Zelda TP.... not that great

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

[QUOTE="Hungry_Homer111"] It is supposed to be the last Zelda of it's kind. Because of that, they wanted to make the best Zelda of its kind and used a lot of what has made the 3D Zelda games great. They focused a lot more on the puzzles in this game, and also focused on making a much stronger story.Shinobishyguy

Puzzles weren't hard and the story wasn't that compelling.

The bottom line is that even as a Zelda "of its kind", it didn't deliver. Simply because there's no "main kind" of Zelda. People act as if every Zelda except for WW was in "OoT kind", while the only Zelda to use OoT engine was MM and still had a very different feeling. Just because OoT is "the best Zelda" it doesn't mean that's Zelda "main style". Ocarina of Time is just as unique as any other Zelda - that is, until TP. People gor used to get something new in every Zelda, but for some reason they decided that an 8 years old design was the way to go. The result? "TP isn't that great" thread after thread. TP is a "Zelda of its kind" is no excuse. First, because it wasn't supposed to be: where's the whole animal interaction and other original stuff that was promised? There's barely none. Second, because Zelda always kept the same core gameplay, yet people acted as if after Wind Waker Zelda went in the most unexpected way. TP wasn't "coming back to Zelda roots" at all.

2nd of all: GS seems to be the only place disappointed with it. Looking at 95% on gamerankings...well....I'd say this game was really well received. 

1) That's what I mean by keeping the core gameplay. But things such as 3D camera and Z-targetting gave a completely different feeling to OoT. The psychodelic art direction and cel shaded grpahics did the same for MM and WW, which kept the core gameplay. Thanks for confirming it.

2) Thanks Cpt. Obvious, doesn't change the fact that such threads are still made months after release. TP did disappoint.

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

[QUOTE="Hungry_Homer111"] It is supposed to be the last Zelda of it's kind. Because of that, they wanted to make the best Zelda of its kind and used a lot of what has made the 3D Zelda games great. They focused a lot more on the puzzles in this game, and also focused on making a much stronger story.Wintry_Flutist

Puzzles weren't hard and the story wasn't that compelling.

The bottom line is that even as a Zelda "of its kind", it didn't deliver. Simply because there's no "main kind" of Zelda. People act as if every Zelda except for WW was in "OoT kind", while the only Zelda to use OoT engine was MM and still had a very different feeling. Just because OoT is "the best Zelda" it doesn't mean that's Zelda "main style". Ocarina of Time is just as unique as any other Zelda - that is, until TP. People gor used to get something new in every Zelda, but for some reason they decided that an 8 years old design was the way to go. The result? "TP isn't that great" thread after thread. TP is a "Zelda of its kind" is no excuse. First, because it wasn't supposed to be: where's the whole animal interaction and other original stuff that was promised? There's barely none. Second, because Zelda always kept the same core gameplay, yet people acted as if after Wind Waker Zelda went in the most unexpected way. TP wasn't "coming back to Zelda roots" at all.

2nd of all: GS seems to be the only place disappointed with it. Looking at 95% on gamerankings...well....I'd say this game was really well received.

1) That's what I mean by keeping the core gameplay. But things such as 3D camera and Z-targetting gave a completely different feeling to OoT. Thanks for confirming it.

2) Thanks Cpt. Obvious, doesn't change the fact that such threads are still made months after release. TP did disappoint.

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"][QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

[QUOTE="Hungry_Homer111"] It is supposed to be the last Zelda of it's kind. Because of that, they wanted to make the best Zelda of its kind and used a lot of what has made the 3D Zelda games great. They focused a lot more on the puzzles in this game, and also focused on making a much stronger story.Shinobishyguy

Puzzles weren't hard and the story wasn't that compelling.

