Are US soilders deing for "our freedom"?

the simple answer is no.not in a million years is a bunch ofpeople on camels going to come here and take over a super power. Now the reason i say this is not to bash soldiers in anyway (I think solders do die for a good cause but "our freedoms" are not one of them).

My point is sometimes when people disagree with the war Conservatives willsay "those solders are dieing so you can disagree" which is completely not true. Its just another example of how conservatives love toassociate everything with "freedom"

WTF thread no. 40372792222281928499...Silchas

Is that today or of all time?

Not really....When soldiers start dying on US soil....then they fight for your freedom.

And it kind of depends on the country invading you.

the simple answer is no.not in a million years is a bunch ofpeople on camels going to come here and take over a super power. Now the reason i say this is not to bash soldiers in anyway (I think solders do die for a good cause but "our freedoms" are not one of them).

My point is sometimes when people disagree with the war Conservatives willsay "those solders are dieing so you can disagree" which is completely not true. Its just another example of how conservatives love toassociate everything with "freedom"

killtactics

You're right they're dieing for SOMEONE ELSES freedom. How about thinking of the Iraqis who had to deal with a dictator that executed thousands during his reign. They're fighting for a good cause jus tbecause it doesn't suit you doesn't mean its wrong.

Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.Darthmatt

So freedom should maybe reserved for white people.

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.bentleg

So freedom should maybe reserved for white people.

[QUOTE="killtactics"]

the simple answer is no.not in a million years is a bunch ofpeople on camels going to come here and take over a super power. Now the reason i say this is not to bash soldiers in anyway (I think solders do die for a good cause but "our freedoms" are not one of them).

My point is sometimes when people disagree with the war Conservatives willsay "those solders are dieing so you can disagree" which is completely not true. Its just another example of how conservatives love toassociate everything with "freedom"

mealex

You're right they're dieing for SOMEONE ELSES freedom. How about thinking of the Iraqis who had to deal with a dictator that executed thousands during his reign. They're fighting for a good cause jus tbecause it doesn't suit you doesn't mean its wrong.

Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.Darthmatt

[QUOTE="mealex"][QUOTE="killtactics"]

the simple answer is no.not in a million years is a bunch ofpeople on camels going to come here and take over a super power. Now the reason i say this is not to bash soldiers in anyway (I think solders do die for a good cause but "our freedoms" are not one of them).

My point is sometimes when people disagree with the war Conservatives willsay "those solders are dieing so you can disagree" which is completely not true. Its just another example of how conservatives love toassociate everything with "freedom"

killtactics

You're right they're dieing for SOMEONE ELSES freedom. How about thinking of the Iraqis who had to deal with a dictator that executed thousands during his reign. They're fighting for a good cause jus tbecause it doesn't suit you doesn't mean its wrong.

The way you toned the paragraph makes it sound as if you think its wrong.

[QUOTE="bentleg"]

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.Darthmatt

So freedom should maybe reserved for white people.

No but america is controlled by white people. And why shouldn't america play world police they are the only country in the postion to actually do anything. And yes darfur is a bad situation but the US cannot be everywhere and there is attempts by other african nations to help out.

[QUOTE="Silchas"]WTF thread no. 40372792222281928499...Laserwolf65

Is that today or of all time?

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.killtactics

Our soldiers are dying because our CRIMINAL (oh I mean president) likes to think he has big cajones.....

Seriously, our president is a criminal. I can't believe he goes and gives a convicted criminal, who threatened national security a get out of jail free card, while he ILLEGALLY spies on U.S. residents...He's rpobably spying on me... Beyond that, the dude refuses a court order to turn over documents, because he has "executive right" or whatever.

I really do hope they go through with putting Bush in criminal content.

Bring the troops home.

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"][QUOTE="bentleg"]

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.bentleg

So freedom should maybe reserved for white people.

No but america is controlled by white people. And why shouldn't america play world police they are the only country in the postion to actually do anything. And yes darfur is a bad situation but the US cannot be everywhere and there is attempts by other african nations to help out.

Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.Darthmatt

The great thing about this is we have lost our freedoms due to are fight on terrorism.. Its so funny that many people don't even realize this.

