American soldier killed for his atheism in Texas.

[QUOTE="MissLibrarian"][QUOTE="DigitalExile"]I dunno.

LJS9502_basic

It just shows how f***** up these damn religious people are. Christians, catholics, the lot of them. They're just zealots. They go against they're very own code, what ever happened to "Thous shalt not kill"? The damn loonatics. This guy was killed for believing something that is the truth, at least he was not a sheep like they were. The christians haven't changed one bit since the dark ages, still revelling in the death of those who don't believe in their "god".

This is why my least favorite state is Texas, it seems like nut jobs gather there.

well it is texas.... they are the dumbest state in the country for a reason.

hint: that reason is not because they make educated decisions.

Just another thing to add to my list of reasons why I'm embarrassed to live in such a place. I honestly don't belong here. While there are good folk here and there, the majority of these people are over their heads. But anyways, how is it that these threads turn into such hellholes (so to speak)? The man who killed him was an idiot with the wrong views, that's that. Not all Christians/Atheists are extremists. Christ. KineticKyote

i see you put a slash there for atheist extremists... but, is there a such thing as atheist extremists?

[QUOTE="KineticKyote"]Just another thing to add to my list of reasons why I'm embarrassed to live in such a place. I honestly don't belong here. While there are good folk here and there, the majority of these people are over their heads. But anyways, how is it that these threads turn into such hellholes (so to speak)? The man who killed him was an idiot with the wrong views, that's that. Not all Christians/Atheists are extremists. Christ. SauceKing

i see you put a slash there for atheist extremists... but, is there a such thing as atheist extremists?

Seems to me people are using this guys death as an ideology instead of genuinely feeling sorry it happened :|

Lord have mercy that this happened, but this just goes to show one thing, Christians are not perfect.

[QUOTE="SauceKing"]

[QUOTE="KineticKyote"]Just another thing to add to my list of reasons why I'm embarrassed to live in such a place. I honestly don't belong here. While there are good folk here and there, the majority of these people are over their heads. But anyways, how is it that these threads turn into such hellholes (so to speak)? The man who killed him was an idiot with the wrong views, that's that. Not all Christians/Atheists are extremists. Christ. KineticKyote

i see you put a slash there for atheist extremists... but, is there a such thing as atheist extremists?

but the heart of atheism is human logic over following old scrolls. I guess every movement has extremists... but i cant imagine atheism has extremeists even remotely on the same level as organized religion.

but the heart of atheism is human logic over following old scrolls. I guess every movement has extremists... but i cant imagine atheism has extremeists even remotely on the same level as organized religion.

SauceKing

Did you miss russian history? Communist russia which rigouresly enforced state atheism and threw many religious people into prison and executed many religious leaders, monks and followers? Atheists can be just as brutal becuase you know why? They are human.

If you actually read the article the whole "killed for his atheism" headline is very sensationlist.

Read this: "Brittany Green allegedly told authorities that her brother said he had shot Ramirez twice because he "did not believe in God and alleged that Ramirez reached for a gun," the complaint said."

That's basically the only mention of religion in the article and it's based on a filmsy allegation.

[QUOTE="SauceKing"]

but the heart of atheism is human logic over following old scrolls. I guess every movement has extremists... but i cant imagine atheism has extremeists even remotely on the same level as organized religion.

Philokalia

Did you miss russian history? Communist russia which rigouresly enforced state atheism and threw and executed many religious leaders, monks and followers? Atheists can be just as brutal becuase you know why? They are human.

well its kind of a stupid argument to blame religion for the actions of dictators... otherwise christians are responsible for the holocausts.

well its kind of a stupid argument to blame religion for the actions of dictators... otherwise christians are responsible for the holocausts.

SauceKing

I don't know how the holocaust was something Christians are responsible for something committed by nazis. See when we go around trying to find the causes of things we need to be careful in how read our conclusions. Does Christianity influence people to violence? It can it seems, though this violence is misplaced when we read the teachings of Christ and the apostles and the tradition of the fathers that we might learn how we ought to be Christians. Did atheism influence the communist leaders? Implicitely I think so, atheism holds no doctrines as to morality and while individual atheists may feel that what the communists did was wrong (and it was wrong), that isn't to say neccessarily that atheism did not play a part in the communist russians thinking on this issue. But bottomline my point was to demonstrate that atheists can be just as brutal asany believer in Godwhich they have been through any reasonable analysis of history.

