Wii U a great console, with or without sales

I agree in the sense that even if it just manages to release the games currently announced and then completely die, I'd still consider it worth the price. The line up is extremely strong IMHO and is taking all my attention away from PS4 and Xbox One as well as taking most of my attention away from PS3 at the moment.

I agree in the sense that even if it just manages to release the games currently announced and then completely die, I'd still consider it worth the price. The line up is extremely strong IMHO and is taking all my attention away from PS4 and Xbox One as well as taking most of my attention away from PS3 at the moment.

Pikminmaniac

Just curious, but I wonder how much more differently you would be feeling about the Wii U's lineup if Pikmin 3 wasn't recently released? :P

There were features lacking on the Wii that were troublesome, but now that we have discovered they will also be lacking on the Wii U, it is inexcusable.

 

I do not know if Nintendo dislikes persist online accounts or just isn't aware of the benefit of being able to pull your account up on other hardware. Being able to utilize that content anywhere is something even inexperienced gamers recognize.

 

There are plenty of steps to ensure that gamers can only use that account on one system at a time. Nintendo will not lose revenue by having an account system. 

 

Nintendo needs to understand that they need to adapt to their surroundings better. 

 

I wish we had more incite on Nintendo's development group that is setting up online infrastructure. I want to know how much money they really are putting into these sort of things. It seems like they don't care much for it and allocate small amount of resources.

thedude-

I don't disagree with much, if any, of what you're saying, but I don't think Nintendo's stance on online accounts is anywhere near as significant as you seem to believe they are. If online is an issue at all, it would be that Nintendo's software is doing a poor job of showcasing its importance. Nintendo has Club Nintendo, so it's not like the company is totally against online accounts as personal or even family-related functions, and I still believe that the account issue for the Wii U can easily be addressed.

The problem is that the Wii U is suffering from much greater issues, so even if that was addressed, it would only be important to the relatively small amount of people that own a Wii U and use the online functionality regularly. I suspect that what you're speaking of is actually too small of an issue for Nintendo right now, given that they would only be addressing a very small group of people in their point of view. I'm not dismissing that it needs to be taken care of, as it still does, but Nintendo needs to prioritize more than ever right now, and building a respectably sized userbase is at the top of the list.

[QUOTE="dino7c"]anyone saying its great is kidding themselvesAvatar_Taxidous

Right.. 'cause people aren't entitled to their own opinion?

its not great yet, it has a few good games that aren't playable on 8 year old systems.  I don't buy that anyone really thinks its great

potential to be great is a different story

[QUOTE="Pikminmaniac"]

I agree in the sense that even if it just manages to release the games currently announced and then completely die, I'd still consider it worth the price. The line up is extremely strong IMHO and is taking all my attention away from PS4 and Xbox One as well as taking most of my attention away from PS3 at the moment.

Madmangamer364

Just curious, but I wonder how much more differently you would be feeling about the Wii U's lineup if Pikmin 3 wasn't recently released? :P

There were features lacking on the Wii that were troublesome, but now that we have discovered they will also be lacking on the Wii U, it is inexcusable.

 

I do not know if Nintendo dislikes persist online accounts or just isn't aware of the benefit of being able to pull your account up on other hardware. Being able to utilize that content anywhere is something even inexperienced gamers recognize.

 

There are plenty of steps to ensure that gamers can only use that account on one system at a time. Nintendo will not lose revenue by having an account system. 

 

Nintendo needs to understand that they need to adapt to their surroundings better. 

 

I wish we had more incite on Nintendo's development group that is setting up online infrastructure. I want to know how much money they really are putting into these sort of things. It seems like they don't care much for it and allocate small amount of resources.

thedude-

I don't disagree with much, if any, of what you're saying, but I don't think Nintendo's stance on online accounts is anywhere near as significant as you seem to believe they are. If online is an issue at all, it would be that Nintendo's software is doing a poor job of showcasing its importance. Nintendo has Club Nintendo, so it's not like the company is totally against online accounts as personal or even family-related functions, and I still believe that the account issue for the Wii U can easily be addressed.

The problem is that the Wii U is suffering from much greater issues, so even if that was addressed, it would only be important to the relatively small amount of people that own a Wii U and use the online functionality regularly. I suspect that what you're speaking of is actually too small of an issue for Nintendo right now, given that they would only be addressing a very small group of people in their point of view. I'm not dismissing that it needs to be taken care of, as it still does, but Nintendo needs to prioritize more than ever right now, and building a respectably sized userbase is at the top of the list.

The potential for better entertainment could be huge. Considering Nintendo has a strong console and hardware platform to work with, if they created more parity between these two devices. If I send a message to friends on 3DS, there could be a record of it on Wii U. What if I could play a VC on Wii U and then save the session and play the rest on the go with 3DS. These sort of features that we are seeing explode on other systems are only possible with a unified account. You are ignoring the importance of an overall account.

Nintendo has features that help replace the need for an account, but its just an inconvenient work around like transferring your Wii content to your Wii U. Its just building up more problems. Its not a small group of people, its just a small group on Nintendo systems now because other people are sick of being treated like a second hand gamer. So the potential for new audiences is there if Nintendo paid more attention to emerging gaming features.

I agree that if they do not have the skill to deal with it on top of the avalanche worth of issues already present then there is nothing we can do but wait. But that brings up the issue that Nintendo needs certain features to be present AT LAUNCH or it will always be a problem for a percentage of their audience. It just feels like they always are playing catch up. Besides that they are not one to change their stance on something so we may never get accounts.

