Xenoblade Pirated 1 million Times

No its not, I know exactly what your talking about. Your talking about when publishers say "A million people downloaded the game, that's a million sales down the drain" What meetroid said was "potential" that's the keyword, that makes it an accurate statement. No guarantee that all those people were going to by the game, its actually pretty unlikely; but they are people who COULD have bought the game, because they were clearly interested. Now its even more unlikely that they'll buy it.Sepewrath

if we are using potential that way, then everyone with enough money for a wii + game is a 'potential' salerawsavon

^It is appropriate use, how do you think companies come up with things to sell? Of course you don't know exactly how many people will buy it, that was the problem with these games to begin with. You ballpark things, you don't just throw some random thing at consumers and see what sticks. Its all about potential, lets sat I'm selling a car to 50 people and I know all of them are drivers and they like the car. Then a lot down the street gives them the car for free, I think its safe to assume none of those people will be buying five cars from me. So the potential of making a sale to these people, drops dramatically. No one said anything about guaranteed lost, again the word you ignore is POTENTIAL. And you can lose potential sales.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]if we are using potential that way, then everyone with enough money for a wii + game is a 'potential' saleSepewrath

^It is appropriate use, how do you think companies come up with things to sell? Of course you don't know exactly how many people will buy it, that was the problem with these games to begin with. You ballpark things, you don't just throw some random thing at consumers and see what sticks. Its all about potential, lets sat I'm selling a car to 50 people and I know all of them are drivers and they like the car. Then a lot down the street gives them the car for free, I think its safe to assume none of those people will be buying five cars from me. So the potential of making a sale to these people, drops dramatically. No one said anything about guaranteed lost, again the word you ignore is POTENTIAL. And you can lose potential sales.

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]No its not, I know exactly what your talking about. Your talking about when publishers say "A million people downloaded the game, that's a million sales down the drain" What meetroid said was "potential" that's the keyword, that makes it an accurate statement. No guarantee that all those people were going to by the game, its actually pretty unlikely; but they are people who COULD have bought the game, because they were clearly interested. Now its even more unlikely that they'll buy it.foxhound_fox

I know a lot of people who pirate games to demo them so they can decide if they're worth purchasing. As far as we know, this could increase sales more than it hurts them because now more people know how good the game is.

Way to take it completely in one extreme end of the spectrum, as you have been the entire thread. If you honestly don't think piracy affects sales, you're head is so far in the sand you're sniffing china.WreckEm711

I know a lot of people who pirate games to demo them so they can decide if they're worth purchasing. As far as we know, this could increase sales more than it hurts them because now more people know how good the game is.

nintendofreak_2

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]Way to take it completely in one extreme end of the spectrum, as you have been the entire thread. If you honestly don't think piracy affects sales, you're head is so far in the sand you're sniffing china.foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]Way to take it completely in one extreme end of the spectrum, as you have been the entire thread. If you honestly don't think piracy affects sales, you're head is so far in the sand you're sniffing china.foxhound_fox

Do you have any showing that it doesn't affect sales? Use your head, its an extremely easy thing to figure out :?

Way to take it completely in one extreme end of the spectrum, as you have been the entire thread. If you honestly don't think piracy affects sales, you're head is so far in the sand you're sniffing china.WreckEm711

Then by all means, enlighten me. Sepewrath

Do you have any showing that it doesn't affect sales? Use your head, its an extremely easy thing to figure out :?WreckEm711

And foxhound, even if a single sale is lost to a pirate, that's proof enough that it effects sales. And you can believe that they lost at least one sell to a pirate right? If you say no, then its pointless to even continue this conversation. Because that would be proof that your just being pigheaded and refusing to admit the obvious reality. Sepewrath

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]Do you have any showing that it doesn't affect sales? Use your head, its an extremely easy thing to figure out :?foxhound_fox

Not much else to add to the thread, if you're that dense I pity you :?

Not much else to add to the thread, if you're that dense I pity you :?WreckEm711

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]Not much else to add to the thread, if you're that dense I pity you :?foxhound_fox

I understand it completely, except its not needed when the point is so blatantly obvious that a five year old could figure it out. You have youself a nice night little guy ;)

I'm off to go watch a bootlegged movie, but i'll definitely go see it in theatres after I'm done watching it! :roll: (That was sarcasm, in case you want empirical evidence otherwise you won't be able to add 2+2)

