Are **** against the word of god?

[QUOTE="wonderboy63"]

[QUOTE="MuddVader"]And you think you are Magitekk? no offence but you havent said anything useful to this conversation in a long while.

magitekk

yea im sorry, im just really sleepy now and just shopping for a new laptop on amazon.

Last I checked, you weren't magitekk.

what are you talking about?

[QUOTE="wonderboy63"]

[QUOTE="fidosim"] So? There are a lot more Christians who go to Church every sunday and try to love and respect their fellow man, while disapproving of homosexuality than there are Christians who go out with signs that say "God hates ****".

magitekk

trolling

That's not trolling...this is simple debate. Why are you still even here anyway? You're not putting much of anything into this...

yeah neither am I none of this is going anywhere you have an opinion I don't like, being pansexual it's hard to see how one can say these things "being gay is wrong" and beleive god is on their side when god is love and god is the only one worthy to judge my actions and I beleive in him being all powerful and understanding and flawed in his jealousy. I can only pray that you will realize the lord believes in all his creatures and loves them all the same and doens't believe love to be wrong. I'm done I will pray that you find your way out of this hatred and intolerence and into gods loving light.

and good night.

[QUOTE="magitekk"]

[QUOTE="wonderboy63"]

yea im sorry, im just really sleepy now and just shopping for a new laptop on amazon.

wonderboy63

Last I checked, you weren't magitekk.

what are you talking about?

That comment that muddvader made was toward me, not to you...

[QUOTE="magitekk"]

I don't commit sexual acts...especially homosexual ones 0.o

BumFluff122

Exactly. Those two women should not be in those places, they just aren't made to fit noses.

On a slightly more serious note, the only thing I am against are homosexual acts. Since logic seems to be a popular argument here, the logic is simply that there is absolutely no reason for, it serves no purpose in society, and, if anything, holds back the growth of it. Procreation is something that is very important for a society to advance or even stay steady, which many European countries along with Japan seem to be forgetting. It's not much of a mystery why Europe is rapidly becoming more and more Muslim if you look at this. It can be said that homosexuality is one of the main causes that led to the collapse of Rome, one of the greatest empires (I view it as something that was merely a production of a main reason, just saying arguments I have heard).

The one argument that seems to be popular, and untrue, is that homosexual acts are simply 'unnatural'. It's very easy to go to the animal kingdom and find many, many species that do homosexual acts (chimps and dolphins are big offenders, which, surprisingly are some of the smartest animals).

[QUOTE="wonderboy63"]

[QUOTE="magitekk"]

Last I checked, you weren't magitekk.

magitekk

what are you talking about?

That comment that muddvader made was toward me, not to you...

sorry im not concentrading as much as i used to

[QUOTE="MuddVader"]
Have you ever heard of the children whom are born that are basicaly in the wrong body? As in a little boy whom likes to wear dresses, not because his parents made him that way or encouraged it, but because the boy was just naturaly attracted tothat stuff as alot of little girls are.
Is that child to be destined for eternal damnation because he cant do anything about his sexuality because heis esentialya girl trapped in a boys body?
Why would mistakes such as this be possible if so against gods will?

fidosim

[QUOTE="fidosim"]

[QUOTE="MuddVader"]
Have you ever heard of the children whom are born that are basicaly in the wrong body? As in a little boy whom likes to wear dresses, not because his parents made him that way or encouraged it, but because the boy was just naturaly attracted tothat stuff as alot of little girls are.
Is that child to be destined for eternal damnation because he cant do anything about his sexuality because heis esentialya girl trapped in a boys body?
Why would mistakes such as this be possible if so against gods will?

MuddVader

I don't discriminate against people who have traits that simply cannot be helped. I guess perhaps homosexuality (to an extent) doesn't bother me, but it is when gays show it openly that is irks me.

[QUOTE="MuddVader"]

[QUOTE="fidosim"] One of the main tenants of Christianity is that everyone is born with flaws and are imperfect. It is the way someone lives their life that determines their afterlife.

magitekk

I don't discriminate against people who have traits that simply cannot be helped. I guess perhaps homosexuality (to an extent) doesn't bother me, but it is when gays show it openly that is irks me.