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.sSubZerOo

The great thing about this is we have lost our freedoms due to are fight on terrorism.. Its so funny that many people don't even realize this.

So how exactly have your loss of freedoms affected you?

the simple answer is no.not in a million years is a bunch ofpeople on camels going to come here and take over a super power. Now the reason i say this is not to bash soldiers in anyway (I think solders do die for a good cause but "our freedoms" are not one of them).

My point is sometimes when people disagree with the war Conservatives willsay "those solders are dieing so you can disagree" which is completely not true. Its just another example of how conservatives love toassociate everything with "freedom"

killtactics

That may be the case, but they are fighting to try and bring freedom to other people and there is nothing more honorable than fighting for others. Anybody can fight for their own people, but it takes somebody else to fight for others they don't even know.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.bentleg

The great thing about this is we have lost our freedoms due to are fight on terrorism.. Its so funny that many people don't even realize this.

So how exactly have your loss of freedoms affected you?

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.bentleg

The great thing about this is we have lost our freedoms due to are fight on terrorism.. Its so funny that many people don't even realize this.

So how exactly have your loss of freedoms affected you?

You can't say Bong Hits 4 Jesus at college.....

[QUOTE="bentleg"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.Darthmatt

The great thing about this is we have lost our freedoms due to are fight on terrorism.. Its so funny that many people don't even realize this.

So how exactly have your loss of freedoms affected you?

Belive it or not the goverment has got better things too do then spy on you. The only freedom that matters is the freedom of thought and you have no problem exercising that one do you?

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.bentleg

The great thing about this is we have lost our freedoms due to are fight on terrorism.. Its so funny that many people don't even realize this.

So how exactly have your loss of freedoms affected you?

"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security." Benjamin Franklin

1. Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigations.
2. Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records questions.
3. Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.
4. Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
5. Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.
6. Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial. Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.

[QUOTE="killtactics"]

the simple answer is no.not in a million years is a bunch ofpeople on camels going to come here and take over a super power. Now the reason i say this is not to bash soldiers in anyway (I think solders do die for a good cause but "our freedoms" are not one of them).

My point is sometimes when people disagree with the war Conservatives willsay "those solders are dieing so you can disagree" which is completely not true. Its just another example of how conservatives love toassociate everything with "freedom"

xXBuffJeffXx

That may be the case, but they are fighting to try and bring freedom to other people and there is nothing more honorable than fighting for others. Anybody can fight for their own people, but it takes somebody else to fight for others they don't even know.

Are they stamping out forms with a cast die for our freedom? No, I don't think so.Dark__Link

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.bentleg

So freedom should maybe reserved for white people.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.bentleg

The great thing about this is we have lost our freedoms due to are fight on terrorism.. Its so funny that many people don't even realize this.

So how exactly have your loss of freedoms affected you?

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"]Are they stamping out forms with a cast die for our freedom? No, I don't think so.killtactics

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"][QUOTE="bentleg"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.bentleg

The great thing about this is we have lost our freedoms due to are fight on terrorism.. Its so funny that many people don't even realize this.

So how exactly have your loss of freedoms affected you?

Belive it or not the goverment has got better things too do then spy on you. The only freedom that matters is the freedom of thought and you have no problem exercising that one do you?

Many of you people are looking at this argument in a purely simplistic fashion. Certainly defending your homeland against a foreign invasion would be dying for freedom. But, there are more aspects to homeland defense and security than simply fighting against an invading army. Preventing that army from achieving certain goals or advances. Preventing them from gaining certain resources. Securing strategic resources for your own country. Etc., etc. etc. All of those in some way, allow and secure the freedom for your home country.sonicare

This is even with the wild assumption Saddam was planning a military excursion.....

WTF you set it up as a question then Ram you view down our throats..shame my friend shame..and yes they are my sister's in the army....if they weren't over there keeping **** hole terrorist at bay you wouldn't be saying that..but like everyone else in the mainstream you see politics before realitylovemenow

No one is saying that the soldiers are doing a bad job etc etc.. This is pure political, and no they are not fighting for our freedoms.. We are in iraq that had nothing to do with in our freedoms.. On the contrary sense 9/11 our government has stripped away alot of our rights.. Infact 95% of the attacks in Iraq has nothing to do with the attacks from the terrorist group on 9/11.. WE ARE NOW ARMING those extremists in agreement to go after AQ.. Pure genious I know.

