Lil Wayne Is A Free Man!

[QUOTE="elpooz"]

Same applies to Drake, Wacka Flocka, YG, and a bunch of other artists. If it fits my mood/applies to me and I can nod my head to it, rap along with and enjoy it, why should I care about "quality" and how "good" it is?

 

Black-Demon

Wait.....if you don't like the quality of a song or don't think its good,why would you nod your head to it?

Because the beat compels me to. I don't need to sit there and assess and question the quality of something to be compelled or be entertained or enjoy it. So, I don't bother to. I sit, listen and react. If I'm not feeling it, it gets changed. If they say stupid ****, it doesn't usually matter if it sounds slick and the beat is on point. 

[QUOTE="Black-Demon"][QUOTE="elpooz"]

Same applies to Drake, Wacka Flocka, YG, and a bunch of other artists. If it fits my mood/applies to me and I can nod my head to it, rap along with and enjoy it, why should I care about "quality" and how "good" it is?

 

elpooz

Wait.....if you don't like the quality of a song or don't think its good,why would you nod your head to it?

Because the beat compels me to. I don't need to sit there and assess and question the quality of something to be compelled or be entertained or enjoy it. So, I don't bother to. I sit, listen and react. If I'm not feeling it, it gets changed. If they say stupid ****, it doesn't usually matter if it sounds slick and the beat is on point. 

Lmao,if it sounds "slick" and the beat is on point,then that means you like the song.....you don't jam songs that you think aren't good:lol:

You're missing the point, I don't make a point of assessing a song in terms of quality. My mind doesn't take that step. I listen and if I react positively, I keep listening, if it's not making me feel good or entertaining me, then it's getting changed. I don't sit there and go "oh damn, nice line right there..." when I listen.elpooz

You're missing my point. If you like a song and you feel you can nod your head to it,that means you admire the quality of it. Whether it be lyrics,production,or catchy hooks along with a good guest appearance. It doesn't make sense to enjoy listening to a track if you feel they don't meet your standards when it comes to quality....Critcially acclaimed albums in the underground aren't even always considered classics because of lyrics,punchlines,and metaphors.

I get what you're saying... I'm just saying that I don't make a point of doing such, like people here seem to do. People will nitpick lyrics and be like "so and so said this stupid ****" and that's what I'm saying I don't do. I don't think of the quality of something anymore, I just listen and if it works for me (fits my mood or amplifies it) then I keep listening. I don't breakdown music and say "this is good" or "that was bad." But yes, I guess something kinda had to be of quality to me if it appeals to me, so you're right with what you're saying. 

I've said it a million times before and I'll say it again: Weezy's flow and energy more than make up for his lack of strong lyrics. And honestly, when you're intoxicated or out with friends, his lyrics are pretty much exactly what you'd ask for. If I was sitting at home, or on the bus, or listening to music alone most of the time, maybe I'd want something like Illmatic to listen to primarily, but I'm either out or with friends most of the time, and because of such, Weezy's lyrics are just more appropriate much more often. Same applies to Drake, Wacka Flocka, YG, and a bunch of other artists. If it fits my mood/applies to me and I can nod my head to it, rap along with and enjoy it, why should I care about "quality" and how "good" it is?

And about Weezy having longevity... I'll be doing the same things I'm doing now in ten years (going out with friends, working the 9-5, going to school (maybe), partying, etc...) so his music is still going to be in rotation for me. Weezy is going to go down as one of the, if not THE, GOAT to a large number of listeners, because his music applies for a lot of people and his flow is appreciated by A LOT of listeners. Honestly, in today's rap environment, flow and production are overshadowing lyrics in a major way. Most listeners want rappers to rap about what said listeners are personally doing, not about politics, the problems of the world, and so on, and more importantly, they want them to sound smooth and nice when they rap about it and for them to rap over a beat that bangs. That's why Drake, Weezy, and artists like them are in high demand. Rap is moving on from its high valuing of lyrics, and so are listeners, so it's almost ludicrous to say that Weezy won't go down as a GOAT - he is exactly what most rap fans want right now, and it doesn't look like he's changing. Pac and Biggie were what fans wanted in their respective eras, and Weezy is what fans want at this time and what they will most likely continue to want for a good while. Obviously, there are people who want something else from the biggest name in Hip-Hop, but they are a minority. Period. There's a reason why Jay-Z dumbed down his lyrics and is now more or less entirely reliant on flow and production (B3, anybody?) - he realized that that is what the listeners want. People still love him, and for some reason people here seem to think he went downhill... he didn't, he changed and evolved with the music, and he's still selling millions and making listeners love his music because of it.