It is one of those things that once you have that feature, its really archaic to see other systems without it.

Or maybe its just a feature you have not often used on other systems.

thedude-

My PS3 is logged on my PSN account as I type this, so there's that. :P

The potential for better entertainment could be huge. Considering Nintendo has a strong console and hardware platform to work with, if they created more parity between these two devices. If I send a message to friends on 3DS, there could be a record of it on Wii U. What if I could play a VC on Wii U and then save the session and play the rest on the go with 3DS. These sort of features that we are seeing explode on other systems are only possible with a unified account. You are ignoring the importance of an overall account.

Nintendo has features that help replace the need for an account, but its just an inconvenient work around like transferring your Wii content to your Wii U. Its just building up more problems. Its not a small group of people, its just a small group on Nintendo systems now because other people are sick of being treated like a second hand gamer. So the potential for new audiences is there if Nintendo paid more attention to emerging gaming features.

I agree that if they do not have the skill to deal with it on top of the avalanche worth of issues already present then there is nothing we can do but wait. But that brings up the issue that Nintendo needs certain features to be present AT LAUNCH or it will always be a problem for a percentage of their audience. It just feels like they always are playing catch up. Besides that they are not one to change their stance on something so we may never get accounts.

It is one of those things that once you have that feature, its really archaic to see other systems without it.

thedude-

I'm not ignoring the importance of an online account at all. I know that there are those who see the inconvenience of not having one to work with on the 3DS and/or Wii U systems and are in fear of the consequence that could come just because there isn't one. Let's not get overdramatic here, though. It's not as if the inclusion of a standarized online account is going to suddenly allow Wii U sales to skyrocket and become more appealing to the mass consumer. There are much, much larger issues Nintendo needs to address in order for the console to re-establish itself and become a viable long-term investment for them. Being able to take a VC game progress on the go or have an achievement/trophy-like system isn't going to become the Wii U's saving grace, meaning that the only people who would be currently impacted by this would be those who have already purchased a Wii U, in spite of it not offering these things in the first place.

I actually don't doubt that Nintendo has the ability to fix this sort of thing, to be honest with you, and I'm sure they've seen and heard enough backlash from Wii U owners that would like to see a change to their online system ASAP. That said, it's still anything but a life or death situation for the system or the company. In fact, given what the industry just went through with the Xbox One and its "online only" policies at first, you'd think people would be more careful about what they wish for when it comes to this very topic. I'm not saying Nintendo is handling this in the proper fashion, but again, I would suggest that we as a gaming community not try to make something like an online account bigger than it actually is.

Just my opinion, but even though I actually have an account on other platforms, I wouldn't be too upset if I had to deal with a console that didn't have one.

[QUOTE="thedude-"]

Or maybe its just a feature you have not often used on other systems.

Madmangamer364

My PS3 is logged on my PSN account as I type this, so there's that. :P

The potential for better entertainment could be huge. Considering Nintendo has a strong console and hardware platform to work with, if they created more parity between these two devices. If I send a message to friends on 3DS, there could be a record of it on Wii U. What if I could play a VC on Wii U and then save the session and play the rest on the go with 3DS. These sort of features that we are seeing explode on other systems are only possible with a unified account. You are ignoring the importance of an overall account.

Nintendo has features that help replace the need for an account, but its just an inconvenient work around like transferring your Wii content to your Wii U. Its just building up more problems. Its not a small group of people, its just a small group on Nintendo systems now because other people are sick of being treated like a second hand gamer. So the potential for new audiences is there if Nintendo paid more attention to emerging gaming features.

I agree that if they do not have the skill to deal with it on top of the avalanche worth of issues already present then there is nothing we can do but wait. But that brings up the issue that Nintendo needs certain features to be present AT LAUNCH or it will always be a problem for a percentage of their audience. It just feels like they always are playing catch up. Besides that they are not one to change their stance on something so we may never get accounts.

It is one of those things that once you have that feature, its really archaic to see other systems without it.

thedude-

I'm not ignoring the importance of an online account at all. I know that there are those who see the inconvenience of not having one to work with on the 3DS and/or Wii U systems and are in fear of the consequence that could come just because there isn't one. Let's not get overdramatic here, though. It's not as if the inclusion of a standarized online account is going to suddenly allow Wii U sales to skyrocket and become more appealing to the mass consumer. There are much, much larger issues Nintendo needs to address in order for the console to re-establish itself and become a viable long-term investment for them. Being able to take a VC game progress on the go or have an achievement/trophy-like system isn't going to become the Wii U's saving grace, meaning that the only people who would be currently impacted by this would be those who have already purchased a Wii U, in spite of it not offering these things in the first place.

I actually don't doubt that Nintendo has the ability to fix this sort of thing, to be honest with you, and I'm sure they've seen and heard enough backlash from Wii U owners that would like to see a change to their online system ASAP. That said, it's still anything but a life or death situation for the system or the company. In fact, given what the industry just went through with the Xbox One and its "online only" policies at first, you'd think people would be more careful about what they wish for when it comes to this very topic. I'm not saying Nintendo is handling this in the proper fashion, but again, I would suggest that we as a gaming community not try to make something like an online account bigger than it actually is.

