America being based on Religious Principles good or bad?

I am leaning towards good, why?

because it has worked for a couple hundred years, and the only downfall i can see is America straying away from it.

im not sure why anyone would want to change it? sure when people think Religion they think God and such, but this is different, this is laws we live by, which works

Plus its not like we have holy wars and demand people to pick a religion...

im not sure why anyone would want to change it? sure when people think Religion they think God and such, but this is different, this is laws we live by, which works

cee1gee

Since when was the USA founded directly on religious principles? :?_en1gma_

[QUOTE="_en1gma_"]Since when was the USA founded directly on religious principles? :?cee1gee

I don't think that concepts like "murder is bad" and "don't steal" are exclusive to religion.

[QUOTE="cee1gee"][QUOTE="_en1gma_"]Since when was the USA founded directly on religious principles? :?_en1gma_

[QUOTE="_en1gma_"][QUOTE="cee1gee"] when the pilgrims camecee1gee

"...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

- Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, ratified by unanimous vote in the Senate, signed by President John Adams

That's two branches of government against one; majority rules. :P

I think its bad. A country should be based on fair principles, not on principles written in a book that bears little resemblance to how a modern society should function.Bourbons3

[QUOTE="cee1gee"][QUOTE="_en1gma_"] Uhhh...no?GabuEx

"...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

- Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, ratified by unanimous vote in the Senate, signed by President John Adams

That's two branches of government against one; majority rules. :P

[QUOTE="cee1gee"][QUOTE="_en1gma_"] Uhhh...no?GabuEx

"...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

- Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, ratified by unanimous vote in the Senate, signed by President John Adams

That's two branches of government against one; majority rules. :P

haha is that cause i said majority rules in another thread lolcee1gee

I don't know what you're referring to.

While making certain not to endorse any denomination of religion over another, the founders of this nation made it emphatically clear that the principles upon which this Nation was built are based squarely upon the Bible.cee1gee

Which founders were these, out of curiosity?

[QUOTE="cee1gee"][QUOTE="_en1gma_"] Uhhh...no?GabuEx

"...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

- Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, ratified by unanimous vote in the Senate, signed by President John Adams

That's two branches of government against one; majority rules. :P

Not founded on the Christian religion, but that's different than being emphatically Christian. Many of the pinciples of Christianity were used in the founding of the nation.

[QUOTE="cee1gee"] haha is that cause i said majority rules in another thread lolGabuEx

I don't know what you're referring to.

While making certain not to endorse any denomination of religion over another, the founders of this nation made it emphatically clear that the principles upon which this Nation was built are based squarely upon the Bible.cee1gee

Which founders were these, out of curiosity?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="cee1gee"] "Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian." - United States Supreme Court, 1892.gamerlifegrace

"...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

- Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, ratified by unanimous vote in the Senate, signed by President John Adams

That's two branches of government against one; majority rules. :P

Actually, youre wrong. Christianity through time has found its princilples and morals not only in the government, but also in our everyday lives.gamerlifegrace

You're going to have to take that up with Founding Father John Adams. :P

The U.S. Constitution established a republic under God, rather than a democracy. So how is it not based on Religious principles?cee1gee

"The founders of this nation made it emphatically clear that the principles upon which this Nation was built are based squarely upon the Bible."

Name these founders first.

The U.S. Constitution established a republic under God, rather than a democracy. So how is it not based on Religious principles?cee1gee

but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.US Constitution Article 6

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

"...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

- Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, ratified by unanimous vote in the Senate, signed by President John Adams

That's two branches of government against one; majority rules. :P

Rocky32189

[QUOTE="cee1gee"]The U.S. Constitution established a republic under God, rather than a democracy. So how is it not based on Religious principles?GabuEx

"The founders of this nation made it emphatically clear that the principles upon which this Nation was built are based squarely upon the Bible."

Name these founders first.

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"]Actually, youre wrong. Christianity through time has found its princilples and morals not only in the government, but also in our everyday lives.GabuEx

You're going to have to take that up with Founding Father John Adams. :P

I could care less what he said. Many things were said in the constitution such as "all men are created equal", but they still had slavery back then.

[QUOTE="Bourbons3"]I think its bad. A country should be based on fair principles, not on principles written in a book that bears little resemblance to how a modern society should function.cee1gee

[QUOTE="Hewkii"]

[QUOTE="cee1gee"] [QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"]Actually, youre wrong. Christianity through time has found its princilples and morals not only in the government, but also in our everyday lives.gamerlifegrace

You're going to have to take that up with Founding Father John Adams. :P

What was valid BACK THEN is not necessary valid now.

I could care less what he said. Many things were said in the constitution. "All men are created equal", but they still had slavery back then.gamerlifegrace

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"]I could care less what he said. Many things were said in the constitution. "All men are created equal", but they still had slavery back then.Hewkii

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"][QUOTE="Hewkii"]

You're going to have to take that up with Founding Father John Adams. :P

What was valid BACK THEN is not necessary valid now.

[QUOTE="cee1gee"][QUOTE="Bourbons3"]I think its bad. A country should be based on fair principles, not on principles written in a book that bears little resemblance to how a modern society should function.Bourbons3

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"] I could care less what he said. Many things were said in the constitution. "All men are created equal", but they still had slavery back then.gamerlifegrace

What was valid BACK THEN is not necessary valid now.

