Why Metroid Prime 3 should have online

[QUOTE="Optusnet"]

Some of you still think the SP would be ruined or would suddenly be 'worse' if online was in. This wouldn't be the case at all. But a few extra months of development could add years of lifespan to the game. Again, Retro could've easily got online staff on board to work on the online WHILE the SP was in the works. Why do you think Retro would SHIFT attention from the SP to MP?

Also, Prime 2 multiplayer wasn't great for these reasons:
- It lacked so many options/modes and it didn't have bots
- It was splitscreen
- The controls were made for a single player experience.

Prime 3 and Wii now have the technology to scrap all that and make a fleshed out, long-lasting, online experience.

kokopelli76

You keep talking about how easy it is to simply get more people on to program certain things.  Care to share your personal experience managing teams of software development that leads you to believe this?  Because hiring people (the right people), getting them to work as a team, and getting projects done on time isn't quite as easy as you make it out to be.

You also keep arguing that online multi wouldn't affect the single player at all, but your last post you clearly state  "- The controls were made for a single player experience."  Goccha.  So there are things that in the making of the game make it more friendly to single player.  Like controls for example.  And when you try and use those controls in multi it doesn't work?  Guess what, the same is true the other way.  Tune the controls for multi, and the single plaver won't work as well as it does.  

If you (and everyone else who keeps yelling how they won't buy it without MP online) want the game you keep clamoring for, buy it on the other systems it's already out for.  It just has a different name, and not Samus as the main character.  But don't say that a franchise that has always been about something else should be changed because you want it to be a different game. 

The only point you made was that I don't personally know about magaing software development. But given the spike in sales from the inclusion of online play, it would be a worthy investment.

When I said "the controls were made for SP" I was referring strictyl to MP2. Such an unconventional, slightly clunkier control scheme isn't used for multiplayer sure. But if you bothered to read my inital post, you'd know I'd say how perfect the controls on MP3 ARE for online play - being that they have the speed, turning and customizable configeration like a PC mouse. So how can multiplayer ruin the single player experience when YOU configure it to your liking for either mode? Gotcha, or Goccha as you said it.

And what you said about "just buy a differenct game on a different system that has online" is a pretty arrogant comment. I'm not saying multiplayer will make it MP different - I'm saying it'll make MP BETTER! That's the truth. If MP3 includes online, and does it right, it would be a blue print to all 3rd party devs who want to incorporate shooters with online play. 

You make me sound like i'm hating the game if it doesn't have online, and that it's only ME and few other people who wants MP3 to be 'different' (*cough*better*cough). Sometimes genres or a series have to stray away from the regular, to be new and exciting. Besides, fans are going to complain about something in the main campaign anyway whether online is in or not - nintendo fanboys are always like that, and it drives me up the wall! 

The only point you made was that I don't personally know about magaing software development. But given the spike in sales from the inclusion of online play, it would be a worthy investment.

When I said "the controls were made for SP" I was referring strictyl to MP2. Such an unconventional, slightly clunkier control scheme isn't used for multiplayer sure. But if you bothered to read my inital post, you'd know I'd say how perfect the controls on MP3 ARE for online play - being that they have the speed, turning and customizable configeration like a PC mouse. So how can multiplayer ruin the single player experience when YOU configure it to your liking for either mode? Gotcha, or Goccha as you said it.

And what you said about "just buy a differenct game on a different system that has online" is a pretty arrogant comment. I'm not saying multiplayer will make it MP different - I'm saying it'll make MP BETTER! That's the truth. If MP3 includes online, and does it right, it would be a blue print to all 3rd party devs who want to incorporate shooters with online play.

You make me sound like i'm hating the game if it doesn't have online, and that it's only ME and few other people who wants MP3 to be 'different' (*cough*better*cough). Sometimes genres or a series have to stray away from the regular, to be new and exciting. Besides, fans are going to complain about something in the main campaign anyway whether online is in or not - nintendo fanboys are always like that, and it drives me up the wall!