Just my opinion, but even though I actually have an account on other platforms, I wouldn't be too upset if I had to deal with a console that didn't have one.

Ha but do you have another PS3 or a Vita? thedude-

Nope, but if it offers any additional insight of where I'm coming from, the PS3 I currently have is my second one since having a PSN account. I traded in my first system, which was a pre-owned 40 GB model to begin with, for a 160 GB slim model. Therefore, I obviously know that being able to have my account move from one system to another was of some importance. That being said, if it wasn't for me being unsure of the health of my system and wanting a little more memory and a new model to work with, even that wouldn't have been much of an issue for me.

Its not just a mere inconvenience. You do understand that more features are being built onto the overall account. Its going to be a phenomenon in the future where hardware becomes less and less necessary. If Nintendo doesn't strengthen this platform now, it will be another feature on the list of things they simply cannot do in comparison to the competition. Cloud games saves and immediate asset allocation are tied heavily to an account.

I never said that system accounts was the last hurdle for Wii U to get over this terrible slump. Its just another feature on a long list of missing things the Wii U should have. What WILL make Wii U sales skyrocket is the mentality to get many features like this on Wii U ASAP. See its a mentality that Nintendo has. They are so focused on their Japanese market that they ignore the demands of what gamers want worldwide. Considering gaming in japan is so radically different than Western markets and Nintendo is going to continue to be cemented in the past, we are only going to see a larger rift in what gamers want as opposed to what Nintendo releases. Its a logical fallacy to claim that this issue is not important because there are so many other problems. As a demanding consumer I want all these problems fixed and I know Nintendo has the power to deal with all of them this year if they were not such a closed platform company.

I am not emphasizing the importance of system profiles, I am emphasizing the problem of Nintendo ignoring any new gaming features that they themselves do not come up with. Nintendo's only saving grace these last 3,4 generations is that they come out with at least one piece of magical software every year that is a game you will play all generation and thats how they get away with all of this. Nintendo fans excuse Nintendo way too much and its becoming ridiculous now with so many mistakes being made on Wii U. thedude-

You seem to be pretty high on the future of online accounts. Honestly, the only thing I can really say as a response to it is "if you say so..." I can't really argue against what you're saying, as I just don't see it all as that important right now to dig up enough information for a potential rebuttal. All I've seen in recent years in regards to this entire subject are two platforms dominating much of the gen without online accounts at all in the DS and Wii, a major backlash against Microsoft for trying to forcefeed online-related policies to consumers, and from a more personal perspective, features like Youtube and Crunchyroll that require me to log into my account, even though I should be able to access those applications just by having internet access.

I can at least agree that the Wii U could use a number of things, including online accounts. This much I've been on the same page with you on from the very beginning. I just think the priorities of what Nintendo should focus on most needs to be changed. What I don't agree on, however, is the notion that Nintendo is fixated on the Japanese market at the moment to the point of ignoring the Western market. First off, have you SEEN the Wii U's sales and support in Japan? There's just as little enthusiasm for the system there as there is in the rest of the world, and for the most part, the NA and EU markets have gotten the better end of the stick to this point from Nintendo's efforts. I daresay the Wii U isn't Japanese-focused enough at this point in its life. Furthermore, I'm sure Japanese consumers would like to see these issues ironed out as much as the rest of the world does. It still doesn't change the fact that Nintendo has work to do and has to put in a plan to attract consumers the world over, not just east or west.

As someone that has been very critical about Nintendo's decision-making for years now, I'm not giving the company excuses for anything. That should be all-too-telling, as I don't have a Wii U or 3DS as we speak and little to no interest in purchasing either system for the time being. I agree that there are Nintendo enthusiasts out there that seem to give a pass for everything the company does, but there are just as many people out there that will criticize the company each and every time it doesn't blindly follow the rest of the industry, even as the rest of the industry suffers for its choices. It's because I can see both sides that I've decided to think for myself and can speak about Nintendo in a complimentary or critical manner when I see it as necessary.

Nintendo's true saving grace the past few generations was when it decided not to do that with the DS and Wii and re-established mass market attractiveness, while everyone else dealt with the consequences of HD game development. However, that oh-so-important attractiveness isn't to be found in the Wii U or how Nintendo has designed it, which is why it finds itself on that downhill slope that has plagued it ever since the 16-bit era. That's what I've been predicting would happen from the get-go, regardless of how closely Nintendo followed the competition this time around (which, in truth, is closer than they ever did with the Wii). I certainly don't see an online account or an even more Western-focused approach changing this, either.

[QUOTE="thedude-"] Ha but do you have another PS3 or a Vita? Madmangamer364

Nope, but if it offers any additional insight of where I'm coming from, the PS3 I currently have is my second one since having a PSN account. I traded in my first system, which was a pre-owned 40 GB model to begin with, for a 160 GB slim model. Therefore, I obviously know that being able to have my account move from one system to another was of some importance. That being said, if it wasn't for me being unsure of the health of my system and wanting a little more memory and a new model to work with, even that wouldn't have been much of an issue for me.

Its not just a mere inconvenience. You do understand that more features are being built onto the overall account. Its going to be a phenomenon in the future where hardware becomes less and less necessary. If Nintendo doesn't strengthen this platform now, it will be another feature on the list of things they simply cannot do in comparison to the competition. Cloud games saves and immediate asset allocation are tied heavily to an account.