[QUOTE="SauceKing"]

well its kind of a stupid argument to blame religion for the actions of dictators... otherwise christians are responsible for the holocausts.

Philokalia

I don't know how the holocaust was something Christians are responsible for something committed by nazis. See when we go around trying to find the causes of things we need to be careful in how read our conclusions. Does Christianity influence people to violence? It can it seems, though this violence is misplaced when we read the teachings of Christ and the apostles and the tradition of the fathers that we might learn how we ought to be Christians. Did atheism influence the communist leaders? Implicitely I think so, atheism holds no doctrines as to morality and while individual atheists may feel that what the communists did was wrong (and it was wrong), that isn't to say neccessarily that atheism did not play a part in the communist russians thinking on this issue. But bottomline my point was to demonstrate that atheists can be just as brutal asany believer in Godwhich they have been through any reasonable analysis of history.

it is far easier to get inspired to action by religion, since there is a sense of righteousness and often a sense of persecution (i'm looking at you Philo). Atheism is always subsumed to another ideology (i.e.communism) since, as yousay, there is no inherrnet morality or doctrine to justify with it. You were saying you need to be careful how to read conclusions, but you are not doing what you say.

Shall not kill, shall not judge the neighbor.

OK.

[QUOTE="SauceKing"]

well its kind of a stupid argument to blame religion for the actions of dictators... otherwise christians are responsible for the holocausts.

Philokalia

I don't know how the holocaust was something Christians are responsible for something committed by nazis. See when we go around trying to find the causes of things we need to be careful in how read our conclusions. Does Christianity influence people to violence? It can it seems, though this violence is misplaced when we read the teachings of Christ and the apostles and the tradition of the fathers that we might learn how we ought to be Christians. Did atheism influence the communist leaders? Implicitely I think so, atheism holds no doctrines as to morality and while individual atheists may feel that what the communists did was wrong (and it was wrong), that isn't to say neccessarily that atheism did not play a part in the communist russians thinking on this issue. But bottomline my point was to demonstrate that atheists can be just as brutal asany believer in Godwhich they have been through any reasonable analysis of history.

hitler was a christian, and christianity formed his views. Implicity i think so.

so by your logic, christians are responsible for the holocausts.

George bush is a christian and started the wars in iraq and afghanistan... so thats christian too then by your logic.

If this is the logic you are going to use, you need to accept the results.

it is far easier to get inspired to action by religion, since there is a sense of righteousness and often a sense of persecution (i'm looking at you Philo). Atheism is always subsumed to another ideology (i.e.communism) since, as yousay, there is no inherrnet morality or doctrine to justify with it. You were saying you need to be careful how to read conclusions, but you are not doing what you say.

RationalAtheist

Anyone can feel persecuted, it doesn't take much, it seems in todays society where there are real persecutions taking place in the world. IE the persecution agains the copts in egypt, the Bahai and Christians in Iraq and iran and much of hte islamic world. Christian women in the middle east being terrorist targets for groups like Boko Haram and the like, that many liberal groups would think there is a more pressing perseuction against gays and anyone of the like.Now Its nice you think of me as being persecuted here, though I'm not. It simply seems that the dominant attitude of alot of people who dissagree with me is to digress the discussion into personal attacks and make the subject on me rather than that of the thing at hand. Though I could care less as to what people on the internet do, though it is fun to point out (via my signature) the attitudes of those on the left and atheists for the world to see. Now I suppose I should have clarified, in atheism there is no morality to condemn it either. You have to rely on a seperate standard by which morality can come from and it would seem perfectly justified to me that atheists (and I have met many already and it seemed the communists of russia thought this way) that there is no morality period and what mattered was society and they found it perfectly acceptable to persecute Christians of russia in doing so.

hitler was a christian, and christianity formed his views. Implicity i think so.

so by your logic, christians are responsible for the holocausts.

George bush is a christian and started the wars in iraq and afghanistan... so thats christian too then by your logic.

If this is the logic you are going to use, you need to accept the results.

SauceKing

I have my doubts as to whether hitler wasa Christian, it seems we might not know what he truely believed. Yes he made many public announcments of his supposed Christianity, but considering much of the population was germany and Hitler wanted their support, its not too much of stretch to say he lied about it.But regardless as to whether or not he was or was not, it seems he was not doing as Christ commanded, he was going against that teaching to enforce a politicaly agenda. Now you probably did not understand what I said, so I will clarify. People may be inspired by the religion, but that doesn't mean they are truely following it or putting it into practice. Christians sin, Christians commit evil. Is this a shock to anyone? No it isn't.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

it is far easier to get inspired to action by religion, since there is a sense of righteousness and often a sense of persecution (i'm looking at you Philo). Atheism is always subsumed to another ideology (i.e.communism) since, as yousay, there is no inherrnet morality or doctrine to justify with it. You were saying you need to be careful how to read conclusions, but you are not doing what you say.

