A few things I have learned by reading the Quran

I'm a non Muslim and about 3/4 of the way through....

-Jihad means to Overcome Internal Struggle, Strive for Social Justice, and to Overcome oppressive Tyranny.

-Women are equal to men in Islam

-Don't hate other people, Treat Others Fairly

-If someone says Hi to you say Hi back to them.

-Spend your money for good: to help your parents, your family, orphans, wayfarers, and the needy.

It's a shame fanatics have given Islam fuel to let others that don't understand to intensify their fear and Hatred. I guess Islam has the same problems Modern Christianity does, It's true message has been subverted by Dogma, Greed, Fanaticism, and desire for power and Influence.

As a non-Muslim I took away a completely different message. The text is not kind to non-believers

I'm not sure why so many have a hard time criticizing religion. There's always this fall back defense of "if only we followed TRUE Islam, or TRUE Christianity, there would be no problems". I don't buy it. What is and is not "true" Islam is different for everyone. What authority do you have to declare what is and is not true Islam?

I think the more extreme stuff comes from the Hadiths and not the Quran itself. Although there is some not so nice parts in the Quran also, just like in the Bible.

@Nuck81: Good for you! :D

Women are only equal to men in Islam so long as they are submissive to their husbands.

There is more to Islamic theology than just the Quran. And it is insane to say that Islam has the same problems that Modern Christianity does, to be accurate it has the same problems that medieval Christianity had, and it has had those problems for quite some time. The fanatics that dominate mainstream Islamic theology are not a recent phenomena.

Moreover, neither these fanatics nor their large number of followers care at all about what a non-Muslim thinks the Quran says, nor should they. I'll judge Islam by what it is, not what I'd like it to be.

And to say that its "true message" has been subverted by things like dogma and a desire for power and influence shows a basic misunderstanding about how organized religion works in general, and why organized religions come to be. Dogma is the glue that keeps the house of cards together. The desire for power and influence is why the house of cards is built in the first place.

I ask you as a non-Muslim, why do you think Muhammad created Islam? Islam is a uniquely political religion.

What does the Quran say about apostasy (i.e., leaving behind Islam entirely to either atheism or a new religion)?

I considered reading the Quran but I didn't feel like buying a copy. When I was in Iraq we were explicitly ordered not to touch them if we wasn't Muslim so we don't offend the locals (most of them were in Arabic anyway). I guess I could Google an English translation if I have some time to kill later.

And it would be very easy to find segments that say "Qur’an 9:5 Kill the nonbelievers wherever you find them."

Sure the three major monotheistic religions share their good points, but the prophet Muhammad was a maniac.

And it would be very easy to do this:

"If you kill my son and my daughter and my tribe and my people then I will kill you."

"I will kill you."

Thus we conclude that I'm a murderer. Good show...

Also flagged for insulting our prophet.

If you think about it, Islam is about the same age now that Christianity was during Medieval times. Perhaps it's just the natural aging process that major religions go through. Sort of the Puberty stage...

There are many Passages in the Quran that do seem militant. Particularly when Isolated from it's surrounding passages and context. But most of those passages are specific commandments to the Muslims at the time those passages were written. When Islam was new and greatly persecuted.

[quote]I ask you as a non-Muslim, why do you think Muhammad created Islam?[/quote] Because it was God's will?

Millions throughout history have tried to create religions for personal profit or gain. Few last more than the lifetimes of their creators. All Major religions throughout the world share the same basic tenant and belief, Mostly surrounded by the Golden Rule. Maybe there is a reason some survive and some don't.

Matthew 7:15-20New International Version (NIV)

True and False Prophets

¹⁵ “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. ¹⁶ By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? ¹⁷ Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. ¹⁸ A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. ¹⁹ Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ²⁰ Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

I got a copy for about three bucks on Amazon. I just piggybacked it on another order I had. It's a worthy addition to a personal Library

There are more than just monotheistic Religions. Perhaps you meant Abrahamic Religions? Religions based on the God of Abraham? If so, then there are actually four

lol

@-Sun_Tzu-: @foxhound_fox: Thanks guys appreciate the jokes. They're quite funny.

I'd rather this not turn into something it's not supposed to be.

I don't want it to get locked for dumbass reasons

I don't find that reason particularly convincing when it is said by Muslims - it is even less convincing when a non Muslim says it. Why are you not a Muslim if Islam is a divinely inspired religion?

Also extraordinary claims, extraordinary evidence yadda yadda yadda.

@Nuck81: how is a women being accused of adultery when raped if she cannot provide a witness being treated as equal

This thread is going to end well.

