Are you conservitive or liberal

I am a libertarian, but that's a very vague definition. I'm against torture, the death penalty, abortion, government spending, taxes, and government instituted marriages. I'm for lenient immigration rules and the separation of church and state.

Genetic_Code

That's refreshing. Someone that's against capital punishment AND is Pro-Life! I've always found it to be very odd that many liberals have their priorities mixed up. If you're going to be against some cold blooded killers being executed, then you should absolutely also support the most innocent an defenseless of all, the unborn.

I'm %100 Pro-Life. All life is precious.

I'm as liberal as they come. Conservatism imo has almost ruined the U.S. with it's old-fashioned "values". Get rid of religion, legalize drugs, ban handguns. Give more money to the poor, take away money from the rich. Bring our troops out of Iraq. Bigboi500

You're unconstitutional. Canada or a European nation would better suit you, perhaps?

I'm conservative. It's based on logic and a true understanding of human nature. I reject utopian ideals.MayorJohnny

Dystopian sentiment will surely not get you anywhere.

I'm as liberal as they come. Conservatism imo has almost ruined the U.S. with it's old-fashioned "values". Get rid of religion, legalize drugs, ban handguns. Give more money to the poor, take away money from the rich. Bring our troops out of Iraq. Bigboi500

Getting rid of religion would incorporate state atheism in the same vein as the Soviet Union. Banning handguns would be useless because it criminals would still get ahold of them through illegal means. Redistributing the wealth would redistribute the responsibilities of each member of society and as a result, there wouldn't be any value being placed on higher employment efficiency. More people would be inclined to work less. We need to bring our troops out of Iraq, but we must ensure that they have a stable democracy before doing so.

[QUOTE="MayorJohnny"]I'm conservative. It's based on logic and a true understanding of human nature. I reject utopian ideals.hrmuffnstuff

Dystopian sentiment will surely not get you anywhere.

Hah! So, it's either hot or cold?

Utopian ideals will always fails because the means to implement them are too unrealistic and suppresses human nature. The best to do is to encourage a moral, ethical society with healthy competition.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]I'm as liberal as they come. Conservatism imo has almost ruined the U.S. with it's old-fashioned "values". Get rid of religion, legalize drugs, ban handguns. Give more money to the poor, take away money from the rich. Bring our troops out of Iraq. MayorJohnny

You're unconstitutional. Canada or a European nation would better suit you, perhaps?

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]

I am a libertarian, but that's a very vague definition. I'm against torture, the death penalty, abortion, government spending, taxes, and government instituted marriages. I'm for lenient immigration rules and the separation of church and state.

MayorJohnny

That's refreshing. Someone that's against capital punishment AND is Pro-Life! I've always found it to be very odd that many liberals have their priorities mixed up. If you're going to be against some cold blooded killers being executed, then you should absolutely also support the most innocent an defenseless of all, the unborn.

I'm %100 Pro-Life. All life is precious.

I'm okay with the death penalty if the criminal was, without a doubt, guilty of a crime punishable by death and there were cheaper ways of executing him. However, I hear all too often about innocent men's lives being taken away. Abortion on the other hand is a no-brainer.

[QUOTE="MayorJohnny"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]I'm as liberal as they come. Conservatism imo has almost ruined the U.S. with it's old-fashioned "values". Get rid of religion, legalize drugs, ban handguns. Give more money to the poor, take away money from the rich. Bring our troops out of Iraq. Bigboi500

You're unconstitutional. Canada or a European nation would better suit you, perhaps?

That's your comeback?

It's ironic that people such as you love "freedom" yet often support things that are contrary to the Bill of Rights.

You remind me of those law makers back in the day that tried to deport John Lennon for preaching peace and understanding. Go figure.Bigboi500

Yet, you want the government to banish religion.

[QUOTE="MayorJohnny"][QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]

I am a libertarian, but that's a very vague definition. I'm against torture, the death penalty, abortion, government spending, taxes, and government instituted marriages. I'm for lenient immigration rules and the separation of church and state.

Genetic_Code

That's refreshing. Someone that's against capital punishment AND is Pro-Life! I've always found it to be very odd that many liberals have their priorities mixed up. If you're going to be against some cold blooded killers being executed, then you should absolutely also support the most innocent an defenseless of all, the unborn.

I'm %100 Pro-Life. All life is precious.

I'm okay with the death penalty if the criminal was, without a doubt, guilty of a crime punishable by death and there were cheaper ways of executing him. However, I hear all too often about innocent men's lives being taken away. Abortion on the other hand is a no-brainer.

