Are Klingons considered an example of acceptable "blackface"?

So, I recently just finished a Star Trek Marathon. I watched all of the original series, all of the animated series, and all of the movies with the original cast (except for Generations, because F that movie and it's a horrible sendoff for Captain Kirk). And during that time, I couldn't help but be interested by the evolution of the Klingons.

Originally the Klingons were just white guys, albeit white guys with bad paste-on eyebrows. Eventually the Klingons were the same white guys, but they were wearing dark makeup. But it didn't look like they were supposed to be black guys, it looked more like that horrible spray-on suntan makeup. It wasn't until Star Trek: The Motion Picture that the Klingons got a drastic makeover. These were the new modern "black Klingons" with the forehead ridges. And it got me thinking...were the Klingons supposed to have been black all along? Well, that would be weird, right? If the Klingons were supposed to have been black all along, then why not just hire black actors?

Anyway, I then couldn't even tell if the Klingons were actually supposed to be black at all. Subsequent movies had known white guys such as Christopher Lloyd and Christopher Plummer playing Klingons. So, like...are the Klingons supposed to be black or not? If they're not supposed to be black, then why change their appearance so that they constantly require that kind of makeup? If they weren't supposed to be black then it seems like it would've been far easier to just stick with the old white Klingons. Why bother changing their skin color at all?

And if the Klingons are supposed to be black, is it offensive when white guys play Klingons? Hell, never mind offensive, wouldn't it just be EASIER to just hire black actors? And if white guys playing Klingons qualifies as an example of blackface, does the fact that the Klingons are aliens make it an acceptable example of blackface?

And before anyone gets the wrong idea, this isn't some "SJW i'm so offended" rant. I'm legitimately curious about this because it's something that always struck me as kind of strange and impractical. Why exactly would they turn the Klingons from white people into black people, and then immediately start casting white guys who are required to wear a shitload of makeup? What the hell is the reason for that?

Didn't realize until 20 years after it was aired that the guy playing Martok was white lol.

I don't think it's as clear cut, since they are an alien with a hemorrhoid on it's head. The original incarnations where it's just a guy with a tanned face probably could I guess.

they are obviously supposed to be russians ... yeah, sucks being young, right ^^

then in the 90s they became blacks ... obviously

they are always primitive and primal, they can gain respect for their determination and strenght but never for their intelect or individual personality

really have problems watching NG from the 90s now, I admit its as bad and amateurish as the shows they make today, but worf really sticks out ... now I think hes designed to be hated by Viewers ...

and then star treck is racist in the form that the alien races the humans have to deal with are always made up of one aspect of humans nature ... klingons are primal ... spock is smart and cold ... ferrengi are only greedy ... and so on ... its really narrow minded

Klingon's were suppose to represent Russians.. This is made dramatically clear with the sixth movie in which the Klingon empire is collapsing, and they reach out to ask for help from the federation.. Much like when Russia collapsed.. They asked for help from the United States marking a end of their cold war...... What exactly are Klingon's suppose to be? They are aliens.. And there are black characters in the shows and movies who are human.. I don't see how these races are representative of any kind of race.. And huh about Worf? Worf is a extremely popular character in the series and one of the main characters.. Not only that but there is another black person, Jordie Laforge, who is a human and most times is portrayed as one of the most intellectual of the cast in being head engineer of the ship..

Not to mention with how negative you claim Klingons are shown as, they sure as hell have a massive fan base that adores them..

I don't see it. Klingons are not really caricature of black people or black subculture.

Never thought about it.

It was the 60´s when the first Star Trek series was being filmed, at that time black people still had to travel in the back of buses and all over the south there was segregation so it was actually a cultural crash that there was one black actress in the series ( Nichelle Nichols ). So if the producers wanted dark skinned people to play Klingons it was a lot easier to go and paint some white dudes "black".

I like the Klingons.

Star Trek: Klingon

OP is racist. Klingons obviously aren't black, they simply got a bigger budget to make their aliens look more alien.

True, Klingons spent all the budget that´s why the make-up of Romulans looks really poor.

I think it's more to do with making the Klingons look more alien then they were originally and they never stuck me as looking dark skinned in particular. I was always wondering why they went from looking basically like dark haired humans to having forehead ridges and fangs. The explanation they gave on Enterprise was kind of lazy. I'm more annoyed that even now with decent special effects almost all the aliens in Star Trek are still humanoid. Aside from a few instances, notably the Tholians, we rarely see non humanoid intelligent aliens.

