Are Stock/Indie Car Drivers Athletes?

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

How is 7 men who are refueling a car, changing it's tires or jacking up the car so tires can be changed not a physical exertion and just an endurance test? The same could be said of football. In baseball, more players are sitting or standing around verses actually doing anything. Anyone can swing a bat or throw a ball after all. How are baseball players athletes? Baseball, with no set time period could be said to be a test of endurance also, yet no one claims that baseball players are not athletes. If race car drivers or the pit crews are not athletes, then no one else could be considered an athlete that plays an orginized sport like football or baseball. That would even exclude those who participate in the Olympics.

senses_fail_06

Where to start, let us see.

The only mention of physical exertion is from the pit crew. I guess if you want to consider them athletes you can, I mean I think you would be wrong, but feel free to. I had to lift up the front end of my car the other day so someone could get a jack under it...I wasn't competing in a sport.

Baseball requires extreme physicality to play. Running the bases, shagging balls, mechanics of a pitcher, etc. It isn't just throwing and catching.

I would consider racing a sport, under the circumstances that the physical cars are the athletes and not the people running them.

Would you consider a bobsled team athletes?

As I said, anyone can throw a ball, you do not have to be an athlete to be able to. Does it take skill to throw one at 100MPH? Sure, but you do not have to be an athlete. Base runners spend more time standing around verses actually running.

By your definition, a construction worker is an athlete. Drivers and pit crews do work to make cars handle so it is easier to drive, but when an ill handling car is running 170+, it takes strength and stamina to keep the wheels on the track. That alone meets your definition of extreme physicality of getting the car to turn with their arms..

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"] It is often easier to define what it is not Golf is a skill that one can acquire over time -if i practiced every day from the time I was 12, I could at least make the Nike tour -you have 60 year old men getting second in majors (Tom Watson) -will athletic ability help in golf? yes...of course. But it is not required Football takes athletic ability. It is more than just an acquired skill. -that is not to say practice is not required -but no matter how hard I tried, I would never be good enough to play in the NFL or NBArawsavon

So, what makes someone an athlete?

I understand your post just fine. That still leaves the question however.

They're not athletes, they're drivers. This is coming from someone who raced semi-professionally for the better part of 3 seasons.

I think an athlete is someone who engages in a physically demanding activity that requires bodily locomotion or an activity that requires you to be in above average shape. Turning a steering wheel, pulling or pushing a clutch, and applying pressure to a break and a gas pedal is not physically demanding nor does it require someone to be in above average shape. So, car-racing is not a sport in my opinion.

I think an athelete is someone who engages in a physically demanding activity or an activity that requires you to be in above average shape. Turning a steering wheel, pulling or pushing a clutch, and applying pressure to a break and a gas pedal is not physically demanding nor does it require someone to be in above average shape. So, car-racing is not a sport in my opinion.

BluRayHiDef

Try doing it for a few hours subject to forces of up to 4 G's in tempratures of 120 F or so.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

I think an athelete is someone who engages in a physically demanding activity or an activity that requires you to be in above average shape. Turning a steering wheel, pulling or pushing a clutch, and applying pressure to a break and a gas pedal is not physically demanding nor does it require someone to be in above average shape. So, car-racing is not a sport in my opinion.

worlock77

Try doing it for a few hours subject to forces of up to 4 G's in tempratures of 120 F or so.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

I think an athelete is someone who engages in a physically demanding activity or an activity that requires you to be in above average shape. Turning a steering wheel, pulling or pushing a clutch, and applying pressure to a break and a gas pedal is not physically demanding nor does it require someone to be in above average shape. So, car-racing is not a sport in my opinion.

worlock77

Try doing it for a few hours subject to forces of up to 4 G's in tempratures of 120 F or so.

By physically demanding, I meant an activity that requires bodily locomotion. Just wanted to clarify that. Now, as for your statement, it implies that anything that is physically demanding is a sport, which would mean that working as a construction worker or a coal minder is a sport. You've got to draw the line somewhere.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

I think an athelete is someone who engages in a physically demanding activity or an activity that requires you to be in above average shape. Turning a steering wheel, pulling or pushing a clutch, and applying pressure to a break and a gas pedal is not physically demanding nor does it require someone to be in above average shape. So, car-racing is not a sport in my opinion.