Yeah, I agree. I just try not to seem too enthusiastic about it because I'm a Christian and I don't want to be cold.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]I'm as liberal as they come. Conservatism imo has almost ruined the U.S. with it's old-fashioned "values". Get rid of religion, legalize drugs, ban handguns. Give more money to the poor, take away money from the rich. Bring our troops out of Iraq. Genetic_Code

Getting rid of religion would incorporate state atheism in the same vein as the Soviet Union. Banning handguns would be useless because it criminals would still get ahold of them through illegal means. Redistributing the wealth would redistribute the responsibilities of each member of society and as a result, there wouldn't be any value being placed on higher employment efficiency. More people would be inclined to work less. We need to bring our troops out of Iraq, but we must ensure that they have a stable democracy before doing so.

Why should we spill our blood anymore for the lazy Iraq people that wont help themselves? We've given them plenty of time to fix their own problems. That billion bucks a week could really help the poor people in this country do something and help infrastructure and schools, roads, bridges but it's going to waste right now.

Religion is partly the reason we are in this war in the first place. It divides people and stirs up hate. The poor people in this country have no voice what so ever, have no hope of a future with no chance of a decent education, no chance for a decent job, so most poor people have to resort to selling drugs, their bodies, or get involved in organised crime or join gangs.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]You remind me of those law makers back in the day that tried to deport John Lennon for preaching peace and understanding. Go figure.Genetic_Code

Yet, you want the government to banish religion.

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]I'm as liberal as they come. Conservatism imo has almost ruined the U.S. with it's old-fashioned "values". Get rid of religion, legalize drugs, ban handguns. Give more money to the poor, take away money from the rich. Bring our troops out of Iraq. Bigboi500

Getting rid of religion would incorporate state atheism in the same vein as the Soviet Union. Banning handguns would be useless because it criminals would still get ahold of them through illegal means. Redistributing the wealth would redistribute the responsibilities of each member of society and as a result, there wouldn't be any value being placed on higher employment efficiency. More people would be inclined to work less. We need to bring our troops out of Iraq, but we must ensure that they have a stable democracy before doing so.

Why should we spill our blood anymore for the lazy Iraq people that wont help themselves? We've given them plenty of time to fix their own problems. That billion bucks a week could really help the poor people in this country do something and help infrastructure and schools, roads, bridges but it's going to waste right now.

Religion is partly the reason we are in this war in the first place. It divides people and stirs up hate. The poor people in this country have no voice what so ever, have no hope of a future with no chance of a decent education, no chance for a decent job, so most poor people have to resort to selling drugs, their bodies, or get involved in organised crime or join gangs.

Religion can be partly to blame for a lot of things. Not all people are perverse. Also, in America, Christianity is the most prominent. Why are Christians singled out by these "tolerant" humanists? Oh yeah, because "teh Christians are bigots!1"

Also, what happened to personal responsibility!? There are bad people. Rich or poor. The government can't solve everything. It needs to be more efficient, and yet get out of our way too!

[QUOTE="hrmuffnstuff"]

[QUOTE="MayorJohnny"]I'm conservative. It's based on logic and a true understanding of human nature. I reject utopian ideals.MayorJohnny

Dystopian sentiment will surely not get you anywhere.

Hah! So, it's either hot or cold?

Utopian ideals will always fails because the means to implement them are too unrealistic and suppresses human nature. The best to do is to encourage a moral, ethical society with healthy competition.

Utopian sentiment embraces humanity. While it may be a little too idealistic in realistic terms, this is what big, potentially revolutionary ideas are borne from.

The best thing to do is work from a practical base, and slowly introduce your ideals in swallowable increments.

Youre words "healthy competition" disturb me though. The "human race" is not a race in literal terms, nor should it be.

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]You remind me of those law makers back in the day that tried to deport John Lennon for preaching peace and understanding. Go figure.Bigboi500

Yet, you want the government to banish religion.

Since when has the US government promoted Christianity? Oh, because of President Bush? Uh, this nation was founded with Christian values. That's a fact, buddy.

So, I guess that "Separation" also means that politicians have to stop going to church and saying "God bless America" just so a small percentage of Americans won't be offended?

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"][QUOTE="MayorJohnny"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]I'm as liberal as they come. Conservatism imo has almost ruined the U.S. with it's old-fashioned "values". Get rid of religion, legalize drugs, ban handguns. Give more money to the poor, take away money from the rich. Bring our troops out of Iraq. MayorJohnny

You're unconstitutional. Canada or a European nation would better suit you, perhaps?

That's your comeback?

It's ironic that people such as you love "freedom" yet often support things that are contrary to the Bill of Rights.

Where I live cops wont even come through our neighborhoods at all. We could have orgies in the street with monkey knife fighting and the police wouldn't dare try to stop it. Apparently there are two worlds in the good ole U.S. of A. ;)

[QUOTE="MayorJohnny"][QUOTE="hrmuffnstuff"]

[QUOTE="MayorJohnny"]I'm conservative. It's based on logic and a true understanding of human nature. I reject utopian ideals.hrmuffnstuff

Dystopian sentiment will surely not get you anywhere.