I am applying your logic to what you advocate.

That millenia old guidelines should be the "backbone" of a country. Even in case it once was the case doesnt mean that its the case now, IN PRACTICE.

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]I think you answered your question...

What was valid BACK THEN is not necessary valid now.

Teenaged

I am applying your logic to what you advocate.

That millenia old guidelines should be the "backbone" of a country. Even in case it once was the case doesnt mean that its the case now, IN PRACTICE.

[QUOTE="Bourbons3"][QUOTE="cee1gee"] Whats not fair?cee1gee

This means absolutely nothing and shouldnt matter.

What would we say to women seeking equal rights? "What??? Voting???? Be thankful that we dont hang you when you are cheating and that we dont have you cover your entire bodies like they do in other countries" :|

[QUOTE="cee1gee"][QUOTE="Bourbons3"]I think its bad. A country should be based on fair principles, not on principles written in a book that bears little resemblance to how a modern society should function.Bourbons3

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="gamerlifegrace"] Huh?? I dont get what you are saying... You cant even agree that their system was flawed when they wrote it BACK THEN???cee1gee

I am applying your logic to what you advocate.

That millenia old guidelines should be the "backbone" of a country. Even in case it once was the case doesnt mean that its the case now, IN PRACTICE.

Merely because its formation was influenced by religion doesnt mean that religion is the alpha and the omega. It hardly is.

The First Amendment was clearly understood and explained by the man who wrote it and the man who first applied it as law. Fisher Ames wrote the First Amendment. He also wrote that the Bible should always remain the principle text book in America's classrooms. John Jay, original Chief-Justice U.S. Supreme Court, said it is the duty of all wise, free, and virtuous governments to help and encourage virtue and religion That is 1 of the founderscee1gee

OK, that's two. Here are some other founders you might know:

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind."

- Thomas Paine

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

- James Madison

"Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, 'this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.'"

- John Adams

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

- Thomas Jefferson

"My parents had given me betimes religious impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself."

- Benjamin Franklin

"Denominated a Deist, the reality of which I have never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian."

- Ethan Allen

If nothing else, it should be painfully evident that the founding fathers, on balance, had no love whatsoever for organized religion. While they did praise certain Christian principles, these were principles such as "love your neighbor" and "you shall not murder" - principles that it could scarcely be claimed were unique to Christianity. I would wager that they would wholeheartedly agree with Mahatma Gandhi when he said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

[QUOTE="cee1gee"]The First Amendment was clearly understood and explained by the man who wrote it and the man who first applied it as law. Fisher Ames wrote the First Amendment. He also wrote that the Bible should always remain the principle text book in America's classrooms. John Jay, original Chief-Justice U.S. Supreme Court, said it is the duty of all wise, free, and virtuous governments to help and encourage virtue and religion That is 1 of the foundersGabuEx

OK, that's two. Here are some other founders you might know:

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind."

- Thomas Paine

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

- James Madison

"Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, 'this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.'"

- John Adams

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

- Thomas Jefferson

"My parents had given me betimes religious impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself."

- Benjamin Franklin

"Denominated a Deist, the reality of which I have never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian."

- Ethan Allen

If nothing else, it should be painfully evident that the founding fathers, on balance, had no lover whatsoever for organized religion. While they did praise certain Christian principles, these were principles such as "love your neighbor" and "you shall not murder" - principles that it could scarcely be claimed were unique to Christianity. I would wager that they would wholeheartedly agree with Mahatma Gandhi when he said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

bad = Prop. 8 = law based on religious principles

bad = law based on religious principles

sure some were deists but the laws itself were based on it no?cee1gee

There is nothing I am aware of that is unique to Christianity that is enshrined in any foundation of American law.

First written accounts of laws... Thou Shalt not commit adultry... 1000 BC and further (Bible) Thou shalt not bear fals wintess against thy neighbor 1000 BC and further (Bible) Abortion (even though it is debated, it's by laws come from a Christian question that is debated)

gamerlifegrace

The Code of Hammurabi is given credit as the first written account of laws. It was created around 1790 BC.

The First Amendment was clearly understood and explained by the man who wrote it and the man who first applied it as law. Fisher Ames wrote the First Amendment. He also wrote that the Bible should always remain the principle text book in America's classrooms. John Jay, original Chief-Justice U.S. Supreme Court, said it is the duty of all wise, free, and virtuous governments to help and encourage virtue and religion That is 1 of the founderscee1gee

The First Amendment was written by James Madison (he proposed the Ten Amendments we know as the Bill of Rights), who wasnot a Christian. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." -James Madison

Many of the Founding Fathers were deists and not Christians. Thomas Jefferson (who authored the Declaration of Independence), George Washington, James Madison, and Benjamin Franklinwere deists.

I believe that the Founding Fathers made it very clear the the United States is not founded upon Christianity, especially since they officially denied it in the Treaty of Tripoli.

[QUOTE="Bourbons3"][QUOTE="cee1gee"] Whats not fair?Darth-Caedus

/sarcasm