[QUOTE="bentleg"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.sSubZerOo

The great thing about this is we have lost our freedoms due to are fight on terrorism.. Its so funny that many people don't even realize this.

So how exactly have your loss of freedoms affected you?

"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security." Benjamin Franklin

1. Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigations.
2. Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records questions.
3. Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.
4. Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
5. Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.
6. Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial. Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.

Isn't it amazing? The only people actuallytaking away our freedom is our own goverment.

[QUOTE="lovemenow"]WTF you set it up as a question then Ram you view down our throats..shame my friend shame..and yes they are my sister's in the army....if they weren't over there keeping **** hole terrorist at bay you wouldn't be saying that..but like everyone else in the mainstream you see politics before realitysSubZerOo

No one is saying that the soldiers are doing a bad job etc etc.. This is pure political, and no they are not fighting for our freedoms.. We are in iraq that had nothing to do with in our freedoms.. On the contrary sense 9/11 our government has stripped away alot of our rights.. Infact 95% of the attacks in Iraq has nothing to do with the attacks from the terrorist group on 9/11.. WE ARE NOW ARMING those extremists in agreement to go after AQ.. Pure genious I know.

who said it has to be from terrorist groups:|..a single person trying to strike fear into people by blowing himself up using terrorist tactics is enough..the soldiers are fighting for our freedom..and what freedom has been taken away from you personally..what cant you do that you've been doing before??? i doubt your daily life has changed much from the occasional granny search at the airport..and were not arming the terrorist where seeking out the moderate Muslims who are sick of the crap that the terrorist are doing...iraq had much to do with our freedoms because we initially went in there to find WMD that could have been used against us..obviously we failed in that but in the midst of it a new threat formed and now we must face it or it'll come to us..

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="lovemenow"]WTF you set it up as a question then Ram you view down our throats..shame my friend shame..and yes they are my sister's in the army....if they weren't over there keeping **** hole terrorist at bay you wouldn't be saying that..but like everyone else in the mainstream you see politics before realitylovemenow

No one is saying that the soldiers are doing a bad job etc etc.. This is pure political, and no they are not fighting for our freedoms.. We are in iraq that had nothing to do with in our freedoms.. On the contrary sense 9/11 our government has stripped away alot of our rights.. Infact 95% of the attacks in Iraq has nothing to do with the attacks from the terrorist group on 9/11.. WE ARE NOW ARMING those extremists in agreement to go after AQ.. Pure genious I know.

who said it has to be from terrorist groups:|..a single person trying to strike fear into people by blowing himself up using terrorist tactics is enough..the soldiers are fighting for our freedom..and what freedom has been taken away from you personally..what cant you do that you've been doing before??? i doubt your daily life has changed much from the occasional granny search at the airport..and were not arming the terrorist where seeking out the moderate Muslims who are sick of the crap that the terrorist are doing...iraq had much to do with our freedoms because we initially went in there to find WMD that could have been used against us..obviously we failed in that but in the midst of it a new threat formed and now we must face it or it'll come to us..

Yep keep saying that to your self.. After all arming our enemies of our enemies worked so well with Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan. Yeah lol right, I guess these terrorists are simpletons that can't remotely be in two places at once.. This is the thinking and logic of a 5 year old.. Terrorism has infact increased and become stronger with our invasion in Iraq.. If anything AQ is saying thank you to the US because they never had so many people turn out for their group before.