elpooz

[QUOTE="elpooz"]

I've said it a million times before and I'll say it again: Weezy's flow and energy more than make up for his lack of strong lyrics. And honestly, when you're intoxicated or out with friends, his lyrics are pretty much exactly what you'd ask for. If I was sitting at home, or on the bus, or listening to music alone most of the time, maybe I'd want something like Illmatic to listen to primarily, but I'm either out or with friends most of the time, and because of such, Weezy's lyrics are just more appropriate much more often. Same applies to Drake, Wacka Flocka, YG, and a bunch of other artists. If it fits my mood/applies to me and I can nod my head to it, rap along with and enjoy it, why should I care about "quality" and how "good" it is?

And about Weezy having longevity... I'll be doing the same things I'm doing now in ten years (going out with friends, working the 9-5, going to school (maybe), partying, etc...) so his music is still going to be in rotation for me. Weezy is going to go down as one of the, if not THE, GOAT to a large number of listeners, because his music applies for a lot of people and his flow is appreciated by A LOT of listeners. Honestly, in today's rap environment, flow and production are overshadowing lyrics in a major way. Most listeners want rappers to rap about what said listeners are personally doing, not about politics, the problems of the world, and so on, and more importantly, they want them to sound smooth and nice when they rap about it and for them to rap over a beat that bangs. That's why Drake, Weezy, and artists like them are in high demand. Rap is moving on from its high valuing of lyrics, and so are listeners, so it's almost ludicrous to say that Weezy won't go down as a GOAT - he is exactly what most rap fans want right now, and it doesn't look like he's changing. Pac and Biggie were what fans wanted in their respective eras, and Weezy is what fans want at this time and what they will most likely continue to want for a good while. Obviously, there are people who want something else from the biggest name in Hip-Hop, but they are a minority. Period. There's a reason why Jay-Z dumbed down his lyrics and is now more or less entirely reliant on flow and production (B3, anybody?) - he realized that that is what the listeners want. People still love him, and for some reason people here seem to think he went downhill... he didn't, he changed and evolved with the music, and he's still selling millions and making listeners love his music because of it.

thahomiene5tle

lol @ BD owning pooz in that argument :Pfat_rob

I like Pooz and missed him; he just got out of Rikers stop making fun of himToriko42

Personally I wish he posted more.

[QUOTE="thahomiene5tle"][QUOTE="elpooz"]

I've said it a million times before and I'll say it again: Weezy's flow and energy more than make up for his lack of strong lyrics. And honestly, when you're intoxicated or out with friends, his lyrics are pretty much exactly what you'd ask for. If I was sitting at home, or on the bus, or listening to music alone most of the time, maybe I'd want something like Illmatic to listen to primarily, but I'm either out or with friends most of the time, and because of such, Weezy's lyrics are just more appropriate much more often. Same applies to Drake, Wacka Flocka, YG, and a bunch of other artists. If it fits my mood/applies to me and I can nod my head to it, rap along with and enjoy it, why should I care about "quality" and how "good" it is?