BluRayHiDef

Try doing it for a few hours subject to forces of up to 4 G's in tempratures of 120 F or so.

By physically demanding, I meant an activity that requires bodily locomotion. Just wanted to clarify that. Now, as for your statement, it implies that anything that is physically demanding is a sport, which would mean that working as a construction worker or a coal minder is a sport. You've got to draw the line somewhere.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

I think an athelete is someone who engages in a physically demanding activity or an activity that requires you to be in above average shape. Turning a steering wheel, pulling or pushing a clutch, and applying pressure to a break and a gas pedal is not physically demanding nor does it require someone to be in above average shape. So, car-racing is not a sport in my opinion.

BluRayHiDef

Try doing it for a few hours subject to forces of up to 4 G's in tempratures of 120 F or so.

By physically demanding, I meant an activity that requires bodily locomotion. Just wanted to clarify that. Now, as for your statement, it implies that anything that is physically demanding is a sport, which would mean that working as a construction worker or a coal minder is a sport. You've got to draw the line somewhere.

Then using your argument a baseball pitcher or a hockey goalie isn't an athelete.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Try doing it for a few hours subject to forces of up to 4 G's in tempratures of 120 F or so.

kingkong0124

By physically demanding, I meant an activity that requires bodily locomotion. Just wanted to clarify that. Now, as for your statement, it implies that anything that is physically demanding is a sport, which would mean that working as a construction worker or a coal minder is a sport. You've got to draw the line somewhere.

What if it were made competitive? For example, what if a coal miner had to mine as many pounds of coal in a particular amount of time so as to outperform another coal miner? Is coal mining now a sport?

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

I think an athelete is someone who engages in a physically demanding activity or an activity that requires you to be in above average shape. Turning a steering wheel, pulling or pushing a clutch, and applying pressure to a break and a gas pedal is not physically demanding nor does it require someone to be in above average shape. So, car-racing is not a sport in my opinion.

thegerg

That's a load of bollocks.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

By physically demanding, I meant an activity that requires bodily locomotion. Just wanted to clarify that. Now, as for your statement, it implies that anything that is physically demanding is a sport, which would mean that working as a construction worker or a coal minder is a sport. You've got to draw the line somewhere.

BluRayHiDef

What if it were made competitive? For example, what if a coal miner had to mine as many pounds of coal in a particular amount of time so as to outperform another coal miner? Is coal mining now a sport?

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] Being a construction worker or a coal miner is not competitive in nature like auto racing. kingkong0124

What if it were made competitive? For example, what if a coal miner had to mine as many pounds of coal in a particular amount of time so as to outperform another coal miner? Is coal mining now a sport?

I'll have to agree with you on that. However, I think I gave bad examples. I should have provided an example which involved operating machinery. I just don't think anything that requires a machine to do most of the work (especially the locomotive aspect) is a sport.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

What if it were made competitive? For example, what if a coal miner had to mine as many pounds of coal in a particular amount of time so as to outperform another coal miner? Is coal mining now a sport?

BluRayHiDef

I'll have to agree with you on that. However, I think I gave bad examples. I should have provided an example which involved operating machinery. I just don't think anything that requires a machine to do most of the work (especially the locomotive aspect) is a sport.

Sport and atheleticism are not mutually inclusive.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

What if it were made competitive? For example, what if a coal miner had to mine as many pounds of coal in a particular amount of time so as to outperform another coal miner? Is coal mining now a sport?

BluRayHiDef

I'll have to agree with you on that. However, I think I gave bad examples. I should have provided an example which involved operating machinery. I just don't think anything that requires a machine to do most of the work (especially the locomotive aspect) is a sport.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] In my opinion, then yes, it would be a sport. worlock77

I'll have to agree with you on that. However, I think I gave bad examples. I should have provided an example which involved operating machinery. I just don't think anything that requires a machine to do most of the work (especially the locomotive aspect) is a sport.

