Why is it that when trying to give us a mature game, companies do the opposite?

As we all know, the Wiis library is full of immature shovelware such as the Petz games. We don't like this of course, and some devs take notice and decide to attempt a mature "hardcore" game. Now though many are succeeding on the "hardcore" front, many of them (in my opinion) failing miserably at making the games mature. Instead of making games with deep imaginative thoughts and realistic attributes, they give us games that though no doubt fun are the things a bunch of rebellious college kids would play. Do you really consider endless gore, cursing every other word, "Eye Candy", etc to be something that an actually mature and responsible individual would desire? Though they are no doubt enjoyable "hardcore" games, No More Heroes, Madworld, Animals De La Murte, etc are immature titles. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

Discuss.

Edit: Note that I never said these weren't awesome games. I just said they are not mature.

Though they are no doubt enjoyable "hardcore" games, No More Heroes, Madworld, Animals De La Murte, etc are immature titles. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

Head_of_games

How so?Because I found No More Heroes' satirical tone,its dare to be unique,its successful social experiment,and its stab on the issue of "video games corrupt the youth/video games cause violence" to be quite mature.

Though they are no doubt enjoyable "hardcore" games, No More Heroes, Madworld, Animals De La Murte, etc are immature titles. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

How so?Because I found No More Heroes' satirical tone,its dare to be unique,its successful social experiment,and its stab on the issue of "video games corrupt the youth/video games cause violence" to be quite mature.

[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"] How so?Because I found No More Heroes' satirical tone,its dare to be unique,its successful social experiment,and its stab on the issue of "video games corrupt the youth/video games cause violence" to be quite mature. SSBFan12

And I found it to be a mature game for the reasons I listed.

[QUOTE="Head_of_games"]

Though they are no doubt enjoyable "hardcore" games, No More Heroes, Madworld, Animals De La Murte, etc are immature titles. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

VGobbsesser

How so?Because I found No More Heroes' satirical tone,its dare to be unique,its successful social experiment,and its stab on the issue of "video games corrupt the youth/video games cause violence" to be quite mature.

same here

also if you want a "deep involving thought provovking" story then heres an idea

read a book

thats the problem with the game bizz imo now a days. devs are concintrating to much on trying to make a giant epic movie and not concintrating enough on just fun.

By your definition of Mature, I'd say not many of those games AT ALL get released. If you're asking for maturity in a game, I assume you're asking for a thought proviking story or message within a game instead of pure "Mature" content.

Suda51's games are definitely like that though, Suda games, Braid, Team ICO games, and maybe BioWare RPGs are about the only truly mature games I can think of.

Its honestly no different on other systems, Gears of War is nothing resembeling maturity, nor Halo.

I might give you Silent Hill though, I loves me some Silent Hill.

How exactly would you define mature? Oh and I like fun games. I don't care for the hardcore/mature nonsense some of you are wrapped up in.AlexSays

Man, you don't know how much of a fan I'm becoming of yours... :P

Anyways, to add to this topic, I really don't know why developers feel like they have to go so outside the box with some of these games. I want to say that perhaps they're looking for that formula that will appeal to Wii owners, but it's not like the approach has been working that well. I would think that since you're not exactly working with a child-friendly game, you really wouldn't have make drastic moves to make an appealing game, so as long as the gameplay itself is solid. But, seeing as how I don't have any of the games you're talking about, how much do I really know about this? :P

As we all know, the Wiis library is full of immature shovelware such as the Petz games. We don't like this of course, and some devs take notice and decide to attempt a mature "hardcore" game. Now though many are succeeding on the "hardcore" front, many of them (in my opinion) failing miserably at making the games mature. Instead of making games with deep imaginative thoughts and realistic attributes, they give us games that though no doubt fun are the things a bunch of rebellious college kids would play. Do you really consider endless gore, cursing every other word, "Eye Candy", etc to be something that an actually mature and responsible individual would desire? Though they are no doubt enjoyable "hardcore" games, No More Heroes, Madworld, Animals De La Murte, etc are immature titles. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

Discuss.

Head_of_games

I agree

The games like No More Heroes and Madworld are aimed for the children who still think that's cool

Where poop jokes are the funniest things you can think of

But there's a large section of buyers who want that.

I mean I want Madworld because the mini games look fun, I have to look past the kiddy nonsense of it all. Just like I did with No More Heroes. Well I also had to look past it being broken there. lol

Just like I did with No More Heroes. Well I also had to look past it being broken there. lol

Jaysonguy

No More Heroes isn't broken.