And about Weezy having longevity... I'll be doing the same things I'm doing now in ten years (going out with friends, working the 9-5, going to school (maybe), partying, etc...) so his music is still going to be in rotation for me. Weezy is going to go down as one of the, if not THE, GOAT to a large number of listeners, because his music applies for a lot of people and his flow is appreciated by A LOT of listeners. Honestly, in today's rap environment, flow and production are overshadowing lyrics in a major way. Most listeners want rappers to rap about what said listeners are personally doing, not about politics, the problems of the world, and so on, and more importantly, they want them to sound smooth and nice when they rap about it and for them to rap over a beat that bangs. That's why Drake, Weezy, and artists like them are in high demand. Rap is moving on from its high valuing of lyrics, and so are listeners, so it's almost ludicrous to say that Weezy won't go down as a GOAT - he is exactly what most rap fans want right now, and it doesn't look like he's changing. Pac and Biggie were what fans wanted in their respective eras, and Weezy is what fans want at this time and what they will most likely continue to want for a good while. Obviously, there are people who want something else from the biggest name in Hip-Hop, but they are a minority. Period. There's a reason why Jay-Z dumbed down his lyrics and is now more or less entirely reliant on flow and production (B3, anybody?) - he realized that that is what the listeners want. People still love him, and for some reason people here seem to think he went downhill... he didn't, he changed and evolved with the music, and he's still selling millions and making listeners love his music because of it.

Apocalypse33

Haha, and that's not bad! :P But if you're going to to be talking about how you mainly listen to Lil Wayne and the like with little interest in other artists and call yourself a hip-hop fan like that guy, well I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be here, eh? Haha, no hard feelings elpooz :lol:thahomiene5tle

Are you really this ignorant? I mean, really? :|

"Your description of the way you listen to hip-hop makes you sound like the exact opposite of what real fans and the genre in general is all about. Stick to your POP music.."

So, you speak for millions of people and have the absolute definition of what a "real" fan of the genre is? Lil Wayne is my favorite rapper, and now I'm not a "real" fan of the genre? Please explain how that works, I'd love to know :|. While you're at it, tell me what the genre is "all about." OTB is truly a joke sometimes.

And BD did not own me... you don't own someone on a message board, you talk and discuss things. We're not playing COD. I'd only expect that from Colt and Rob though lol... you two love to instigate. Btw, Rob, having 10 people agree that "you're owning someone" on a message board doesn't make you more intelligent or more correct lol. I'm an "easy target?" I could show dozens of people the discussions we've had in the past, and tons would say I "won" or that I was "right." You, among many other posters here, seem to think that, because OTB always agrees with you, your points are more valid, stronger or just plain... more correct? I love that I'm an easy target :lol:... You try to make me look like a fool all the time, but, like so many other people here, don't realize how foolish you look yourself. I'm glad that this online world of OTB instills confidence in you and makes you think you're superior, because I'm certain real world discussions between us, with, of course, people watching/listening, would not do such for you. That is all :).

And about what BD said last... Rakim, Pac and other artists may have had to do certain things with their music to be recognized and be named among the GOAT, but they did those things in respect to the music environment they were in and the listeners they needed to cater to when they were most relevant. Lil Wayne is in a different environment and has very different listeners for the most part, so what exactly is it that sets them apart? The difference in the "quality" of their lyrics? The difference in the complexity of their lyrics? Consistency? All of those things are trivial if Wayne is pleasing fans, entertaining, being appreciated and selling just as well/as much, or better/more, than those rappers did. For what Rap is today and what the majority of listeners want, he fits the bill perfectly, and will undoubtedly be placed on the same shelf as Pac, Biggie, Nas, etc. You're right, when you compare him to Rakim, for example, he is much less "lyrical" (however you want to define that), among other things, but he is doing what Rakim did in his time right now. Everyone here seems to think I'm saying that Weezy is as lyrical as Rakim, or that he has a good a flow as Biggie, or that he had the impact Run DMC had. I'm not saying anything about what I think of Wayne, just that he is our present day version of those rappers (whether his music is of less quality or not) and that he will be mentioned alongside them when it's all said and done.