Its so working too, oh thats why we have not even caught Bin Ladin yet.. Hell we let him slip away from pulling troops in a zone with no real excuse that seemed legit other then incompetence.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="lovemenow"]WTF you set it up as a question then Ram you view down our throats..shame my friend shame..and yes they are my sister's in the army....if they weren't over there keeping **** hole terrorist at bay you wouldn't be saying that..but like everyone else in the mainstream you see politics before realitylovemenow

No one is saying that the soldiers are doing a bad job etc etc.. This is pure political, and no they are not fighting for our freedoms.. We are in iraq that had nothing to do with in our freedoms.. On the contrary sense 9/11 our government has stripped away alot of our rights.. Infact 95% of the attacks in Iraq has nothing to do with the attacks from the terrorist group on 9/11.. WE ARE NOW ARMING those extremists in agreement to go after AQ.. Pure genious I know.

who said it has to be from terrorist groups:|..a single person trying to strike fear into people by blowing himself up using terrorist tactics is enough..the soldiers are fighting for our freedom..and what freedom has been taken away from you personally..what cant you do that you've been doing before??? i doubt your daily life has changed much from the occasional granny search at the airport..and were not arming the terrorist where seeking out the moderate Muslims who are sick of the crap that the terrorist are doing...iraq had much to do with our freedoms because we initially went in there to find WMD that could have been used against us..obviously we failed in that but in the midst of it a new threat formed and now we must face it or it'll come to us..

He already listed the freedoms being trampled on, and mind you, these are constitutionally garunteed rights. So what if you can't immediatly feel the ramifications of these infringements? Does that mean you didn't loose any freedom garunteed by the constitution? Heck no! Of course you did. The framers of the constitution puts those garuntees in for a reason. And not to mention, any person familar with history can tell you this is the EXACT method in taking away greater freedoms. They don't just take everything away immediatly, but rather start by taking away your protections, THEN they can remove more and more freedoms. It's a very slippery slope we have started on.

Also, your evaluation of Iraq is waaay off. We are not arming moderates, we are arming Sunni militias and dissidents. Iraq had nothing to do with our freedom. The WMD claim is bogus, and even IF they were there, there is absolute 100% ZERO proof they planned on using it against us.

Soldiers fighting for the citizen's freedom is just a cute tag line. It's more like fighting for their government's supremacy. And the safety of their customers/tax payers.

They never exactly mentioned what freedom of yours that they are fighting for. Perhap they are fighting for your freedom to live and continue to pay taxes. They just leave the to live and continue to pay taxes partout.

Government doesn't care when, where nor how you die. You're just another statistic. Just another face, another body they have met. Their concern is revenue, not you. The only part about keeping you alive that intrests them is the fact that a dead person doesn't generate revenue nor contribute to the economy.

It's a you watch my back I'll watch your's thing. They only help because they need you and you help them because you think you need them.

"To be free, you need to be free from terrorism."

That is absolutely 100% not the definition or requirements of freedom. By the way, Iraq had practically ZERO terrorism prior to the war...

[QUOTE="bentleg"]

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]Back in WW2 yes. Then, if Nazis took over Europe, or if Japan dominated the Pacific, we would be done. Now, the recent wars are all about politics and special interest. Iraq was never going to take away our freedom even with Sadam in charge. All we have done is make Iraq an easier place for terrorists to train their forces and attack us.Darthmatt

So freedom should maybe reserved for white people.

Yeah but, there is no oil in Darfur.

Seriously that is probably the only reason for not going there. If they had oil we would be there in a heartbeat.

"To be free, you need to be free from terrorism."

That is absolutely 100% not the definition or requirements of freedom. By the way, Iraq had practically ZERO terrorism prior to the war...

dnuggs40

My statement makes perfect sense and I agree things aren't working out the way we hoped for. We underestimeated the number of terrorists and terrorist wanna-bees when the war started. And, the civil disputes that are also going on. But, that doesn't mean we should go into retreat mode and stop fighting for freedom from terrorism for us or them.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

"To be free, you need to be free from terrorism."

That is absolutely 100% not the definition or requirements of freedom. By the way, Iraq had practically ZERO terrorism prior to the war...

FPSGunnerDude

My statement makes perfect sense and I agree things aren't working out the way we hoped for. We underestimeated the number of terrorists and terrorist wanna-bees when the war started. And, the civil disputes that are also going on. But, that doesn't mean we should go into retreat mode and stop fighting for freedom from terrorism for us or them.

No, it doesn't make sense. I suggest you look up freedom in the dictionary. Also, I suggest you read what the framers of our constitutions though on the subject. For instance, I will reiterate something sSubZeroSs already posted:

""Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security." Benjamin Franklin