The bottom line is that even as a Zelda "of its kind", it didn't deliver. Simply because there's no "main kind" of Zelda. People act as if every Zelda except for WW was in "OoT kind", while the only Zelda to use OoT engine was MM and still had a very different feeling. Just because OoT is "the best Zelda" it doesn't mean that's Zelda "main style". Ocarina of Time is just as unique as any other Zelda - that is, until TP. People gor used to get something new in every Zelda, but for some reason they decided that an 8 years old design was the way to go. The result? "TP isn't that great" thread after thread. TP is a "Zelda of its kind" is no excuse. First, because it wasn't supposed to be: where's the whole animal interaction and other original stuff that was promised? There's barely none. Second, because Zelda always kept the same core gameplay, yet people acted as if after Wind Waker Zelda went in the most unexpected way. TP wasn't "coming back to Zelda roots" at all.

2nd of all: GS seems to be the only place disappointed with it. Looking at 95% on gamerankings...well....I'd say this game was really well received.

1) That's what I mean by keeping the core gameplay. But things such as 3D camera and Z-targetting gave a completely different feeling to OoT. Thanks for confirming it.

2) Thanks Cpt. Obvious, doesn't change the fact that such threads are still made months after release. TP did disappoint.

Judging by this thread, no. And even if it did, Wind Waker isn't known for being "more of the same" as TP is. It was something new, and any educated gamer praises that. It could have been harder and longer, I'll give you that. But it revealed new ways of designing, getting attention to the art direction. As every other Zelda, WW was a main step in the gaming industry. Except for TP, shamefully. Almost four years of development, and the serie is just where it was after WW, if not worse.

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"][QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

[QUOTE="Hungry_Homer111"] It is supposed to be the last Zelda of it's kind. Because of that, they wanted to make the best Zelda of its kind and used a lot of what has made the 3D Zelda games great. They focused a lot more on the puzzles in this game, and also focused on making a much stronger story.Wintry_Flutist

Puzzles weren't hard and the story wasn't that compelling.

The bottom line is that even as a Zelda "of its kind", it didn't deliver. Simply because there's no "main kind" of Zelda. People act as if every Zelda except for WW was in "OoT kind", while the only Zelda to use OoT engine was MM and still had a very different feeling. Just because OoT is "the best Zelda" it doesn't mean that's Zelda "main style". Ocarina of Time is just as unique as any other Zelda - that is, until TP. People gor used to get something new in every Zelda, but for some reason they decided that an 8 years old design was the way to go. The result? "TP isn't that great" thread after thread. TP is a "Zelda of its kind" is no excuse. First, because it wasn't supposed to be: where's the whole animal interaction and other original stuff that was promised? There's barely none. Second, because Zelda always kept the same core gameplay, yet people acted as if after Wind Waker Zelda went in the most unexpected way. TP wasn't "coming back to Zelda roots" at all.

2nd of all: GS seems to be the only place disappointed with it. Looking at 95% on gamerankings...well....I'd say this game was really well received.

1) That's what I mean by keeping the core gameplay. But things such as 3D camera and Z-targetting gave a completely different feeling to OoT. Thanks for confirming it.

2) Thanks Cpt. Obvious, doesn't change the fact that such threads are still made months after release. TP did disappoint.

Judging by this thread, no. And even if it did, Wind Waker isn't known for being "more of the same" as TP is. It was something new, and any educated gamer praises that. It could have been harder and longer, I'll give you that. But it revealed new ways of designing, getting attention to the art direction. As every other Zelda, WW was a main step in the gaming industry. Except for TP, shamefully. Almost four years of development, and the serie is just where it was after WW, if not worse.

I hate these hyprocritical fans

first it was a a back lash about WW and MM being too different

Then it was a backlash about TP being too much like OOT. 

http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/action/thelegendofzelda/player_review.html?id=451062

this is what I thought of it

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"][QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

[QUOTE="Hungry_Homer111"] It is supposed to be the last Zelda of it's kind. Because of that, they wanted to make the best Zelda of its kind and used a lot of what has made the 3D Zelda games great. They focused a lot more on the puzzles in this game, and also focused on making a much stronger story.Wintry_Flutist

Puzzles weren't hard and the story wasn't that compelling.