Your incredibly naive if you believe that. Lets look at the list at the games pirated more than Xenoblade; Galaxy 2, MW3, BF3 and here's the kicker, Portal 2. So unless Newell is saying that's he's responsible for Portal 2 being pirated over 3x as much as Xenoblade. None of those other games have overzealous security or bad distribution. I think you misunderstand or he would be willing to change his stance. This game could have come out in the US with no issue and you know what would have happened? It probably would have been pirated even more. Don't make that lame excuse, people pirate because they can and XB coming out in the US wouldn't have changed that. People would have stole it anyway. This response goes to everyone claiming its Nintendo's fault, I guess you can say it is for them not having better security, but outside of that, its on no one but the people who choose to steal the game. Sepewrath

There's always going to be piracy. Overcharging, DRM, and distribution issues will expand that. I'm not saying that Nintendo could have 100% eliminated piracy with proper distribution, but I'm saying that there are maybe 100-200k of sales they could have had. That's not an excuse to the people who choose to break the law. It's a lesson to Nintendo that maybe they should be more on the ball and release games to regions that will pay for them. (lol instead Europe where piracy rules all)

All i'm saying is that those are 1 million people who were clearly interested in the game who decided to pirate it rather than buy it. Maybe none of them would have ever bought it, maybe all of them. I'm sure the number falls somewhere in between those two extremes, it isn't one or the other.meetroid8

I sighed when I read your first post about a million potential sales lost, but this makes me feel at least a little better. :P

Here's the thing about piracy.... It's free. Xenoblade costs at least $50, more if you import. Basic economics tells us that a LOT more people are willing to get something for free rather than pay $50+ for it. Not all of the people who would download something for free are going to be the same people who would be willing to spend more money on it if that were their only option.

It's the "what the hell, it's free" principle. I used that exact principle on Xevious for the 3DS thanks to Club Nintendo coins. And it sucks. I would never, ever spend real money on that game.

if you don't get it, then you probably won't ever get it and even if you do you won't admit it anyways (or at least this is what GS has taught me)rawsavon

There's always going to be piracy. Overcharging, DRM, and distribution issues will expand that. I'm not saying that Nintendo could have 100% eliminated piracy with proper distribution, but I'm saying that there are maybe 100-200k of sales they could have had. That's not an excuse to the people who choose to break the law. It's a lesson to Nintendo that maybe they should be more on the ball and release games to regions that will pay for them. (lol instead Europe where piracy rules all)

GunSmith1_basic

They would know that when pirating these games and then subsequently not buying them, they aren't helping distribution issues, because when this game tanks because everyone pirated it. There goes the other games they claim they want. Pirating is not very useful outside of getting games for free, I wish more people who pirated games would just say that, instead of coming up with terrible excuses.

When it comes down to it this game was going to be pirated alot no matter what. What we don't need to argue about is how stealing=pirating and stealing=wrong

What we don't need to argue about is how stealing=pirating and stealing=wrongLaytonsCat

Why not? It is perfectly legitimate discussion in a topic about piracy. Just because you and the other people in this thread who know nothing about copyright law and basics ethics, even at a general level that anyone can learn through reading a Wikipedia page, doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss how blaming Nintendo for this (which is where all this started) is downright wrong and just plain ignorant.

But whatever... I guess my hopes of finding intelligent discussion on the Wii board have been dashed. Hell, there are less people on System Wars who perpetrate these misconceptions.

foxhound_fox

well there are two kinds of "blame" and this is a place for informal discussion so sure, technically "blame" is the wrong word.

The technical term is "caused".

Like anything as complex as this there are many causes for Xenoblade's piracy (and BTW, just to make this clear, I'm no pirate):

-human immorality, impatience, peer pressure, etc.

-economic disparity in individuals and regions (ie rampant Chinese and European piracy)

-ease, convience, and lack of negative consequences in obtaining and using pirated software individually and regionally

-difficulty and frustration in obtaining software legally, individually and regionally

This thread is business related, right? Xenoblade needs to make money to justify making more games like it. In the business world you don't pout and point the fingers at human impatience and immorality. You concern yourself with whatever is in your power to change. Nintendo could have dealt with the last two points on my list and they screwed that part up. At least some portion of pirated Xenoblades were from frustrated consumers in North America who would have paid. It's hard to say how much exactly but it's guaranteed to be less than 100% and more than 0%. There's also the issue of distribution problems in Europe btw. A lot of French people had to import their's from the UK because of limited supply (and judging by sales there, those supplies must have been extremely limited)

Me is NERD

I feel bad for the people who worked on this game. And I feel bad for us gamers cause wie won't be getting these kind of games; but it doesn't matter, we will still have the yearly Call of Duty and Madden...Rod90

Why not? It is perfectly legitimate discussion in a topic about piracy. Just because you and the other people in this thread who know nothing about copyright law and basics ethics, even at a general level that anyone can learn through reading a Wikipedia page, doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss how blaming Nintendo for this (which is where all this started) is downright wrong and just plain ignorant. But whatever... I guess my hopes of finding intelligent discussion on the Wii board have been dashed. Hell, there are less people on System Wars who perpetrate these misconceptions.foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="Rod90"]I feel bad for the people who worked on this game. And I feel bad for us gamers cause wie won't be getting these kind of games; but it doesn't matter, we will still have the yearly Call of Duty and Madden...Michael0134567

Well it certainly isn't a good thing.