Just saying.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Just like I did with No More Heroes. Well I also had to look past it being broken there. lol

VGobbsesser

No More Heroes isn't broken.

Just saying.

Please stop covering for it

The controls do not respond the way they're intended to

We've been over this, I have standards and others don't. If anyone else thinks broken is good that's fine, if you want to join that group that's fine too but stop trying to pretend that not all controls working 100% of the time is fine because it's not.

I'm speaking for the people who have standards

Man, you don't know how much of a fan I'm becoming of yours... :PMadmangamer364

That's great, I love fans! :P

[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Just like I did with No More Heroes. Well I also had to look past it being broken there. lol

Jaysonguy

No More Heroes isn't broken.

Just saying.

Please stop covering for it

The controls do not respond the way they're intended to

We've been over this, I have standards and others don't. If anyone else thinks broken is good that's fine, if you want to join that group that's fine too but stop trying to pretend that not all controls working 100% of the time is fine because it's not.

I'm speaking for the people who have standards

The controls don't prevent you from playing the game.At all.The most one could say is that the controls are "imprecise," but not "broken."

And I don't appreciate your patronizing tone.

The controls don't prevent you from playing the game.At all.The most one could say is that the controls are "imprecise," but not "broken."

And I don't appreciate your patronizing tone.

VGobbsesser

Just curious...what's your definition of "broken"? Because, to me, if something doesn't work the way it's supposed to, it's broken.

Say your computer's fan stopped working. The computer will still run, but part of it is broken, no?

The difference between a mature game like say, Gears of War, and a mature game like No More Heroes or Madworld is that the latter group is self-aware that they have a childish take on the violence, where Gears of War (sorry Gears of War fans, just using it as an example) has a childish take on violence in order to look genuinely cool. In an ironic twist this in turn makes the latter group more cool. In a contest between big burly men with chainsaw weapons, the one which doesn't take itself serious is the victor.

As for actual thought provoking games.. there aren't many. I'd name Persona 3, Metal Gear Solid.. maybe Fire Emblem. Video games aren't quite a good medium for thought provoking story lines, yet.

[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]

The controls don't prevent you from playing the game.At all.The most one could say is that the controls are "imprecise," but not "broken."

And I don't appreciate your patronizing tone.

bob_newman

Just curious...what's your definition of "broken"? Because, to me, if something doesn't work the way it's supposed to, it's broken.

Say your computer's fan stopped working. The computer will still run, but part of it is broken, no?

When it prevents a game from being played.And that isn't the case with No More Heroes.The controls are "imprecise" at worst,but not outright broken.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]

No More Heroes isn't broken.

Just saying.

VGobbsesser

Please stop covering for it

The controls do not respond the way they're intended to

We've been over this, I have standards and others don't. If anyone else thinks broken is good that's fine, if you want to join that group that's fine too but stop trying to pretend that not all controls working 100% of the time is fine because it's not.

I'm speaking for the people who have standards

The controls don't prevent you from playing the game.At all.The most one could say is that the controls are "imprecise," but not "broken."

And I don't appreciate your patronizing tone.

I'm not trying to be patronizing and if you feel that way I'm sorry because it was not intended.

I'm making it 100% clear that I will not overlook a flaw in a game. There are certain parts of a game where I will not tolerate mistakes, controls are one of them.

Ever since the Wii's development process was simplified with motions there is no excuse for poorly executed controls

[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Please stop covering for it

The controls do not respond the way they're intended to

We've been over this, I have standards and others don't. If anyone else thinks broken is good that's fine, if you want to join that group that's fine too but stop trying to pretend that not all controls working 100% of the time is fine because it's not.

I'm speaking for the people who have standards

Jaysonguy

The controls don't prevent you from playing the game.At all.The most one could say is that the controls are "imprecise," but not "broken."

And I don't appreciate your patronizing tone.

I'm not trying to be patronizing and if you feel that way I'm sorry because it was not intended.

I'm making it 100% clear that I will not overlook a flaw in a game. There are certain parts of a game where I will not tolerate mistakes, controls are one of them.

Ever since the Wii's development process was simplified with motions there is no excuse for poorly executed controls

[QUOTE="bob_newman"][QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]

The controls don't prevent you from playing the game.At all.The most one could say is that the controls are "imprecise," but not "broken."

And I don't appreciate your patronizing tone.

VGobbsesser

Just curious...what's your definition of "broken"? Because, to me, if something doesn't work the way it's supposed to, it's broken.

Say your computer's fan stopped working. The computer will still run, but part of it is broken, no?