The bottom line is that even as a Zelda "of its kind", it didn't deliver. Simply because there's no "main kind" of Zelda. People act as if every Zelda except for WW was in "OoT kind", while the only Zelda to use OoT engine was MM and still had a very different feeling. Just because OoT is "the best Zelda" it doesn't mean that's Zelda "main style". Ocarina of Time is just as unique as any other Zelda - that is, until TP. People gor used to get something new in every Zelda, but for some reason they decided that an 8 years old design was the way to go. The result? "TP isn't that great" thread after thread. TP is a "Zelda of its kind" is no excuse. First, because it wasn't supposed to be: where's the whole animal interaction and other original stuff that was promised? There's barely none. Second, because Zelda always kept the same core gameplay, yet people acted as if after Wind Waker Zelda went in the most unexpected way. TP wasn't "coming back to Zelda roots" at all.

2nd of all: GS seems to be the only place disappointed with it. Looking at 95% on gamerankings...well....I'd say this game was really well received.

1) That's what I mean by keeping the core gameplay. But things such as 3D camera and Z-targetting gave a completely different feeling to OoT. Thanks for confirming it.

2) Thanks Cpt. Obvious, doesn't change the fact that such threads are still made months after release. TP did disappoint.

Judging by this thread, no. And even if it did, Wind Waker isn't known for being "more of the same" as TP is. It was something new, and any educated gamer praises that. It could have been harder and longer, I'll give you that. But it revealed new ways of designing, getting attention to the art direction. As every other Zelda, WW was a main step in the gaming industry. Except for TP, shamefully. Almost four years of development, and the serie is just where it was after WW, if not worse.

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"][QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"][QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

[QUOTE="Hungry_Homer111"] It is supposed to be the last Zelda of it's kind. Because of that, they wanted to make the best Zelda of its kind and used a lot of what has made the 3D Zelda games great. They focused a lot more on the puzzles in this game, and also focused on making a much stronger story.nintendo-4life

Puzzles weren't hard and the story wasn't that compelling.

The bottom line is that even as a Zelda "of its kind", it didn't deliver. Simply because there's no "main kind" of Zelda. People act as if every Zelda except for WW was in "OoT kind", while the only Zelda to use OoT engine was MM and still had a very different feeling. Just because OoT is "the best Zelda" it doesn't mean that's Zelda "main style". Ocarina of Time is just as unique as any other Zelda - that is, until TP. People gor used to get something new in every Zelda, but for some reason they decided that an 8 years old design was the way to go. The result? "TP isn't that great" thread after thread. TP is a "Zelda of its kind" is no excuse. First, because it wasn't supposed to be: where's the whole animal interaction and other original stuff that was promised? There's barely none. Second, because Zelda always kept the same core gameplay, yet people acted as if after Wind Waker Zelda went in the most unexpected way. TP wasn't "coming back to Zelda roots" at all.

2nd of all: GS seems to be the only place disappointed with it. Looking at 95% on gamerankings...well....I'd say this game was really well received.

1) That's what I mean by keeping the core gameplay. But things such as 3D camera and Z-targetting gave a completely different feeling to OoT. Thanks for confirming it.

2) Thanks Cpt. Obvious, doesn't change the fact that such threads are still made months after release. TP did disappoint.

Judging by this thread, no. And even if it did, Wind Waker isn't known for being "more of the same" as TP is. It was something new, and any educated gamer praises that. It could have been harder and longer, I'll give you that. But it revealed new ways of designing, getting attention to the art direction. As every other Zelda, WW was a main step in the gaming industry. Except for TP, shamefully. Almost four years of development, and the serie is just where it was after WW, if not worse.

Thats all good and well but if you want to talk sales figures and general opinion well in Japan TP bombed as a top franchise, even fell short of the likes of Wii Sports. For some reason its only the western culture that seems to prefer the realistic tones and core values that its used over and over again. Personal opinion certainly swings both ways on its values as a game and as far as I'm concerned I'd take WW over it any day also.

But what I see is two kinds of Zelda fans, those that like WW and those that don't which is all fine.

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"][QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"][QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

[QUOTE="Hungry_Homer111"] It is supposed to be the last Zelda of it's kind. Because of that, they wanted to make the best Zelda of its kind and used a lot of what has made the 3D Zelda games great. They focused a lot more on the puzzles in this game, and also focused on making a much stronger story.tomarlyn

Puzzles weren't hard and the story wasn't that compelling.