I never said that system accounts was the last hurdle for Wii U to get over this terrible slump. Its just another feature on a long list of missing things the Wii U should have. What WILL make Wii U sales skyrocket is the mentality to get many features like this on Wii U ASAP. See its a mentality that Nintendo has. They are so focused on their Japanese market that they ignore the demands of what gamers want worldwide. Considering gaming in japan is so radically different than Western markets and Nintendo is going to continue to be cemented in the past, we are only going to see a larger rift in what gamers want as opposed to what Nintendo releases. Its a logical fallacy to claim that this issue is not important because there are so many other problems. As a demanding consumer I want all these problems fixed and I know Nintendo has the power to deal with all of them this year if they were not such a closed platform company.

I am not emphasizing the importance of system profiles, I am emphasizing the problem of Nintendo ignoring any new gaming features that they themselves do not come up with. Nintendo's only saving grace these last 3,4 generations is that they come out with at least one piece of magical software every year that is a game you will play all generation and thats how they get away with all of this. Nintendo fans excuse Nintendo way too much and its becoming ridiculous now with so many mistakes being made on Wii U. thedude-

You seem to be pretty high on the future of online accounts. Honestly, the only thing I can really say as a response to it is "if you say so..." I can't really argue against what you're saying, as I just don't see it all as that important right now to dig up enough information for a potential rebuttal. All I've seen in recent years in regards to this entire subject are two platforms dominating much of the gen without online accounts at all in the DS and Wii, a major backlash against Microsoft for trying to forcefeed online-related policies to consumers, and from a more personal perspective, features like Youtube and Crunchyroll that require me to log into my account, even though I should be able to access those applications just by having internet access.

I can at least agree that the Wii U could use a number of things, including online accounts. This much I've been on the same page with you on from the very beginning. I just think the priorities of what Nintendo should focus on most needs to be changed. What I don't agree on, however, is the notion that Nintendo is fixated on the Japanese market at the moment to the point of ignoring the Western market. First off, have you SEEN the Wii U's sales and support in Japan? There's just as little enthusiasm for the system there as there is in the rest of the world, and for the most part, the NA and EU markets have gotten the better end of the stick to this point from Nintendo's efforts. I daresay the Wii U isn't Japanese-focused enough at this point in its life. Furthermore, I'm sure Japanese consumers would like to see these issues ironed out as much as the rest of the world does. It still doesn't change the fact that Nintendo has work to do and has to put in a plan to attract consumers the world over, not just east or west.

As someone that has been very critical about Nintendo's decision-making for years now, I'm not giving the company excuses for anything. That should be all-too-telling, as I don't have a Wii U or 3DS as we speak and little to no interest in purchasing either system for the time being. I agree that there are Nintendo enthusiasts out there that seem to give a pass for everything the company does, but there are just as many people out there that will criticize the company each and every time it doesn't blindly follow the rest of the industry, even as the rest of the industry suffers for its choices. It's because I can see both sides that I've decided to think for myself and can speak about Nintendo in a complimentary or critical manner when I see it as necessary.

Nintendo's true saving grace the past few generations was when it decided not to do that with the DS and Wii and re-established mass market attractiveness, while everyone else dealt with the consequences of HD game development. However, that oh-so-important attractiveness isn't to be found in the Wii U or how Nintendo has designed it, which is why it finds itself on that downhill slope that has plagued it ever since the 16-bit era. That's what I've been predicting would happen from the get-go, regardless of how closely Nintendo followed the competition this time around (which, in truth, is closer than they ever did with the Wii). I certainly don't see an online account or an even more Western-focused approach changing this, either.

I'm not saying online accounts are a make or break feature. Nintendo is constantly ignoring these features and they add up! It becomes inexcusable to the point that it makes me reconsider my purchases, even if I still love the games they release. I want these good first party games paired with system features that are fully developed. I dont want Nintendo to be a clone with the other systems but regardless their games are what set them apart; unfortunately lack of third party and clunky online interfaces set them apart from the competition now as well. Neutral features like online fidelity cannot be blindly followed, they are just the sort of tools that are similar regardless of the system if they are done correctly.

I agree that Nintendo sold the most hardware last generation because they appealed to the unattended mass market. I do not agree with you at all on why Wii U is struggling though. The Wii did so well because it appealed the to an ignored market with simplicity, it had good first party games that sometimes really showcased the hook the system had (motion controls with games like Wii Sports and LoZ: SS) and they had a clear message that connected with consumers quickly. But Nintendo lost that momentum at the end of last generation with Wii because of the apparent lack of features caught up to them. They marketed the Wii U terribly, it had way less games to play than the Wii in the same time period, it had many bugs and loading issues at launch, the name is uninventive and confusing, it still doesn't have any software that completely showcases the GamePad, its about as powerful as last generation consoles but still falls behind in many online features, and the list goes on. Wii U is not doing bad because it followed the competition too closely. Its bad for all those reasons I listed which has nothing to do with similarities to the competition, not to mention those similarities are drawn to the last generation HD consoles not the upcoming ones.

Its the forerunner for deeper cloud integration and functions. Its theoretical, but I know you can foresee the near future where persistent accounts are required for features we will probably see next generation after this one. Nintendo has been one generation late on features like this for awhile or 2 generations or they will bring the feature in a gimped form (like voice chat on Wii U). So many Nintendo fans have your logic. "Yes Nintendo doesn't do this, but its ok because I do not care much for that particular feature and besides its not THAT important." I heard this logic used when I criticized Nintendo for sticking with cartridges on the N64, for going with smaller discs on the GC, almost no online on GC, or a terrible online store on the Wii. Its the mentality too many fans hold.

