob_newman

My only console at the moment is the Wii(PC doesnt count) and I want an achievement system. Many people here do not want an achievement system because they probably only own a Wii and do not see the benefits of it. Theres no harm adding a feature, its better than having nothing at all. If you don't like it, don't use it.

well, an option for the user to switch them off could fix that, though I don't believe a message saying you've earned an achievment every now and then could ever really bother someone. Maybe even just switch off the in-game alert.

I do agree though that developers shouldn't be forced to include them, though I don't see why they wouldn't want to. It adds to sales firstly, which is the purpose behind a company. But secondly... it really isn't that hard. Say I had some generic FPS and don't really care about adding achievments. I can use "generic achievment adding 101". An achievment for every completed level, achievments for certain numbers of kills and headshots, and your done. If you want to put a bit more effort in, stick some achievments for doing a certain number of kills within a certain time period, os some multiplayer achievments.

That wouldn't take a developer long at all to do, in fact, it would most likely go along with the already in-built stat tracking. A developer could opt out of making achievments, but why would they? Players love them, they create more sales, and they're a piece of cake to impliment.

well, an option for the user to switch them off could fix that, though I don't believe a message saying you've earned an achievment every now and then could ever really bother someone. Maybe even just switch off the in-game alert.

I do agree though that developers shouldn't be forced to include them, though I don't see why they wouldn't want to. It adds to sales firstly, which is the purpose behind a company. But secondly... it really isn't that hard. Say I had some generic FPS and don't really care about adding achievments. I can use "generic achievment adding 101". An achievment for every completed level, achievments for certain numbers of kills and headshots, and your done. If you want to put a bit more effort in, stick some achievments for doing a certain number of kills within a certain time period, os some multiplayer achievments.

That wouldn't take a developer long at all to do, in fact, it would most likely go along with the already in-built stat tracking. A developer could opt out of making achievments, but why would they? Players love them, they create more sales, and they're a piece of cake to impliment.

DriftRS

Exhibit A

When a feature in a console causes people to play games in order to increase a meaningless number by doing things you would not otherwise want to do, it is officially broken. That people want it is irrelevant. Drug addicts want their hits as well; that doesn't mean we should give it to them.

Whatever happened to, you know, playing games because they're enjoyable?

I don't think fans are as much against is it, as they find it completely useless. I'll put it to you this way, Nintendo was actually the first to have an achievement system, but instead of some little pop up at the top of the screen, telling you that you increased a useless gamer score. You got in game rewards like the different endings in Metroid depending on your precentage of upgrades or what happens when you get a 96 on Mario World. Isn't that the same as getting a little icon or a few points for getting 50 kills online, just that those rewards actually have a bearing on the game.

The other thing I don't like about achievements is the fact that its become a business, developers will use it as a selling point for some of the more OCD gamers. You know how many people on here I saw bought that terrible Terminator game because it was an easy 1000 points? Also to elaborate further on that, I don't like how many gamers act like achievements are more important than the actual game. I know devs who actually craft a quality game and then have to shoehorn in some achievements probably feel the same way. Its clear that developers aren't really behind the idea of achievements, so Sony had to make it mandatory because they weren't doing trophies for every game. I think its a pointless system, its not extra content, it doesn't add stages or anything to the game and the bulk of them are just busy work.

There are very few games that I thought actually had a set of trophies/achievements that were rewarding to get. If there is to be an achievement system it should be like old games where your reward was in game, not some useless icon on the menu, or the points you earn should be able to be used for something, sort of like Club Nintendo. Until then, I find them a complete waste.

[QUOTE="DriftRS"]

well, an option for the user to switch them off could fix that, though I don't believe a message saying you've earned an achievment every now and then could ever really bother someone. Maybe even just switch off the in-game alert.

I do agree though that developers shouldn't be forced to include them, though I don't see why they wouldn't want to. It adds to sales firstly, which is the purpose behind a company. But secondly... it really isn't that hard. Say I had some generic FPS and don't really care about adding achievments. I can use "generic achievment adding 101". An achievment for every completed level, achievments for certain numbers of kills and headshots, and your done. If you want to put a bit more effort in, stick some achievments for doing a certain number of kills within a certain time period, os some multiplayer achievments.

That wouldn't take a developer long at all to do, in fact, it would most likely go along with the already in-built stat tracking. A developer could opt out of making achievments, but why would they? Players love them, they create more sales, and they're a piece of cake to impliment.

bob_newman

Might have been wise to emphasize that first.