The bottom line is that even as a Zelda "of its kind", it didn't deliver. Simply because there's no "main kind" of Zelda. People act as if every Zelda except for WW was in "OoT kind", while the only Zelda to use OoT engine was MM and still had a very different feeling. Just because OoT is "the best Zelda" it doesn't mean that's Zelda "main style". Ocarina of Time is just as unique as any other Zelda - that is, until TP. People gor used to get something new in every Zelda, but for some reason they decided that an 8 years old design was the way to go. The result? "TP isn't that great" thread after thread. TP is a "Zelda of its kind" is no excuse. First, because it wasn't supposed to be: where's the whole animal interaction and other original stuff that was promised? There's barely none. Second, because Zelda always kept the same core gameplay, yet people acted as if after Wind Waker Zelda went in the most unexpected way. TP wasn't "coming back to Zelda roots" at all.

2nd of all: GS seems to be the only place disappointed with it. Looking at 95% on gamerankings...well....I'd say this game was really well received.

1) That's what I mean by keeping the core gameplay. But things such as 3D camera and Z-targetting gave a completely different feeling to OoT. Thanks for confirming it.

2) Thanks Cpt. Obvious, doesn't change the fact that such threads are still made months after release. TP did disappoint.

Judging by this thread, no. And even if it did, Wind Waker isn't known for being "more of the same" as TP is. It was something new, and any educated gamer praises that. It could have been harder and longer, I'll give you that. But it revealed new ways of designing, getting attention to the art direction. As every other Zelda, WW was a main step in the gaming industry. Except for TP, shamefully. Almost four years of development, and the serie is just where it was after WW, if not worse.

Thats all good and well but if you want to talk sales figures and general opinion well in Japan TP bombed as a top franchise, even fell short of the likes of Wii Sports. For some reason its only the western culture that seems to prefer the realistic tones and core values that its used over and over again. Personal opinion certainly swings both ways on its values as a game and as far as I'm concerned I'd take WW over it any day also.

But what I see is two kinds of Zelda fans, those that like WW and those that don't which is all fine.

I'd say the only zelda that I really disliked was probablly 4sword adventures*even though it was kind of fun* or zeldaII for the nes

I'm sorry......but it'll take more than an admitedly unique art direction and great story the sway me away from the short lengh, tedious sailing, easy dificulty and almost broken pacing. But I'm sure you love pretty colors so much that you foreget these problems and give it a free pass for being "different" and "artistic" despite the fact that TP was also praised for it's art direction. And btw....you'll also find that there are people prefering TP to WW in this thread as well.

I hate these hyprocritical fans

first it was a a back lash about WW and MM being too different

Then it was a backlash about TP being too much like OOT. 

Shinobishyguy

Well, don't count me as an hypocritical fan, which aren't the subject of this discussion.

I already said it's fair to think WW is easy or short, but you'll insist on it forever because that's closest thing to an argument you still have (I guess you're the same guy to whom I had to say three times it's as fair to give TP AA or AAA before you realized it). Yes, TP was praised for its art direction, but with gorgeous games around or to be released (from Gears to Eternal Sonata, MGS4 to Little Big Planet), it has no impact as WW had, not to say TP art direction is nowhere as shocking as WW was and still is. WW is a reference wheter you like it or not. What did TP do? For the gaming industry almost nothing. Technically it was outdated from graphics to sound, artistically many games are on par or better, in terms of gameplay it lacked, even in its "exclusive" features: the wolf had limited controls, the animal interaction was barely existant, new itens were underused. It wasn't great for the industry, but at least it pleased many people like you. If that's all what matters to you, it's fair, but don't think it makes TP an unparalleled epic adventure, because it isn't. After three unprecedent games in a row (OoT, MM, WW), I couldn't expect less than yet another major step for the next Zelda. Well, it just didn't happen.

