Why do gamers here not want an achievment system on Wii?

[QUOTE="Burning-Sludge"]

Hey Hey Hey! You accused me of being a Nintendo mind slave first!! If you want a 360 or PS3 like online community then go there and don't ruin the Wii's community. The Wii was made to exel at local multiplayer anyways.

VGobbsesser

Why can't the Wii have both,local and online?One wouldn't ruin the other.

Local online has became more scarce on the HD consoles and there aren't any local multi player FPSs on the Wii. You do know that games that Don't have local multiplayer require an additional console to play with another player.

Local online has became more scarce on the HD consoles and there aren't any local multi player FPSs on the Wii.

[QUOTE="Burning-Sludge"]

[QUOTE="GamerForca"]Achievements add replay value to a game. You don't have to do them, but they'll give you more incentive to keep playing. Nintendo doesn't have to get rid of unlockables in games like SSBB. They could add a system that brings the best of both worlds; you get a trophy for completing the achievement to show off to your friends, and you unlock something to use in-game. It could be a great system.GamerForca

Or you can get a console that does that already because I don't ever want to hear about my friends bragging to me about how many stickers he/she collected. If you need cosmetic awards to make you keep playing games, you may not be a gamer.

It's a good addition, not a necessity. I don't NEED it, but it adds replay value, even though I'm certain you would never admit it. The system works well with the 360 and it would be great for the currently pitiful Nintendo online to add something similar (achievement/unlockable combination). Just because Nintendo tells you it's unnecessary doesn't mean you have to agree with every damn thing they say.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Oh and by the way i'm pretty sure that you can turn the little blip on your screen from popping up when you get an achievement. I just don't see a good reason why not to include an achievement system.MUSH_IS_PWNs

That's great in all but you are suppose to find reasons to include an Cosmetic Award system. The only valid reason I have seen so far is to increase replay value but the games that can use them already have awards that do things, and putting it on games that can't use it well like games in the action adventure and adventure genre are just a waste.

[QUOTE="MUSH_IS_PWNs"] Couldn't have said it better myself. Oh and by the way i'm pretty sure that you can turn the little blip on your screen from popping up when you get an achievement. I just don't see a good reason why not to include an achievement system.Burning-Sludge

That's great in all but you are suppose to find reasons to include an Cosmetic Award system. The only valid reason I have seen so far is to increase replay value but the games that can use them already have awards that do things, and putting it on games that can't use it well like games in the action adventure and adventure genre are just a waste.

I also wish Nintendo did what Valve does with their games by Adding Developer Commentary after you beat the game. I love listening to it when I played the Orange Box.

[QUOTE="Burning-Sludge"]

Or you can get a console that does that already because I don't ever want to hear about my friends bragging to me about how many stickers he/she collected. If you need cosmetic awards to make you keep playing games, you may not be a gamer.

It's a good addition, not a necessity. I don't NEED it, but it adds replay value, even though I'm certain you would never admit it. The system works well with the 360 and it would be great for the currently pitiful Nintendo online to add something similar (achievement/unlockable combination). Just because Nintendo tells you it's unnecessary doesn't mean you have to agree with every damn thing they say.

[QUOTE="fabz_95"][QUOTE="Pyro767"]We're "above it," and it's "not worth it." It's a "useless game-extender." Truth be told, I think that most Nintendo gamers do want some sort of achievement system, but they know Nintendo won't do it, and therefore they say they don't want or need it.Pyro767

I actually agree with you too ^^ As I own every next gen system (konsoles/handhelds and even an iPhone), I can clearly see the strong and weak parts of every system. But because Gamers on PS3/X360 boards are asking for new stuff (ingame xmb as one example of PS3), their system seem to improve much faster than Nintendos Wii. I do understand that a big amount of Wii gamers aren't hardcore gamer, but those who are, seem to be mostly hardcore nintendo Fans who defend their system no matter how hard the facts hit them oO

Probably because many only own a Wii. I said the same thing until i got a 360 and totally changed my opinion. Also the Wii's horribly poor online infastructure probably means its not possible to have a system up like that.

Fact is Nintendo keeps telling us what gamers want when they absolutely have no idea, maybe they should try asking us instead.