I think Nintendo would benefit from a universal system that did not require devs to add to their games. If a game does not have achievements then you could automatically get a small amount of achievements for merely playing the game.

Nothing has to be absolute. I feel almost as if Nintendo could totally one up MS and Sony by making an achievement system that is more friendly to both gamers and developers. If Nintendo made a format for it on Wii then devs could use if they wanted to. Gamers should also get to decide how they are informed of getting a new achievement.

Instead of focusing on achievements I want developers to use that time to make their game fun and instead giving us in-game achievements, like unlockables. I love how Resident Evil game handle this. Those games give you new costumes, infinite ammo to wapons, things that actually change your experience. I own a PS3 and I have never cared for the trophies.

I don't know about everyone else here but I play games because I like playing games not to earn Cosmetic Awards.

Miyamoto says it better than me

shoryuken_

I rather just not have them, and it would be a waste of Nintendo's time.

Exhibit A

When a feature in a console causes people to play games in order to increase a meaningless number by doing things you would not otherwise want to do, it is officially broken. That people want it is irrelevant. Drug addicts want their hits as well; that doesn't mean we should give it to them.

Whatever happened to, you know, playing games because they're enjoyable?

GabuEx

Nintendo has higher priorities when it comes to fixing their online system.

I understand why some would be against it, and I'm nowhere near a 100% in any of my games. Also though I see most you say it doesn't enhance the gameplay, but at times it really has. Last night playing L4D2 our group of 4 was trying to get an achievement that requires a lot of teamwork to get to the end of a campaign while carrying a garden gnome, yes its silly and "pointless" but we had a lot of fun, it was challenging and we dropped it right when the helicopter showed up to get rescued. We still didn't get it, but it was intense, and really we wouldn't have thought of something like that to do for no reason. It's not all bad, you can completely ignore them if you wish.

I've got a couple of games with achievements.. They couldn't be more pointless. Adds replayability? Yeah, to those who are amuzed by a little icon and text. Can't say I'm one of those. Would be nice if they rewarded you with something you could actually use instead.

For me, it's pointless. You know that unlocking things are also an archivement. On Super Smash Bros, you need to do things like beat x times a special mode to unlock maps or characters. Isn't it similar to the archivement systems?

For me, it's pointless. You know that unlocking things are also an archivement. On Super Smash Bros, you need to do things like beat x times a special mode to unlock maps or characters. Isn't it similar to the archivement systems?

chris3116

About all the guys speaking of useless icons and so on... Actually, everything we Gamers do is useless, every Mario level you beat is useless in the end, but after all, it's the fun that counts. I remember when I was a kid, a lot of neightbours tried to get Smaragd Weapon down in Final Fantasy and I did it. Sure it was useless as the reward was nonsense, but after all, I was able to speak with my neightbours and gave them tips how I did it. Why I tell you this story? Because similar things happen playing Ps3 games. There are gamers in my friend list messaging me for trophies they don't get like the highscore in a minigame of the new Ratchet and Clank game (which by the way impemented trophies perfectly). Also, nobody said that the trophies don't have to be part of the game, especially in almost every mario game they could easely increase it. So where's the problem if somebody sees that you finished game xy or beat optional boss z or got ab in every level of cd? It can actually lead to more socializing and isn't that what Nintendo once intended to do? Sure they focussed on local muliplayer which is shown in the horrible online service but stil, nobody would be forced to go after them and besides: i don't think that trophies can possible destory the gaming experience, tell me one Game on PS3/X360 where trophies really destroied ones gaming experience

So far in this thread I haven't seen ONE argument against Wii achievements. That people think they are pointless, don't add anything or simply are dumb shouldn't effect anything as those people would't care if the Wii got achievements anyway. Why should the people that don't care about achievement stop achievements for the people that wants it?

Trophies on the PS3 has probably been the best thing that could happen to me personally. Getting the Platinum on games like Mirror's Edge, Dead Space and Bioshock actually encourages me to play the game vastly different than I usually should and I don't regret any of it. It was years ago that I actually tested myself of what I could do in a game outside of the main quest and the Trophies has been a great bone for going back to that again. On the Wii, DS and PSP I usually just rush trough the game to finish it because there are so many more games to play on them. On the PS3 however I have more than not stayed with a game for much longer and it has given me a much better experience and a much better idea of the game I've just played. There are too many AAA games in every $10 sales bin in any store that's it's easy to rush trough games which is just as bad IMO as playing a game just for trophies.