Philokalia

Anyone can feel persecuted, it doesn't take much, it seems in todays society where there are real persecutions taking place in the world. IE the persecution agains the copts in egypt, the Bahai and Christians in Iraq and iran and much of hte islamic world. Christian women in the middle east being terrorist targets for groups like Boko Haram and the like, that many liberal groups would think there is a more pressing perseuction against gays and anyone of the like.Now Its nice you think of me as being persecuted here, though I'm not. It simply seems that the dominant attitude of alot of people who dissagree with me is to digress the discussion into personal attacks and make the subject on me rather than that of the thing at hand. Though I could care less as to what people on the internet do, though it is fun to point out (via my signature) the attitudes of those on the left and atheists for the world to see. Now I suppose I should have clarified, in atheism there is no morality to condemn it either. You have to rely on a seperate standard by which morality can come from and it would seem perfectly justified to me that atheists (and I have met many already and it seemed the communists of russia thought this way) that there is no morality period and what mattered was society and they found it perfectly acceptable to persecute Christians of russia in doing so.

In Nigeria, where Boko Haram are, Christian attacks against Muslims are a common occurrence and are typicall retalliation against their attacks.

Being offended and feeling persecuted are easy things to do - as you prove yourself here on a daily basis. There is limited use in retaining those personal ideas, unless your life is at risk.

Morality comes from people - it existed before religions and is used for basic social trasactions.

Stalin asked the Christian church to help him repel the Nazis in 1942, so I think you need some modern history lessons.

Texas is an interesting place to say the least.

[QUOTE="SauceKing"]

hitler was a christian, and christianity formed his views. Implicity i think so.

so by your logic, christians are responsible for the holocausts.

George bush is a christian and started the wars in iraq and afghanistan... so thats christian too then by your logic.

If this is the logic you are going to use, you need to accept the results.

Philokalia

I have my doubts as to whether hitler wasa Christian, it seems we might not know what he truely believed. Yes he made many public announcments of his supposed Christianity, but considering much of the population was germany and Hitler wanted their support, its not too much of stretch to say he lied about it.But regardless as to whether or not he was or was not, it seems he was not doing as Christ commanded, he was going against that teaching to enforce a politicaly agenda. Now you probably did not understand what I said, so I will clarify. People may be inspired by the religion, but that doesn't mean they are truely following it or putting it into practice. Christians sin, Christians commit evil. Is this a shock to anyone? No it isn't.

No i think my tiny brain understands you.

So atrocities commited by religious figures claiming a religion are because of other reasons, but atrocities commited by atheist figures are because of their atheism.

I get it it totally now... there is a huge double standard against atheists.

No i think my tiny brain understands you.

So atrocities commited by religious figures claiming a religion are because of other reasons, but atrocities commited by atheist figures are because of their atheism.

I get it it totally now... there is a huge double standard against atheists.

SauceKing

Sigh, no not really. Atheism doesn't hold to any sort of morality period, hence it doesn't object or say anyone who believes God does not exist should do a thing. Its just state a statement. This does have an influence on people, judging on the actions of the soviets and many atheists whom I have talked to about this.

But I should be clear, most atheists are sane enough to recognise morality. Some however are not and those are the dangerous ones.

Sigh, no not really. Atheism doesn't hold to any sort of morality period, hence it doesn't object or say anyone who believes God does not exist should do a thing. Its just state a statement. This does have an influence on people, judging on the actions of the soviets and many atheists whom I have talked to about this.

But I should be clear, most atheists are sane enough to recognise morality. Some however are not and those are the dangerous ones.

Philokalia

How does that differentiate with the religious, who also feel quite ree to commit atrocities in the name of all sorts of religions?

How do you spot a dangerous theist?

How does that differentiate with the religious, who also feel quite ree to commit atrocities in the name of all sorts of religions?

How do you spot a dangerous theist?