There's my monthly long ass post for you guys. Feel free to pick it apart, make sarcastic remarks, do the :lol: face, and act like I'm some kind of idiot ( :lol: ) and as if you are all da godz of duh universe. I mean, only cool kids like that post here ;). 

so what exactly is it that sets them apart? The difference in the "quality" of their lyrics? The difference in the complexity of their lyrics? Consistency? All of those things are trivial if Wayne is pleasing fans, entertaining, being appreciated and selling just as well/as much, or better/more, than those rappers did. For what Rap is today and what the majority of listeners want, he fits the bill perfectly, and will undoubtedly be placed on the same shelf as Pac, Biggie, Nas, etc. elpooz

Lil Wayne will never be on the same shelf as those guys. In no way shape or form is he our present day version of them. Because he puts out music people want to hear that makes great? That doesn't mean the quality of the music is great. Albums sales wise yes he is on the level of those guys and his popularity is as big as those legends but the difference that seperates them is the quality of the music and THAT wouldn't even be right to compare. I remember you nominated The Carter 2 for your classic album nomination lol it's a good album don't get me wrong but it's not an album most people are going to be listening to 15 years from now

:lol: I love how elpooz thinks I use number of OTB posters who "back up" my views as a barometer for if I'm correct or incorrect when I have, on many occasions, talked about how stupid it is to base the truth value of a statement on an argumentum ad populum fallacy. :lol: 

The entire OTB can disagree with me, idgaff, I base my opinions on logic dunny. BD owned you cause he presented a clear case, you just equivocated and danced around looking silly like Obama at an Indian middle school photo opp.

Step ya game up. 

[QUOTE="elpooz"]so what exactly is it that sets them apart? The difference in the "quality" of their lyrics? The difference in the complexity of their lyrics? Consistency? All of those things are trivial if Wayne is pleasing fans, entertaining, being appreciated and selling just as well/as much, or better/more, than those rappers did. For what Rap is today and what the majority of listeners want, he fits the bill perfectly, and will undoubtedly be placed on the same shelf as Pac, Biggie, Nas, etc. andyboiii

Lil Wayne will never be on the same shelf as those guys. In no way shape or form is he our present day version of them. Because he puts out music people want to hear that makes great? That doesn't mean the quality of the music is great. Albums sales wise yes he is on the level of those guys and his popularity is as big as those legends but the difference that seperates them is the quality of the music and THAT wouldn't even be right to compare. I remember you nominated The Carter 2 for your classic album nomination lol it's a good album don't get me wrong but it's not an album most people are going to be listening to 15 years from now

Dude, people listen to all types of dumb **** for years. ABBA had a damn Broadway play made out of their material. AC/DC, the most simplistic basic run of the mill ass band in the damn world, is still wildly popular. The public at large tends not to use a strict criteria for judging music quality. If they like it impulsively then they listen. You don't see them breaking down music like peeps do hear. Once time passes, if they connect positive memories to the music, its considered a classic. Lil' Wayne, Gucci Man, Waka, etc. will all be considered classics by large swaths of the listening public, but who gives a **** cause the public is dumb. Just look at the people they elect.fat_rob

ABBA is a good example of what i'm talking about. They were very popular during their time and created simplistic music but does that mean they're remembered as being one of the best? I don't think so. If people were to create a list of their top 5 pop singers today, the majority will say Michael Jackson because he was and still is our Pop King. the quality of his music was consistent.  Wayne doesn't have a consistant catalogue of albums. The one mainstream rapper today that I can say with certainty will be in the talks with GOAT in the near future is eminem because he has the popularity as big as Wayne and people understand he's a much better rapper than Lil Wayne and he has better albums than Lil Wayne. And you're right the public is dumb as **** so I think it's just a phaze they're going through

 ^lol,  a bit much, but funny

[QUOTE="thahomiene5tle"]Haha, and that's not bad! :P But if you're going to to be talking about how you mainly listen to Lil Wayne and the like with little interest in other artists and call yourself a hip-hop fan like that guy, well I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be here, eh? Haha, no hard feelings elpooz :lol:elpooz

Are you really this ignorant? I mean, really? :|

"Your description of the way you listen to hip-hop makes you sound like the exact opposite of what real fans and the genre in general is all about. Stick to your POP music.."

So, you speak for millions of people and have the absolute definition of what a "real" fan of the genre is? Lil Wayne is my favorite rapper, and now I'm not a "real" fan of the genre? Please explain how that works, I'd love to know :|. While you're at it, tell me what the genre is "all about." OTB is truly a joke sometimes.

