are people born ****

[QUOTE="NicktehImperial"]Well you don't see male lions trying to mate with eachother do you?ShuLordLiuPei

"Both male and female lions have been seen to interact homosexually. Male lions pair-bond for a number of days and initiate homosexual activity with affectionate nuzzling and caressing, leading to mounting and thrusting. About 8% of mountings have been observed to occur with other males, while female pairings are held to be fairly common in captivity but have not been observed in the wild."

Bruce Bagemihl, Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity

Srivastav, Suvira (15 December-31 December 2001). "Lion, Without Lioness"

So the answer is yes, they are born like that?

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="cornlockes"]

no. no they are not

cornlockes

when you show me the evidencethat they are.

If sexual preference is a choice, that would mean in every person's life there comes a time when said person has sexual tendencies toward both genders but chooses one or the other, or both in the case of bisexuals. Is that how it worked out for you? Of course not, and I wouldn't imagine it being any different for a gay person. Besides, who would choose to be gay if they are really straight? It makes no sense.

EDIT: By re-reading my post I don't think my stance was made clear: people are born gay Of course, some people choose to be gay for some reason or another but for the most part, true homosexuals did not choose their sexuality and therefore are born that way.

[QUOTE="cornlockes"][QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="cornlockes"]

no. no they are not

mig_killer2

when you show me the evidencethat they are.

The case for it being genetic is not that there is one gay gene, but that there are multiple genes that cause homosexuality.

If sexual preference is a choice, that would mean in every person's life there comes a time when said person has sexual tendencies toward both genders but chooses one or the other, or both in the case of bisexuals. Is that how it worked out for you? I wouldn't imagine it being any different for a gay person. Besides, who would choose to be gay if they are really straight? It makes no sense.MotherSuperior

Well, women are massively complicated. :P

[QUOTE="MotherSuperior"]If sexual preference is a choice, that would mean in every person's life there comes a time when said person has sexual tendencies toward both genders but chooses one or the other, or both in the case of bisexuals. Is that how it worked out for you? I wouldn't imagine it being any different for a gay person. Besides, who would choose to be gay if they are really straight? It makes no sense.mimic-Denmark

Well, women are massively complicated. :P

I concur.

Just a fact that I learned!! Same sex relationships are accepted more between women than men. Or so I have read.Nitro-Flea

Wow. I can't believe how often this topic comes up and how irrelevant it is. Just for the record, I voted "no" but to be honest, I wouldn't disagree with anyone who voted "yes".

However, my train of thought is that sexuality implies preferences and as I recall from being young, my sexual preferences grew in depth. I never wanted to have sex when I was younger but as I grew up, I had more of an urge. Now, to say this "urge" is predetermined when I was conceived I have to disagree. I see it this way: people are born asexual as much as they're born as atheists. No one can have a religion because they don't even know about the basic idea of a god. They're taught that as they grow up, they aren't born with it necessarily.

If its learned behavior then it doesnt explain gay teens who grew up in conservative families. My God father is gay do you think his dad was letting him play with dolls and act all girly when he was growing up in strict 1950's suburbia? He said he always felt different even as a kid.Darthmatt

Just because he's gay doesn't mean he would want to play with dolls or act girly...

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]If its learned behavior then it doesnt explain gay teens who grew up in conservative families. My God father is gay do you think his dad was letting him play with dolls and act all girly when he was growing up in strict 1950's suburbia? He said he always felt different even as a kid.OregonTrailing

Just because he's gay doesn't mean he would want to play with dolls or act girly...

Whoever said yes is an idiot, for those who said yes, do you think that some people are just randomly born gay It's a choice that people make, mainly when they're in their teenage years, strongly influenced by different factors such as being molested, bad parenting, associated with other gays, etc. And they can return to being heterosexual.Solid_Snake325

Lol. What about the gays who group under good parents, weren't molested, or associated with other gays?