I would guess the reason for this is twofold. Firstly, they have found a way around modding Wii consoles in such a way that it won't brick your console with updates. Secondly, and more importantly, I'm going to guess and say the majority of those who pirated copies live in North America, since nobody knew it would get released there until now.

well there are two kinds of "blame" and this is a place for informal discussion so sure, technically "blame" is the wrong word. The technical term is "caused".

Like anything as complex as this there are many causes for Xenoblade's piracy (and BTW, just to make this clear, I'm no pirate):

-human immorality, impatience, peer pressure, etc.

-economic disparity in individuals and regions (ie rampant Chinese and European piracy)

-ease, convience, and lack of negative consequences in obtaining and using pirated software individually and regionally

-difficulty and frustration in obtaining software legally, individually and regionally

This thread is business related, right? Xenoblade needs to make money to justify making more games like it. In the business world you don't pout and point the fingers at human impatience and immorality. You concern yourself with whatever is in your power to change. Nintendo could have dealt with the last two points on my list and they screwed that part up. At least some portion of pirated Xenoblades were from frustrated consumers in North America who would have paid. It's hard to say how much exactly but it's guaranteed to be less than 100% and more than 0%. There's also the issue of distribution problems in Europe btw. A lot of French people had to import their's from the UK because of limited supply (and judging by sales there, those supplies must have been extremely limited)

Me is NERD

GunSmith1_basic

Kudos for some of your points, but what exactly do you mean to say about European and Chinese piracy?You aren'tsuggesting that piracy in Europe is down to poverty? As though piracy in North America can't be? Considering the gap between the rich and poor in the U.S is comparitively larger than most of Europe I would be surprised if that was a factor over here.

I would agree that there are often supply problems caused by companies themselves, and thats not uncommon for JRPG's or Tactical RPG'sin Europe. Soul Nomad & the World Eaters andTales of Vesperia come to mind. Ultimately, they shoot themselves in the foot, because demand often outstrips supply greatly. 3 months ago I considered buying Tales of Vesperia on the 360 for £60-70, which is about $90-100. Thats after months of being that price everywhere I could find it, even though there was an 'On Demand' version on Xbox Live. It recently dropped down to £30 because new copies had been made available. Thing is, many of these copies were being sold brand new, so greed of retailers and other businesses is probably partly to blame in these situations.

[QUOTE="meetroid8"]All i'm saying is that those are 1 million people who were clearly interested in the game who decided to pirate it rather than buy it. Maybe none of them would have ever bought it, maybe all of them. I'm sure the number falls somewhere in between those two extremes, it isn't one or the other.JordanElek

I sighed when I read your first post about a million potential sales lost, but this makes me feel at least a little better. :P

Here's the thing about piracy.... It's free. Xenoblade costs at least $50, more if you import. Basic economics tells us that a LOT more people are willing to get something for free rather than pay $50+ for it. Not all of the people who would download something for free are going to be the same people who would be willing to spend more money on it if that were their only option.

It's the "what the hell, it's free" principle. I used that exact principle on Xevious for the 3DS thanks to Club Nintendo coins. And it sucks. I would never, ever spend real money on that game.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"] . You're being very hostile right now. What would you expect? Though granted your arguing with Sepewrath, he's.... intense. :P [QUOTE="Michael0134567"]

[QUOTE="Rod90"]I feel bad for the people who worked on this game. And I feel bad for us gamers cause wie won't be getting these kind of games; but it doesn't matter, we will still have the yearly Call of Duty and Madden...meetroid8

Well it certainly isn't a good thing.