Why? i dont understand people today, why does it bother people when they are to close to somone who is to "different" is there something about the way they act, i truly wish to know.

[QUOTE="MuddVader"]

[QUOTE="fidosim"] One of the main tenants of Christianity is that everyone is born with flaws and are imperfect. It is the way someone lives their life that determines their afterlife.

magitekk

I don't discriminate against people who have traits that simply cannot be helped. I guess perhaps homosexuality (to an extent) doesn't bother me, but it is when gays show it openly that is irks me.

I think homosexuality is probably a combination of genetics and natural life experiences. Having homosexual relations is a choice, however. Leviticus 20:13, even though it is a book of laws and not a philosophical text, condemns a man lying "With another man as one lies with a woman."

fidosim

Well, technically speaking... there are actually alternative ways of reading the original Hebrew text. The original Hebrew reads (transliterated) as follows:

Ve'et zachar lo tishkav mishkevei ishah to'evah hiv

Literally, this can be translated as follows:

(And with) male not (you shall lie down) (beds/lying down) women abhorrence it

The biggest problem in the interpretation of this verse is twofold. First, the word mishkevei has two disparate meanings, one being that of a bed, and the other being the sexual act of "lying down", so to speak. And, the second is that there's a very obvious preposition missing that would otherwise link tishkav with mishkevei.

So, the questions remain: Is this referring to bedding, or the act of having sex with someone? And what is the connection between the forbidding of lying down with men to either the bedding of women or the act of a woman giving herself sexually to someone?

Depending on the answers to these questions, there are actually a number of possible English translations one could make:

"And with men you shall not lie on beds of women; that is detestable." - Do not have homosexual intercourse in a bed belonging to a woman.

"And with men you shall not lie as a woman would lie down; that is detestable." - Do not act submissively during homosexual intercourse.

"And with men you shall not lie as you would lie down with women; that is detestable." - Do not have homosexual intercourse.

The third is the most common translation. But there is no reason to rule out the first two. The first may seem especially strange, but there are many other similar commands in the Torah, such as not putting two different types of seeds in a field, or not having two different types of threads in a clothing. There is an overarching principle that everything has its place, and this would really fit right in. The second is also quite possible - men were supposed to be strong, not weak, and a man acting submissively during sex would presumably be emasculating himself.

For the above reasons I think that, even if one accepts this commandment as one that is still in effect (which seems questionable, considering how many other things in the Torah that Christians ignore), it seems on rather shaky ground to me to claim that it necessarily forbids all homosexual intercourse, as is often claimed.

I wont accept something from the Bible which is not supported by reasoning. And the specific issue in the Bible is the most unreasonable perhaps issue, therefore I try not to care because generally its not worth my attention.

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"]Not necessarily. I feel that if there were a god he would be able to do whatever the hell he wanted and if he thought homosexuality was icky, so be it. I'm not sure how the Muslims and Jews accept them nowadays, but the majority of Christians don't take the bible literally.Adrianstalker

Which is wrong by the way. Because the Bibble should be taken literally.

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="wonderboy63"]

Maybe bcuz some christian fanatics beilive god created both genders for reproduction and that love between 2 people of sae gender is against his ways for humans, mistake me if u think im wrong here?

fidosim

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="fidosim"] It's not a hatred of homosexuals, but a disapproval of homosexuality. Two people of the same gender, logically speaking, cannot reproduce, which is what the purpose of sex is. You don't have to agree, but the logic is there.magitekk

The average christian does not hate gays, but rather tolerates them. On the other hand, the gays are generally the hateful ones.

[QUOTE="Adrianstalker"]

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"]Not necessarily. I feel that if there were a god he would be able to do whatever the hell he wanted and if he thought homosexuality was icky, so be it. I'm not sure how the Muslims and Jews accept them nowadays, but the majority of Christians don't take the bible literally.Teenaged

Which is wrong by the way. Because the Bibble should be taken literally.