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"][QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"][QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

[QUOTE="Hungry_Homer111"] It is supposed to be the last Zelda of it's kind. Because of that, they wanted to make the best Zelda of its kind and used a lot of what has made the 3D Zelda games great. They focused a lot more on the puzzles in this game, and also focused on making a much stronger story.tomarlyn

Puzzles weren't hard and the story wasn't that compelling.

The bottom line is that even as a Zelda "of its kind", it didn't deliver. Simply because there's no "main kind" of Zelda. People act as if every Zelda except for WW was in "OoT kind", while the only Zelda to use OoT engine was MM and still had a very different feeling. Just because OoT is "the best Zelda" it doesn't mean that's Zelda "main style". Ocarina of Time is just as unique as any other Zelda - that is, until TP. People gor used to get something new in every Zelda, but for some reason they decided that an 8 years old design was the way to go. The result? "TP isn't that great" thread after thread. TP is a "Zelda of its kind" is no excuse. First, because it wasn't supposed to be: where's the whole animal interaction and other original stuff that was promised? There's barely none. Second, because Zelda always kept the same core gameplay, yet people acted as if after Wind Waker Zelda went in the most unexpected way. TP wasn't "coming back to Zelda roots" at all.

2nd of all: GS seems to be the only place disappointed with it. Looking at 95% on gamerankings...well....I'd say this game was really well received.

1) That's what I mean by keeping the core gameplay. But things such as 3D camera and Z-targetting gave a completely different feeling to OoT. Thanks for confirming it.

2) Thanks Cpt. Obvious, doesn't change the fact that such threads are still made months after release. TP did disappoint.

Judging by this thread, no. And even if it did, Wind Waker isn't known for being "more of the same" as TP is. It was something new, and any educated gamer praises that. It could have been harder and longer, I'll give you that. But it revealed new ways of designing, getting attention to the art direction. As every other Zelda, WW was a main step in the gaming industry. Except for TP, shamefully. Almost four years of development, and the serie is just where it was after WW, if not worse.

Thats all good and well but if you want to talk sales figures and general opinion well in Japan TP bombed as a top franchise, even fell short of the likes of Wii Sports. For some reason its only the western culture that seems to prefer the realistic tones and core values that its used over and over again. Personal opinion certainly swings both ways on its values as a game and as far as I'm concerned I'd take WW over it any day also.

But what I see is two kinds of Zelda fans, those that like WW and those that don't which is all fine.

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]I'm sorry......but it'll take more than an admitedly unique art direction and great story the sway me away from the short lengh, tedious sailing, easy dificulty and almost broken pacing. But I'm sure you love pretty colors so much that you foreget these problems and give it a free pass for being "different" and "artistic" despite the fact that TP was also praised for it's art direction. And btw....you'll also find that there are people prefering TP to WW in this thread as well.

I hate these hyprocritical fans

first it was a a back lash about WW and MM being too different

Then it was a backlash about TP being too much like OOT.

Wintry_Flutist

Well, don't count me as an hypocritical fan, which aren't the subject of this discussion.

I already said it's fair to think WW is easy or short, but you'll insist on it forever because that's closest thing to an argument you still have (I guess you're the same guy to whom I had to say three times it's as fair to give TP AA or AAA before you realized it). Yes, TP was praised for its art direction, but with gorgeous games around or to be released (from Gears to Eternal Sonata, MGS4 to Little Big Planet), it has no impact as WW had, not to say TP art direction is nowhere as shocking as WW was and still is. WW is a reference wheter you like it or not. What did TP do? For the gaming industry almost nothing. Technically it was outdated from graphics to sound, artistically many games are on par or better, in terms of gameplay it lacked, even in its "exclusive" features: the wolf had limited controls, the animal interaction was barely existant, new itens were underused. It wasn't great for the industry, but at least it pleased many people like you. If that's all what matters to you, it's fair, but don't think it makes TP an unparalleled epic adventure, because it isn't. After three unprecedent games in a row (OoT, MM, WW), I couldn't expect less than yet another major step for the next Zelda. Well, it just didn't happen.