Hah! So, it's either hot or cold?

Utopian ideals will always fails because the means to implement them are too unrealistic and suppresses human nature. The best to do is to encourage a moral, ethical society with healthy competition.

Utopian sentiment embraces humanity. While it may be a little too idealistic in realistic terms, this is what big, potentially revolutionary ideas are borne from.

The best thing to do is work from a practical base, and slowly introduce your ideals in swallowable increments.

Youre words "healthy competition" disturb me though. The "human race" is not a race in literal terms, nor should it be.

I mean a free market economy with reasonable and efficient regulations to help decrease corruption and people taking advantage of others. At the same time, I want a limited yet efficient government that is more accountable by the voters.

How can these utopians claim to be so "logical" and embrace "the sciences," and yet want to implement the most unrealistically idealistic form of society all at once?

[QUOTE="MayorJohnny"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"][QUOTE="MayorJohnny"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]I'm as liberal as they come. Conservatism imo has almost ruined the U.S. with it's old-fashioned "values". Get rid of religion, legalize drugs, ban handguns. Give more money to the poor, take away money from the rich. Bring our troops out of Iraq. Bigboi500

You're unconstitutional. Canada or a European nation would better suit you, perhaps?

That's your comeback?

It's ironic that people such as you love "freedom" yet often support things that are contrary to the Bill of Rights.

Where I live cops wont even come through our neighborhoods at all. We could have orgies in the street with monkey knife fighting and the police wouldn't dare try to stop it. Apparently there are two worlds in the good ole U.S. of A. ;)

Hmm? Anarchy? Now that's just way too extreme.

People do have a free will. You can choose to do the right or the wrong thing. However, many of these secular humanists and utopian idealists believe that most morality is "subjective." So, you can't win either way, and a truly orderly and fair society won't be able to exist with relativism. Your hopes and dreams contradict one another.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"][QUOTE="MayorJohnny"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"][QUOTE="MayorJohnny"]

You're unconstitutional. Canada or a European nation would better suit you, perhaps?

MayorJohnny

That's your comeback?

It's ironic that people such as you love "freedom" yet often support things that are contrary to the Bill of Rights.

Where I live cops wont even come through our neighborhoods at all. We could have orgies in the street with monkey knife fighting and the police wouldn't dare try to stop it. Apparently there are two worlds in the good ole U.S. of A. ;)

Hmm? Anarchy? Now that's just way too extreme.

People do have a free will. You can choose to do the right or the wrong thing. However, many of these secular humanists and utopian idealists believe that most morality is "subjective." So, you can't win either way, and a truly orderly and fair society won't be able to exist with relativism. Your hopes and dreams contradict one another.

It's sad that there is no help or voice for the truely poor in this country. Most of the people on the net that have the priveledge of time to peruse internet forums will never understand what really goes on, and holds on to platonic ideals that are not a reality.

I scraped and did things I'm not proud of and can't say here without violating the ToS. I was lucky enough to make it but it wasn't done by the good ole mom and pop apple pie democracy in the sky kind of way.

[QUOTE="hrmuffnstuff"][QUOTE="MayorJohnny"][QUOTE="hrmuffnstuff"]

[QUOTE="MayorJohnny"]I'm conservative. It's based on logic and a true understanding of human nature. I reject utopian ideals.MayorJohnny

Dystopian sentiment will surely not get you anywhere.

Hah! So, it's either hot or cold?

Utopian ideals will always fails because the means to implement them are too unrealistic and suppresses human nature. The best to do is to encourage a moral, ethical society with healthy competition.

Utopian sentiment embraces humanity. While it may be a little too idealistic in realistic terms, this is what big, potentially revolutionary ideas are borne from.

The best thing to do is work from a practical base, and slowly introduce your ideals in swallowable increments.

Youre words "healthy competition" disturb me though. The "human race" is not a race in literal terms, nor should it be.

I mean a free market economy with reasonable and efficient regulations to help decrease corruption and people taking advantage of others. At the same time, I want a limited yet efficient government that is more accountable by the voters.

How can these utopians claim to be so "logical" and embrace "the sciences," and yet want to implement the most unrealistically idealistic form of society all at once?

I'm not sure what to make of you- on the one hand you seem so left-wing, yet in the next statement you are so right-wing.

A free market economy with anti-corruption elements in place is ideal, yet in your next statement you vie for limited governmental control, which is counter-intuitive to your previous statement. A democratic government of any size will always be accountable by the voters, no matter how big or small.

In your final paragraph, you seem to cast off seemingly "big" ideas, which are actually tried and tested ideas in many European countries as "big" ideas, because they actually ARE big in terms of America. America was borne out of extrovert radicals who either left their country or were kicked out because they wanted to try something politically "new" and unconventional from what they were used to. As a result we ended up with a bunch of outspoken extroverts with anarchistic tendencies trying to establish what they viewed as a more "free" and anything-goes country. What they really ended up with was a bunch of a-holes with a dog-eat-dog mentality screwing each other to get ahead with only one pseudo-Utopian goal- MONEY. Nice result. Maybe it's time to go "old-school" again aka Europe.