Damn you guys are really going off on pooz right now. I didn't even read the entire argument but I'm siding with pooz on this one. Yeah obviously Lil Wayne isn't as good of a rapper as some of the all time greats (or even a good rapper), but do you guys really sit there as your listening to a song and judge how you like it it based on how it compares to all time greats? I doubt it. Lil Wayne is good in certain situations...sometimes Lil Wayne's nonsense music fits better than Talib Kweli rambling on about the current state of hip hop and the hardships of black people in Harlem. In fact even though I hate Lil Wayne he really is the best at what he's doing right now in making "fun" music you can turn your brain off (which is why most of his fans are retards im guessing) and bump to.

No he's not "quality" music but do you really only listen to top notch quality music at all times?

Damn you guys are really going off on pooz right now. I didn't even read the entire argument but I'm siding with pooz on this one. Yeah obviously Lil Wayne isn't as good of a rapper as some of the all time greats (or even a good rapper), but do you guys really sit there as your listening to a song and judge how you like it it based on how it compares to all time greats? I doubt it. Lil Wayne is good in certain situations...sometimes Lil Wayne's nonsense music fits better than Talib Kweli rambling on about the current state of hip hop and the hardships of black people in Harlem. In fact even though I hate Lil Wayne he really is the best at what he's doing right now in making "fun" music you can turn your brain off (which is why most of his fans are retards im guessing) and bump to.

No he's not "quality" music but do you really only listen to top notch quality music at all times?

AL_GREEN

Listening to his music isn't my idea of "fun".

If i want fun rap music I'll listen to Gucci Mane 

[QUOTE="thahomiene5tle"]Haha, and that's not bad! :P But if you're going to to be talking about how you mainly listen to Lil Wayne and the like with little interest in other artists and call yourself a hip-hop fan like that guy, well I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be here, eh? Haha, no hard feelings elpooz :lol:elpooz

Are you really this ignorant? I mean, really? :|

"Your description of the way you listen to hip-hop makes you sound like the exact opposite of what real fans and the genre in general is all about. Stick to your POP music.."

So, you speak for millions of people and have the absolute definition of what a "real" fan of the genre is? Lil Wayne is my favorite rapper, and now I'm not a "real" fan of the genre? Please explain how that works, I'd love to know :|. While you're at it, tell me what the genre is "all about." OTB is truly a joke sometimes.

And BD did not own me... you don't own someone on a message board, you talk and discuss things. We're not playing COD. I'd only expect that from Colt and Rob though lol... you two love to instigate. Btw, Rob, having 10 people agree that "you're owning someone" on a message board doesn't make you more intelligent or more correct lol. I'm an "easy target?" I could show dozens of people the discussions we've had in the past, and tons would say I "won" or that I was "right." You, among many other posters here, seem to think that, because OTB always agrees with you, your points are more valid, stronger or just plain... more correct? I love that I'm an easy target :lol:... You try to make me look like a fool all the time, but, like so many other people here, don't realize how foolish you look yourself. I'm glad that this online world of OTB instills confidence in you and makes you think you're superior, because I'm certain real world discussions between us, with, of course, people watching/listening, would not do such for you. That is all :).

And about what BD said last... Rakim, Pac and other artists may have had to do certain things with their music to be recognized and be named among the GOAT, but they did those things in respect to the music environment they were in and the listeners they needed to cater to when they were most relevant. Lil Wayne is in a different environment and has very different listeners for the most part, so what exactly is it that sets them apart? The difference in the "quality" of their lyrics? The difference in the complexity of their lyrics? Consistency? All of those things are trivial if Wayne is pleasing fans, entertaining, being appreciated and selling just as well/as much, or better/more, than those rappers did. For what Rap is today and what the majority of listeners want, he fits the bill perfectly, and will undoubtedly be placed on the same shelf as Pac, Biggie, Nas, etc. You're right, when you compare him to Rakim, for example, he is much less "lyrical" (however you want to define that), among other things, but he is doing what Rakim did in his time right now. Everyone here seems to think I'm saying that Weezy is as lyrical as Rakim, or that he has a good a flow as Biggie, or that he had the impact Run DMC had. I'm not saying anything about what I think of Wayne, just that he is our present day version of those rappers (whether his music is of less quality or not) and that he will be mentioned alongside them when it's all said and done.