Optusnet

You don't know how the controls for MP3 work either, as neither you, nor I, nor many others have played the game yet.  People played previous builds, but to extrapolate that to say that now the controls are perfect for online multiplayer is kind of stretching the facts a little.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you've made yours clear on multiple occasions.  The problem is you think that you are making a logical argument why others should change their opinion and adopt yours.   You insist that for various reasons there would be no effect on the single player, and assume that development resources are easy to come by.  You have no facts to support these arguments.  If they could make an online multiplayer mode without disturbing the single player I could care less.  But if they make another MPH it will be a total waste, online multiplayer or not (yes I know MPH wasn't Retro).

What I said about buying a different game on a different system isn't arrogant, it's the truth.  You want online multiplayer frag fests, it exists.  It's done really, really well too.  You can get what you want right now.  If you want a sports car you don't complain about mini-van makers not making the minivan faster, more aerodynamic and more like a sports car.  You go out and buy the sports car.  But if you want to haul kids or a bunch of gear around you don't buy the sports car.  Sometimes you have to weigh priorities.  If you bought a Wii expecting super online FPS action, you didn't do your homework.  Other systems are better at that.

You don't know how the controls for MP3 work either, as neither you, nor I, nor many others have played the game yet. People played previous builds, but to extrapolate that to say that now the controls are perfect for online multiplayer is kind of stretching the facts a little.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you've made yours clear on multiple occasions. The problem is you think that you are making a logical argument why others should change their opinion and adopt yours. You insist that for various reasons there would be no effect on the single player, and assume that development resources are easy to come by. You have no facts to support these arguments. If they could make an online multiplayer mode without disturbing the single player I could care less. But if they make another MPH it will be a total waste, online multiplayer or not (yes I know MPH wasn't Retro).

What I said about buying a different game on a different system isn't arrogant, it's the truth. You want online multiplayer frag fests, it exists. It's done really, really well too. You can get what you want right now. If you want a sports car you don't complain about mini-van makers not making the minivan faster, more aerodynamic and more like a sports car. You go out and buy the sports car. But if you want to haul kids or a bunch of gear around you don't buy the sports car. Sometimes you have to weigh priorities. If you bought a Wii expecting super online FPS action, you didn't do your homework. Other systems are better at that.

kokopelli76

Couldn't you just find another series that's single player if you're going to make such a fit about this? Let's try to look at this from a business point of view. If they put multiplayer into MP3, it's going to boost up sales so long as they don't do one big ****-up with the single player. You're talking as though any multiplayer will ruin the game even though you don't know any more than we do.

So instead of just complaining to people who express opinions different from yours, why don't you just take a breather and wait for the game to release instead of arguing with people who may want online? Which by the way, I think is a good idea.

[QUOTE="kokopelli76"]

You don't know how the controls for MP3 work either, as neither you, nor I, nor many others have played the game yet. People played previous builds, but to extrapolate that to say that now the controls are perfect for online multiplayer is kind of stretching the facts a little.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you've made yours clear on multiple occasions. The problem is you think that you are making a logical argument why others should change their opinion and adopt yours. You insist that for various reasons there would be no effect on the single player, and assume that development resources are easy to come by. You have no facts to support these arguments. If they could make an online multiplayer mode without disturbing the single player I could care less. But if they make another MPH it will be a total waste, online multiplayer or not (yes I know MPH wasn't Retro).

What I said about buying a different game on a different system isn't arrogant, it's the truth. You want online multiplayer frag fests, it exists. It's done really, really well too. You can get what you want right now. If you want a sports car you don't complain about mini-van makers not making the minivan faster, more aerodynamic and more like a sports car. You go out and buy the sports car. But if you want to haul kids or a bunch of gear around you don't buy the sports car. Sometimes you have to weigh priorities. If you bought a Wii expecting super online FPS action, you didn't do your homework. Other systems are better at that.

ghostadv

Couldn't you just find another series that's single player if you're going to make such a fit about this? Let's try to look at this from a business point of view. If they put multiplayer into MP3, it's going to boost up sales so long as they don't do one big ****-up with the single player. You're talking as though any multiplayer will ruin the game even though you don't know any more than we do.

So instead of just complaining to people who express opinions different from yours, why don't you just take a breather and wait for the game to release instead of arguing with people who may want online? Which by the way, I think is a good idea.

online is a good idea, but its inclusion/ or lack thereof isnt going to influence my decision of buying the game, and those that are letting it influence their decision are being pretty superficial.