Whoever said yes is an idiot, for those who said yes, do you think that some people are just randomly born gay It's a choice that people make, mainly when they're in their teenage years, strongly influenced by different factors such as being molested, bad parenting, associated with other gays, etc. And they can return to being heterosexual.Solid_Snake325

[QUOTE="NicktehImperial"]Well you don't see male lions trying to mate with eachother do you?ShuLordLiuPei

"Both male and female lions have been seen to interact homosexually. Male lions pair-bond for a number of days and initiate homosexual activity with affectionate nuzzling and caressing, leading to mounting and thrusting. About 8% of mountings have been observed to occur with other males, while female pairings are held to be fairly common in captivity but have not been observed in the wild."

Bruce Bagemihl, Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity

Srivastav, Suvira (15 December-31 December 2001). "Lion, Without Lioness"

So the answer is yes, they are born like that?

This video is somewhat pertinent to our situation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIcrCZQkSlg

I don't necessarily agree with it but it's funny as hell

Whoever said yes is an idiot, for those who said yes, do you think that some people are just randomly born gay It's a choice that people make, mainly when they're in their teenage years, strongly influenced by different factors such as being molested, bad parenting, associated with other gays, etc. And they can return to being heterosexual.Solid_Snake325

I've had bad parenting, and I've associated with gays, and I am heterosexual.

And then there are friends of mine who have grown up in a conservative atmosphere with good parents and normal lives and turned out to be gay.

Bad parenting, molestation and association with homosexuals don't necessarily make homosexuals, there isn't even a correlation. So your opinion is wrong.

[QUOTE="Solid_Snake325"]Whoever said yes is an idiot, for those who said yes, do you think that some people are just randomly born gay It's a choice that people make, mainly when they're in their teenage years, strongly influenced by different factors such as being molested, bad parenting, associated with other gays, etc. And they can return to being heterosexual.GettingTired

touche

Yes they are. Being gay isn't a choice, its just how people are. Mumbles527

Truth, this is.

It's like in the Matrix, " You've already made the choice, now you only have to understand why you've made it".:P

Until someone comes with proof, I'll say that homoxesuality is not genetic and that it is a choice.

So please people stop with these threads and with " it's genetic , it's been proven " type of comments.

It's like in the Matrix, " You've already made the choice, now you only have to understand why you've made it".:P

Until someone comes with proof, I'll say that homoxesuality is not genetic and that it is a choice.

So please people stop with these threads and with " it's genetic , it's been proven " type of comments.

gs_gear

So if it's not genetic, its a choice?

Sorry, but no one choses to be gay.

Ask anyone who is gay.

I'm pretty sure you never chose to be straight, you just are.

EDIT: I swear...I put in those periods...stupid glitching...

It's like in the Matrix, " You've already made the choice, now you only have to understand why you've made it".:P

Until someone comes with proof, I'll say that homoxesuality is not genetic and that it is a choice.

So please people stop with these threads and with " it's genetic , it's been proven " type of comments.

gs_gear

It's not genetic in the form of a gay gene. The most widely accepted theory is that while the baby is in the womb, it's body attacks the hormone that changes it into a male (since all fetuses start female) So the amount of that hormone you get sort of defines how gay you are, hence why some gays are very feminine, and others act like any other guy.

Here's a fact. A study in Canada showed for every biological older brother you have, you're chance of being gay increases by 33%. (Assuming the base rate of homosexuality is 2% it would take 11 older brothers to have a 50-50 chance of being gay)

It's not genetic in the form of a gay gene. The most widely accepted theory is that while the baby is in the womb, it's body attacks the hormone that changes it into a male (since all fetuses start female) So the amount of that hormone you get sort of defines how gay you are, hence why some gays are very feminine, and others act like any other guy.

Here's a fact. A study in Canada showed for every biological older brother you have, you're chance of being gay increases by 33%. (Assuming the base rate of homosexuality is 2% it would take 11 older brothers to have a 50-50 chance of being gay)

OregonTrailing

So what does that study prove?

