5 foot 7, 400lbs............ makes $156,000 a year as union president

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mingmao3046

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#1 mingmao3046
Member since 2011 • 2683 Posts

Union fat cat Mark Rosenthal spends more time sleeping at his desk than organizing labor, a series of damning photos reveals.
The 400-pound president of Local 983 of District Council 37 the citys largest blue-collar municipal-workers union often downs a huge meal, then drops into dreamland in the early afternoon, members of the unions executive board told The Post.


IT'S A DREAM JOB: Mark Rosenthal, who pulls in $156,000 a year as head of Local 983 of District Council 37, nods off at his desk during one of a series of postlunch naps that have outraged members of the unions executive board.

He eats lunch when he arrives at work at 2 p.m. Then, like clockwork, he goes to sleep with a cup of soda on the table and the straw in it, said Marvin Robbins, a union vice president.
Then he wakes up, looks at his watch and says, I have to get out before the traffic gets bad. Hes usually out by 4 p.m. after being at the office two hours.
Rosenthal is a former Parks Department employee who rose to power campaigning to rid the union of corruption in the late 1990s.
He last made embarrassing headlines in 2009, when he inspired a City Council bill requiring jumbo-size ambulances for morbidly obese patients after he had a stroke at City Hall.
Since then, he hasnt been making much of an effort to give the citys ambulances a break and slim down. Union officials say he racks up $1,400 in monthly food bills on the union dime.
Much of the 5-foot-7, 400-plus-pound Rosenthals food tabs are for catered union events and meals he writes off as union business, board members claim.
They say he significantly overorders at eateries like Dallas BBQ, the Stage Door Deli and Pine Restaurant in The Bronx, a hangout for local politicians, and takes the extra food back to his Bronxdale apartment.
Hes always walking off with a doggie bag or extra boxes of food, said another executive board member.
Rosenthal, who earns $156,000 annually, yesterday denied being a free spender and insisted he works 12-to-14-hour days.
He says the allegations are part of a smear campaign by a faction trying to get another Local 983 vice president, Joseph Puleo, elected president in a June 5 showdown.
He said its normal for executives to take power naps.
He also blamed his meetings with the sandman on the effects of pain medication he takes for backaches he has suffered since he fell through a chair at a McDonalds last year.
The chair broke because Im big, Rosenthal said.
Im 60 years old, so if I eat during my lunch hour and take a little medication, cant I close my eyes? he said outside his apartment complex. Is it so outrageous?


Rosenthal is also under fire from the unions executive board for allowing lawyer Arthur Schwartz to allegedly rack up an average of $12,000 a month in union legal fees for years despite being on a $5,500 monthly retainer, board members said.
But Schwartz claims he has submitted only one monthly bill over $10,000 in 15 years representing the union and averages about $7,000 per month in fees.


APRIL 2, 2013
The executive board on May 15 voted to fire Schwartz anyway and also to pull Rosenthals union car.
Board members said they were furious enough to fire Schwartz because he pursued a lawsuit on Rosenthals behalf aimed at changing the makeup of the unions election committee after it nominated Puleo as a candidate for president on May 7.

Rosenthal responded to Schwartzs firing by filing another suit days later in Manhattan Supreme Court, claiming the May 15 meeting occurred without his approval.
The suit also accuses executive board members of using union resources to sway the election in Puleos favor.
Mr. Puleo and his cohorts have basically seized control without having won the election, the suit says.
Not only that, [but] they have [also] assigned legal work to attorneys, including to Mr. Puleos campaign lawyer.


MARCH 27, 2012
Puleo called Rosenthals allegations absurd, adding, Hes the one using the unions resources to sue members in good standing.
The case has since been moved to a federal court in Manhattan with a hearing set for today.
The union represents 3,000 workers mostly Parks Department peace officers and maintenance workers and NYPD tow-truck operators and other traffic agents that are among the lowest-paid city workers.
But they still fork over $1,080 in annual union dues that help fund Rosenthals salary and perks.
Rosenthal has headed the union since 1998, when he won an election under the platform of ridding the union of corruption and alleged mob ties. At the time, he called the union a cesspool.
Some members say he was a strong labor advocate for the union in his early years, but his questionable spending and sleeping habits and alleged lack of attention to union issues in recent years led to Puleos campaign.
He has also ruled the union with little opposition in part because he and Schwartz have strong political connections at City Hall, so members say they were afraid to go up against them until now.
There was always the fear that hed use his power to retaliate against anyone who spoke up, Puleo said.
He always likes to say hes a big supporter of Mayor Bloomberg and the fact that the mayor called him to thank him for his support when he was elected.
I would love to see the mayors face if he saw the big sodas that he likes to drink. Its kind of ironic.
Additional reporting by Lorena Mongelli
rcalder@nypost.com