Sport and atheleticism are not mutually inclusive.

I believe that they are. Any activity that is competitive, but doesn't require athleticism (i.e. physically demanding bodily locomotion/ movements) is merely a game. For example, poker and video-game tournaments are competitive, but I don't think they're sports. The same thing goes for racing.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

What if it were made competitive? For example, what if a coal miner had to mine as many pounds of coal in a particular amount of time so as to outperform another coal miner? Is coal mining now a sport?

BluRayHiDef

I'll have to agree with you on that. However, I think I gave bad examples. I should have provided an example which involved operating machinery. I just don't think anything that requires a machine to do most of the work (especially the locomotive aspect) is a sport.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

I'll have to agree with you on that. However, I think I gave bad examples. I should have provided an example which involved operating machinery. I just don't think anything that requires a machine to do most of the work (especially the locomotive aspect) is a sport.

BluRayHiDef

Sport and atheleticism are not mutually inclusive.

I believe that they are. Any activity that is competitive, but doesn't require athleticism (i.e. physically demanding bodily locomotion/ movements) is merely a game. For example, poker and video-game tournaments are competitive, but I don't think they're sports. The same thing goes for racing.

Believe whatever you wish. In this case that belief is simply wrong.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] In my opinion, then yes, it would be a sport. kingkong0124

I'll have to agree with you on that. However, I think I gave bad examples. I should have provided an example which involved operating machinery. I just don't think anything that requires a machine to do most of the work (especially the locomotive aspect) is a sport.

That doesn't change the fact that it's doesn't require athleticism. It's competitive, but that's it.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

I'll have to agree with you on that. However, I think I gave bad examples. I should have provided an example which involved operating machinery. I just don't think anything that requires a machine to do most of the work (especially the locomotive aspect) is a sport.

BluRayHiDef

That doesn't change the fact that it's doesn't require athleticism. It's competitive, but that's it.

Source

Sport is all forms of competitive physical activity which,[1] through casual or organised participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical fitness and provide entertainment to participants.[2] Hundreds of sports exist, from those requiring only two participants, through to those with hundreds of simultaneous participants, either in teams or competing as individuals. Sport is generally recognised as activities which are based in physical athleticism or physical dexterity, with the largest major competitions such as the Olympic Games admitting only sports meeting this definition,[3] and other organisations such as the Council of Europe using definitions precluding activities without a physical element from classification as sports.[2] However, a number of competitive, but non-physical, actvities claim recognition as mind sports. The International Olympic Committee (through ARISF) recognises both chess and bridge as bona fide sports, and SportAccord, the international sports federation association, recognises five non-physical sports,[4][5] although limits the amount of mind games which can be admitted as sports.[1]Wikipedia Article

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

I'll have to agree with you on that. However, I think I gave bad examples. I should have provided an example which involved operating machinery. I just don't think anything that requires a machine to do most of the work (especially the locomotive aspect) is a sport.

BluRayHiDef

That doesn't change the fact that it's doesn't require athleticism. It's competitive, but that's it.

Only it does require atheleticism. You don't get the kind of physical conditioning required to do it without atheleticism.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] Also, you have to admit it probably takes a lot more courage than other sports, considering the fact that so many people have been killed in crashes. thegerg

That doesn't change the fact that it's doesn't require athleticism. It's competitive, but that's it.

Well according to him atheleticism is bodily locomotion, so I guess every person is an athlete then.

[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

That doesn't change the fact that it's doesn't require athleticism. It's competitive, but that's it.

worlock77

Well according to him atheleticism is bodily locomotion, so I guess every person is an athlete then.

I should have been more specific. I think it's obvoius that I meant physical athleticsm. Anyhow, it's not just bodily locomotion, it's PHYSICALLY DEMANDING bodily locomotion. Don't twist my words.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] You seem to be confused. Professional level racing does require athleticism. Do you know what that word means?BluRayHiDef

Well according to him atheleticism is bodily locomotion, so I guess every person is an athlete then.

I should have been more specific. I think it's obvoius that I meant physical athleticsm. Anyhow, it's not just bodily locomotion, it's PHYSICALLY DEMANDING bodily locomotion. Don't twist my words.

