A racial double standard

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="shadowchronicle"] If you do your reasearch you would know why there are double standards. There are historical reasons for why a certain race acts a certain way. EDIT: And what you just said about white people is a stereotype as well it insults white people by saying that they are being babied and that ther actions are individualized.shadowchronicle

And what are these historical reasons you speak of?

As far as I know, different members of a race act different ways.

Your second point is intellectual dishonesty on the highest level. I never stereotyped white people. I simply said that you don't ever hear people saying that the actions of whites makes the whole race look bad. Where in the world is the stereotype?

I didn't say white people were not a race. I said that society doesn't tend to think that badly behaving white people taint "the race". Yes, blacks do stereotype whites too, but the idea of "re-inforcing negative stereotypes by virtue of doing something bad" does not really exist in any pervasive way in society as far as whites are concerned.

There might sociological reasons for the crime statistics concerning blacks, but that's still no reason to throw individuality out the window. People have individual personalities. There no way that a race "acts", there are only stereotypes.

[QUOTE="shadowchronicle"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

And what are these historical reasons you speak of?

As far as I know, different members of a race act different ways.

Your second point is intellectual dishonesty on the highest level. I never stereotyped white people. I simply said that you don't ever hear people saying that the actions of whites makes the whole race look bad. Where in the world is the stereotype?

GreySeal9

I didn't say white people were not a race. I said that society doesn't tend to think that badly behaving white people taint "the race". Yes, blacks do stereotype whites too, but the idea of "re-inforcing negative stereotypes by virtue of doing something bad" does not really exist in any pervasive way in society.

There might sociological reasons for the crime statistics concerning blacks, but that's still no reason to throw individuality out the window. People have individual personalities. There no way that a race "acts", there are only stereotypes.

Also, I'd like to add that whites are not the only people that say "That criminal gives blacks a bad name." Some black people use that logic too.

I didn't say white people were not a race. I said that society doesn't tend to think that badly behaving white people taint "the race". Yes, blacks do stereotype whites too, but the idea of "re-inforcing negative stereotypes by virtue of doing something bad" does not really exist in any pervasive way in society.

There might sociological reasons for the crime statistics concerning blacks, but that's still no reason to throw individuality out the window. People have individual personalities. There no way that a race "acts", there are only stereotypes.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]It's not a double standard.

Those people are probably saying it because they are aware of the stereotypes that exist about (to go along with your example) black people.

If there were stereotypes for white people (and I am sure there are some for specific things - maybe less offensive compared to the ones about other groups of people) they'd probably say the same thing.

Also the above doesnt mean they believe those stereotypes are true - they are actually pointing out the opposite: that they are generalisations.

Teenaged

They may not believe that the stereotypes are true, but they are, in the cases I've seen, justifying the idea of collective perceptions by blaming the actions of a individual for tainting the image of a race.

I don't see how it's not a double standard. If the behavior of one or a few black people can make the whole race look bad, then of course the same things should apply to whites. The fact that the stereotypes exists and is re-inforced by the actions of some blacks (which never seems to apply to whites) is the double standard. And to blame the badly behaving individual for perpetuating it is to justify thinking collectively.

Now for those stereotypes that do exist about white people, I wouldnt be much susprised if the same phrase was said about them. Maybe in a more joking manner because white stereotypes arent as serious (in the sense that they dont claim very offensive things). At least that's what I've seen.

Perhaps you're right, but I'd say that people should (even tho they won't) drop the whole "x person makes x race look bad" logic in general. It doesn't really make sense. The people who exhibit certain behaviors make themselves look bad.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

They may not believe that the stereotypes are true, but they are, in the cases I've seen, justifying the idea of collective perceptions by blaming the actions of a individual for tainting the image of a race.

I don't see how it's not a double standard. If the behavior of one or a few black people can make the whole race look bad, then of course the same things should apply to whites. The fact that the stereotypes exists and is re-inforced by the actions of some blacks (which never seems to apply to whites) is the double standard. And to blame the badly behaving individual for perpetuating it is to justify thinking collectively.

GreySeal9

Now for those stereotypes that do exist about white people, I wouldnt be much susprised if the same phrase was said about them. Maybe in a more joking manner because white stereotypes arent as serious (in the sense that they dont claim very offensive things). At least that's what I've seen.