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/labor_big_real_heavy_sleeper_jl3C7gI710FI3XqpEl5o3O/1

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frannkzappa

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#2 frannkzappa
Member since 2012 • 3003 Posts

Unions are a great example of why production should be government controlled.

As for service industry unions... i've yet to hear anything good said about them, they are sloth and greed incarnate.

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frannkzappa

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#3 frannkzappa
Member since 2012 • 3003 Posts

Also, who is taking all these awkward pictures of this guy?

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LordQuorthon

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#4 LordQuorthon
Member since 2008 • 5803 Posts

I'm gonna pull the "That's anti-semitic!" card just for shits and giggles. 

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EvilSelf

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#5 EvilSelf
Member since 2010 • 3619 Posts

Nice photos! If he is smart enough (or the system is exploitable enough) to pull it off, kudos...Big change needed in union structures anyway..

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The_Lipscomb

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#6 The_Lipscomb
Member since 2013 • 2603 Posts

Good for him.

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tagyhag

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#7 tagyhag
Member since 2007 • 15874 Posts
He looks so peaceful. :)
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mAArdman

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#8 mAArdman
Member since 2003 • 1612 Posts

He looks so peaceful. :)tagyhag


he might be dead 

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Chris_Williams

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#9 Chris_Williams
Member since 2009 • 14882 Posts

A WILD SNORLAX APPEARED

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worlock77

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#10 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

Ok.

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Mink

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#11 Mink
Member since 2005 • 1796 Posts

[QUOTE="tagyhag"]He looks so peaceful. :)mAArdman



he might be dead 

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kingkong0124

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#12 kingkong0124
Member since 2012 • 8329 Posts

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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lamprey263

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#13 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 45499 Posts
if you're that fat does slouching into it feel comfy, like napping on a beanbag?
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THE_DRUGGIE

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#14 THE_DRUGGIE
Member since 2006 • 25110 Posts

Huh, my mom's a union president and doesn't make jack crap from it.

Weeeeeird.

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BossPerson

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#15 BossPerson
Member since 2011 • 9177 Posts

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

kingkong0124
RIP
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wellbigd

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#16 wellbigd
Member since 2007 • 240 Posts

Unions are a great example of why production should be government controlled.

As for service industry unions... i've yet to hear anything good said about them, they are sloth and greed incarnate.

frannkzappa
How so, I could argue unions are a function of the government.
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kingkong0124

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#17 kingkong0124
Member since 2012 • 8329 Posts
[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

BossPerson
RIP

idgi bro
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frannkzappa

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#18 frannkzappa
Member since 2012 • 3003 Posts

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

Unions are a great example of why production should be government controlled.

As for service industry unions... i've yet to hear anything good said about them, they are sloth and greed incarnate.

wellbigd

How so, I could argue unions are a function of the government.

Please specify what you are talking about.

Go ahead.

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BossPerson

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#19 BossPerson
Member since 2011 • 9177 Posts
[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

kingkong0124
RIP

idgi bro

your two most cliche responses are LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO and RIP when someone dies. Nothing wrong with that, just teasing you
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kingkong0124

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#20 kingkong0124
Member since 2012 • 8329 Posts

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="BossPerson"]RIPBossPerson
idgi bro

your two most cliche responses are LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO and RIP when someone dies. Nothing wrong with that, just teasing you

true that, i'm a man of few words 

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Serraph105

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#21 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36092 Posts

*raises hell about union president making $156,000/year*

*ignores corporate president who award themselves multi-million dollar bonuses despite taking bailout money, and firing loads of workers* (job creator after all)

well done mingmao, well done.

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THE_DRUGGIE

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#22 THE_DRUGGIE
Member since 2006 • 25110 Posts

[QUOTE="wellbigd"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

Unions are a great example of why production should be government controlled.