So when I pick up and carry a 30 lb bag of dog food I'm being an athlete? Cool.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Well according to him atheleticism is bodily locomotion, so I guess every person is an athlete then.

worlock77

I should have been more specific. I think it's obvoius that I meant physical athleticsm. Anyhow, it's not just bodily locomotion, it's PHYSICALLY DEMANDING bodily locomotion. Don't twist my words.

So when I pick up and carry a 30 lb bag of dog food I'm being an athlete? Cool.

Now you're taking what I said out of context. It has to be both physically demanding AND competitive.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

I should have been more specific. I think it's obvoius that I meant physical athleticsm. Anyhow, it's not just bodily locomotion, it's PHYSICALLY DEMANDING bodily locomotion. Don't twist my words.

BluRayHiDef

So when I pick up and carry a 30 lb bag of dog food I'm being an athlete? Cool.

Now you're taking what I said out of context. It has to be both physically demanding AND competitive.

I'm not taking what you say out of question, you're simply moving the goalposts. And no, something does not have to be competitive to be athletic. Nor does something have to be athletic to be a sport.

I consider athletes to be incredibly physically fit people who compete at professional level sports. Endurance, which "stock" car drivers seem to have plenty of, is just one part of fitness so no I wouldn't consider stock car drivers to be athletes. I'm sure there are probably a few but most of them aren't.

Also, I used the term athletes specifically to refer to pros. Anyone can become athletic with training.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

So when I pick up and carry a 30 lb bag of dog food I'm being an athlete? Cool.

worlock77

Now you're taking what I said out of context. It has to be both physically demanding AND competitive.

I'm not taking what you say out of question, you're simply moving the goalposts. And no, something does not have to be competitive to be athletic. Nor does something have to be athletic to be a sport.

Now you're just being a fool. I never said that something has to be competitive to be athletic. I said something has to require physical athleticism (i.e. physically demanding bodily locomotion/ movements) AND has to be competitive to be a sport.

Article.

Sport is generally recognised as activities which are based in physical athleticism or physical dexterity, with the largest major competitions such as the Olympic Games admitting only sports meeting this definition,[3] and other organisations such as the Council of Europe using definitions precluding activities without a physical element from classification as sports.[2] Article

The Olympic Games and the Council of Europe agrees with me. We're done.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

Now you're taking what I said out of context. It has to be both physically demanding AND competitive.

BluRayHiDef

I'm not taking what you say out of question, you're simply moving the goalposts. And no, something does not have to be competitive to be athletic. Nor does something have to be athletic to be a sport.

Now you're just being a fool. I never said that something has to be competitive to be athletic. I said something has to require physical athleticism (i.e. physically demanding bodily locomotion/ movements) AND has to be competitive to be a sport.

What? You just f*cking said that something has to be physically demanding and competitive to be atheletic. You literally just said that. It's right there in the quote chain on this very post.

Article.

[quote="Article"]Sport is generally recognised as activities which are based in physical athleticism or physical dexterity, with the largest major competitions such as the Olympic Games admitting only sports meeting this definition,[3] and other organisations such as the Council of Europe using definitions precluding activities without a physical element from classification as sports.[2] BluRayHiDef

The Olympic Games and the Council of Europe agrees with me. We're done.

Sure. The Olympics, being a business that takes in tens of millions on athletic sports, totally doesn't have an agenda to promte there.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

I'm not taking what you say out of question, you're simply moving the goalposts. And no, something does not have to be competitive to be athletic. Nor does something have to be athletic to be a sport.

worlock77

Now you're just being a fool. I never said that something has to be competitive to be athletic. I said something has to require physical athleticism (i.e. physically demanding bodily locomotion/ movements) AND has to be competitive to be a sport.

What? You just f*cking said that something has to be physically demanding and competitive to be atheletic. You literally just said that. It's right there in the quote chain on this very post.

You're a fool. "Something has to be competitive to be athletic" =/= "It has to be both physically demanding AND competitive." Literally shaking my head right now.