That's in the Bible, and well as the Torah

That was a question. I wasn't expressing belief. However, this statement is exactly why I also added the passage from the Bible

Should have posted a blog instead then.

@10854:

This is a myth that has been circulated for years. In cases of rape you do not need 4 witnesses. 4 witnesses are only needed if someone is accusing you of adultery or fornication.

You pulled that outta your a**? , it doesn't make no sense and there's no such thing as " kill the nonbelievers" ! Man this books is all about peace ! how come the prophet Muhammad was a maniac? i'd like an explanation ! it's shows your level of dignity calling a prophet "maniac" without saying anything to support it.

are you stating intent to post off topic and derail the thread?

Isn't that against the TOU?

Wow, super-cereal today, aren't you?

you could say the exact same thing about jews or christians. They're just as bad and have just as much bloodlust as them

I don't disagree.

But most of us in America, which is the majority of this site, aren't as familiar with Islam. With the Exception of the Bias Propaganda you hear from Fox NEws

Christians and jews don't really act out in violence....

You're phucking kidding me right?

Ah OK, so you just didn't answer the question then. I won't hold my breath waiting for one.

Is it one of those common "golden rules" that you mentioned previously?

hahahahaha, that's a joke right? Spanish inquisition, the Crusades in the middle ages, All the wars that are all in the name of Jesus or God? What about the 50 last years in the middle east? israel having warfare domestically and with countries around them? Like when Ariel Sharon butchered a hell of a lot of people? What about the old testament, with all the killings and the slaughtering (if it's true) in the name of a so called imaginary dude in the sky.

Who the **** thinks Fox News has anything factually correct? They're full of pundits and ignorant aholes.

There is an Islam problem in the world right now. People will get mad because it's not politically correct, but it's there and it's not going away.

Wow. Don't flag people because they disagree with you. That's sad dude.

You sure went a long way back......anyway FYI very few wars historically have been over religion. Deal with it.

I wouldn't feel safe touching one. I remember the one in our school library, wrapped in a cloth and placed above the other books.

@LJS9502_basic: So the Crusades weren't over religion? Ok... And you didn't adress the other things i said which are true

Yeah. You knew exactly what I meant by "Golden Rule"

So the question is, why would Sun Tzu make himself look like a dumbass by intentionally making an obtuse statement?

Well actually the Crusades were over land and power. I actually did address your statement. Only a small percentage of war....until 10 have been fought due to religion itself.

and complete verse is if enemies want peace let them live in peace.

They also fought against muslims who and they were against them, sure everything is about land, power and money. But come on dude, Crusades was a holy war.

*sigh* No it was over power and land. It was dressed that way to appeal to people but the contention was over getting back land and thus insuring one's power. Because the two sides were different religions does not inherently mean it's religious.

@The_Last_Ride: Psst, there's also the dirty little secret about pilgrims being taken and forced into slavery. It's not so black and white, now, is it?

Source:

Since Islam is an all-encompassing religion with guidance forall aspects of life. almost every action in a Muslim's life becomes anact of worship if it is done to build a better relationship with God.

The whole point of it was to retake Jerusalem dude. The holy place for christianity? Even Pope Urban the second called it a "holy war". There was also the French Wars in 16th century. Also consider that most people through history have been religious people and based their wars of that, power and money alone

@hiphops_savior: That also went the other way mate. I also didn't state Islam was innocent. US, England, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Denmark, etc all are the biggest slavetraders in history

Israel is having warfare imposed upon them. And not domestically no.

Technically they are occupying area's that doesn't belong to them, which basicly means domestically and no, they are invading Gaza. They're doing the warfare

No that does not mean domestically. Domestically means within a country. If it doesn't belong to them it is not within the country. Yes they are doing warfare but as I said, it is imposed upon them.

@themajormayor: Alright, you might be right on that one then

The peaceful Muslims across the world are, unfortunately, the ones without a leg to stand on. Because of abrogation the violent parts of the Qu'ran are the ones that are highlighted and practiced. Chapter nine, for instance, abrogates all of the peaceful parts of the Qu'ran that come before it. If you don't know what abrogation is, you aren't reading the Qu'ran in context.

So, in reality, Islam truly is a religion of violence.

I'm an agnostic atheist; I don't believe in any of the gods that are known through the religions of mankind, but I neither deny nor affirm that there exists a god of some sort. If there is a god, I don't think it cares about us; considering the horrible things that humanity does to itself, I think that a caring god would actively help us or put us out of our misery as a species. In my opinion, a god would be apathetic toward us, because compared to it, we'd be as micro organisms are to us: infinitesimal.