I'm not saying online accounts are a make or break feature. Nintendo is constantly ignoring these features and they add up! It becomes inexcusable to the point that it makes me reconsider my purchases, even if I still love the games they release. I want these good first party games paired with system features that are fully developed. I dont want Nintendo to be a clone with the other systems but regardless their games are what set them apart; unfortunately lack of third party and clunky online interfaces set them apart from the competition now as well. Neutral features like online fidelity cannot be blindly followed, they are just the sort of tools that are similar regardless of the system if they are done correctly.

I agree that Nintendo sold the most hardware last generation because they appealed to the unattended mass market. I do not agree with you at all on why Wii U is struggling though. The Wii did so well because it appealed the to an ignored market with simplicity, it had good first party games that sometimes really showcased the hook the system had (motion controls with games like Wii Sports and LoZ: SS) and they had a clear message that connected with consumers quickly. But Nintendo lost that momentum at the end of last generation with Wii because of the apparent lack of features caught up to them. They marketed the Wii U terribly, it had way less games to play than the Wii in the same time period, it had many bugs and loading issues at launch, the name is uninventive and confusing, it still doesn't have any software that completely showcases the GamePad, its about as powerful as last generation consoles but still falls behind in many online features, and the list goes on. Wii U is not doing bad because it followed the competition too closely. Its bad for all those reasons I listed which has nothing to do with similarities to the competition, not to mention those similarities are drawn to the last generation HD consoles not the upcoming ones.

thedude-

Sorry about not responding to this until now. Been away from GS for a few days. :P

Anywho... am I suppose to think about what could happen a entire generation from now, whenever that may be and how Nintendo will be "behind" yet again? Sorry, I don't have that kind of foresight. :P You also seem to misunderstand where I'm coming from here. I'm not giving Nintendo a pass for every decision it has made with its consoles, and I'm certainly not trying to use my preferences as justification for Nintendo's decisions. In fact, you made it a personal thing first by implying that I haven't used certain features on other consoles and bringing up your brothers' usage of the online features as a way of guessing how much I'm aware of them. To now generalize that I'm just the everyday Nintendo fan that finds every decision the company makes as right, despite the fact that I've said that the company needs to address a series of things moving forward, is just a bit... misplaced, if you ask me. No hard feelings or anything, though.

On the other hand, I didn't say that you in particular were one of those people that always finds fault in what Nintendo doesn't do. I honestly don't see you as that type of person. My point was that there's another side to the coin of Nintendo fans who do try to give Nintendo a pass on everything. I'd like to believe that we both try to avoid those two groups and discuss things based on our own observations. It just so happens we have different views on what holds Nintendo back. What I find interesting about this is that, if I'm not mistaken, you're actually the Wii U owner between the two of us. That would mean that in spite of this discussion and all of the points being made about how Nintendo is constantly ignoring features, you still found more to like about where the system was or is heading than I ever have. If I'm wrong about you owning a Wii U, ignore this part, and I don't say that as an insult either way. Even so, it's something to think about as we've gone back and forth in this discussion.

Yeah... I know I haven't really touched on your points in this reply very well, but honestly, I've lost the will to rebuttal at this point, even though I felt the need to reply to this in general. When it comes to what Nintendo has lacked in recent console gens and how much it has impacted them, I simply don't think it's as cut and dry as the majority seem to make it, from the N64's choice of format to whatever supposedly held the Wii back from being more successful than what it was. The biggest takeaway I've found in recent years is Nintendo suddenly finding itself at the top of the mountain again, in spite of having a console with all of the previous aforementioned shortcomings (format, online, etc.), plus being significantly less powerful than the other systems on the market. And now, Nintendo's pretty much back to where it left off with the GCN, even though you had those saying Nintendo was back on the "right track" with the Wii U at one point because of its offerings. To me, this only suggests a disconnection to what the vocal masses believe is important for Nintendo moving forward and what actually has been truly important for the company's relevance in the console market.

I guess that's why I've stressed the part about prioritizing the Wii U's problems as much as I have, for as much as we can talk about what Nintendo doesn't do, they've clearly done something right in recent years, only to fail to keep that ball rolling. And more importantly than what the Wii U lacks in comparison to the supposed industry standard and what Nintendo may lack in the future, I can't help but think the inability to keep the Wii's mass market connection going strong is really the company's biggest mistake right now, with everything else that has been mentioned just being additional ammo to attack Nintendo with. Call it stubbornness on my part or what have you, but until I actually have reason to believe otherwise, this is the story I'm sticking to. :P

[QUOTE="thedude-"]

Its the forerunner for deeper cloud integration and functions. Its theoretical, but I know you can foresee the near future where persistent accounts are required for features we will probably see next generation after this one. Nintendo has been one generation late on features like this for awhile or 2 generations or they will bring the feature in a gimped form (like voice chat on Wii U). So many Nintendo fans have your logic. "Yes Nintendo doesn't do this, but its ok because I do not care much for that particular feature and besides its not THAT important." I heard this logic used when I criticized Nintendo for sticking with cartridges on the N64, for going with smaller discs on the GC, almost no online on GC, or a terrible online store on the Wii. Its the mentality too many fans hold.