There's my monthly long ass post for you guys. Feel free to pick it apart, make sarcastic remarks, do the :lol: face, and act like I'm some kind of idiot ( :lol: ) and as if you are all da godz of duh universe. I mean, only cool kids like that post here ;). 

Easy,the rappers that we view as icons today have put out at least some video material that we can pretty much view and conclude that its something they THEMSELVES wanted to share instead of putting it out just for the majority of people who go out and buy albums. Nelly,50 Cent,Lil Jon,and G-Unit as a whole were killing the mainstream when it came to sales,so how is it possible for an album like College Dropout to become one of the highest selling albums of 2004? How is it that during the era of materialistic type rap reigning Eminem still managed to release one of the highest selling hip hop albums? How is it that Outkast were still able to create a diamond album when singing in your raps wasn't a trend? Besides Hustler Music,whens the last time Wayne released a music video for a single with memorable subject matters similar to this,or this,or this,or this in his 6 years of top fame? I think thats the problem with rappers nowadays;they don't know how to blend their work with the art of making it catchy. I've said it before and I'll say it again,if you're going to be labeled the BEST rapper alive,you better be one hell of a diverse or versatile musician. And I don't want to hear any "he's different because he sings in some of his songs" type BS.

Just so you know, I was implying that the critics thoughts of Wayne are what are going to make him go down as a GOAT. His awards, acclaim and sales are gonna put him in that category. I wish you guys would put on your reading glasses for two minutes and see that I wasn't saying that the quality of his music puts him there. It doesn't matter what you think of the quality of his music andy, or how you define what makes a GOAT or one of the best BD. It's about what the critic giants of the music world, awards shows and sales charts say. You really think the opinion of some people on a Gamespot message board is going to decide whether or not he is a GOAT? You guys seem to think that Pac and Big went down as GOATs because of quality, they went down like that because they sold well, sold out shows, and had critics and the media on their nuts. Yes, their quality certainly helped them get garner acclaim and good sales, but with just quality, they would have been nothing. You guys are arguing that Wayne has no quality in his music, or not enough, but if he's ALREADY at the popularity level of people who are considered GOATs, why the hell would he need it to go down as one? He has garnered what they did, so how is the quality of his music relevant? I understand him not being a GOAT in your eyes, because of a lack of quality to you guys personally, but to the music world, he is going to go down as one of greatest rappers ever, whether you like his music or not. That's what I was saying. Now, tell me, in all honesty, that he is not going to be remembered as one of the largest, greatest rappers in the music world. He may not be by you guys personally, but his accomplishments and popularity speak a hell of a lot louder than a thousand message boards combined. Now, if you don't give a **** whether or not critics and sales make him a very well remembered artist, that's all well and good - you don't have to care... your personal views of who are GOATs are probably more important to you guys. 

And thahomie, your post is entirely based on what YOU think a real rap fan is or what rap is about. But YOU don't define a genre of music or the people within it, period. If what rap is or what a rap fan is is different to me, why should you care? I disagree with you almost completely, but if that's what you think those things are, cool. Don't act like there is some absolute definition of rap that everyone who listens to it must be aware of, or that there is some ideal rap fan that every person who listens to rap should try to be, because neither of those things exist. We all listen to rap for different reasons, we all have different taste, we all have different opinions of what should be in a rapper, and so on, and all of those are specific to us as individuals. And honestly, my rap library probably has more depth, variety and age than the average rap fan's, Liquid Swords and the Miseducation of Lauryn Hill are my two favorite albums of any genre, and I listen to the kind of rap you described just as much as I listen to Weezy, Gucci, Flocka, and rappers like them... soooo, yeah. Just because I'm not analytical doesn't mean I don't listen to the kind of rap you do lol.

And yeah I say the same thing a lot, because most of you don't seem to be capable of understanding it when I say it at first. Obviously, there are people here who get what I'm saying, but there are clearly people who don't. 

And Rob, I was messing with you... you need to take it down a level partner. 

