A problem with evolution

Let me break it down in simpler terms. Why would we develop thoughts or emotions that would not help our survival rate.Or like most concious thought hinders our survival.

kneeha

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="FastNorwegian"] The Big Bang was not a "large explosion", it was the rapid expansion of a singularity.zakkro

problem for evolution theory is that of explaining the origin of consciousness. Human beings are not just physical systems; we have rich mental lives. There is more to this mentality than electrical events in the brain. For any mental state, there is a physical event (what is going on in the brain) and a mental event (what that feels like for us). The two are, at least in principle separable; there's no logical contradiction in having one without the other.

The process of natural selection selects organisms for survival based only on their behaviour, on what they do. An organism that behaves as we behave but which does not have the attendant mental states that we have will have just as much survival value as we do. Mentality is not necessary for behaviour, and nothing more than behaviour is necessary for survival, so there is no survival value to having mental states.

Evolution theory, though, can only explain the origin of traits that have survival value. For example, we have two eyes rather than one, according to evolution theory, because that makes it possible to judge distances more accurately, increasing our chances of survival. Consciousness, though, does not increase our chances of survival; we are no more likely to survive than we would be if physical events in our brain did not give rise to conscious experiences, if our decisions just happened automatically as in a computer.

Evolution theory, therefore, cannot explain the origin of consciousness.

kneeha

tl;dr

Anywho evolution can explain things like emotional development, behavior, and the rationality of an organism choosing traits for natural selection. I believe the phrase you are looking for is sic semper erat, et sic semper erit.

Let me break it down in simpler terms. Why would we develop thoughts or emotions that would not help our survival rate.Or like most concious thought hinders our survival.

kneeha

Let me break it down in simpler terms. Why would we develop thoughts or emotions that would not help our survival rate.Or like most concious thought hinders our survival.

kneeha

Our mental capacity is greater than just survival. So we develop feelings for oher things in this world. Some get so addicted that they forget about what they have to do to survive. They let that greater desire take over thier life.

[QUOTE="kneeha"]

Let me break it down in simpler terms. Why would we develop thoughts or emotions that would not help our survival rate.Or like most concious thought hinders our survival.

xaos

[QUOTE="zakkro"][QUOTE="xaos"] Doesn't matter. It still came out of no where with no higher help.FastNorwegian

Prove that consciousness is more than just a function of the physical brain.

And calling it "evolution theory" doesn't undermine its validity, since "theory" as used in science is not the same as its colloquial meaning. It is a combined explanation of many thousands of known facts and testable data.

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="kneeha"]

Let me break it down in simpler terms. Why would we develop thoughts or emotions that would not help our survival rate.Or like most concious thought hinders our survival.

kneeha

Higher consciousness is important for social development. Empathy, emotions, complex decision making... all of these helped bring our species together to form society and survive.

I just don't believe in the Big Bang. It's a bit ludacris that a large explosion made human beings, that just happen to be compatible and reproduce, and that just happen to have a brain by which they can use to supply theirselves with further life. Believe me, Christianity is a crazy idea to, but it at least lets immprobable ludacris chance become a little less chancey. I like to think I have a general purpose in life.FastNorwegian

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="kneeha"]

Let me break it down in simpler terms. Why would we develop thoughts or emotions that would not help our survival rate.Or like most concious thought hinders our survival.

kneeha

Let me break it down in simpler terms. Why would we develop thoughts or emotions that would not help our survival rate.Or like most concious thought hinders our survival.

kneeha

Let me break it down in simpler terms. Why would we develop thoughts or emotions that would not help our survival rate.Or like most concious thought hinders our survival.

kneeha

Which emotions and thoughts are you referring to? I would think that the ways in which emotions like love and anger aid in our survival should be self-explanatory.

As for conscious thought in general, how the hell did you come up with the notion that it harms our chances of survival? I mean, did you think that some braindead comatose patient was responsible for coming up with farming, medicine, plumbing, and computers?

explain how concious thought hinders our survival? There is more to the existence of emotions then just survival. There is also the need for power in oneself and in their environment and the want to carry on their own genetic line.

Prove that consciousness is more than just a function of the physical brain.

And calling it "evolution theory" doesn't undermine its validity, since "theory" as used in science is not the same as its colloquial meaning. It is a combined explanation of many thousands of known facts and testable data.

foxhound_fox

It needn't even be a function, it could be simply a by-product of electro-chemical events with no real independent active agency at all.

I love how when you make an unarguable point you get no replies! Oh how I love the OT!

To make a decent argument i would have to have time to explain myself thouroughly in a 8 vs 1 argument. Im only here when im at work and im doing multiple things at once.

I love how when you make an unarguable point you get no replies! Oh how I love the OT!

Mikey132

To make a decent argument i would have to have time to explain myself thouroughly in a 8 vs 1 argument. Im only here when im at work and im doing multiple things at once.[QUOTE="Mikey132"]

I love how when you make an unarguable point you get no replies! Oh how I love the OT!

kneeha

I just don't believe in the Big Bang. It's a bit ludacris that a large explosion made human beings, that just happen to be compatible and reproduce, and that just happen to have a brain by which they can use to supply theirselves with further life. Believe me, Christianity is a crazy idea to, but it at least lets immprobable ludacris chance become a little less chancey. I like to think I have a general purpose in life.FastNorwegian

Ummm.....*FACEDESK* The Big Bang Theory has NOTHING to do with the creation of humans!

[QUOTE="FastNorwegian"]I just don't believe in the Big Bang. It's a bit ludacris that a large explosion made human beings, that just happen to be compatible and reproduce, and that just happen to have a brain by which they can use to supply theirselves with further life. Believe me, Christianity is a crazy idea to, but it at least lets immprobable ludacris chance become a little less chancey. I like to think I have a general purpose in life.DarkGamer007

Ummm.....*FACEDESK* The Big Bang Theory has NOTHING to do with the creation of humans!

But what would be the purpose of said traits. And why would they form at a level of complexity such as conciousness

kneeha

[QUOTE="kneeha"]

Let me break it down in simpler terms. Why would we develop thoughts or emotions that would not help our survival rate.Or like most concious thought hinders our survival.

karriston

He won't though, because the author is Richard Dawkins. His loss.

I don't think consciousness is a by-product of anything. Rather, I think it's the basis of everything.