I'm not saying online accounts are a make or break feature. Nintendo is constantly ignoring these features and they add up! It becomes inexcusable to the point that it makes me reconsider my purchases, even if I still love the games they release. I want these good first party games paired with system features that are fully developed. I dont want Nintendo to be a clone with the other systems but regardless their games are what set them apart; unfortunately lack of third party and clunky online interfaces set them apart from the competition now as well. Neutral features like online fidelity cannot be blindly followed, they are just the sort of tools that are similar regardless of the system if they are done correctly.

I agree that Nintendo sold the most hardware last generation because they appealed to the unattended mass market. I do not agree with you at all on why Wii U is struggling though. The Wii did so well because it appealed the to an ignored market with simplicity, it had good first party games that sometimes really showcased the hook the system had (motion controls with games like Wii Sports and LoZ: SS) and they had a clear message that connected with consumers quickly. But Nintendo lost that momentum at the end of last generation with Wii because of the apparent lack of features caught up to them. They marketed the Wii U terribly, it had way less games to play than the Wii in the same time period, it had many bugs and loading issues at launch, the name is uninventive and confusing, it still doesn't have any software that completely showcases the GamePad, its about as powerful as last generation consoles but still falls behind in many online features, and the list goes on. Wii U is not doing bad because it followed the competition too closely. Its bad for all those reasons I listed which has nothing to do with similarities to the competition, not to mention those similarities are drawn to the last generation HD consoles not the upcoming ones.

Madmangamer364

Sorry about not responding to this until now. Been away from GS for a few days. :P

Anywho... am I suppose to think about what could happen a entire generation from now, whenever that may be and how Nintendo will be "behind" yet again? Sorry, I don't have that kind of foresight. :P You also seem to misunderstand where I'm coming from here. I'm not giving Nintendo a pass for every decision it has made with its consoles, and I'm certainly not trying to use my preferences as justification for Nintendo's decisions. In fact, you made it a personal thing first by implying that I haven't used certain features on other consoles and bringing up your brothers' usage of the online features as a way of guessing how much I'm aware of them. To now generalize that I'm just the everyday Nintendo fan that finds every decision the company makes as right, despite the fact that I've said that the company needs to address a series of things moving forward, is just a bit... misplaced, if you ask me. No hard feelings or anything, though.

On the other hand, I didn't say that you in particular were one of those people that always finds fault in what Nintendo doesn't do. I honestly don't see you as that type of person. My point was that there's another side to the coin of Nintendo fans who do try to give Nintendo a pass on everything. I'd like to believe that we both try to avoid those two groups and discuss things based on our own observations. It just so happens we have different views on what holds Nintendo back. What I find interesting about this is that, if I'm not mistaken, you're actually the Wii U owner between the two of us. That would mean that in spite of this discussion and all of the points being made about how Nintendo is constantly ignoring features, you still found more to like about where the system was or is heading than I ever have. If I'm wrong about you owning a Wii U, ignore this part, and I don't say that as an insult either way. Even so, it's something to think about as we've gone back and forth in this discussion.

Yeah... I know I haven't really touched on your points in this reply very well, but honestly, I've lost the will to rebuttal at this point, even though I felt the need to reply to this in general. When it comes to what Nintendo has lacked in recent console gens and how much it has impacted them, I simply don't think it's as cut and dry as the majority seem to make it, from the N64's choice of format to whatever supposedly held the Wii back from being more successful than what it was. The biggest takeaway I've found in recent years is Nintendo suddenly finding itself at the top of the mountain again, in spite of having a console with all of the previous aforementioned shortcomings (format, online, etc.), plus being significantly less powerful than the other systems on the market. And now, Nintendo's pretty much back to where it left off with the GCN, even though you had those saying Nintendo was back on the "right track" with the Wii U at one point because of its offerings. To me, this only suggests a disconnection to what the vocal masses believe is important for Nintendo moving forward and what actually has been truly important for the company's relevance in the console market.

I guess that's why I've stressed the part about prioritizing the Wii U's problems as much as I have, for as much as we can talk about what Nintendo doesn't do, they've clearly done something right in recent years, only to fail to keep that ball rolling. And more importantly than what the Wii U lacks in comparison to the supposed industry standard and what Nintendo may lack in the future, I can't help but think the inability to keep the Wii's mass market connection going strong is really the company's biggest mistake right now, with everything else that has been mentioned just being additional ammo to attack Nintendo with. Call it stubbornness on my part or what have you, but until I actually have reason to believe otherwise, this is the story I'm sticking to. :P

I misplaced my words saying this is your logic completely. That is the logic of a blind Nintendo fanboy and I think you are observing it somewhat objectively. But I still think some of your thinking runs parallel to this flawed notion. I brought up my brothers because it represents what millions are doing, it represents real life examples of how these features are being used and how they are bringing convenience to the consumer where Nintendo seems make it a hassle. I own a Wii U like I will either buy or be given every single system. I had every system last generation and the same thing will probably happen this generation. I buy the good games and use the features that are well developed. If anything defending or discounting elements of a system cannot be properly done unless you own the system and actually know what you are talking about. I do not try to avoid any group, I just am really picky and overly critical of everything I buy, esp. when a system like Nintendo's is a giant tease for what could be so much better. if they were not so stuck in their ways.