wow W_F, i can't believe what i'm reading, especially when it is coming from someone such as you,  i mean really what are you talking about? when talking about YOU'RE personal opinion that's fine, but talking about the general opinion, HOW ON EARTH did TP disappoint? it's ranked as one of the top 20 on GR, and we all know that it would have gotten MUCH higher if not the extra development time for TP, i will give you that, but in the general opinion, TP was better than WW, sales wise as well, last i heard WW landed at 2 million, whereas TP has crossed the 4 million and nearly entered the 5 million mark, which is a great number.
i'm sorry, i understand your point and all, HOWEVER, TP was a superb game no matter what anyone says, i know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when talking about the GENERAL opinion, you are beggining to talk about facts, and facts cannot be messed with.nintendo-4life

It's a fact. Miyamoto himself mentioned how TP "failed" in Japan and "was doing OK" in USA. I don't judge a Zelda lightly, and TP isn't anything more than a great technical achievement on GC. It has its moments, but they're lost in a fossilized structure.

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"]wow W_F, i can't believe what i'm reading, especially when it is coming from someone such as you,  i mean really what are you talking about? when talking about YOU'RE personal opinion that's fine, but talking about the general opinion, HOW ON EARTH did TP disappoint? it's ranked as one of the top 20 on GR, and we all know that it would have gotten MUCH higher if not the extra development time for TP, i will give you that, but in the general opinion, TP was better than WW, sales wise as well, last i heard WW landed at 2 million, whereas TP has crossed the 4 million and nearly entered the 5 million mark, which is a great number.
i'm sorry, i understand your point and all, HOWEVER, TP was a superb game no matter what anyone says, i know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when talking about the GENERAL opinion, you are beggining to talk about facts, and facts cannot be messed with.Wintry_Flutist

It's a fact. Miyamoto himself mentioned how TP "failed" in Japan and "was doing OK" in USA. I don't judge a Zelda lightly, and TP isn't anything more than a great technical achievement on GC. It has its moments, but they're lost in a fossilized structure.

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"]wow W_F, i can't believe what i'm reading, especially when it is coming from someone such as you, i mean really what are you talking about? when talking about YOU'RE personal opinion that's fine, but talking about the general opinion, HOW ON EARTH did TP disappoint? it's ranked as one of the top 20 on GR, and we all know that it would have gotten MUCH higher if not the extra development time for TP, i will give you that, but in the general opinion, TP was better than WW, sales wise as well, last i heard WW landed at 2 million, whereas TP has crossed the 4 million and nearly entered the 5 million mark, which is a great number.
i'm sorry, i understand your point and all, HOWEVER, TP was a superb game no matter what anyone says, i know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when talking about the GENERAL opinion, you are beggining to talk about facts, and facts cannot be messed with.nintendo-4life

It's a fact. Miyamoto himself mentioned how TP "failed" in Japan and "was doing OK" in USA. I don't judge a Zelda lightly, and TP isn't anything more than a great technical achievement on GC. It has its moments, but they're lost in a fossilized structure.

TP for gamecube: 96%

WW for gamecue 95% 

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"]wow W_F, i can't believe what i'm reading, especially when it is coming from someone such as you, i mean really what are you talking about? when talking about YOU'RE personal opinion that's fine, but talking about the general opinion, HOW ON EARTH did TP disappoint? it's ranked as one of the top 20 on GR, and we all know that it would have gotten MUCH higher if not the extra development time for TP, i will give you that, but in the general opinion, TP was better than WW, sales wise as well, last i heard WW landed at 2 million, whereas TP has crossed the 4 million and nearly entered the 5 million mark, which is a great number.
i'm sorry, i understand your point and all, HOWEVER, TP was a superb game no matter what anyone says, i know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when talking about the GENERAL opinion, you are beggining to talk about facts, and facts cannot be messed with.Shinobishyguy

It's a fact. Miyamoto himself mentioned how TP "failed" in Japan and "was doing OK" in USA. I don't judge a Zelda lightly, and TP isn't anything more than a great technical achievement on GC. It has its moments, but they're lost in a fossilized structure.