When it prevents a game from being played.And that isn't the case with No More Heroes.The controls are "imprecise" at worst,but not outright broken.

I'm not trying to be patronizing and if you feel that way I'm sorry because it was not intended.

I'm making it 100% clear that I will not overlook a flaw in a game. There are certain parts of a game where I will not tolerate mistakes, controls are one of them.

Ever since the Wii's development process was simplified with motions there is no excuse for poorly executed controls

Jaysonguy

The controls aren't as bad to the extent you are claiming they are to be.Only the inverse of an attack will work as well as the normal command is,which for all we know,was intended for left-handed played.I've tested it,and the controls will not respond when I move up when the arrow says "left." And considering the very nature of the quick-time event and the game's combat system,it's impossible to do an unintended attack.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]

The controls don't prevent you from playing the game.At all.The most one could say is that the controls are "imprecise," but not "broken."

And I don't appreciate your patronizing tone.

DaLegendKilla92

I'm not trying to be patronizing and if you feel that way I'm sorry because it was not intended.

I'm making it 100% clear that I will not overlook a flaw in a game. There are certain parts of a game where I will not tolerate mistakes, controls are one of them.

Ever since the Wii's development process was simplified with motions there is no excuse for poorly executed controls

It's not that they sometimes/never worked it's that they always worked

When you fight a guy and the arrows come on the screen you have one point left and one point right. Well just take the controller and flick one up and the other one down and the move will come off easy as pie (I like blueberry)

Why even have that part of the game if a waggle will do everything you need?

So are you suggesting that something that does not work the way it was intended to work is not broken? Is this a definition that you have attributed to video games only, or do you believe that this definition works on all fronts? Like, for instance, the fan not working in the computer. I disagree with Jason that the game is broken, but part of the game is broken. Just because it's still playable, does not mean a part of the whole is not broken.bob_newman

If a fan is broken,it won't work,period.In No More Heroes,an attack will work if do the prompted command,and the inverse,which isn't "broken" in the same sense.And for all we know,the inverse working was intended.It isn't just black and white.

If you're in need of a mature game, get World of Goo.:DTheSmitto

[QUOTE="bob_newman"] So are you suggesting that something that does not work the way it was intended to work is not broken? Is this a definition that you have attributed to video games only, or do you believe that this definition works on all fronts? Like, for instance, the fan not working in the computer. I disagree with Jason that the game is broken, but part of the game is broken. Just because it's still playable, does not mean a part of the whole is not broken.VGobbsesser

If a fan is broken,it won't work,period.In No More Heroes,an attack will work if do the prompted command,and the inverse,which isn't "broken" in the same sense.And for all we know,the inverse working was intended.It isn't just black and white.

[QUOTE="DaLegendKilla92"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

I'm not trying to be patronizing and if you feel that way I'm sorry because it was not intended.

I'm making it 100% clear that I will not overlook a flaw in a game. There are certain parts of a game where I will not tolerate mistakes, controls are one of them.

Ever since the Wii's development process was simplified with motions there is no excuse for poorly executed controls

Jaysonguy

It's not that they sometimes/never worked it's that they always worked

When you fight a guy and the arrows come on the screen you have one point left and one point right. Well just take the controller and flick one up and the other one down and the move will come off easy as pie (I like blueberry)

Why even have that part of the game if a waggle will do everything you need?

This is getting ridiculous. People used "mature games" as some kind of buzz word to mean "games that I like". Stop complaining about the titles on the Wii do you really have nothing better to do with your time?

When did a game being dubbed "mature" have an impact on if it was fun to play or not?

Almost anything can and CAN'T be considered a mature game it's all very relative.

More on topic companies do the opposite because just by reading this thread you can see that people really have no idea what they want and each person wants something completely different. Yes the Wii needs to expand its gaming library and it's a work in progress, so far this year looks quite promising. Stop whining and wait a couple months.

For a general idea, go out and do a poll at your local mall. Ask if someone would rather play madworld or Mario. I bet that the majority of the teens would say Madworld and the majority of adults would say Mario. Also, I don't really care if they're mature either. I can have just as much fun with immature games as mature ones. However, It's gotten annoying how people refer to such games as mature.Head_of_games

Oh so you're saying the immature teens would rather play an immature game like MadWorld and the mature, grown-up adults would rather play Mario?

Yeah I would agree with that.

I don't have to go to my local mall to tell you almost all teens are immature.

Oh so you're saying the immature teens would rather play an immature game like MadWorld and the mature, grown-up adults would rather play Mario?

AlexSays

I don't see how MadWorld is immature.