PS2 found itself on top but it also had features that were silly. Like forcing you to buy an adapter to have 4 players. Just because a system sells the most does not excuse that company creator from having to fix these problems. Nintendo lost the ball rolling because of the lack of features on Wii. Wii did well for reasons that the competition was not paying attention to at first but then audiences became aware of Nintendo's quirks. Nintendo doesn't have to do everything exactly like the competition or even what its smarter critics have been begging them to change for years. However if they aren't going to adapt, then they need something else to replace the lack of stability and fidelity. If they don't want to adhere to standards which will only help them and their customers then something else has to supplement their interesting games. Meaning other features need to replace proper online and normal battery life on controllers. What they are doing now is not enough. Another flawed logic is saying the GC and now people saying the Wii U is adhering to the competition's standards more than the other systems and that is why it is failing is complete and utter bogus to the highest degree. First of all GC did not properly compete with the other systems. If it did then the controller would have more buttons, it would have had online, it would have had regular disks which would have brought so much more third parties to the table along with other benefits. Wii U is not even properly competing with last generation HD consoles, so to say it is sticking to their standards is completely false. It does not compete in hardware, it still has a splintered online system, still lacks proper OS integrated voice chat, it does not have persistant accounts and on and on. When Nintendo actually goes toe to toe competing against the other two with legitimate features and then it fails, then you can use that as an example why Nintendo needs to take its own path.

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

[QUOTE="thedude-"]

Its the forerunner for deeper cloud integration and functions. Its theoretical, but I know you can foresee the near future where persistent accounts are required for features we will probably see next generation after this one. Nintendo has been one generation late on features like this for awhile or 2 generations or they will bring the feature in a gimped form (like voice chat on Wii U). So many Nintendo fans have your logic. "Yes Nintendo doesn't do this, but its ok because I do not care much for that particular feature and besides its not THAT important." I heard this logic used when I criticized Nintendo for sticking with cartridges on the N64, for going with smaller discs on the GC, almost no online on GC, or a terrible online store on the Wii. Its the mentality too many fans hold.

I'm not saying online accounts are a make or break feature. Nintendo is constantly ignoring these features and they add up! It becomes inexcusable to the point that it makes me reconsider my purchases, even if I still love the games they release. I want these good first party games paired with system features that are fully developed. I dont want Nintendo to be a clone with the other systems but regardless their games are what set them apart; unfortunately lack of third party and clunky online interfaces set them apart from the competition now as well. Neutral features like online fidelity cannot be blindly followed, they are just the sort of tools that are similar regardless of the system if they are done correctly.

I agree that Nintendo sold the most hardware last generation because they appealed to the unattended mass market. I do not agree with you at all on why Wii U is struggling though. The Wii did so well because it appealed the to an ignored market with simplicity, it had good first party games that sometimes really showcased the hook the system had (motion controls with games like Wii Sports and LoZ: SS) and they had a clear message that connected with consumers quickly. But Nintendo lost that momentum at the end of last generation with Wii because of the apparent lack of features caught up to them. They marketed the Wii U terribly, it had way less games to play than the Wii in the same time period, it had many bugs and loading issues at launch, the name is uninventive and confusing, it still doesn't have any software that completely showcases the GamePad, its about as powerful as last generation consoles but still falls behind in many online features, and the list goes on. Wii U is not doing bad because it followed the competition too closely. Its bad for all those reasons I listed which has nothing to do with similarities to the competition, not to mention those similarities are drawn to the last generation HD consoles not the upcoming ones.

thedude-

Sorry about not responding to this until now. Been away from GS for a few days. :P

Anywho... am I suppose to think about what could happen a entire generation from now, whenever that may be and how Nintendo will be "behind" yet again? Sorry, I don't have that kind of foresight. :P You also seem to misunderstand where I'm coming from here. I'm not giving Nintendo a pass for every decision it has made with its consoles, and I'm certainly not trying to use my preferences as justification for Nintendo's decisions. In fact, you made it a personal thing first by implying that I haven't used certain features on other consoles and bringing up your brothers' usage of the online features as a way of guessing how much I'm aware of them. To now generalize that I'm just the everyday Nintendo fan that finds every decision the company makes as right, despite the fact that I've said that the company needs to address a series of things moving forward, is just a bit... misplaced, if you ask me. No hard feelings or anything, though.

On the other hand, I didn't say that you in particular were one of those people that always finds fault in what Nintendo doesn't do. I honestly don't see you as that type of person. My point was that there's another side to the coin of Nintendo fans who do try to give Nintendo a pass on everything. I'd like to believe that we both try to avoid those two groups and discuss things based on our own observations. It just so happens we have different views on what holds Nintendo back. What I find interesting about this is that, if I'm not mistaken, you're actually the Wii U owner between the two of us. That would mean that in spite of this discussion and all of the points being made about how Nintendo is constantly ignoring features, you still found more to like about where the system was or is heading than I ever have. If I'm wrong about you owning a Wii U, ignore this part, and I don't say that as an insult either way. Even so, it's something to think about as we've gone back and forth in this discussion.