 

As for service industry unions... i've yet to hear anything good said about them, they are sloth and greed incarnate.

frannkzappa

How so, I could argue unions are a function of the government.

Please specify what you are talking about.

 

Go ahead.

 

 

I think unions are the result of policy implimented by the government that may or may not include professions and services wholly or partially endorsed, as well as or excluding a service provided by one or more governing bodies within the local, state, and/or federal level(s), thus making them a conclusion of a government function as well as a possible function of a government due to regulatory policies that regularly define as well as oversee and/or take punitive action against violation(s) of established law.

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frannkzappa

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#23 frannkzappa
Member since 2012 • 3003 Posts

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="wellbigd"] How so, I could argue unions are a function of the government.THE_DRUGGIE

Please specify what you are talking about.

Go ahead.

I think unions are the result of policy implimented by the government that may or may not include professions and services wholly or partially endorsed, as well as or excluding a service provided by one or more governing bodies within the local, state, and/or federal level(s), thus making them a conclusion of a government function as well as a possible function of a government due to regulatory policies that regularly define as well as oversee and/or take punitive action against violation(s) of established law.

yes. unions as originally conceived were fine...However in practice they have strayed far from their origins.

Either way this is not the same as direct government control of production.

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wellbigd

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#24 wellbigd
Member since 2007 • 240 Posts

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

Please specify what you are talking about.

Go ahead.

frannkzappa

I think unions are the result of policy implimented by the government that may or may not include professions and services wholly or partially endorsed, as well as or excluding a service provided by one or more governing bodies within the local, state, and/or federal level(s), thus making them a conclusion of a government function as well as a possible function of a government due to regulatory policies that regularly define as well as oversee and/or take punitive action against violation(s) of established law.

yes. unions as originally conceived were fine...However in practice they have strayed far from their origins.

Either way this is not the same as direct government control of production.

almost exactly what I would have said Unions are not a function of the true free market. Plus why on earth would you want government production of goods an services, I believe that has been tried before.
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THE_DRUGGIE

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#25 THE_DRUGGIE
Member since 2006 • 25110 Posts

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

Please specify what you are talking about.

 

Go ahead.

 

 

frannkzappa

I think unions are the result of policy implimented by the government that may or may not include professions and services wholly or partially endorsed, as well as or excluding a service provided by one or more governing bodies within the local, state, and/or federal level(s), thus making them a conclusion of a government function as well as a possible function of a government due to regulatory policies that regularly define as well as oversee and/or take punitive action against violation(s) of established law.

yes. unions as originally conceived were fine...However in practice they have strayed far from their origins.

 

Either way this is not the same as direct government control of production.

You can expand upon the functions of government and define control in many, many ways. I think control, in governing terms, has the minimum requirement of passive regulation, explicit or implied, to change the definitions and terms of what a body can or cannot do, not necessarily directly control every aspect of the profession itself, regardless of status of being outside of the public service sphere.

Direct government control of production is a more literal take on control that has a much more narrow definition due to the rejection of passive regulation in favor of complete dominance. Personally, I see direct government control as a negative since it would lack the tailored element that unions provide; that is, unions being made of people who know the profession inside and out, able to clearly and thoroughly define how their profession impacts the specific sphere, both geographical and social, in which they live. Taking out this personalization does a disservice to people within the same profession who deal with incredibly different situations because of their location.

In short, letting unions oversee local production and conditions puts less pressure on the federal government and lets consideration for specific situations flourish. The most notable downside is the possibility of people like in the OP. However, there are the exact opposite kind of people heading local unions. After all, a union is only as good as the people running it...kind of like our government as a whole, when you think about it.

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Netherscourge

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#26 Netherscourge
Member since 2003 • 16364 Posts

Damn, he is fat.

Like, TIRED FAT.

Impressive.

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comp_atkins

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#27 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38943 Posts

Huh, my mom's a union president and doesn't make jack crap from it.

Weeeeeird.

THE_DRUGGIE
she must be doing it wrong. is she not sleeping enough?
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THE_DRUGGIE

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#28 THE_DRUGGIE
Member since 2006 • 25110 Posts

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

Huh, my mom's a union president and doesn't make jack crap from it.