It's about what the critic giants of the music world, awards shows and sales charts say.

You guys are arguing that Wayne has no quality in his music, or not enough, but if he's ALREADY at the popularity level of people who are considered GOATs, why the hell would he need it to go down as one? He has garnered what they did, so how is the quality of his music relevant?elpooz

Then why has Big Daddy Kane been honored on the Hip Hop Honors program for VH1 when he has never even sold a platinum album? Why is KRS-One looked at as a legend when he's never even released a platinum album? Why is Ice-T looked at as one of the hailed gangster rappers when he's only had two gold albums? Basing your status as a great overall on awards,sales,and the opinions of big name critics is typical and narrow-minded.

And that second statement is EXACTLY one of,or if not the problem I find in most rappers today. To sit there and say that he's already popular and shouldn't have to at least give making conscious or less cliche music a chance baffles me. As far as relevance,I'll say it again: I (personally) will the critique the hell out of any artist who's claimed to be one of the best rappers of all time because the rappers who share that same title do more than just make "fun" music that people can bump in stereos. Jay-Z started booming with his career with "Can I Get A" and "Money Ain't A Thang",but I don't think it would've hurt him to also put out "Hard Knock Life" as a single.

Just so you know, I was implying that the critics thoughts of Wayne are what are going to make him go down as a GOAT. His awards, acclaim and sales are gonna put him in that category. I wish you guys would put on your reading glasses for two minutes and see that I wasn't saying that the quality of his music puts him there. It doesn't matter what you think of the quality of his music andy, or how you define what makes a GOAT or one of the best BD. It's about what the critic giants of the music world, awards shows and sales charts say. You really think the opinion of some people on a Gamespot message board is going to decide whether or not he is a GOAT? You guys seem to think that Pac and Big went down as GOATs because of quality, they went down like that because they sold well, sold out shows, and had critics and the media on their nuts. Yes, their quality certainly helped them get garner acclaim and good sales, but with just quality, they would have been nothing. You guys are arguing that Wayne has no quality in his music, or not enough, but if he's ALREADY at the popularity level of people who are considered GOATs, why the hell would he need it to go down as one? He has garnered what they did, so how is the quality of his music relevant? I understand him not being a GOAT in your eyes, because of a lack of quality to you guys personally, but to the music world, he is going to go down as one of greatest rappers ever, whether you like his music or not. That's what I was saying. Now, tell me, in all honesty, that he is not going to be remembered as one of the largest, greatest rappers in the music world. He may not be by you guys personally, but his accomplishments and popularity speak a hell of a lot louder than a thousand message boards combined. Now, if you don't give a **** whether or not critics and sales make him a very well remembered artist, that's all well and good - you don't have to care... your personal views of who are GOATs are probably more important to you guys. 

And thahomie, your post is entirely based on what YOU think a real rap fan is or what rap is about. But YOU don't define a genre of music or the people within it, period. If what rap is or what a rap fan is is different to me, why should you care? I disagree with you almost completely, but if that's what you think those things are, cool. Don't act like there is some absolute definition of rap that everyone who listens to it must be aware of, or that there is some ideal rap fan that every person who listens to rap should try to be, because neither of those things exist. We all listen to rap for different reasons, we all have different taste, we all have different opinions of what should be in a rapper, and so on, and all of those are specific to us as individuals. And honestly, my rap library probably has more depth, variety and age than the average rap fan's, Liquid Swords and the Miseducation of Lauryn Hill are my two favorite albums of any genre, and I listen to the kind of rap you described just as much as I listen to Weezy, Gucci, Flocka, and rappers like them... soooo, yeah. Just because I'm not analytical doesn't mean I don't listen to the kind of rap you do lol.

And yeah I say the same thing a lot, because most of you don't seem to be capable of understanding it when I say it at first. Obviously, there are people here who get what I'm saying, but there are clearly people who don't. 

And Rob, I was messing with you... you need to take it down a level partner. 

elpooz

lol this is one of the most epic debates i've ever seen on OTB....yall are writing some novelsDaDukies

for real this entire thread needs a TLDR