That's how hard core Christians operate, it just "is" and it requires no proof...and I quote Ned Flanders "I do everything the bible says, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff".

[QUOTE="magitekk"]

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]I disagree. There is no logic when it comes to hatred.

Teenaged

The average christian does not hate gays, but rather tolerates them. On the other hand, the gays are generally the hateful ones.

Yeah, umm, what the heck was THAT???? Nice post magitekk, idiot.

Missed this post. As i've said, the hate is not supposed to be at homosexuals, but homosexuality is regarded as sinful.

fidosim

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]sigh* Yes, gays have been persecuted for centuries upon centuries, but some link from Fox proves that they're just as bad. >_>fidosim

Really, read my posts carefully. I have not once insinuated that homosexuals are generally hateful, I was simply responding to an allegation that Christians hate homosexuals, but no homosexuals hate Christians, which clearly isn't the case, as there are hateful gay militant groups out there.

When a group of people are being persecuted for centuries without any valid reason (yes the Bible is not a valid reason as it presents no reasoning on this matter whatsoever), they will react. And its expectable and justifiable.

[QUOTE="MuddVader"]
A Much larger majority of christians are against gays than gays are against Christianity. There are gay christians for 'god' sake lol.

fidosim

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="magitekk"]

I don't commit sexual acts...especially homosexual ones 0.o

Z0MBIES

Exactly. Those two women should not be in those places, they just aren't made to fit noses.

On a slightly more serious note, the only thing I am against are homosexual acts. Since logic seems to be a popular argument here, the logic is simply that there is absolutely no reason for, it serves no purpose in society, and, if anything, holds back the growth of it. Procreation is something that is very important for a society to advance or even stay steady, which many European countries along with Japan seem to be forgetting. It's not much of a mystery why Europe is rapidly becoming more and more Muslim if you look at this. It can be said that homosexuality is one of the main causes that led to the collapse of Rome, one of the greatest empires (I view it as something that was merely a production of a main reason, just saying arguments I have heard).

The one argument that seems to be popular, and untrue, is that homosexual acts are simply 'unnatural'. It's very easy to go to the animal kingdom and find many, many species that do homosexual acts (chimps and dolphins are big offenders, which, surprisingly are some of the smartest animals).

On the other hand of course we are threatened with over-population. Logic here dictates that gay people are actually helping out with the problem. See? :|

George Carlin said it himself...."religion is bull****"

That man should have ruled the world....RIP

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]The Bible's wrong. Surprise...?jaydough

Problem solved!

/thread! Lmao

No but really homosexuality is a lot more common nowadays (or at least homosexuals are more open about it) so it'd be a fair amount of people going to hell simply because they're gay They could be the nicest person in the world, but still be sent to hell because they're homosexual? I disagree with that completely.

It says we shouldn't partake in lust either, and that doing so is a sin.

Well guess what.

Aren't many homosexuals agnostics or something? Because they'd rather not believe in a religion where they're supposedly doomed to go to Hell?

I'm not entirely sure about that, but I thought I heard somewhere that there are more homosexuals who don't follow Christianity than those that do.

I thought I heard somewhere that there are more homosexuals who don't follow Christianity than those that do.

Murj

You know what in then end it doesn't matter.

We are all looking for the right answer when it comes to god and acceptance. The only think i hope for is that the world becomes tolerant of each other. And reach for an equality for every man and women. I'm going to be with the person i want to be with. If "god" don't like it, so be it.

Who cares. Just live your life! This is a reason why i turned from catholic to athiest because of crap like this. "we cant do this or that because some magical being says we cant!" What?!?! Its my life!

It also says thou shall not kill. So.... Ummm... Should we all be vegetarians. then? :?

Yeah, yeah, the bible says a lot of things, and not very clearly. So just live your life like you want to.

It say in the bible that homosexuality is wrong, and not accepted by god. I don't beilive in the bible that much, not much of a christianity fanatic either, but this catches my attention, dont you think if there really was a god, he would allow people to love whoever they want? I feel this is a bit insulting to them, also if you are homosexual, how do you feel?