Nintendo_Man

Not really. I owned a 360 at one point, and during that time, I STILL thought acheivements were pretty pointless. Sure, they're cool to use for bragging about your Gamer Score, but I want something that's actually worthwhile.

if you constantly look for what is lacking as opposed to what you have you'll never be happy. Why should nintendo copy microsoft? also this has no effect on gameplay. it's not there. so what. look at what you have instead of what you don't have and you'll find yourself much happier in life.teknic1200

Your logic is just dump, since the beginning of human being we were on a way to increase everything we have, started by creating weapons out of stones and creating fire to nowadays. If we wouldn't want anything to increase, we would still use 8bit gaming systems xD It is important that gaming systems increase their power and servicein every aspect and this is why. TC just had an idea how Nintendo could do it with the Wii and everyone who's not a blind fanboy can clearly see, that Nintendos online service is the weakeest this gen. You can actually do both, accept what is delivered, even be happy with it, but still giving ideas how to improve their system which actually works pretty well with Sony (they added a lot since release, listening to the fans). There's always something to add or improve, ALWAYS

Some people buy and rent games that are almost universally considered bad just for trophies/achievements. It's saying to developers, "if you put in achievements, I will play the game no matter how bad it is." If a game only had like 5 or so achievements for things that were there to complete and they were actually a challenge instead of just the stupid progression crap, then I might see the point in being proud of getting trophies. Prince of Persia for PS3 was a huge example of lazy trophie/achievements. I got 56% of them and did not try. The negativity comes from people who only play a game because of trophies and not because of the real reason you should play a game. You should want to play X game because it seems interesting and fun to you, not because you can get "earn" meaningless crap.

as a sole wii owner... i wouldnt mind achievemants.. sure its copyingxbox and ps3 so if its not there i dont care... what i really want is 1 gamer name for all games and online on every new game and virtual console games.. screw achiev\ments if they give me that.

[QUOTE="young80s"][QUOTE="GamerForca"]

It's a good addition, not a necessity. I don't NEED it, but it adds replay value, even though I'm certain you would never admit it. The system works well with the 360 and it would be great for the currently pitiful Nintendo online to add something similar (achievement/unlockable combination). Just because Nintendo tells you it's unnecessary doesn't mean you have to agree with every damn thing they say.

GamerForca

But its not a make or break addition, why would Nintendo force developers to add it if its not really going to affect sales? Its just hard to imagine someone buying a game or a system cause of achievements. It may give you personal joy but if it doesn't reflect a measurable change in sales then it just isn't worth any amount of time or effort on Nintendos part. I, personally don't really care that much but even with the extra replay value who would buy a wii because it suddenly has achievementsyoung80s

if you constantly look for what is lacking as opposed to what you have you'll never be happy. Why should nintendo copy microsoft? also this has no effect on gameplay. it's not there. so what. look at what you have instead of what you don't have and you'll find yourself much happier in life.teknic1200

Because online is a standard,expected feature nowadays,and Nintendo is lagging behind it.Some might argue that Nintendo would be "copying" the other two companies,but those are the people that take all the console wars things seriously; it's simply the most up-to-date, standard thing to do.I guess we should pan every company in existence for "copying" the analogue stick from Nintendo (and it's debatable whether or not Nintendo even copied it themselves from someone else),but we don't,because it's what's standard.

And by giving the player goals for these achievements,it can affect gameplay."Beat the game using only the X weapon." "Beat this level in X amount of seconds." "Beat this boss without dying." All those things do affect normal gameplay,but in an indirect way.

This thread is very meh. The trophy/achievement system are practically useless. People may say that they increase replay value or adds a better sense of community(the jury is still out on that), the fact of the matter is that they are just cosmetics awards that do not add anything to the game itself. I could understand if completing achievements actually gave you something in game (like sidequests), but they do not. This is what achievements are to me:

Hey! (insert name here) you just beat this game; in doing so, you have completed around 75% of the achievements for this game, but if you want to get 100% you should do these things); -Beat game on Hard -Beat game on Ultra hard -Try not to die on Blah Blah Level -Defeat Boss without getting hit -Beat this level in blank blank seconds - etc, etc, etc.

To me these are things most "hardcore" gamers would do anyway especially if the game was really enjoyable. The best example of achievements are ones that are actually integrated into the game like SSBB where you get a trophy, but you also either unlock a character/stage/music/demo or a combination of either one. But I like the discussion that is going on here. How posters are being attacked and being called mindslaves for not wanting achievements or for seeing them as nothing other than a cheap cosmetic feature like the killcam in the latest string of CoD games. That is all:|gamefan67

Some of us already do that; we just want a nice little achievement system to prove we did certain challenges,and to improve our experiences with challenges created by the developer themselves.It's more than just cosmetic.