I didn't say they were.

But the question still stands. If they aren't directly intended to "look black", then why was the entire Klingon given such a makeover to the point where even white guys playing Klingons had to dress in blackface? What was the reason for such a visual makeover AT ALL? And again, I'm approaching this from a practicality standpoint rather than an "I'm so offended" standpoint. From the point of view of a filmmaker, it actually makes more sense to just make the Klingons any shade from white to black. Then they could still have their white Klingons and their black Klingons and they wouldn't have to waste time covering the actors head to toe in makeup every day. Like, when I watch Star Trek III, I can't think of ANY reason why Christopher Lloyd had to be covered in blackface. If they'd simply saved time and made him a white Klingon, would the movie have suffered even one bit? I doubt it.

I realize that Klingons aren't supposed to be a caricature of black people, which is precisely why I find it so strange that they decided that ALL Klingons have to be black.

While I agree that the 60's were backwards, Star Trek didn't necessarily shy away from black actors. You already mentioned Uhura. And there was also an important black side-character in the early 1st season episode "The Galileo Seven". As several crewmembers are stranded on a planet and are slowly killed off by hostile aliens, a random black Enterprise crewmember who we've never seen before and will never see again manages to A) avoid being one of the totally incosequential people who gets killed off and B) manages to be the voice of "humanity" while calling into question Spock's adherence to cold logic. This random dude who we've never seen before and will never see again manages to avoid being the token black guy who dies AND manages to provide one of the earlier commentaries on the nature of man by pitting this random emotional guy against the cold logic of Spock. And it works damn well because it's never presented as "look at the black guy". The guy is just a PERSON who realizes the gravity of the situation and is fed up because he thinks that Spock is going to get everyone killed.

And again, this was EARLY Star Trek. The show kept on going for at least another two years before getting cancelled, which leads me to believe that audiences would tolerate such revolutionary ideas as black people being treated like PEOPLE as long as the show delivered on being entertaining.

But again, the Klingons didn't even start as being Dark-skinned. They got dark-skinned makeup later in the series, but originally they were just white guys with bushy eyebrows. No "dark skinned" about it. So...is it the case that Klingons were originally intended to be dark skinned? That's not a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely asking. And if the Klingons were originally intended to be dark-skinned, then why?

But that's all sort of beside the point. While the first Klingons were clearly just white guys with bushy eyebrows, and that may have been due to the social aspect in studios during the 60's, I didn't REALLY start getting confused until Star Trek: The Motion Picture, which was the late 70's. Practically the 80's for all intents and purposes. That's when I REALLY started to think, "wait, are these supposed to be black guys or not?" Most of the "blackface" actually happens LATE, since the earlier depictions of Klingons really do a horrible job of actually making them look black. Star Trek VI was released in freaking 1991, which is WAY too late to say that they had to put white guys such as Christopher Plummer and David Warner in blackface because actual black actors are taboo. Furthermore, Michael Dorn (aka Commander Worf) appeared in Star Trek VI as a Klingon and he's black. By 1991, black actors in movies have clearly become acceptable so it's a little bit strange to use the "they couldn't use black actors" reason to explain the use of blackface in the same movie. At this point we're not talking about the 60's, we're talking about the 80's and 90's.

@MrGeezer: I think it was said somewhere they were meant to be vaguely Asian, somewhere between Vietnamese and Indian in TOS. There's a lot of Asian stereotypes in TOS Klingons IMO. It's like every actor is squinting and the eyebrows and lashes seem exagerated.

Roddenberry was progressive above and beyond the call of duty and put himself at personal and professional risk to do the things that he did.

Don't forget Larry flint was shot twice for putting an interracial scene in Hustler and Roddenberry was doing interracial scenes 10 years beforehand.

"blackface" is more than just makeup, it is acting like a caricature of black people, black culture. None of that is portrayed by the Klingons.

I'd argue that Klingons are not blackface, just dark-skinned aliens is all.

as opposed to what? Politics? Blargh, I'm tired of that nonsense; i'd rather debate this dumb nonsense than that stupid bullshit. At least this isn't a dead horse.

For the handful of people who may think this is a "dumb thread"...if you feel that way, don't post in it, and leave out the insults, plain and simple.

Please don't bump old threads.

-Byshop