P.S im not gay but i find its incredably unfair (it also states they will be sent to hell, cant remember all the details)

Who cares. Just live your life! This is a reason why i turned from catholic to athiest because of crap like this. "we cant do this or that because some magical being says we cant!" What?!?! Its my life!

It also says thou shall not kill. So.... Ummm... Should we all be vegetarians. then? :?

krp008

No. I don't manually kill the stuff that I eat, and neither do the vast majority of meat eaters. Meat consumption being murder is nothing but vegan propaganda.

That's in the old testament. Therefore it doesn't count.

The new testament reflects what god really wants, the old testament was merely a farce.

[QUOTE="krp008"]

Who cares. Just live your life! This is a reason why i turned from catholic to athiest because of crap like this. "we cant do this or that because some magical being says we cant!" What?!?! Its my life!

It also says thou shall not kill. So.... Ummm... Should we all be vegetarians. then? :?

dracula_16

No. I don't manually kill the stuff that I eat, and neither do the vast majority of meat eaters. Meat consumption being murder is nothing but vegan propaganda.

By continuing to buy meat you are endorsing murder of the animals. That is not vegan propaganda. The animals are CLEARLY dead when you open the package. That means they had to have died at some point. That is murder by definition!

fiscope

You ought to check up on your definition then. I love how you try to put the blame on me when I've never killed a cow before. Plus, endorsing murder and commiting murder are two different things. It's not my fault that they are delicious.

This has been discussed a lot. The Bible doesn't say anything about homosexuality in the New Testament. jaydough

[QUOTE="jaydough"] This has been discussed a lot. The Bible doesn't say anything about homosexuality in the New Testament. Lansdowne5

That is indeed a indecent act and a perversion!

[QUOTE="fiscope"]

By continuing to buy meat you are endorsing murder of the animals. That is not vegan propaganda. The animals are CLEARLY dead when you open the package. That means they had to have died at some point. That is murder by definition!

dracula_16

You ought to check up on your definition then. I love how you try to put the blame on me when I've never killed a cow before. Plus, endorsing murder and commiting murder are two different things. It's not my fault that they are delicious.

Arguing technicalities doesn't change the fact that you are paying for murdered animals. Did you kill them? No, but you payed someone else to. I love meat as much as the next guy, but to say it's not murder is just silly. :)fiscope

Plus the Smiths are awesome.

It makes mention of homosexual actions being wrong, i.e. sleeping with a member of the same sex. However it doesn't mention that you cannot have those feelings of love for another person. The bible is very vague on Homosexuality. If you refrain from "sex" with a member of the same sex then it should be alright. ferrari2001

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]It makes mention of homosexual actions being wrong, i.e. sleeping with a member of the same sex. However it doesn't mention that you cannot have those feelings of love for another person. The bible is very vague on Homosexuality. If you refrain from "sex" with a member of the same sex then it should be alright. Engrish_Major

Now I need a source on that one. Is it a teaching of God at that point or the local customs of the people. Many people who read the bible think customs of the people living in that time are teachings of God. ferrari2001

Here - Deuteronomy 23:2.

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"]Not necessarily. I feel that if there were a god he would be able to do whatever the hell he wanted and if he thought homosexuality was icky, so be it. I'm not sure how the Muslims and Jews accept them nowadays, but the majority of Christians don't take the bible literally.Adrianstalker

Which is wrong by the way. Because the Bibble should be taken literally.

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]Now I need a source on that one. Is it a teaching of God at that point or the local customs of the people. Many people who read the bible think customs of the people living in that time are teachings of God. Engrish_Major

Here - Deuteronomy 23:2.

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]Now I need a source on that one. Is it a teaching of God at that point or the local customs of the people. Many people who read the bible think customs of the people living in that time are teachings of God. Engrish_Major

Here - Deuteronomy 23:2.

That's in the Old Testament. Since the New Testament contains the New Law, is this mentioned in the New Testament as well?