Perhaps you're right, but I'd say that people should (even tho they won't) drop the whole "x person makes x race look bad" logic in general. It doesn't really make sense. The people who exhibit certain behaviors make themselves look bad.

Basically I am not disagreeing with you about the whole thing being weird/stupid/way off. I am just being pedantic and disagreeing with the use of the term "double standard". :P

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="z4twenny"]O.J, Simpson, Michael Irving, Chris Brown... want more?

fueled-system

OJ Simpson got acquitted because the prosecution didn't prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The media treatment of him definitely was not light.

Chris Brown? Are you serious? Chris Brown was not given light treatment in the media. I'd really like to see some evidence of that.

I'm not familar with Michael Irving.

:| The hell are you even talking about? Do you even know what your saying? He was found beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, but he was widely demonized even after he was found innocent for his crimes.. This is alot like Michael Jackson's whole fiasco where he was painted as a child molester, even when he was found not guilty.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I didn't say white people were not a race. I said that society doesn't tend to think that badly behaving white people taint "the race". Yes, blacks do stereotype whites too, but the idea of "re-inforcing negative stereotypes by virtue of doing something bad" does not really exist in any pervasive way in society.

There might sociological reasons for the crime statistics concerning blacks, but that's still no reason to throw individuality out the window. People have individual personalities. There no way that a race "acts", there are only stereotypes.

shadowchronicle

I think that perfectly highlights why people buy into the stereotypes and what not. It's often easier to think about stereotypes than the reality of things.

[QUOTE="SirWander"]

well 60% of the people in prison are part of a racial and ethnic minority*. that probably doesn't with help with public perception; especially given the USAs history of institutionalized racism.

that said, it's pathetic for these generalizations to persist as long as they have. an individual's actions should not be held accountable by the community.

edit: let me clarify on that last part. simply because ted bundy was a serial killer, rapist, necrophiliac; it doesn't mean all white people are the same.

*source: http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=122

GreySeal9

I agree with you. There are sociological reasons that a big chunk of the prison population consists of minorities, but it doesn't help public perception of said races because alot of people refuse to get out of a collectivist mindset.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="SirWander"]

well 60% of the people in prison are part of a racial and ethnic minority*. that probably doesn't with help with public perception; especially given the USAs history of institutionalized racism.

that said, it's pathetic for these generalizations to persist as long as they have. an individual's actions should not be held accountable by the community.

edit: let me clarify on that last part. simply because ted bundy was a serial killer, rapist, necrophiliac; it doesn't mean all white people are the same.

*source: http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=122

Victorious_Fize

I agree with you. There are sociological reasons that a big chunk of the prison population consists of minorities, but it doesn't help public perception of said races because alot of people refuse to get out of a collectivist mindset.

I'm not sure what you mean. Can you rephrase this?

[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I agree with you. There are sociological reasons that a big chunk of the prison population consists of minorities, but it doesn't help public perception of said races because alot of people refuse to get out of a collectivist mindset.

GreySeal9

I'm not sure what you mean. Can you rephrase this?

That's how stereotyping works. If you have preconceived notions about a certain group, you will always find things to support that erroneous notion. It's observer bias.

[QUOTE="KiIIyou"]What people say that?GreySeal9

You've seriously never heard that?

In fact, somebody said that in that thread about the elderly man getting hit by the truck, which is what prompted me to make this thread.

Check out other threads in which a black person is doing something bad and you'll probably here the same thing.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="KiIIyou"]What people say that?DevilMightCry

You've seriously never heard that?

In fact, somebody said that in that thread about the elderly man getting hit by the truck, which is what prompted me to make this thread.

Check out other threads in which a black person is doing something bad and you'll probably here the same thing.

I actually didn't make this thread based on your title, although there was absolutely no reason to point out the kid's race and you never gave a reason. You just said "I'm pointing out a fact". So the question is: why?

Also, the bolded section of this post is pretty ignorant. You realize that there are white familes that this applies to as well, right? You realize that there is more than one type of black culture, right? You realize that not many blacks would say that those are their values, right?

What makes you think the things you listed are a large part of black culture? Do you have any evidence to back that up?

Also, you say "commit crimes" as if most black people commit crimes or something. Yeah, most people in prison are minorities, but most blacks DON'T commit crimes.