I would like an achievement system for the Wii partly because it will add more to its games. Currently, when you purchase a game all you can do is beat it without gaining any extra reward. With the achievement system it would add more depth and meaning to the games you purchase.

I would like an achievement system for the Wii partly because it will add more to its games. Currently, when you purchase a game all you can do is beat it without gaining any extra reward. With the achievement system it would add more depth and meaning to the games you purchase.

Stuffed_Monkey

It wouldn't add any depth or meaning because the award is merely cosmetic.

[QUOTE="Stuffed_Monkey"]

I would like an achievement system for the Wii partly because it will add more to its games. Currently, when you purchase a game all you can do is beat it without gaining any extra reward. With the achievement system it would add more depth and meaning to the games you purchase.

Burning-Sludge

It wouldn't add any depth or meaning because the award is merely cosmetic.

But the goal you would need to accomplish in order to achieve the achievement isn't.

Typical. What I saidwent right overyour head.Your replay value is different endings, play styles, and content? With my suggested achievement/unlockable system, for completing certain things on the list (beating the game on the highest difficulty or w/o using the most powerful weapons, etc), you could get the achievement points/trophy AND unlock those things. You could get Seth in SFIV AND get the points for beating the game with every character. Why would it be such a bad thing? It adds depth to a terribly shallow online system.

GamerForca

Most people are against it because they don't want to admit it's a great addition which Nintendo didn't think of first. Finishing the game on highest difficulty, collecting everything, finishing the game fast or stuff like this is pretty nice, achievements like enduring thousands of online matches is just senseless. I'm up for achievements that challenge the player to go beyond, like the achievements on Mega Man 9, those are nice.Junior_AIN

Nothing you said went over my head, the point is an achievement doesn't mean anything, it doesn't add depth, it doesn't mean your the ultimate gamer, its a simple checklist of things to do. You could open up the game manual and in the back of that little book write, "beat the game in under 2 hours" its the same thing as an achievement. And like I said and it either went over your head or you ignored it for the sake of your argument(I will assume the latter) with an achievement system, devs are deciding to make achievements the rewards for the game instead of crafting real rewards. Hence the reason the achievement system is not that great, it has no benefit to gaming and it actually serves as a detriment, do you undestand that? Sepewrath

No, I don't understand how it serves as a detriment when so many people, including myself,like it. Considering that my suggestion, which is an achievement system combined with an unlockable award system comparable to that in SSBB, went over your head again (or you're just ignoring it,but I'm going to assume the former), I don't know how to simplify what I'm trying suggest. The thing is, ten years from now and assuming I'm still gaming, I'd like to go online, look up my profile, and see what I accomplished in my favorite games in the past. There aren't any online stats in Ninty's games, so I'll never see what I did in SSBB, Metroid, Mario, etc. I want to unlock modes and characters and all that in-game, AND get a trophy or achievement to remember it by. Sure, maybe it's hinderingyour gaming, but there's nothing I have toassume for my argument; you're in the minority on this one.

And like I said and it either went over your head or you ignored it for the sake of your argument(I will assume the latter) with an achievement system, devs are deciding to make achievements the rewards for the game instead of crafting real rewards. Hence the reason the achievement system is not that great, it has no benefit to gaming and it actually serves as a detriment, do you undestand that?Sepewrath

I don't see how implementing any achievement system is possible at all since nintendo does not have a unified online system in place. This is all pretty pointless.

I don't see how implementing any achievement system is possible at all since nintendo does not have a unified online system in place. This is all pretty pointless.

goblaa

...This is pretty much one of the few valid points in this thread; the Wii can't have an achievement system simply because it's basically impossible for Nintendo to implement it anyways.Oh well...there's always next generation.

I don't see how implementing any achievement system is possible at all since nintendo does not have a unified online system in place. This is all pretty pointless.

goblaa

I really hope nintendo never incorporates this. I was just playing god of war collection and the trophies that frequently pop up sound like they are written by a jackass. They are inconsistent with the game's tone and they're very distracting. Usually you haven't achieved anything either - they pop up after completing sections of the game.