TP for gamecube: 96%

WW for gamecue 95% 

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"]wow W_F, i can't believe what i'm reading, especially when it is coming from someone such as you, i mean really what are you talking about? when talking about YOU'RE personal opinion that's fine, but talking about the general opinion, HOW ON EARTH did TP disappoint? it's ranked as one of the top 20 on GR, and we all know that it would have gotten MUCH higher if not the extra development time for TP, i will give you that, but in the general opinion, TP was better than WW, sales wise as well, last i heard WW landed at 2 million, whereas TP has crossed the 4 million and nearly entered the 5 million mark, which is a great number.
i'm sorry, i understand your point and all, HOWEVER, TP was a superb game no matter what anyone says, i know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when talking about the GENERAL opinion, you are beggining to talk about facts, and facts cannot be messed with.nintendo-4life

It's a fact. Miyamoto himself mentioned how TP "failed" in Japan and "was doing OK" in USA. I don't judge a Zelda lightly, and TP isn't anything more than a great technical achievement on GC. It has its moments, but they're lost in a fossilized structure.

TP for gamecube: 96%

WW for gamecue 95%

But still....IN YO FACE!!

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"]wow W_F, i can't believe what i'm reading, especially when it is coming from someone such as you, i mean really what are you talking about? when talking about YOU'RE personal opinion that's fine, but talking about the general opinion, HOW ON EARTH did TP disappoint? it's ranked as one of the top 20 on GR, and we all know that it would have gotten MUCH higher if not the extra development time for TP, i will give you that, but in the general opinion, TP was better than WW, sales wise as well, last i heard WW landed at 2 million, whereas TP has crossed the 4 million and nearly entered the 5 million mark, which is a great number.
i'm sorry, i understand your point and all, HOWEVER, TP was a superb game no matter what anyone says, i know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when talking about the GENERAL opinion, you are beggining to talk about facts, and facts cannot be messed with.Shinobishyguy

It's a fact. Miyamoto himself mentioned how TP "failed" in Japan and "was doing OK" in USA. I don't judge a Zelda lightly, and TP isn't anything more than a great technical achievement on GC. It has its moments, but they're lost in a fossilized structure.

TP for gamecube: 96%

WW for gamecue 95%

But still....IN YO FACE!!

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]I'm sorry......but it'll take more than an admitedly unique art direction and great story the sway me away from the short lengh, tedious sailing, easy dificulty and almost broken pacing. But I'm sure you love pretty colors so much that you foreget these problems and give it a free pass for being "different" and "artistic" despite the fact that TP was also praised for it's art direction. And btw....you'll also find that there are people prefering TP to WW in this thread as well.

I hate these hyprocritical fans

first it was a a back lash about WW and MM being too different

Then it was a backlash about TP being too much like OOT.

Wintry_Flutist

Well, don't count me as an hypocritical fan, which aren't the subject of this discussion.

I already said it's fair to think WW is easy or short, but you'll insist on it forever because that's closest thing to an argument you still have (I guess you're the same guy to whom I had to say three times it's as fair to give TP AA or AAA before you realized it). Yes, TP was praised for its art direction, but with gorgeous games around or to be released (from Gears to Eternal Sonata, MGS4 to Little Big Planet), it has no impact as WW had, not to say TP art direction is nowhere as shocking as WW was and still is. WW is a reference wheter you like it or not. What did TP do? For the gaming industry almost nothing. Technically it was outdated from graphics to sound, artistically many games are on par or better, in terms of gameplay it lacked, even in its "exclusive" features: the wolf had limited controls, the animal interaction was barely existant, new itens were underused. It wasn't great for the industry, but at least it pleased many people like you. If that's all what matters to you, it's fair, but don't think it makes TP an unparalleled epic adventure, because it isn't. After three unprecedent games in a row (OoT, MM, WW), I couldn't expect less than yet another major step for the next Zelda. Well, it just didn't happen.

You have a little too much faith in Nintendo. Come on, nobody is perfect. There's bound to be some mistake in what they do, and you cant think every Zelda game will evoulutionize on the previous one. I just think you're being a tad harsh on TP. 

Nah, Twilight Princess is a fantastic game and I thought Wind Waker felt a little rushed towards the end but still a great game.

WW >>>>TP