I know a lot of people who pirate games instead of purchasing them, which is probably the majority of pirates. meetroid8

Shame, that prob means even less likelihood of that type of game being translated and released. [QUOTE="JordanElek"]

[QUOTE="meetroid8"]All i'm saying is that those are 1 million people who were clearly interested in the game who decided to pirate it rather than buy it. Maybe none of them would have ever bought it, maybe all of them. I'm sure the number falls somewhere in between those two extremes, it isn't one or the other.locopatho

I sighed when I read your first post about a million potential sales lost, but this makes me feel at least a little better. :P

Here's the thing about piracy.... It's free. Xenoblade costs at least $50, more if you import. Basic economics tells us that a LOT more people are willing to get something for free rather than pay $50+ for it. Not all of the people who would download something for free are going to be the same people who would be willing to spend more money on it if that were their only option.

It's the "what the hell, it's free" principle. I used that exact principle on Xevious for the 3DS thanks to Club Nintendo coins. And it sucks. I would never, ever spend real money on that game.

If you got the message that I think piracy means nothing, then sorry, that's not what I was saying. My only point is that "free" is more appealing than "not free," so it's impossible to extropolate the amount of interest in a priced game from a free version of it, hence my Xevious example. But it can obviously go either way. I might have no interest in something until I try it for free, then I'm sold enough to pay for it. Or I might hate it.

Piracy affects sales, but we have no way of knowing how much, especially since some downloads might mean a lost sale while others might mean a gained sale and yet others might mean there was never a potential sale in the first place.

[QUOTE="superbuuman"]well depends what they call pirates - if a person modded his Wii to become region free, then actually still import the actual (legal) game..are they still labelled pirates? In that instance I wouldn't call them pirates..it was NoA fault for being stupid anyway.Sepewrath

Not all torrents are illegal though!

People always forget that :(.

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"][QUOTE="superbuuman"]well depends what they call pirates - if a person modded his Wii to become region free, then actually still import the actual (legal) game..are they still labelled pirates? In that instance I wouldn't call them pirates..it was NoA fault for being stupid anyway.Haziqonfire

Not all torrents are illegal though!

People always forget that :(.

Aren't torrents themselves not actually a bad thing, its just that some people use them for bad stuff? :P

Aren't torrents themselves not actually a bad thing, its just that some people use them for bad stuff? :P

WreckEm711

There's good and bad.

Good: Torrenting a Ubuntu 11.10 ISO instead of using their main site, it costs them money to run their servers and they're a opensource product.

Bad: Torrent Xenoblade (those guys are jerks).

[QUOTE="superbuuman"]well depends what they call pirates - if a person modded his Wii to become region free, then actually still import the actual (legal) game..are they still labelled pirates? In that instance I wouldn't call them pirates..it was NoA fault for being stupid anyway.Sepewrath

Ah I see...in that case that is very bad.

im not surprised, they should have seen it coming sooner or later. now when its released in north america it wont sell as well as it should.

Perhaps not taking a ridiculous amount of time to localize it would have helped. Or, and this is a good one, not waiting four months to announce the game after fans around the country started a movement to make it clear they want said game. Truth be told, were it not being localized, I probably would have done the same.

I feel bad for the people who worked on this game. And I feel bad for us gamers cause wie won't be getting these kind of games; but it doesn't matter, we will still have the yearly Call of Duty and Madden...Rod90

They are relesing it only at GameStop next year in usa

the blame of that is on nintendo pretending they wouldn't release the game.

but keep in mind that a lot of legit players pirated the game, and many of those like to buy the game once they can, even after they pirate it (i know a few of them, and this board has some of them too)BrunoBRS

Imports have been burned time and time and time again, by fans with bigger eyes than stomachs. You cant blame Nintendo for waiting to see if the audience actually had an real interest or if it was you standard case of the internet beast(which I still think it is) Then they run out and pirate the game, because they have no patience and before you say, I don't know that it was those people; your right. However, being in all how many times I heard that group talking about how they would just pirate it, even heard it in the media, its a safe hypothesis. Maybe "a few" will buy the game anyway, but "a few" might be too few for TLS. Then we will be right back to square one, people will go whine on Facebook and 3hrs later pirate the game.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]
the blame of that is on nintendo pretending they wouldn't release the game.

but keep in mind that a lot of legit players pirated the game, and many of those like to buy the game once they can, even after they pirate it (i know a few of them, and this board has some of them too)Sepewrath

Imports have been burned time and time and time again, by fans with bigger eyes than stomachs. You cant blame Nintendo for waiting to see if the audience actually had an real interest or if it was you standard case of the internet beast(which I still think it is) Then they run out and pirate the game, because they have no patience and before you say, I don't know that it was those people; your right. However, being in all how many times I heard that group talking about how they would just pirate it, even heard it in the media, its a safe hypothesis. Maybe "a few" will buy the game anyway, but "a few" might be too few for TLS. Then we will be right back to square one, people will go whine on Facebook and 3hrs later pirate the game.