It's late at this point. Considering they still don't have something other than Friend codes (which are a pain)...I really don't see it happening.

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

I don't see how implementing any achievement system is possible at all since nintendo does not have a unified online system in place. This is all pretty pointless.

clicketyclick

Your method actually does sound more desirable than the current "achievements" system, though, since there are game-related unlockable content that is offered when you're able to pull off certain tasks (even though I don't think it's much better than just having "unlockables" in a game and calling it that, to be honest). Like you pointed out, though, there are a few Wii games that have already done this, and even so, I'm not sure how I would feel about it becoming unified and required for all games to do. Developer-created goals are nice and all, but when anything is forced, its meaning starts to become less profound and more of a hassle and/or hurdle. Plus, I don't think this type of thing works for all games, seeing as how you have a lot of games that either require or encourage those who are playing it to focus more on how the individual plays the game, rather than how a developer wants certain events to play out.

Personally speaking, even if Nintendo COULD implement an Xbox Live achievement-like structure with the Wii, I can't say I would be too deeply bothered by it either way. All I ask for is that it somehow doesn't get in the way of development freedom and interfere with the experience a game is supposed to be. When looking at games like Animal Crossing, to name one out of the top of my head, that pretty much give the individual player the chance to enjoy what they want when they want, it would be disappointing to see some unified structure become a potential annoyance or even detriment to what we've come to expect. In other words, if we are going to see this in the future, I hope it feels natural for each and every game that has it.

This thread is very meh. The trophy/achievement system are practically useless. People may say that they increase replay value or adds a better sense of community(the jury is still out on that), the fact of the matter is that they are just cosmetics awards that do not add anything to the game itself. I could understand if completing achievements actually gave you something in game (like sidequests), but they do not. This is what achievements are to me:

Hey! (insert name here) you just beat this game; in doing so, you have completed around 75% of the achievements for this game, but if you want to get 100% you should do these things); -Beat game on Hard -Beat game on Ultra hard -Try not to die on Blah Blah Level -Defeat Boss without getting hit -Beat this level in blank blank seconds - etc, etc, etc.

To me these are things most "hardcore" gamers would do anyway especially if the game was really enjoyable. The best example of achievements are ones that are actually integrated into the game like SSBB where you get a trophy, but you also either unlock a character/stage/music/demo or a combination of either one. But I like the discussion that is going on here. How posters are being attacked and being called mindslaves for not wanting achievements or for seeing them as nothing other than a cheap cosmetic feature like the killcam in the latest string of CoD games. That is all:|gamefan67

Some of us already do that; we just want a nice little achievement system to prove we did certain challenges,and to improve our experiences with challenges created by the developer themselves.It's more than just cosmetic.

Everything you said sounds very cosmetic:|

No, I don't understand how it serves as a detriment when so many people, including myself,like it. Considering that my suggestion, which is an achievement system combined with an unlockable award system comparable to that in SSBB, went over your head again (or you're just ignoring it,but I'm going to assume the former), I don't know how to simplify what I'm trying suggest. The thing is, ten years from now and assuming I'm still gaming, I'd like to go online, look up my profile, and see what I accomplished in my favorite games in the past. There aren't any online stats in Ninty's games, so I'll never see what I did in SSBB, Metroid, Mario, etc. I want to unlock modes and characters and all that in-game, AND get a trophy or achievement to remember it by. Sure, maybe it's hinderingyour gaming, but there's nothing I have toassume for my argument; you're in the minority on this one.

GamerForca

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]And like I said and it either went over your head or you ignored it for the sake of your argument(I will assume the latter) with an achievement system, devs are deciding to make achievements the rewards for the game instead of crafting real rewards. Hence the reason the achievement system is not that great, it has no benefit to gaming and it actually serves as a detriment, do you undestand that?clicketyclick

All the stuff your talking about is in game rewards, not common universal achievements. Thats exactly what I have been saying Nintendo should stick to and encourage, instead of conforming to a system that downplays those type of in game rewards. Seeing your picture up in the Fishing Hole is infinitely more enjoyable then getting another 50pts. Sepewrath

@clicketyclick

Honestly, I'm in agreement with you in a lot of your points. Heck, I'm not going to stand here and lie about some of those MP3 medals, as I got a few of them that were pretty funny. In particular, that Repticide medal caught me off-guard when I was able to freeze one of those things just as the weapon those things throw came back to it. I'm not saying that the structure can't work, as I believe what you've said so far indicates that it can have some value. I just think a more unified system isn't the way to go here. What made it special for MP3 was the fact that it was just for MP3, and I can see other games opting to acknowledge the gamers who are playing the game in different manners that would go better in line with that game's strengths.