Weeeeeird.

comp_atkins

she must be doing it wrong. is she not sleeping enough?

Probably that and she's not fat enough.

I'll make a mental note to tell her to get fatter next time I call.

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deactivated-5c74ba2955026

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#29 deactivated-5c74ba2955026
Member since 2013 • 451 Posts

Good for him, he seems content lol

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frannkzappa

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#30 frannkzappa
Member since 2012 • 3003 Posts

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

I think unions are the result of policy implimented by the government that may or may not include professions and services wholly or partially endorsed, as well as or excluding a service provided by one or more governing bodies within the local, state, and/or federal level(s), thus making them a conclusion of a government function as well as a possible function of a government due to regulatory policies that regularly define as well as oversee and/or take punitive action against violation(s) of established law.

wellbigd

yes. unions as originally conceived were fine...However in practice they have strayed far from their origins.

Either way this is not the same as direct government control of production.

almost exactly what I would have said Unions are not a function of the true free market. Plus why on earth would you want government production of goods an services, I believe that has been tried before.

Not services, just goods.

And while it has been tried before (and failed) it has not been tried by a competent technocratic government, which is a different matter entirely.

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wellbigd

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#31 wellbigd
Member since 2007 • 240 Posts

almost exactly what I would have said Unions are not a function of the true free market. Plus why on earth would you want government production of goods an services, I believe that has been tried before.

Not services, just goods.

And while it has been tried before (and failed) it has not been tried by a competent technocratic government, which is a different matter entirely.

Absolutely, the problem is where would you find such a government? devoid of corruption and looking for the best interests of it's citizens. I think that would an impossibility.
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Capitan_Kid

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#32 Capitan_Kid
Member since 2009 • 6700 Posts
I applaud him for making dat paper despite his conditio
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frannkzappa

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#33 frannkzappa
Member since 2012 • 3003 Posts

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

I think unions are the result of policy implimented by the government that may or may not include professions and services wholly or partially endorsed, as well as or excluding a service provided by one or more governing bodies within the local, state, and/or federal level(s), thus making them a conclusion of a government function as well as a possible function of a government due to regulatory policies that regularly define as well as oversee and/or take punitive action against violation(s) of established law.

THE_DRUGGIE

yes. unions as originally conceived were fine...However in practice they have strayed far from their origins.

Either way this is not the same as direct government control of production.

You can expand upon the functions of government and define control in many, many ways. I think control, in governing terms, has the minimum requirement of passive regulation, explicit or implied, to change the definitions and terms of what a body can or cannot do, not necessarily directly control every aspect of the profession itself, regardless of status of being outside of the public service sphere.

Direct government control of production is a more literal take on control that has a much more narrow definition due to the rejection of passive regulation in favor of complete dominance. Personally, I see direct government control as a negative since it would lack the tailored element that unions provide; that is, unions being made of people who know the profession inside and out, able to clearly and thoroughly define how their profession impacts the specific sphere, both geographical and social, in which they live. Taking out this personalization does a disservice to people within the same profession who deal with incredibly different situations because of their location.

In short, letting unions oversee local production and conditions puts less pressure on the federal government and lets consideration for specific situations flourish. The most notable downside is the possibility of people like in the OP. However, there are the exact opposite kind of people heading local unions. After all, a union is only as good as the people running it...kind of like our government as a whole, when you think about it.

You are by far the best poster on OT.

either way... i argue that in a technocratic government the need for Manuel labour in production will be near zero, with automation picking up the slack.

In this way a quasi socialist system can be put in place where each individual is given a set "package" ( food, water, middle class level housing, health care).

however unlike pure socialism this system encourages productivity by allowing the citizen to gain "more" by making what they want known and then working for it. In this system factory workers are replaced by workers and repairmen and money is replaced with consumer goods and services.

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frannkzappa

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#34 frannkzappa
Member since 2012 • 3003 Posts

almost exactly what I would have said Unions are not a function of the true free market. Plus why on earth would you want government production of goods an services, I believe that has been tried before.wellbigd

Not services, just goods.

And while it has been tried before (and failed) it has not been tried by a competent technocratic government, which is a different matter entirely.

Absolutely, the problem is where would you find such a government? devoid of corruption and looking for the best interests of it's citizens. I think that would an impossibility.


