Amnesty: Canada 'required' to arrest George W. Bush

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rastotm

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#151 rastotm
Member since 2011 • 1380 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Quite frankly it's insulting to even suggest that a President should be above reproach.

surrealnumber5

I think the president should be subject to trials and that goes for Obama aswell. Hell the vast majority of politicians are criminals..

cool then give them a trial and send them to jail, there is not a single thing that places a politicians life over that of anyone else, if anything as public servants they have more social responsibility than your average Joe



The very social responsibility that pressured them to do such acts.

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surrealnumber5

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#152 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

I think the president should be subject to trials and that goes for Obama aswell. Hell the vast majority of politicians are criminals..

rastotm

cool then give them a trial and send them to jail, there is not a single thing that places a politicians life over that of anyone else, if anything as public servants they have more social responsibility than your average Joe



The very social responsibility that pressured them to do such acts.

i did not know being socially responsible was criminal.

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Ace6301

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#153 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

I think the president should be subject to trials and that goes for Obama aswell. Hell the vast majority of politicians are criminals..

rastotm

cool then give them a trial and send them to jail, there is not a single thing that places a politicians life over that of anyone else, if anything as public servants they have more social responsibility than your average Joe



The very social responsibility that pressured them to do such acts.

Some men can't make the hard choices when they need to be made. Instead they opt for what's easy and safe. Oddly these sorts tend to be the ones who end up as leaders. Probably because most of us are scared that we may be on the chopping block for what we believe in.
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rastotm

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#154 rastotm
Member since 2011 • 1380 Posts

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] cool then give them a trial and send them to jail, there is not a single thing that places a politicians life over that of anyone else, if anything as public servants they have more social responsibility than your average Joe

surrealnumber5



The very social responsibility that pressured them to do such acts.

i did not know being socially responsible was criminal.



Yea virtually no american citizens wanted that war and even less people desired punishment of the terrorists......

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LJS9502_basic

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#155 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180096 Posts
Amnesty International has no legal standing...meh.
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rastotm

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#156 rastotm
Member since 2011 • 1380 Posts

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] cool then give them a trial and send them to jail, there is not a single thing that places a politicians life over that of anyone else, if anything as public servants they have more social responsibility than your average Joe

Ace6301



The very social responsibility that pressured them to do such acts.

Some men can't make the hard choices when they need to be made. Instead they opt for what's easy and safe. Oddly these sorts tend to be the ones who end up as leaders. Probably because most of us are scared that we may be on the chopping block for what we believe in.



Don't ever underestiminate the politics, especially in America, in this case:
Failing to catch the terrorists -> welcome to the chopping block
Getting caught with torturing -> welcome to the chopping block

It's a risk ~ reward question here, consider that at the time no American citizen cared about the 'life circumstances' of terrorists/suspects.
He could have gotten a Yes on a 'to torture or not to torture' referendum easily, thank god he refrained from pressuring the avarage citizen with morally difficult questions like this one.

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Ace6301

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#157 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="rastotm"]

The very social responsibility that pressured them to do such acts.

rastotm

Some men can't make the hard choices when they need to be made. Instead they opt for what's easy and safe. Oddly these sorts tend to be the ones who end up as leaders. Probably because most of us are scared that we may be on the chopping block for what we believe in.



Don't ever underestiminate the politics, especially in America, in this case:
Failing to catch the terrorists -> welcome to the chopping block
Getting caught with torturing -> welcome to the chopping block

It's a risk ~ reward question here, consider that at the time no American citizen cared about the 'life circumstances' of terrorists/suspects.
He could have gotten a Yes on a 'to torture or not to torture' referendum easily, thank god he refrained from pressuring the avarage citizen with morally difficult questions like this one.

"most of us" would be the voting public. Many don't want to think that they too could be killed just for living the life they do so they'd rather vote in someone who would go after the big bad terrorists. Also apparently being caught with torturing isn't putting your head on the chopping blocks in Bush's case because nothing has nor will come of it. Failing to catch terrorists also didn't have an effect on him since he got two terms despite failing to catch Osama. I'm saying that the US, and sadly the rest of the western world, is willing to give up pretty large amounts of freedom for the illusion of safety. I say illusion because things like the TSA haven't actually had any positive effect yet.
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rastotm

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#158 rastotm
Member since 2011 • 1380 Posts

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"] Some men can't make the hard choices when they need to be made. Instead they opt for what's easy and safe. Oddly these sorts tend to be the ones who end up as leaders. Probably because most of us are scared that we may be on the chopping block for what we believe in. Ace6301



Don't ever underestiminate the politics, especially in America, in this case:
Failing to catch the terrorists -> welcome to the chopping block
Getting caught with torturing -> welcome to the chopping block

It's a risk ~ reward question here, consider that at the time no American citizen cared about the 'life circumstances' of terrorists/suspects.
He could have gotten a Yes on a 'to torture or not to torture' referendum easily, thank god he refrained from pressuring the avarage citizen with morally difficult questions like this one.