As for the Animal Crossing thing, first off, I agree about the Golden items thing, as the requirements to unlock the rod and net make no sense. :P As for the way the game in handled, you're correct in saying a large part of the game's appeal is rewarding you for hitting certain in-game milestones. However, it does so by rewarding you with in-game items that compliment the collection-based gameplay that it is, which I think feels more natural than most achievement-like systems in video games, whether it is console-based or game specific. The beauty of it all is that while it still might have those milestones, it's just part of the game's identity, which means that they still have the freedom that is pretty much what the game is about while still being awarded for working hard or stumbling into certain things. When it comes to this particular type of game, a unified system might serve as unnecessary filler for something that doesn't need it to begin with, seeing as how the game takes care of itself when it comes awarding players of it when it feels like it needs to, or if there's a certain limit on what to reward, might take something away from it.

Once again, games can be given their share of acknowledgements when a developer feels like it's important to do so, but I'm not entirely convinced that is what the current achievement system is all about as it stands now. Trophies or a score for a specific set of goals just don't feel as rewarding as it can be for doing certain things at certain points, and I would prefer it if games weren't required to go by a standard system and could just be themselves are reward according to the kind of game it is and how it wants to treat its players.

You might want to check Smash again, because it sure enough does keep records. And I clearly am in the majority as the very basis of the topic is a response to Nintendo fans overwhelmingly saying achievements are worthless. All the people who really want achievements simply want it for the sake of vanity, and thats all good and great, if thats your thing it doesn't bother me. But don't act like its necessary to have, that it adds a single thing to the game because it isn't and it doesn't. If you want to idolize a game score, knock yourself out, but don't try and force that ideology on everyone else. And I will explain one more time, get this, on the other systems, developers have forsaken in game rewards for standard trophies/achievements. Get it, why do you think it would be any different on a Nintendo console? Maybe Nintendo would not do that, but the majority of everyone else would. Sepewrath

SSBB keeps records online? I might sell it one day, and will therefore need to have a website to view my records/accomplishments on. Direct me to the site that keeps records for SSBB and I will cede that point to you. Though the game itself doesn't keep any stats for onlineplay. And saying Nintendo fans are strongly against achievements is worthless because, first of all, you're probably not even counting me and others that are for it as Ninty fans, which is dead wrong. I'm a Ninty fan wanting some changes. Secondly, many of the Wii fans on this board have the Wii as their only console (as has been pointed out numerous times), so of course they're going to say achievements are worthless. Add PS3 and 360 gamers to the mix andthe opinionson this subjectinexorably swing in the other direction. You can say it doesn't add anything to gaming (and you're right in some cases), but the vast majority of gamers that enjoy achievements say otherwise.

edit: clicketyclick, that last paragraph of yours is almost exactly what I'm hoping for.

As for the way the game in handled, you're correct in saying a large part of the game's appeal is rewarding you for hitting certain in-game milestones. However, it does so by rewarding you with in-game items that compliment the collection-based gameplay that it is, which I think feels more natural than most achievement-like systems in video games, whether it is console-based or game specific. The beauty of it all is that while it still might have those milestones, it's just part of the game's identity, which means that they still have the freedom that is pretty much what the game is about while still being awarded for working hard or stumbling into certain things. When it comes to this particular type of game, a unified system might serve as unnecessary filler for something that doesn't need it to begin with, seeing as how the game takes care of itself when it comes awarding players of it when it feels like it needs to, or if there's a certain limit on what to reward, might take something away from it.Madmangamer364

So, getting a trophy for catching the biggest fish at the tourney = good & natural, part of the game's identity and gives you freedom.

But getting a trophy that persists in your gamer ID for catching the biggest fish at the tourney = unnatural, detracts from the game, removes your freedom, and takes something away from the game?