[QUOTE="Optusnet"]

The only point you made was that I don't personally know about magaing software development. But given the spike in sales from the inclusion of online play, it would be a worthy investment.

When I said "the controls were made for SP" I was referring strictyl to MP2. Such an unconventional, slightly clunkier control scheme isn't used for multiplayer sure. But if you bothered to read my inital post, you'd know I'd say how perfect the controls on MP3 ARE for online play - being that they have the speed, turning and customizable configeration like a PC mouse. So how can multiplayer ruin the single player experience when YOU configure it to your liking for either mode? Gotcha, or Goccha as you said it.

And what you said about "just buy a differenct game on a different system that has online" is a pretty arrogant comment. I'm not saying multiplayer will make it MP different - I'm saying it'll make MP BETTER! That's the truth. If MP3 includes online, and does it right, it would be a blue print to all 3rd party devs who want to incorporate shooters with online play.

You make me sound like i'm hating the game if it doesn't have online, and that it's only ME and few other people who wants MP3 to be 'different' (*cough*better*cough). Sometimes genres or a series have to stray away from the regular, to be new and exciting. Besides, fans are going to complain about something in the main campaign anyway whether online is in or not - nintendo fanboys are always like that, and it drives me up the wall!

kokopelli76

You don't know how the controls for MP3 work either, as neither you, nor I, nor many others have played the game yet.  People played previous builds, but to extrapolate that to say that now the controls are perfect for online multiplayer is kind of stretching the facts a little.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you've made yours clear on multiple occasions.  The problem is you think that you are making a logical argument why others should change their opinion and adopt yours.   You insist that for various reasons there would be no effect on the single player, and assume that development resources are easy to come by.  You have no facts to support these arguments.  If they could make an online multiplayer mode without disturbing the single player I could care less.  But if they make another MPH it will be a total waste, online multiplayer or not (yes I know MPH wasn't Retro).

What I said about buying a different game on a different system isn't arrogant, it's the truth.  You want online multiplayer frag fests, it exists.  It's done really, really well too.  You can get what you want right now.  If you want a sports car you don't complain about mini-van makers not making the minivan faster, more aerodynamic and more like a sports car.  You go out and buy the sports car.  But if you want to haul kids or a bunch of gear around you don't buy the sports car.  Sometimes you have to weigh priorities.  If you bought a Wii expecting super online FPS action, you didn't do your homework.  Other systems are better at that.

Going by Reggie and IGN and product testers, the game handles like a mouse, and is therefore faster than analog control. This is a fact.

This whole thing sparked not by people like you, but by people who said "DO NOT include online in MP3. It'll ruin what Metroid is all about!" Like I said, Retro ain't dumb - they know what Metroid is all about. But these fans act as if they know the ins-and-outs of development and have played the game themselves. You also don't have facts the back up how multiplayer could ruin the single player or vice versa. But I don't want to get into 'what's fact, what's fiction' debate.

Maybe I should've rephrased the way I said some things, but still get the main point across. Most of my points are based on logic, and because of Nintendo's strive for quality and demand, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem to get a seperate team to work on online play. I know, I know - the fact that I'm not the lead programmer of Retro or the president of Nintendo or king of whatever makes my opinion be regarded or disregarded like too many blind statements on these boards. But I do think these things through, and use logical arguments.

But I'm a little confused on your "if you want your multiplayer frag fest, there are others out there!" Couldn't I flip that around and say "Well, why bother with Metroid Prime in the first place? There's games like Half Life that have an exploration and pacing element to them." I'll say one last time: I think Metroid Prime 3 will benefit from online not because it's out to be the beter than any other online game out there. BUT on its own merits and as it's own package, online would make the game feel beefier and long lasting. You're not the Creative director of Retro either, so you can't deny that with 'facts'.  

Feel free to prove me wrong with 'logic'. Because if you're requiring facts and hard evidence on these sorts of boards or discussion, you're going to have a dry creek. 

I don't think anyone needs that much convincing.. :roll:

If online was added, that would be great!

But if it's not included, I'm not gonna whine or anything since it really isn't a big deal (IMO).