It mostly seems to be black leaders and apologists that say these things. Like Bill Cosby, and I saw something recently about a black judge who told every other ethnicity to leave his court so he could talk specifically to the black youth there and try to straighten them out. I think it's probably mostly due to the naturally collective and introverted society that black communities reverted to during the civil rights movements. Since then, there's been a concerted effort by a lot of black leaders to get special benefits and accommodations specifically for blacks. That was a huge thing during the 90s when people were still talking about black reparations for slavery and restricted rights. It's getting better over time. The people who were aware of that stuff going on, naturally had to defend and segment themselves. Many blacks and other minorities wanted to make sure they got extra benefits. Many whites wanted to make sure they weren't disadvantaged in the future. It's just the natural progression away from a racially segmented society. As long as we don't have some big race war in the near future or socially divisive leaders like many of the black leaders in the 90s, I think this kind of thinking will disappear over the next twenty years or so as a new generation so far removed from that racism grows up.guynamedbilly

Yes, many black leaders say that, but I've heard tons of white people say it as well.

I think those black leaders are doing race relations a disservice when they buy into the collective mentalities.

I thought there was a white people stereotype (well, at least where I come from) that for example in a murder act that some of those individuals will not only go for the people they want to kill, they go for innocent bystanders as well (if there are any). And black/Hispanic people usually go for the person who made them angry only. I guess by their summary that whites were crazier than blacks. I don't know there are some stories that lead up to where people could believe such things but like I said, it's nothing but stereotypes. And I can't tell you almost every time I go to a store or something I feel like I am being watched because the clerks might think I am going to steal something or start a riot. So.. it might not apply to everyone but some people still think that certain races are up to no good. Doesn't matter what race is most common in jail.. doesn't mean some white people aren't doing anything. They just probably haven't been caught yet.MistressMinako

I have heard people say that most serial killers are white, but I haven't really ever heard someone say that they make the whole race look bad.

I totally agree with your last statement in that I think simply pointing to prison statistics as if it says something about race is highly flawed.

[QUOTE="DevilMightCry"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

You've seriously never heard that?

In fact, somebody said that in that thread about the elderly man getting hit by the truck, which is what prompted me to make this thread.

Check out other threads in which a black person is doing something bad and you'll probably here the same thing.

GreySeal9

I actually didn't make this thread based on your title, although there was absolutely no reason to point out the kid's race and you never gave a reason. You just said "I'm pointing out a fact". So the question is: why?

Also, the bolded section of this post is pretty ignorant. You realize that there are white familes that this applies to as well, right? You realize that there is more than one type of black culture, right? You realize that not many blacks would say that those are their values, right?

What makes you think the things you listed are a large part of black culture? Do you have any evidence to back that up?

Also, you say "commit crimes" as if most black people commit crimes or something. Yeah, most people in prison are minorities, but most blacks DON'T commit crimes.

Your sentiments describe what the muslim community is facing on a daily basis

Nayef_shroof

Eh....I don't hear anyone say that. But then again ethnic groups that are white can be said to get the same thing. Or any other group if one is inclined to judge people on shared characteristics and not individual behavior.LJS9502_basic

So do you think it exists or not?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="DevilMightCry"] There is nothing wrong with being a black man or a woman. There is nothing in the DNA, that makes blacks commit crimes, or have an accent, or vote Democrat most of the time. What is wrong, is the culture, or a major portion of the black culture. You obviously made it an issue of the fact that I pointed out that the attacker was black or the victim. I see no issue with pointing it out. Just as if you go look for a burgler at a campus. If it was an Asian, obese female, with red heair, you'd want me to look just for a "person", because it's somehow racist or racial profiling to point it that it was an Asian, obese female, right? There is a reason why there are more blacks in jail. It's not because the white man is randomly arresting them, even if some race pimps, like Al Sharpton has you belive in that. No, they are in jail more than whites, or asians, because part of black culture, is living around parents, or in most cases a single parent, that has no time, to educate that child proper english, manners, what's right or wrong. And when you live around people like that, yoy find yourself adhere to that group or culture. DevilMightCry

I actually didn't make this thread based on your title, although there was absolutely no reason to point out the kid's race and you never gave a reason. You just said "I'm pointing out a fact". So the question is: why?

Also, the bolded section of this post is pretty ignorant. You realize that there are white familes that this applies to as well, right? You realize that there is more than one type of black culture, right? You realize that not many blacks would say that those are their values, right?