:P

Is it really true that what made the achievement system special in MP3 is that it wasn't used for other things? Or was it because it was so well (and humourously) implemented? If something is excellent, do you want more or less of it? When you first found out that you liked ice cream, was your reaction "oh god don't give me any more ice cream. What made that experience a good one was that I'd never tasted that before, so I don't want it anymore"? Or was it "holy hell what is this amazing sweet cold stuff gimme more"? Sure, there are better and worse flavours, but even considering the danger that you'll taste an icky flavour, it's better to keep eating ice cream than to stop eating it because you enjoyed it the first time and want that experience to remain special.

Making it a requirement for devs to build in some reward system and have those rewards contribute to the player's game space in some way would force the devs to get creative, and maybe this whole system could work to better promote those games.

I'm still surprised that people here, who are members of the Nintendo Club, are against achievement points being rewarded for playing games. Honestly, isn't it more fun to get points for doing something in the game than for filling out some marketing survey? And wouldn't it be cool if those points could be used on the Wii Shop Channel to, say, buy wallpaper for your console screen or buy an outfit for your Mii?

So, getting a trophy for catching the biggest fish at the tourney = good & natural, part of the game's identity and gives you freedom.

But getting a trophy that persists in your gamer ID for catching the biggest fish at the tourney = unnatural, detracts from the game, removes your freedom, and takes something away from the game?

:Pclicketyclick

Good one. :P That said, I honestly don't think it's the same thing. You might be getting trophies in both instances and it might be for the same thing, but I think a specific in-game item in a game of Animal Crossing's type does create something more of an impact than an ID-specific award. What I'm saying is that does a game like Animal Crossing really need to give you two trophies or acknowledgements for the same thing? In this regard, I think it does feel a bit much like filler for a game that doesn't need it, and if I had to choose between the two, I would take Animal Crossing's in-game trophy over the ID one.

Is it really true that what made the achievement system special in MP3 is that it wasn't used for other things? Or was it because it was so well (and humourously) implemented? If something is excellent, do you want more or less of it? When you first found out that you liked ice cream, was your reaction "oh god don't give me any more ice cream. What made that experience a good one was that I'd never tasted that before, so I don't want it anymore"? Or was it "holy hell what is this amazing sweet cold stuff gimme more"? Sure, there are better and worse flavours, but even considering the danger that you'll taste an icky flavour, it's better to keep eating ice cream than to stop eating it because you enjoyed it the first time and want that experience to remain special.

Making it a requirement for devs to build in some reward system and have those rewards contribute to the player's game space in some way would force the devs to get creative, and maybe this whole system could work to better promote those games.

I'm still surprised that people here, who are members of the Nintendo Club, are against achievement points being rewarded for playing games. Honestly, isn't it more fun to get points for doing something in the game than for filling out some marketing survey? And wouldn't it be cool if those points could be used on the Wii Shop Channel to, say, buy wallpaper for your console screen or buy an outfit for your Mii?

clicketyclick

As for that first question, I honestly believe it was because of a combination of the two. Of course, the usage of the system made it something worthwhile, but I think you do have to also give it credit because it was specific to that game. The whole ice cream thing is an interesting analogy, to say the least, but let me put it this way... If I had eaten something that was quite similar to ice cream prior to eating it for the first time, the experience of tasting it probably wouldn't have been as special. Furthermore, if I was aware that it was part of some unified structure where my taste buds could only be treated so much before it loses its flavor or something like that, I might still be able to enjoy ice cream, but I would probably wonder what it could taste like had it been a part of its own individual food type. I hope this is making sense, because this is becoming way too random and off-the-wall for me right now. XD Still, that's what achievements are to me right now, except for the fact that they don't even taste as good as ice cream. :P ...:?

As for your points on making it a requirement for developers to create a reward system, yeah, that is a possibility. However, there is also the opposide side of that coin that suggests what what was meant to be a creative endeavor might serve as something merely slapped-on, and while it could be used to promote games, the impact of an individual game's experience can be hurt when you find out that ALL games offer pretty much the same rewards. This is what some would say is the achievement system as it stands now, being a uniform service, and while it's something that may be desired by some Wii owners, I think it has room to be something more meaningful.

Anyways, if those points could be used to get REAL stuff, I might be more inclined to support the system, depending on what's available. :P Even now, I haven't used a single Club Nintendo point on any item, so I can't say I'm getting too excited about any of the things you speak of in regards to using points. I can't stress enough that I'm not against achievements, but I'm just not crazy of this one system that every game has to abide by as a way of awarding a gamer. I actually like your ideas, but I would rather see specific games offer specific console-related bonuses, if they would offer them at all, if only to try to make playing the games you play a part of your gaming persona. And still, I would rather see the games themselves reward you in-game in a manner that best fits that specific game over even that. Since I couldn't care less about having an ID to show off my multitude of gaming accomplishments, if I'm going to get something for my efforts, I want it to feel special and tailor-made for that game.