[QUOTE="AlexSays"]

Oh so you're saying the immature teens would rather play an immature game like MadWorld and the mature, grown-up adults would rather play Mario?

VGobbsesser

I don't see how MadWorld is immature.

[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"][QUOTE="AlexSays"]

Oh so you're saying the immature teens would rather play an immature game like MadWorld and the mature, grown-up adults would rather play Mario?

bob_newman

I don't see how MadWorld is immature.

I never said it was mature,either.:wink: And a mature person could fully well enjoy a game like MadWorld while still acknowledging such behavior wouldn't be acceptable in real life.

[QUOTE="VGobbsesser"][QUOTE="Head_of_games"]

Though they are no doubt enjoyable "hardcore" games, No More Heroes, Madworld, Animals De La Murte, etc are immature titles. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

SSBFan12

How so?Because I found No More Heroes' satirical tone,its dare to be unique,its successful social experiment,and its stab on the issue of "video games corrupt the youth/video games cause violence" to be quite mature.

Whats all this crap about maturity. The level of violence does not define the 'maturity' of a game.

As we all know, the Wiis library is full of immature shovelware such as the Petz games. We don't like this of course, and some devs take notice and decide to attempt a mature "hardcore" game. Now though many are succeeding on the "hardcore" front, many of them (in my opinion) failing miserably at making the games mature. Instead of making games with deep imaginative thoughts and realistic attributes, they give us games that though no doubt fun are the things a bunch of rebellious college kids would play. Do you really consider endless gore, cursing every other word, "Eye Candy", etc to be something that an actually mature and responsible individual would desire? Though they are no doubt enjoyable "hardcore" games, No More Heroes, Madworld, Animals De La Murte, etc are immature titles. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

Discuss.

[QUOTE="bob_newman"][QUOTE="VGobbsesser"]

I don't see how MadWorld is immature.

VGobbsesser

I never said it was mature,either.:wink: And a mature person could fully well enjoy a game like MadWorld while still acknowledging such behavior wouldn't be acceptable in real life.

Yeah, I disagree with Alex's opinion that the game itself is immature, but it does appeal more to an immature audience.bob_newman

[QUOTE="bob_newman"]Yeah, I disagree with Alex's opinion that the game itself is immature, but it does appeal more to an immature audience.AlexSays

Saying an inanimate object is immature is wrong.bob_newman

And go look up the definition, chief. The word immature can be used to describe inanimate objects, just not in the context I used.

As for the word hardcore, that is a make-believe word with no actual definition where as immature is an actual word that be used to describe a video game - not in the context I used - so that was not a good comparison.

[QUOTE="AlexSays"][QUOTE="bob_newman"]Yeah, I disagree with Alex's opinion that the game itself is immature, but it does appeal more to an immature audience.bob_newman

[QUOTE="bob_newman"]Saying an inanimate object is immature is wrong.AlexSays

And go look up the definition, chief. The word immature can be used to describe inanimate objects, just not in the context I used.

As for the word hardcore, that is a make-believe word with no actual definition where as immature is an actual word that be used to describe a video game - not in the context I used - so that was not a good comparison.

That was exactly my point, you were using the word "immature" improperly, just like people use the word "hardcore" improperly. That's why I made the connection between the two.

I realize that one can apply the word "immature" to a video game, but it would have nothing to do with the subject matter in the game.

Ugh. And now we're going to debate for ages about the definition of mature. How is that even helpful to discussion? "Mature" is such an open-textured term; we know what it means but everyone can disagree about whether it applies in a specific case. In fact, maybe we can even all agree that it's a good thing, and yet disagree about whether the specific thing we've each applied it to is a good thing.

Unless you want to end up in an endless debate over definitions, which isn't really all that interesting I'm sorry to admit, it's better to use less ambiguous words to better get at your meaning rather than such wishy-washy ones. It also seems to get people's goat when you call the games they enjoy immature, because it seems to imply that they are too. This topic isn't going anywhere good until someone reposes the question.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'Lewis Carroll

And now we're going to debate for ages about the definition of mature. How is that even helpful to discussion?clicketyclick

Why is it that when trying to give us a mature game, companies do the opposite?Head_of_games

Debating about the definition of mature isn't going to get anywhere and be of any relevance to the intention and intended direction of the TC.clicketyclick

So until the TC explains himself, there's nothing to talk about...

Well then... how's Canada nowadays? (Bob you can answer this one too)

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"]And now we're going to debate for ages about the definition of mature. How is that even helpful to discussion?AlexSays

Why is it that when trying to give us a mature game, companies do the opposite?Head_of_games