[QUOTE="kokopelli76"][QUOTE="Optusnet"]

Some of you still think the SP would be ruined or would suddenly be 'worse' if online was in. This wouldn't be the case at all. But a few extra months of development could add years of lifespan to the game. Again, Retro could've easily got online staff on board to work on the online WHILE the SP was in the works. Why do you think Retro would SHIFT attention from the SP to MP?

Also, Prime 2 multiplayer wasn't great for these reasons:
- It lacked so many options/modes and it didn't have bots
- It was splitscreen
- The controls were made for a single player experience.

Prime 3 and Wii now have the technology to scrap all that and make a fleshed out, long-lasting, online experience.

Optusnet

You keep talking about how easy it is to simply get more people on to program certain things.  Care to share your personal experience managing teams of software development that leads you to believe this?  Because hiring people (the right people), getting them to work as a team, and getting projects done on time isn't quite as easy as you make it out to be.

You also keep arguing that online multi wouldn't affect the single player at all, but your last post you clearly state  "- The controls were made for a single player experience."  Goccha.  So there are things that in the making of the game make it more friendly to single player.  Like controls for example.  And when you try and use those controls in multi it doesn't work?  Guess what, the same is true the other way.  Tune the controls for multi, and the single plaver won't work as well as it does.  

If you (and everyone else who keeps yelling how they won't buy it without MP online) want the game you keep clamoring for, buy it on the other systems it's already out for.  It just has a different name, and not Samus as the main character.  But don't say that a franchise that has always been about something else should be changed because you want it to be a different game. 

The only point you made was that I don't personally know about magaing software development. But given the spike in sales from the inclusion of online play, it would be a worthy investment.

When I said "the controls were made for SP" I was referring strictyl to MP2. Such an unconventional, slightly clunkier control scheme isn't used for multiplayer sure. But if you bothered to read my inital post, you'd know I'd say how perfect the controls on MP3 ARE for online play - being that they have the speed, turning and customizable configeration like a PC mouse. So how can multiplayer ruin the single player experience when YOU configure it to your liking for either mode? Gotcha, or Goccha as you said it.

And what you said about "just buy a differenct game on a different system that has online" is a pretty arrogant comment. I'm not saying multiplayer will make it MP different - I'm saying it'll make MP BETTER! That's the truth. If MP3 includes online, and does it right, it would be a blue print to all 3rd party devs who want to incorporate shooters with online play. 

You make me sound like i'm hating the game if it doesn't have online, and that it's only ME and few other people who wants MP3 to be 'different' (*cough*better*cough). Sometimes genres or a series have to stray away from the regular, to be new and exciting. Besides, fans are going to complain about something in the main campaign anyway whether online is in or not - nintendo fanboys are always like that, and it drives me up the wall! 

Nintendo fanboys are like that.  I agree that some series could use a facelift here and there for a new experience, hell, I loved Windwaker though many didn't.

Some people can't make up their minds.  Go over to the Halo 3 forum, all they do over there is graphic gripe because the game is not much cleaner than Halo 2 (despite beta stages blah blah), and that it really is true to Halo 1 and 2.  Its not different at all.

When it comes to finishing off a series, it might be better to just not mess with a working formula.

However, here's my gripe with all your comments.

1.)Metroid Prime 2 multiplayer licked.  Metroid Prime Hunters had a great, yes, great multiplayer that worked well.

2.)Should online be in there?  Sure (for Nintendo's benefits not mine).  Is it necessary, well, I'm still going to buy it because frankily I really dont' care about online.

3.)Optusnet, online would be beneficial for Nintendo and would make MP3 a contender in the FPS department, well, larger than it is now.  Though I disagree, for a good multiplayer, it would need a dedicated team for a good portion of time.  Its not as easy as it sounds.  Have you ever watched a Halo 3 development video, those guys are multiplayer focused and have been working on it for awhile (though I think Halo's multi is overrated).

4.)Controls are not an issue.  MP2 controls worked fine.

5.)Although the comment is arrogant kokopelli, your right in that there are a million other FPS out there that have online.

If anyone wants a good multiplayer go to the PC or even a 360.  You want one of the most immersive FPA/FPS around, go with Metroid.  Its that cut and dry and to be honest I'm getting sick of these topics.