Only through dedication and adherence to platonic ideals can the people who would populate a technocratic government be made.

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worlock77

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#35 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="wellbigd"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

yes. unions as originally conceived were fine...However in practice they have strayed far from their origins.

 

Either way this is not the same as direct government control of production.

frannkzappa

almost exactly what I would have said Unions are not a function of the true free market. Plus why on earth would you want government production of goods an services, I believe that has been tried before.

Not services, just goods.

 

And while it has been tried before (and failed) it has not been tried by a competent technocratic government, which is a different matter entirely.

Which is, face it, an impossibility.

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FastEddie2121

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#36 FastEddie2121
Member since 2009 • 3081 Posts
He probably was granted at least one extra vote for the last election.
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comp_atkins

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#37 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38943 Posts

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="THE_DRUGGIE"]

Huh, my mom's a union president and doesn't make jack crap from it.

Weeeeeird.

THE_DRUGGIE

she must be doing it wrong. is she not sleeping enough?

Probably that and she's not fat enough.

I'll make a mental note to tell her to get fatter next time I call.

good son
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frannkzappa

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#38 frannkzappa
Member since 2012 • 3003 Posts

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="wellbigd"] almost exactly what I would have said Unions are not a function of the true free market. Plus why on earth would you want government production of goods an services, I believe that has been tried before.worlock77

Not services, just goods.

And while it has been tried before (and failed) it has not been tried by a competent technocratic government, which is a different matter entirely.

Which is, face it, an impossibility.

defeatist.

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worlock77

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#39 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

He probably was granted at least one extra vote for the last election. FastEddie2121

Which is only fair. He's eating for 4, so he should get an extra vote. Really he should get like 4 extra votes, but a line has to be drawn somewhere.

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worlock77

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#40 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

Not services, just goods.

 

And while it has been tried before (and failed) it has not been tried by a competent technocratic government, which is a different matter entirely.

frannkzappa

Which is, face it, an impossibility.

defeatist.

Realist son. I'm a realist. I don't waste my energy dwelling on pipe dreams.

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frannkzappa

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#41 frannkzappa
Member since 2012 • 3003 Posts

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Which is, face it, an impossibility.

worlock77

defeatist.

Realist son. I'm a realist. I don't waste my energy dwelling on pipe dreams.

Which is what separates you from the innovators of history.

Determine perfection and then work towards it. Anything less is a disservice to the human race.

Technocracy is not a pipe dream, it is the ultimate goal of humanity.

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worlock77

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#42 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

defeatist.

frannkzappa

Realist son. I'm a realist. I don't waste my energy dwelling on pipe dreams.

Which is what separates you from the innovators of history.

 

Determine perfection and then work towards it. Anything less is a disservice to the human race.

 

Technocracy is not a pipe dream, it is the ultimate goal of humanity.

Your technocracy would create a populace of idle hands. How exactly is that a good thing?

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frannkzappa

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#43 frannkzappa
Member since 2012 • 3003 Posts

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Realist son. I'm a realist. I don't waste my energy dwelling on pipe dreams.

worlock77

Which is what separates you from the innovators of history.

Determine perfection and then work towards it. Anything less is a disservice to the human race.

Technocracy is not a pipe dream, it is the ultimate goal of humanity.

Your technocracy would create a populace of idle hands. How exactly is that a good thing?

No it doesn't... If you are not productive you can't receive any goods our services not required to live and you will eventually be ejected from the technate entirely.

The productivity is merely shifted from manual labour to intellectual pursuits (R&D, the arts, the maths and sciences), which can be implemented by automation and foreign labour.

I've made this very clear that the point of technocracy is to increase productivity.

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gamerguru100

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#44 gamerguru100
Member since 2009 • 12718 Posts

A WILD SNORLAX APPEARED

Chris_Williams
lol
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worlock77

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#45 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

Which is what separates you from the innovators of history.

 

Determine perfection and then work towards it. Anything less is a disservice to the human race.

 

Technocracy is not a pipe dream, it is the ultimate goal of humanity.

frannkzappa

Your technocracy would create a populace of idle hands. How exactly is that a good thing?

No it doesn't... If you are not productive you can't receive any goods our services not required to live and you will eventually be ejected from the technate entirely.