I guess all the weight training (something Mark Martin, who is 53 years old, has been doing for 20 years) and conditioning training that drivers do to help them endure the stresses and strains of racing does not make them athletes though football players doing the same thing are? I said it before and I will say it again, those playing stick and ball sports would not be classified as athletes according to many here who are trying to define what an athlete is.

Only 11 players of a football team are playing at anytime, everyone else is either sitting or standing around. Most of a baseball team is sitting on the bench during a game though 7 are standing around for the most part, waiting on someone to possible hit the ball with a stick. Basketball has the majority of it's players sitting on the bench while 5 run up and down the court just to throw a ball through a steel hoop. There may be some jumping going on, but again, one doesn't have to be an athlete to do either of those things.

Track events are endurance events with a runner trying to ensure he or she endures the length of the race be it 100 meters or 26.5 miles. The long jump requires just speed and strength, but anyone can jump.

Racing requires physical stamina, strength, ability, and fast reaction times as well as the ability to think faster than most people can. Those are attributes that make someone an athlete.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] Also, you have to admit it probably takes a lot more courage than other sports, considering the fact that so many people have been killed in crashes. worlock77

That doesn't change the fact that it's doesn't require athleticism. It's competitive, but that's it.

Only it does require atheleticism. You don't get the kind of physical conditioning required to do it without atheleticism.

Have you ever seen Tony Stewart?

Listen.. Nascar is a sport. Indy racing is a sport.. But the drivers are not "athletes." No way, no how.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

Article.

[quote="Article"]Sport is generally recognised as activities which are based in physical athleticism or physical dexterity, with the largest major competitions such as the Olympic Games admitting only sports meeting this definition,[3] and other organisations such as the Council of Europe using definitions precluding activities without a physical element from classification as sports.[2] thegerg

The Olympic Games and the Council of Europe agrees with me. We're done.

My dude, are you a fool? This is what that quote literally says: "Sport is generally recognised as activities which are based in physical athleticism or physical dexterity, with the largest major competitions such as the Olympic Games admitting only sports meeting this definition." How can you not see that this is in agreement with my definition? Can you not read? This is as clear as day.

Being able to withstand high temperatures and physical forces while operating machinery is not athletic. If that were the case, farmers would be considered athletes.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] No. What you posted does not show that the Olympic games agrees with your silly definition of "athleticism." thegerg

My dude, are you a fool? This is what that quote literally says: "Sport is generally recognised as activities which are based in physical athleticism or physical dexterity, with the largest major competitions such as the Olympic Games admitting only sports meeting this definition." How can you not see that this is in agreement with my definition? Can you not read? This is as clear as day.

You're being a fool. Physical athleticism, which is the term used in that quote, means physical locomotion/ movement (I've used "movement" as part of my definition in the past). Running, kicking a ball, tacklking, bouncing a ball down a court, etc are all physical athleticism. Also, keep in mind that when I've used the word "athleticism", I've either put the word "physical" in front of it, or I've used it in a context in which I meant physical athleticism. At this point, you're arguing about semantics. You know exactly what I meant. Anyhow, the Olympic Games agrees with me. We're done.

I'm not sure that driving qualifies as athleticism. Sure, it require physical dexterity and powerful endurance while putting up with inhuman temperatures. However, it does not involve the same level of mobility that standard sports do. Then again, weight lifting is a sport IIRC. So, fvck beer; I can't think.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="thegerg"] That says nothing about a requirement for locomotion or any of the other requirements you've placed on an action for it to be athletic. The word athletic has definition, get a dictionary. thegerg

You're being a fool. Physical athleticism, which is the term used in that quote, means physical locomotion/ movement (I've used "movement" as part of my definition in the past). Running, kicking a ball, tacklking, bouncing a ball down a court, etc are all physical athleticism. Also, keep in mind that when I've used the word "athleticism", I've either put the word "physical" in front of it, or I've used it in a context in which I meant physical athleticism. At this point, you're arguing about semantics. You know exactly what I meant. Anyhow, the Olympic Games agrees with me. We're done.

Are you a fool? I just said that you're arguing about semantics. What I meant is what is important; not the exact words that I used.