So what? Does that make me wrong? That's just a theory.

So what does that study prove?

gs_gear

We already established that you are wrong. Homosexuality is not a choice.

And that study also proves you wrong.

[QUOTE="OregonTrailing"]

It's not genetic in the form of a gay gene. The most widely accepted theory is that while the baby is in the womb, it's body attacks the hormone that changes it into a male (since all fetuses start female) So the amount of that hormone you get sort of defines how gay you are, hence why some gays are very feminine, and others act like any other guy.

Here's a fact. A study in Canada showed for every biological older brother you have, you're chance of being gay increases by 33%. (Assuming the base rate of homosexuality is 2% it would take 11 older brothers to have a 50-50 chance of being gay)

gs_gear

So what does that study prove?

It's a theory backed up by evidence.

It proves that homosexuality has nothing to do with social factors and everything to do with biology in the mothers womb.

[QUOTE="gs_gear"]So what? Does that make me wrong? That's just a theory.

So what does that study prove?

The_Ish

We already established that you are wrong. Homosexuality is not a choice.

And that study also proves you wrong.

Ok, now you prove that I'm wrong and not just say that I'm wrong.

And about that study, please explain how does that prove I am wrong.

Did you read what I've wrote: homosexuality is not genetic and that it is a choice.

Ok, now you prove that I'm wrong and not just say that I'm wrong.

And about that study, please explain how does that prove I am wrong.

gs_gear

As I've already said, no one chooses to be gay ask any homosexual if they ever chose to be gay Hell, ask any straight person if they chose to be straight. If that's too difficult for you, try becoming homsexual yourself. If it's really a choice, then there is nothing to lose and you can turn back.

The study proves you wrong because it shows us that homosexuality is not a choice. I don't understand how you missed that.

[QUOTE="The_Ish"][QUOTE="gs_gear"]So what? Does that make me wrong? That's just a theory.

So what does that study prove?

gs_gear

We already established that you are wrong. Homosexuality is not a choice.

And that study also proves you wrong.

Ok, now you prove that I'm wrong and not just say that I'm wrong.

And about that study, please explain how does that prove I am wrong.

Did I ever explicitly state you are wrong? No. I even agree that it not genetic, but disagree that it is a choice. And I backed up my opinion with evidence, unlike you.

Sigh.

This is just a variant of the constant nature v. nurture debate. It's a combination of both.

[QUOTE="Solid_Snake325"]Whoever said yes is an idiot, for those who said yes, do you think that some people are just randomly born gay It's a choice that people make, mainly when they're in their teenage years, strongly influenced by different factors such as being molested, bad parenting, associated with other gays, etc. And they can return to being heterosexual.The_Ish

I've had bad parenting, and I've associated with gays, and I am heterosexual.

And then there are friends of mine who have grown up in a conservative atmosphere with good parents and normal lives and turned out to be gay.

Bad parenting, molestation and association with homosexuals don't necessarily make homosexuals, there isn't even a correlation. So your opinion is wrong.

[QUOTE="Solid_Snake325"]Whoever said yes is an idiot, for those who said yes, do you think that some people are just randomly born gay It's a choice that people make, mainly when they're in their teenage years, strongly influenced by different factors such as being molested, bad parenting, associated with other gays, etc. And they can return to being heterosexual._Margulis_

Lol. What about the gays who group under good parents, weren't molested, or associated with other gays?

[QUOTE="_Margulis_"]

[QUOTE="Solid_Snake325"]Whoever said yes is an idiot, for those who said yes, do you think that some people are just randomly born gay It's a choice that people make, mainly when they're in their teenage years, strongly influenced by different factors such as being molested, bad parenting, associated with other gays, etc. And they can return to being heterosexual.Solid_Snake325

Lol. What about the gays who group under good parents, weren't molested, or associated with other gays?

Are you joking? The millions of gay people in the world! I have numerous gay friends who had a prefectly normal childhood, and you wouldn't ever guess they were gay by looking or talking to them.