What makes you think the things you listed are a large part of black culture? Do you have any evidence to back that up?

Also, you say "commit crimes" as if most black people commit crimes or something. Yeah, most people in prison are minorities, but most blacks DON'T commit crimes.

No, I'm not making a big deal out of nothing. You're being extremely simplistic about black culture.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Eh....I don't hear anyone say that. But then again ethnic groups that are white can be said to get the same thing. Or any other group if one is inclined to judge people on shared characteristics and not individual behavior.GreySeal9

So do you think it exists or not?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="KiIIyou"]What people say that?DevilMightCry

You've seriously never heard that?

In fact, somebody said that in that thread about the elderly man getting hit by the truck, which is what prompted me to make this thread.

Check out other threads in which a black person is doing something bad and you'll probably here the same thing.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Eh....I don't hear anyone say that. But then again ethnic groups that are white can be said to get the same thing. Or any other group if one is inclined to judge people on shared characteristics and not individual behavior.LJS9502_basic

So do you think it exists or not?

So you're saying that you've never heard that said about blacks it OT (I could give you some examples), but that you have heard it said about blacks and of other races in real life?

To that, I'd say: yes, I've heard that said about all kinds of groups, but talk of re-inforcing negative stereotype mostly focuses on minorities. And some of the white groups you talk about were the object of negative stereotypes when they were minorities themselves.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

So do you think it exists or not?

GreySeal9

So you're saying that you've never heard that said about blacks it OT (I could give you some examples), but that you have heard it said about blacks and of other races in real life?

To that, I'd say: yes, I've heard that said about all kinds of groups, but talk of re-inforcing negative stereotype mostly focuses on minorities. And some of the white groups you talk about were the object of negative stereotypes when they were minorities themselves.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I said I haven't heard that said around here....but I have heard groups within the white community have that said about them. So while it might be said of other races....I can't say it's a double standard....just that the white race is more diversified a category.LJS9502_basic

So you're saying that you've never heard that said about blacks it OT (I could give you some examples), but that you have heard it said about blacks and of other races in real life?

To that, I'd say: yes, I've heard that said about all kinds of groups, but talk of re-inforcing negative stereotype mostly focuses on minorities. And some of the white groups you talk about were the object of negative stereotypes when they were minorities themselves.

I don't deny that. Yes, stereotyping happens at all levels, and I'm not saying that any group is immune to stereotyping. What I am saying is that the idea of individuals re-inforcing a negative stereotype of a group seems to be more pervasive in society in regards to minorities.

If I had a nickle for everytime I've heard someone look at a news story involving black people engaging in bad behavior and say, "See, these people make the whole race look bad," I'd be able to atleast buy a videogame.

People also seem to think rappers somehow make the whole black race look bad instead of keeping in mind that hip hop culture is just its own little subculture within the black community.

I don't deny that. Yes, stereotyping happens at all levels, and I'm not saying that any group is immune to stereotyping. What I am saying is that the idea of individuals re-inforcing a negative stereotype of a group seems to be more pervasive in society in regards to minorities.

If I had a nickle for everytime I've heard someone look at a news story involving black people engaging in bad behavior and say, "See, these people make the whole race look bad," I'd be able to atleast buy a videogame.

People also seem to think rappers somehow make the whole black race look bad instead of keeping in mind that hip hop culture is just its own little subculture within the black community.

GreySeal9

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I don't deny that. Yes, stereotyping happens at all levels, and I'm not saying that any group is immune to stereotyping. What I am saying is that the idea of individuals re-inforcing a negative stereotype of a group seems to be more pervasive in society in regards to minorities.

If I had a nickle for everytime I've heard someone look at a news story involving black people engaging in bad behavior and say, "See, these people make the whole race look bad," I'd be able to atleast buy a videogame.

People also seem to think rappers somehow make the whole black race look bad instead of keeping in mind that hip hop culture is just its own little subculture within the black community.

LJS9502_basic

As for the bolded, I think you make a good and valuable point, but i think that's a contributing factor among others, and some of those other factors are a byproduct of our history in regards to racial relations.

Yeah, people did always say that rock was making the youth look bad, but I don't know of any instance in which people have said rock makes whites look bad. There was some racial stuff in regards to black rock artists tho.

And now that I think about it, there was a little bit of an attitude that the British rock scene somehow reflected on the British. Elvis peddled something like that I think.