Yeah... I know I haven't really touched on your points in this reply very well, but honestly, I've lost the will to rebuttal at this point, even though I felt the need to reply to this in general. When it comes to what Nintendo has lacked in recent console gens and how much it has impacted them, I simply don't think it's as cut and dry as the majority seem to make it, from the N64's choice of format to whatever supposedly held the Wii back from being more successful than what it was. The biggest takeaway I've found in recent years is Nintendo suddenly finding itself at the top of the mountain again, in spite of having a console with all of the previous aforementioned shortcomings (format, online, etc.), plus being significantly less powerful than the other systems on the market. And now, Nintendo's pretty much back to where it left off with the GCN, even though you had those saying Nintendo was back on the "right track" with the Wii U at one point because of its offerings. To me, this only suggests a disconnection to what the vocal masses believe is important for Nintendo moving forward and what actually has been truly important for the company's relevance in the console market.

I guess that's why I've stressed the part about prioritizing the Wii U's problems as much as I have, for as much as we can talk about what Nintendo doesn't do, they've clearly done something right in recent years, only to fail to keep that ball rolling. And more importantly than what the Wii U lacks in comparison to the supposed industry standard and what Nintendo may lack in the future, I can't help but think the inability to keep the Wii's mass market connection going strong is really the company's biggest mistake right now, with everything else that has been mentioned just being additional ammo to attack Nintendo with. Call it stubbornness on my part or what have you, but until I actually have reason to believe otherwise, this is the story I'm sticking to. :P

I misplaced my words saying this is your logic completely. That is the logic of a blind Nintendo fanboy and I think you are observing it somewhat objectively. But I still think some of your thinking runs parallel to this flawed notion. I brought up my brothers because it represents what millions are doing, it represents real life examples of how these features are being used and how they are bringing convenience to the consumer where Nintendo seems make it a hassle. I own a Wii U like I will either buy or be given every single system. I had every system last generation and the same thing will probably happen this generation. I buy the good games and use the features that are well developed. If anything defending or discounting elements of a system cannot be properly done unless you own the system and actually know what you are talking about. I do not try to avoid any group, I just am really picky and overly critical of everything I buy, esp. when a system like Nintendo's is a giant tease for what could be so much better. if they were not so stuck in their ways.

PS2 found itself on top but it also had features that were silly. Like forcing you to buy an adapter to have 4 players. Just because a system sells the most does not excuse that company creator from having to fix these problems. Nintendo lost the ball rolling because of the lack of features on Wii. Wii did well for reasons that the competition was not paying attention to at first but then audiences became aware of Nintendo's quirks. Nintendo doesn't have to do everything exactly like the competition or even what its smarter critics have been begging them to change for years. However if they aren't going to adapt, then they need something else to replace the lack of stability and fidelity. If they don't want to adhere to standards which will only help them and their customers then something else has to supplement their interesting games. Meaning other features need to replace proper online and normal battery life on controllers. What they are doing now is not enough. Another flawed logic is saying the GC and now people saying the Wii U is adhering to the competition's standards more than the other systems and that is why it is failing is complete and utter bogus to the highest degree. First of all GC did not properly compete with the other systems. If it did then the controller would have more buttons, it would have had online, it would have had regular disks which would have brought so much more third parties to the table along with other benefits. Wii U is not even properly competing with last generation HD consoles, so to say it is sticking to their standards is completely false. It does not compete in hardware, it still has a splintered online system, still lacks proper OS integrated voice chat, it does not have persistant accounts and on and on. When Nintendo actually goes toe to toe competing against the other two with legitimate features and then it fails, then you can use that as an example why Nintendo needs to take its own path.

I personally think that the wii u is a fantastic console as well, i love the concept of off screen play, its great for me cause i can only access our television for playing games late at night, but now with most games i can play when someone else is watching tv.

I love the controller as well i think its fantastic, the feel, the features, and with the xbox 360 and ps3 they have their good points and great games as well but the standard controllers you use to play your games with are generic and boring. There's nothing wrong with a conventional gamepad however but it actually feels fun to play, rather than just pressing buttons.

the games i love or know i'll love are zombi u, mass effect 3, pikmin 3, mario kart 8, wind waker etc

and i do love the old-fashioned way of how nintendo works as well. i own the wii u, 360s, ps3 superslim but the wii u is my favourite

It is great compared to the Wii -which is  not saying much- and is ok if you do not have another better console. I have a PS3 so the WiiU is irrelevant at the moment until a new Zelda and maybe Metroid comes out and a deeper price cut. Right now there is no reason to own it unless you are a Nintendo faithful for whatever reason.

I am enjoying my Wii U. I've mentioned before what a gem this console is. I've read most of the posts in this forum since I got mine day one. Most of the posters rave about the Wii and the games. You can have both as we all know Wii U is backwards compatible. My only reason I like the Wii U more is it doesn't run hot and over heat like the Wii does. All of the new features that Wii U offers whether or not I choose to use them or not still makes the Wii U the best Nintendo consol so far in my opinion. Having all of the Nintendo consoles doesn't make me an expert, but I can compare them logically where some posters only have one or two of the consoles. Bought my first console in 87'.

I am enjoying my Wii U. I've mentioned before what a gem this console is. I've read most of the posts in this forum since I got mine day one. Most of the posters rave about the Wii and the games. You can have both as we all know Wii U is backwards compatible. My only reason I like the Wii U more is it doesn't run hot and over heat like the Wii does. All of the new features that Wii U offers whether or not I choose to use them or not still makes the Wii U the best Nintendo consol so far in my opinion. Having all of the Nintendo consoles doesn't make me an expert, but I can compare them logically where some posters only have one or two of the consoles. Bought my first console in 87'.

calway55