Probably because many only own a Wii. I said the same thing until i got a 360 and totally changed my opinion. Also the Wii's horribly poor online infastructure probably means its not possible to have a system up like that.

Fact is Nintendo keeps telling us what gamers want when they absolutely have no idea, maybe they should try asking us instead.

Nintendo_Man

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Remember "customers don't want online games"?

or RPG gamers are cold, lonely people who sit in their basment and play slow games"? (at least that's how I think it went)

[QUOTE="Nintendo_Man"]

Probably because many only own a Wii. I said the same thing until i got a 360 and totally changed my opinion. Also the Wii's horribly poor online infastructure probably means its not possible to have a system up like that.

Fact is Nintendo keeps telling us what gamers want when they absolutely have no idea, maybe they should try asking us instead.

KillerWabbit23

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Remember "customers don't want online games"?

or RPG gamers are cold, lonely people who sit in their basment and play slow games"? (at least that's how I think it went)

I don't want the prospect of empty achievements to promote me to play a game. You don't need them if the game is super fun, which is something Nintendo does excellently.

I'm still surprised that people here, who are members of the Nintendo Club, are against achievement points being rewarded for playing games. Honestly, isn't it more fun to get points for doing something in the game than for filling out some marketing survey? And wouldn't it be cool if those points could be used on the Wii Shop Channel to, say, buy wallpaper for your console screen or buy an outfit for your Mii?

clicketyclick

To be honest, I would be fine with an achievement system under one condition: that they didn't have any point value assigned to them. Achievements are supposed to be just that: achievements, things that you're proud of doing and want to show off. When achievements instead have a point value associated with them, then you get those lists popping up on the internet calling out games that suck but have really easy achievement points so people can make their stupid meaningless number a bigger stupid meaningless number by playing games they don't like, thereby undermining the entire purpose of the "achievement" system. If someone really thinks that something is an achievement that they would be proud to show off to their friends, it seems to me that they should not need the extra carrot of points to compel them to do it.

Although I still find it kinda distressing that some people seem incapable of finding meaning or purpose to playing games if the game isn't telling them when they've accomplished something...

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"]

I'm still surprised that people here, who are members of the Nintendo Club, are against achievement points being rewarded for playing games. Honestly, isn't it more fun to get points for doing something in the game than for filling out some marketing survey? And wouldn't it be cool if those points could be used on the Wii Shop Channel to, say, buy wallpaper for your console screen or buy an outfit for your Mii?

GabuEx

To be honest, I would be fine with an achievement system under one condition: that they didn't have any point value assigned to them. Achievements are supposed to be just that: achievements, things that you're proud of doing and want to show off. When achievements instead have a point value associated with them, then you get those lists popping up on the internet calling out games that suck but have really easy achievement points so people can make their stupid meaningless number a bigger stupid meaningless number by playing games they don't like, thereby undermining the entire purpose of the "achievement" system. If someone really thinks that something is an achievement that they would be proud to show off to their friends, it seems to me that they should not need the extra carrot of points to compel them to do it.

Although I still find it kinda distressing that some people seem incapable of finding meaning or purpose to playing games if the game isn't telling them when they've accomplished something...

SSBB keeps records online? I might sell it one day, and will therefore need to have a website to view my records/accomplishments on. Direct me to the site that keeps records for SSBB and I will cede that point to you. Though the game itself doesn't keep any stats for onlineplay. And saying Nintendo fans are strongly against achievements is worthless because, first of all, you're probably not even counting me and others that are for it as Ninty fans, which is dead wrong. I'm a Ninty fan wanting some changes. Secondly, many of the Wii fans on this board have the Wii as their only console (as has been pointed out numerous times), so of course they're going to say achievements are worthless. Add PS3 and 360 gamers to the mix andthe opinionson this subjectinexorably swing in the other direction. You can say it doesn't add anything to gaming (and you're right in some cases), but the vast majority of gamers that enjoy achievements say otherwise.

edit: clicketyclick, that last paragraph of yours is almost exactly what I'm hoping for.