That's not to say all games with achiements are like that. I burned myself badly for playing Alone in Dark: Inferno on the PS3 and it was awful. Yes there are developers that will basically advertise that they have easy achievements and they usually suck but that's no different than advertise that you have Mario in a game just to sell more copies even though 70% of all games with him are crap.

I think it's important to point out that I am not one of those that actually cares about the number of trophies I have, I only care about certain games and sometimes they have great trophies in them to encourage me to play it even longer and give me a better experience in the end.

So far in this thread I haven't seen ONE argument against Wii achievements. That people think they are pointless, don't add anything or simply are dumb shouldn't effect anything as those people would't care if the Wii got achievements anyway. Why should the people that don't care about achievement stop achievements for the people that wants it?

JLF1

Pretty much.

All you need to do is just put an off switch to stop the achievement prompts,along with leaving the achievement system itself out of the way of normal use,and anybody who dislikes achievements doesn't have to deal with them.

I still don't see why nintendo needs some universal system. There's no way to display your useless score online, and the idea of forcing devs to use achievements like MS does doesn't sit right with me. It's one thing telling me I earned a stamp in wii sports, that's ok its an arcade game, but I wouldn't want it in zedla.

Achievements, while IMO pointless, fit in same games (arcade ones), and don't fit in others. So just let the devs do their own achievements.

Nintendo doesn't need to introduce some universal pointless online **** measuring contest.

I still don't see why nintendo needs some universal system. There's no way to display your useless score online, and the idea of forcing devs to use achievements like MS does doesn't sit right with me. It's one thing telling me I earned a stamp in wii sports, that's ok its an arcade game, but I wouldn't want it in zedla.

Achievements, while IMO pointless, fit in same games (arcade ones), and don't fit in others. So just let the devs do their own achievements.

Nintendo doesn't need to introduce some universal pointless online **** measuring contest.

goblaa

Let me ask you a question, in what way would an universal achievement system on the Wii hurt your gaming expernience?

So far in this thread I haven't seen ONE argument against Wii achievements. JLF1

Ok, and maybe you won't see a legitimate argument against Wii achievements. However, just because there isn't an argument against it doesn't mean that you have to be all for it, either. Personally speaking, I can also do without a forced system that artificially tries to keep track of your gaming accomplishments, which is something that gamers should be fine with setting for themselves. I'm fine with the concept of achievements, but if this was something that not every developer had to do and set a specific point/award system for, I would actually care more about it. As it stands on the other systems, I can see how it would feel annoying or even pointless, seeing as how every game has to have such a system implemented, regardless of whether or not the game was designed to do so.

There's nothing wrong with achievements or the like, but if the time and energy spent on such a system can be better used, why not forgo it for the sake of actually improving the game? It's cool that you're a fan of the idea and all, but if you ask me, it feels more like a tool as it stands now, so I can't say I support it too heavily.

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

I still don't see why nintendo needs some universal system. There's no way to display your useless score online, and the idea of forcing devs to use achievements like MS does doesn't sit right with me. It's one thing telling me I earned a stamp in wii sports, that's ok its an arcade game, but I wouldn't want it in zedla.

Achievements, while IMO pointless, fit in same games (arcade ones), and don't fit in others. So just let the devs do their own achievements.

Nintendo doesn't need to introduce some universal pointless online **** measuring contest.

JLF1

Let me ask you a question, in what way would an universal achievement system on the Wii hurt your gaming expernience?

None. I just don't see why nintendo needs a universal systemm for it when developers could just do it on thier own.

[QUOTE="JLF1"]

So far in this thread I haven't seen ONE argument against Wii achievements. Madmangamer364

Ok, and maybe you won't see a legitimate argument against Wii achievements. However, just because there isn't an argument against it doesn't mean that you have to be all for it, either. Personally speaking, I can also do without a forced system that artificially tries to keep track of your gaming accomplishments, which is something that gamers should be fine with setting for themselves. I'm fine with the concept of achievements, but if this was something that not every developer had to do and set a specific point/award system for, I would actually care more about it. As it stands on the other systems, I can see how it would feel annoying or even pointless, seeing as how every game has to have such a system implemented, regardless of whether or not the game was designed to do so.

There's nothing wrong with achievements or the like, but if the time and energy spent on such a system can be better used, why not forgo it for the sake of actually improving the game? It's cool that you're a fan of the idea and all, but if you ask me, it feels more like a tool as it stands now, so I can't say I support it too heavily.

So let me get this straight. Because there isn't anything negative about achivements I shouldn't be possitive about it?