The productivity is merely shifted from manual labour to intellectual pursuits (R&D, the arts, the maths and sciences), which can be implemented by automation and foreign labour.

 

I've made this very clear that the point of technocracy is to increase productivity.

The thing is many people simply aren't suited to intellectual persuits. If there's no place for them to be productive, because you've taken away any opportunities for them to be productive, then they're going to be idle. This is what you've encouraged. Idleness leads to all sorts of shit - crime, vandalism, overpopulation, etc. I'm sure you think your pet philosophy is the greatest thing since the invention of agriculture, but I'm not sure that you're really thought it out to its logical ends.

Sure, the point may be to increase productivity. That does not mean that will be the result. Lots of things have been done that ended up far from what the point was suppose to be. This is because humans are prone to f*cking things up. It's an old cliche, but there's truth to it - the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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RushKing

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#46 RushKing
Member since 2009 • 1785 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

Which is what separates you from the innovators of history.

 

Determine perfection and then work towards it. Anything less is a disservice to the human race.

 

Technocracy is not a pipe dream, it is the ultimate goal of humanity.

frannkzappa

Your technocracy would create a populace of idle hands. How exactly is that a good thing?

No it doesn't... If you are not productive you can't receive any goods our services not required to live and you will eventually be ejected from the technate entirely.

The productivity is merely shifted from manual labour to intellectual pursuits (R&D, the arts, the maths and sciences), which can be implemented by automation and foreign labour.

 

I've made this very clear that the point of technocracy is to increase productivity.

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Spartan_N7

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#47 Spartan_N7
Member since 2013 • 581 Posts
Funny... I get 6 or 7 hours of sleep a night, and I barely break $800 a month -.- Bullsh*t.
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frannkzappa

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#48 frannkzappa
Member since 2012 • 3003 Posts

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Your technocracy would create a populace of idle hands. How exactly is that a good thing?

worlock77

No it doesn't... If you are not productive you can't receive any goods our services not required to live and you will eventually be ejected from the technate entirely.

The productivity is merely shifted from manual labour to intellectual pursuits (R&D, the arts, the maths and sciences), which can be implemented by automation and foreign labour.

I've made this very clear that the point of technocracy is to increase productivity.

The thing is many people simply aren't suited to intellectual persuits. If there's no place for them to be productive, because you've taken away any opportunities for them to be productive, then they're going to be idle. This is what you've encouraged. Idleness leads to all sorts of shit - crime, vandalism, overpopulation, etc. I'm sure you think your pet philosophy is the greatest thing since the invention of agriculture, but I'm not sure that you're really thought it out to its logical ends.

Sure, the point may be to increase productivity. That does not mean that will be the result. Lots of things have been done that ended up far from what the point was suppose to be. This is because humans are prone to f*cking things up. It's an old cliche, but there's truth to it - the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

as for those unsuited for intellectual pursuits: All natural born citizens must pass through the educational system to remain in the technate. People that fail are ejected from the technate.

However intelligence and technical competence are not mandatory for all citizens, there would still be a large need for unskilled workers in the service industry. If they can't be part of the intellectual pursuits they can at least support them. And again if they fail to be productive or prove to be a problem they will be ejected from the technate.

And even if perfect technocracy is not achieved i still assert that even an imperfect technocracy is better than the democracies and tyrannies of today.

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m0zart

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#49 m0zart
Member since 2003 • 11580 Posts

No it doesn't... If you are not productive you can't receive any goods our services not required to live and you will eventually be ejected from the technate entirely.frannkzappa

And yet it's controlled by the Government. Is there some reason to believe that every possible form of special interest and the groups that would form to represent them would just disappear because the Government managed a technate?

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frannkzappa

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#50 frannkzappa
Member since 2012 • 3003 Posts

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Your technocracy would create a populace of idle hands. How exactly is that a good thing?

RushKing

No it doesn't... If you are not productive you can't receive any goods our services not required to live and you will eventually be ejected from the technate entirely.

The productivity is merely shifted from manual labour to intellectual pursuits (R&D, the arts, the maths and sciences), which can be implemented by automation and foreign labour.

I've made this very clear that the point of technocracy is to increase productivity.

That video doesn't actually apply... i am not advocating a blind carrot on a stick policy. It is up to the individual to pick their rewards and workload (to a certain extent...they can't just do nothing).