RationalAtheist

Religious can be evil. Theists can commit evil. :| Religion isn't some sort of belief system which must universally be good, I believe there are bad religions out there. Like Islam. I can however only speak in defense of Christianity and those who might claim a loyalty to the teachings their in which are very clear, do not murder. This is bore witness by the Saints who have carried on the faith for two thousand years.

[QUOTE="SauceKing"]

No i think my tiny brain understands you.

So atrocities commited by religious figures claiming a religion are because of other reasons, but atrocities commited by atheist figures are because of their atheism.

I get it it totally now... there is a huge double standard against atheists.

Philokalia

Sigh, no not really. Atheism doesn't hold to any sort of morality period, hence it doesn't object or say anyone who believes God does not exist should do a thing. Its just state a statement. This does have an influence on people, judging on the actions of the soviets and many atheists whom I have talked to about this.

But I should be clear, most atheists are sane enough to recognise morality. Some however are not and those are the dangerous ones.

sigh yes really, science and evolution have proven the existence of "morality" on the brain.... as is necessary for natural selection. Because a species that murders itself more than it reproduces, cannot exist. So in order for our species to thrive we need a built in sense of morality... not from religion.... as religion was created hundreds of thousands of years later.

morality is part of the right temporo-parietal junction.... its part of human existance.

religion is a means of overriding that brain function to justify killing people.... which we are naturally biologically against as a species.

sigh yes really, science and evolution have proven the existence of "morality" on the brain.... as is necessary for natural selection. Because a species that murders itself more than it reproduces, cannot exist. So in order for our species to thrive we need a built in sense of morality... not from religion.... as religion was created hundreds of thousands of years later.

morality is part of the right temporo-parietal junction.... its part of human existance.

religion is a means of overriding that brain function to justify killing people.... which we are biologically against.

SauceKing

I wouldn't consider that morality then, just a mechanism to help us survive and nothing more. No more meanginful than having four fingers and thumb. It just is. But I do not think morality has its source in religion. That would be a mistake for any Christian to make. But you suggest religion isa means created by the brain to justify killing people. Are you suggestin that it is not right to kill in any circumstance even if it helps you survive?

Religious can be evil. Theists can commit evil. :| Religion isn't some sort of belief system which must universally be good, I believe there are bad religions out there. Like Islam. I can however only speak in defense of Christianity and those who might claim a loyalty to the teachings their in which are very clear, do not murder. This is bore witness by the Saints who have carried on the faith for two thousand years.

Philokalia

So your point about atheism being a moral vacuum has no basis, since religions (except for your own one of course) can also be moral vacuums.

There is a rather bizarre criteria for selecting saints, isn't there?

So your point about atheism being a moral vacuum has no basis, since religions (except for your own one of course) can also be moral vacuums.

There is a rather bizarre criteria for selecting saints, isn't there?

RationalAtheist

Indeed religions can be a source of evil, even if they believe they are doing something truely Good. But this doesn't therefore mean my statements about atheism are false. Atheism can logically lead one to believe there is no morality. Surely you wouldn't suggest atheism supports a moral system?

[QUOTE="PolygonBust"][QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]stay classy christianscheese_game619

[QUOTE="SauceKing"]

sigh yes really, science and evolution have proven the existence of "morality" on the brain.... as is necessary for natural selection. Because a species that murders itself more than it reproduces, cannot exist. So in order for our species to thrive we need a built in sense of morality... not from religion.... as religion was created hundreds of thousands of years later.

morality is part of the right temporo-parietal junction.... its part of human existance.

religion is a means of overriding that brain function to justify killing people.... which we are biologically against.

Philokalia

I wouldn't consider that morality then, just a mechanism to help us survive and nothing more. No more meanginful than having four fingers and thumb. It just is. But I do not think morality has its source in religion. That would be a mistake for any Christian to make. But you suggest religion isa means created by the brain to justify killing people. Are you suggestin that it is not right to kill in any circumstance even if it helps you survive?

yea its a mechanism for survival.... as the survival of the species requires a built in desire to not murder each other.

i dont think the sole purpose of religion is to murder people... its a natural reaction of the human brain to deal with its knowledge of its inevitable death. As we are the only species that know we will eventually die... and electromagnetic stimulation of our temporal lobes have been scientiffically proven to induce "spiritual events"

when you know your are gonna die... that leaves a giant gap for charlatans to fill the void and makeup the "afterlife"

and thats when religions, will trick you into committing horrible atrocitites.

yea its a mechanism for survival.... as the survival of the species requires a built in desire to not murder each other.

i dont think the sole purpose of religion is to murder people... its a natural reaction of the human brain to deal with its knowledge of its inevitable death. As we are the only species that know we will eventually die... and electromagnetic stimulation of our temporal lobes have been scientiffically proven to induce "spiritual events"

when you know your are gonna die... that leaves a giant gap for charlatans to fill the void and makeup the "afterlife"

SauceKing

So Religion is derived from evolution right?