IMO I wish Nintendo would force a lot of things on developers instead of letting them get away with any crap on the Wii that most developers do. We are talking about small icons popping up every now and then in a game, it's easy to implement it. If adding achievements in a game would seriously damage the quality of a game of take endless amount of work force then why haven't we about this from developers before?

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

[QUOTE="JLF1"]

So far in this thread I haven't seen ONE argument against Wii achievements. JLF1

Ok, and maybe you won't see a legitimate argument against Wii achievements. However, just because there isn't an argument against it doesn't mean that you have to be all for it, either. Personally speaking, I can also do without a forced system that artificially tries to keep track of your gaming accomplishments, which is something that gamers should be fine with setting for themselves. I'm fine with the concept of achievements, but if this was something that not every developer had to do and set a specific point/award system for, I would actually care more about it. As it stands on the other systems, I can see how it would feel annoying or even pointless, seeing as how every game has to have such a system implemented, regardless of whether or not the game was designed to do so.

There's nothing wrong with achievements or the like, but if the time and energy spent on such a system can be better used, why not forgo it for the sake of actually improving the game? It's cool that you're a fan of the idea and all, but if you ask me, it feels more like a tool as it stands now, so I can't say I support it too heavily.

So let me get this straight. Because there isn't anything negative about achivements I shouldn't be possitive about it?

IMO I wish Nintendo would force a lot of things on developers instead of letting them get away with any crap on the Wii that most developers do. We are talking about small icons popping up every now and then in a game, it's easy to implement it. If adding achievements in a game would seriously damage the quality of a game of take endless amount of work force then why haven't we about this from developers before?

So you're saying all games regardless of genre should have achievements?

So you're saying all games regardless of genre should have achievements?

goblaa

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

[QUOTE="JLF1"]

So far in this thread I haven't seen ONE argument against Wii achievements. JLF1

Ok, and maybe you won't see a legitimate argument against Wii achievements. However, just because there isn't an argument against it doesn't mean that you have to be all for it, either. Personally speaking, I can also do without a forced system that artificially tries to keep track of your gaming accomplishments, which is something that gamers should be fine with setting for themselves. I'm fine with the concept of achievements, but if this was something that not every developer had to do and set a specific point/award system for, I would actually care more about it. As it stands on the other systems, I can see how it would feel annoying or even pointless, seeing as how every game has to have such a system implemented, regardless of whether or not the game was designed to do so.

There's nothing wrong with achievements or the like, but if the time and energy spent on such a system can be better used, why not forgo it for the sake of actually improving the game? It's cool that you're a fan of the idea and all, but if you ask me, it feels more like a tool as it stands now, so I can't say I support it too heavily.

So let me get this straight. Because there isn't anything negative about achivements I shouldn't be possitive about it?

IMO I wish Nintendo would force a lot of things on developers instead of letting them get away with any crap on the Wii that most developers do. We are talking about small icons popping up every now and then in a game, it's easy to implement it. If adding achievements in a game would seriously damage the quality of a game of take endless amount of work force then why haven't we about this from developers before?

Not exactly what I was saying; the "you" in that sentence didn't exactly apply to you personally, but rather anyone. to Feel free to be as positive about it as you want, but that doesn't mean that everyone has to feel the same way about it as you do. I was just pointing out that while there may not be this glaring flaw with achievements doesn't mean that those who aren't supportive of it has to be.

Anyways, your opinions on the relationship between Nintendo and third party developers is something I can't really help you too much with, seeing as how I'm not involved with either. What I will say is that one can argue that the relationship between Nintendo and third parties is what it is now because there was a point in time where Nintendo was too forceful. However, this is probably a discussion better saved for another time.

Truth be told, I have NO clue in regards to the time and effort being put into the achievement/trophy system as a whole, as well as what game developers have to go through to implement it with all of their games. My guess is that it probably isn't something that's too taxing on the development process of a game, but even so, if it was a developer's intent to go along with a system of its own that would perhaps be superior or even decide to drop it altogether because of the type of experience it wants to create, I would hope that it would be allowed to do so without go by some unnecessary guidelines of sorts because of a universal system that requires all games have a certain number of "goals" that produce meaningless points. It may not damage the quality of the game, but it might contribute to severing the connection between the game and the player that a developer might have in mind.

The achievements I see in Metroid Prime Trilogy really break up the action. A big part of the Prime series was it's immersiveness..the way they had the achievement showing up in the middle of the screen was really annoying.