"most of us" would be the voting public. Many don't want to think that they too could be killed just for living the life they do so they'd rather vote in someone who would go after the big bad terrorists. Also apparently being caught with torturing isn't putting your head on the chopping blocks in Bush's case because nothing has nor will come of it. Failing to catch terrorists also didn't have an effect on him since he got two terms despite failing to catch Osama. I'm saying that the US, and sadly the rest of the western world, is willing to give up pretty large amounts of freedom for the illusion of safety. I say illusion because things like the TSA haven't actually had any positive effect yet.



The general consensus of people in my area is that Bush is the worst American president ever, but differences per area are great.
On Bush winning the second term, Bush campaign on war was of vital importantce to winning his second term, he managed to turned his fail in a win thanks to a well played out campaign.

I may have overstated my opinion, the chopping block thing was stupid. I simply wanted to say that torture doesn't strike me as odd. (in this case ofc). Everyone knew this was happening, it appeared in the media serveral years ago. Back then the general public wasn't as interested in the matter because people were still in rage, now many years later they do another attempt.

While I understand your freedom argument, one has to acknowledge that it is arguable and commonly discussed. One could claim that fear restricts freedom, safety is needed to counter that.

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UniverseIX

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#159 UniverseIX
Member since 2011 • 989 Posts
Canada would never do this. It's not good for foreign relations with the US. EVEN if George Bush was guilty of such crimes. I can't imagine the nationalistic people of the USA would stand for their former president to be arrested by another country.
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rastotm

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#160 rastotm
Member since 2011 • 1380 Posts

Canada would never do this. It's not good for foreign relations with the US. EVEN if George Bush was guilty of such crimes. I can't imagine the nationalistic people of the USA would stand for their former president to be arrested by another country.UniverseIX


You should see this as a statement, ofcourse Bush won't be arrested but the consequences of making such a statement in the media is quite big. Suddently everyone remembers the crap that happens in times of war.

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majwill24

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#161 majwill24
Member since 2004 • 1355 Posts

Canada would never do this. It's not good for foreign relations with the US. EVEN if George Bush was guilty of such crimes. I can't imagine the nationalistic people of the USA would stand for their former president to be arrested by another country.UniverseIX

Such an act would dissolve global dialog. Every leader in the world be on notice and the UN headquarters would be abandoned.

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nousername66

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#162 nousername66
Member since 2011 • 146 Posts

Amnesty cares more about terrorists than the victims of terrorists. You will have noticed that Amnesty doesn't care when Islamic terrorists blow up people on a daily basis, they don't say a thing. But if you waterboard a terrorist to prevent more innocent people from being murdered, you're a criminal.

Leftist logic is so backwards it's not even funny.

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QuistisTrepe_

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#163 QuistisTrepe_
Member since 2010 • 4121 Posts

I'm all for it. And maybe we can get someone to arrest Obama for authorizing the assassination of US citizens without a trial.

Both would be great steps to let our politicians know that actions such as these have consequences.

m0zart

Rand would likely disagree with your take.

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th3warr1or

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#164 th3warr1or
Member since 2007 • 20637 Posts
Wtf? That's ridiculous.
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kuraimen

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#165 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
In a non-absurd alternate world that would certainly happen but not in this one and much less in Canada :P
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kuraimen

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#166 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts

Amnesty cares more about terrorists than the victims of terrorists. You will have noticed that Amnesty doesn't care when Islamic terrorists blow up people on a daily basis, they don't say a thing. But if you waterboard a terrorist to prevent more innocent people from being murdered, you're a criminal.

Leftist logic is so backwards it's not even funny.

nousername66
Nevermind Bush & Co. started two wars, one using false pretexts, that killed thousands of innocent people. Bush and his friends are mass murderers in my book. So they getting punished is perfectly logical, although that won't happen in this absurd world.
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Victorious_Fize

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#167 Victorious_Fize
Member since 2011 • 6128 Posts

Amnesty cares more about terrorists than the victims of terrorists. You will have noticed that Amnesty doesn't care when Islamic terrorists blow up people on a daily basis, they don't say a thing. But if you waterboard a terrorist to prevent more innocent people from being murdered, you're a criminal.

Leftist logic is so backwards it's not even funny.

nousername66
Yes, they really care about terrorists more than the victims, don't they?
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m0zart

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#168 m0zart
Member since 2003 • 11580 Posts

[QUOTE="m0zart"]

I'm all for it. And maybe we can get someone to arrest Obama for authorizing the assassination of US citizens without a trial.

Both would be great steps to let our politicians know that actions such as these have consequences.

QuistisTrepe_

Rand would likely disagree with your take.