And what is Good is what helps us survive right?

Therefore religion is Good right because it helps us survive?

This is why I prefer good not being redefined to simply human flourishing.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

So your point about atheism being a moral vacuum has no basis, since religions (except for your own one of course) can also be moral vacuums.

There is a rather bizarre criteria for selecting saints, isn't there?

Philokalia

Indeed religions can be a source of evil, even if they believe they are doing something truely Good. But this doesn't therefore mean my statements about atheism are false. Atheism can logically lead one to believe there is no morality. Surely you wouldn't suggest atheism supports a moral system?

Morality exists outside of theism (and atheism).

Relgions use morality and worse - even claim it - to enforce their often bigoted and blinkered views without justification.

Morality exists outside of theism (and atheism).

Relgions use morality and worse - even claim it - to enforce their often bigoted and blinkered views without justification.

RationalAtheist

Aye, morality does lie outside of the religion, though I believe the religion can offer correct guidance as to it. And there is justification, just not justification you accept. Not that I accept any attempt by atheists to justify morality either mind you.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Morality exists outside of theism (and atheism).

Relgions use morality and worse - even claim it - to enforce their often bigoted and blinkered views without justification.

Philokalia

Aye, morality does lie outside of the religion, though I believe the religion can offer correct guidance as to it. And there is justification, just not justification you accept. Not that I accept any attempt by atheists to justify morality either mind you.

You just did accept my argument the morality exists outside of religion though.

Your refusal to accept things based on who says them shows that people are more compelling to you than ideas.

GameSpot has become so horrible WTF, people keep attacking eachothers on these kind of forums and there's no one doing anything about it...I bet they're not even paying attention. Everyone got grouped up so quickly and judgement came shortly after, Christians vs Atheists like we're not all humans (sorry if it's getting kinda cliche lol). I just want to know, has GameSpot gotten overfilled with 11 year-olds or is there still a shred of hope?colibriosis

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]

[QUOTE="SauceKing"]

well its kind of a stupid argument to blame religion for the actions of dictators... otherwise christians are responsible for the holocausts.

SauceKing

I don't know how the holocaust was something Christians are responsible for something committed by nazis. See when we go around trying to find the causes of things we need to be careful in how read our conclusions. Does Christianity influence people to violence? It can it seems, though this violence is misplaced when we read the teachings of Christ and the apostles and the tradition of the fathers that we might learn how we ought to be Christians. Did atheism influence the communist leaders? Implicitely I think so, atheism holds no doctrines as to morality and while individual atheists may feel that what the communists did was wrong (and it was wrong), that isn't to say neccessarily that atheism did not play a part in the communist russians thinking on this issue. But bottomline my point was to demonstrate that atheists can be just as brutal asany believer in Godwhich they have been through any reasonable analysis of history.

hitler was a christian, and christianity formed his views. Implicity i think so.

so by your logic, christians are responsible for the holocausts.

George bush is a christian and started the wars in iraq and afghanistan... so thats christian too then by your logic.

If this is the logic you are going to use, you need to accept the results.

stay classy christians

almasdeathchild

well derp, you keep that shyt on the down low.

i have no doubt whatsoever if my beliefs were known my family would disown me and none of my clients would do business with me and i would lose everything.

[QUOTE="cheese_game619"][QUOTE="PolygonBust"]Yeah man, because atheists are so classy.themajormayor

I dunno, there seems to be a lot more to this story than the title OP. I'm sure being an atheist was not the primary cause here.PS2_ROCKS

"Brittany Green allegedly told authorities that her brother said he had shot Ramirez twice because he "did not believe in God and alleged that Ramirez reached for a gun," the complaint said."

This could just be made up, but it is possible that Green's brother and the soldier (Ramirez) had a discussion about God which turned into an argument and Green's brother thought Ramirez was reaching for a gun.

Hopefully the court can figure this all ought. What a tragedy.

I don't understand why it has to be specifically pointed out that this happened in Texas, perpetuating stereotypes is fun I guess.meetroid8

That's terrible.