Actually, that's a non-revelation. I'm a theist, for instance, so I'd expect she'd hate me even more for that. I recognized a long time ago that while I have an extreme appreciation for Rand's extreme form of individualism, she and I would likely hate each other in real life.

And I can live with that.

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mysticstryk

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#169 mysticstryk
Member since 2008 • 1709 Posts

Whether you like Bush or not, it would cause irrevocable damage to the U.S.

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00-Riddick-00

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#170 00-Riddick-00
Member since 2009 • 18884 Posts
Huh... So it's already to hate on Bush. But not Obama.. So typical of OT.
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Ace6301

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#171 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts

[QUOTE="m0zart"]

I'm all for it. And maybe we can get someone to arrest Obama for authorizing the assassination of US citizens without a trial.

Both would be great steps to let our politicians know that actions such as these have consequences.

QuistisTrepe_

Rand would likely disagree with your take.

One of the best compliments a person can receive.
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coolbeans90

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#172 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

m0zart is a p. cool guy in my book.

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surrealnumber5

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#173 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

The very social responsibility that pressured them to do such acts.

rastotm

i did not know being socially responsible was criminal.



Yea virtually no american citizens wanted that war and even less people desired punishment of the terrorists......

non sequitor, your arguments do not link, there is no cause or effect youre just spouting tag lines.

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horgen

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#174 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127729 Posts
I would laugh if they did that.
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Elraptor

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#175 Elraptor
Member since 2004 • 30966 Posts
Crazy demands like that only discredit the speaker.
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UprootedDreamer

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#176 UprootedDreamer
Member since 2011 • 2036 Posts
Canada would be making a big mistake if they arrested him.
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Cloud_765

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#177 Cloud_765
Member since 2008 • 111411 Posts
[QUOTE="Kcube"][QUOTE="m0zart"]

I'm all for it. And maybe we can get someone to arrest Obama for authorizing the assassination of US citizens without a trial.

Both would be great steps to let our politicians know that actions such as these have consequences.

You cannot arrest Obama Obligitory Obama = Hitler post

So you're saying Obama is going to off himself first before we get him. K.
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pspdseagle

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#178 pspdseagle
Member since 2007 • 3307 Posts

[QUOTE="M4Ntan"]

No clue who Harper is

After reading it 50 times, I can safely assume he lives in Canada

ShadowMoses900

He is the prime minister of Canada. I can't give an opinion of him because I don't live in Canada so it would be wrong of me to assume that I understand their issues that face their country. Unfortunately many Canadians think they understand American issues, which they do not.

Actually I would assume a person would have atleast some knowledge of issues of countries that are near-by. Otherwise that would be terribly ignorant.

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LJS9502_basic

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#179 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180096 Posts

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="M4Ntan"]

No clue who Harper is

After reading it 50 times, I can safely assume he lives in Canada

pspdseagle

He is the prime minister of Canada. I can't give an opinion of him because I don't live in Canada so it would be wrong of me to assume that I understand their issues that face their country. Unfortunately many Canadians think they understand American issues, which they do not.

Actually I would assume a person would have atleast some knowledge of issues of countries that are near-by. Otherwise that would be terribly ignorant.

I'd say most people don't care that much about other countries to find out their issues. Most people don't even pay attention to their own country's issues TBH.
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scorch-62

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#180 scorch-62
Member since 2006 • 29763 Posts
Huh... So it's already to hate on Bush. But not Obama.. So typical of OT.00-Riddick-00
Stop ignoring Obama threads then if you want to hate on Obama so much.
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rastotm

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#181 rastotm
Member since 2011 • 1380 Posts

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] i did not know being socially responsible was criminal.

surrealnumber5



Yea virtually no american citizens wanted that war and even less people desired punishment of the terrorists......

non sequitor, your arguments do not link, there is no cause or effect youre just spouting tag lines.



I fail to see your point and your writing styIe don't make things much clearer, why do my arguments not follow?
What I intented to say is the following,

As the representative of a democracy one should listen to the voice of the public, it was clear that US citizens wanted punishment.
US went to war, in order to get information they tortured suspects. While the torturing wasn't publicly announced people did know that it happend thanks to the media releasing reports on this. At the time, hardly anyone cared, partly due to the opposing party showing extreme cruelty on western captives.

Now serveral years later amnesty does a second attempt in shocking the public by correctly stating that US used torture to get information from suspects, I find this dispicable and low. Humans need to get real, there is no humane way of war.

So refering to first two posts:
1. By saying socialy responsible I tried to indicate that the president merely did what the citizens wanted him to do, which is punishment by all means nessecary.

2. I was sarcastic in saying 'Yea virtually no american citizens wanted that war and even less people desired punishment of the terrorists......'

I hope things are more clearer know.

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surrealnumber5

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#182 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

i dont know why GS hates the quote but yes that clears things up quite a bit, thanks.