Sounds like you're swinging sweetly among the lofty middle to upper class and watch to much political tv. I live down in the real world and know that the streets are flooded with handguns already, so it couldn't get much worse as is.

Bigboi500

Nice try, but no, I am not. Can you explain how banning these guns would take them out of their hands?

Why should we spill our blood anymore for the lazy Iraq people that wont help themselves? We've given them plenty of time to fix their own problems. That billion bucks a week could really help the poor people in this country do something and help infrastructure and schools, roads, bridges but it's going to waste right now.

Bigboi500

While I disagree with the basis on which we started this war, I do agree that we could have used the money for other things, but we cannot just leave to early to fix our own problems when a lost nation is in a much worse situation than we are.

Religion is partly the reason we are in this war in the first place. It divides people and stirs up hate. The poor people in this country have no voice what so ever, have no hope of a future with no chance of a decent education, no chance for a decent job, so most poor people have to resort to selling drugs, their bodies, or get involved in organised crime or join gangs.

Bigboi500

Religion has little influence as to how this war started. One of the most prominent atheists, Christopher Hitchens, has been an advocate for the war. You've already made this argument about internal problems in the U.S. I care more for the people whose lives have changed drastically due to our intervention in the War on Terror.

They don't have to banish it, just stop supporting and promoting it. The separation of Church and State was put in the constitution for a reason. Bigboi500

Seperation of Church and State guarantees freedom of religion just as much as freedom from religion.

[QUOTE="MayorJohnny"][QUOTE="hrmuffnstuff"][QUOTE="MayorJohnny"][QUOTE="hrmuffnstuff"]

[QUOTE="MayorJohnny"]I'm conservative. It's based on logic and a true understanding of human nature. I reject utopian ideals.hrmuffnstuff

Dystopian sentiment will surely not get you anywhere.

Hah! So, it's either hot or cold?

Utopian ideals will always fails because the means to implement them are too unrealistic and suppresses human nature. The best to do is to encourage a moral, ethical society with healthy competition.

Utopian sentiment embraces humanity. While it may be a little too idealistic in realistic terms, this is what big, potentially revolutionary ideas are borne from.

The best thing to do is work from a practical base, and slowly introduce your ideals in swallowable increments.

Youre words "healthy competition" disturb me though. The "human race" is not a race in literal terms, nor should it be.

I mean a free market economy with reasonable and efficient regulations to help decrease corruption and people taking advantage of others. At the same time, I want a limited yet efficient government that is more accountable by the voters.

How can these utopians claim to be so "logical" and embrace "the sciences," and yet want to implement the most unrealistically idealistic form of society all at once?

I'm not sure what to make of you- on the one hand you seem so left-wing, yet in the next statement you are so right-wing.

A free market economy with anti-corruption elements in place is ideal, yet in your next statement you vie for limited governmental control, which is counter-intuitive to your previous statement. A democratic government of any size will always be accountable by the voters, no matter how big or small.

In your final paragraph, you seem to cast off seemingly "big" ideas, which are actually tried and tested ideas in many European countries as "big" ideas, because they actually ARE big in terms of America. America was borne out of extrovert radicals who either left their country or were kicked out because they wanted to try something politically "new" and unconventional from what they were used to. As a result we ended up with a bunch of outspoken extroverts with anarchistic tendencies trying to establish what they viewed as a more "free" and anything-goes country. What they really ended up with was a bunch of a-holes with a dog-eat-dog mentality screwing each other to get ahead with only one pseudo-Utopian goal- MONEY. Nice result. Maybe it's time to go "old-school" again aka Europe.

I meant reasonable regulations, not government control. I want less beuacracy. I also believe that states should have more influence in some things than the federal government.

I'm not dealing in "wings." I have a world view, though I don't think that I'm an idealogue. I deal in logic, in what I think makes sense based on an understanding of human nature.

[QUOTE="MayorJohnny"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"][QUOTE="MayorJohnny"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"][QUOTE="MayorJohnny"]

You're unconstitutional. Canada or a European nation would better suit you, perhaps?

Bigboi500

That's your comeback?

It's ironic that people such as you love "freedom" yet often support things that are contrary to the Bill of Rights.

Where I live cops wont even come through our neighborhoods at all. We could have orgies in the street with monkey knife fighting and the police wouldn't dare try to stop it. Apparently there are two worlds in the good ole U.S. of A. ;)

Hmm? Anarchy? Now that's just way too extreme.

People do have a free will. You can choose to do the right or the wrong thing. However, many of these secular humanists and utopian idealists believe that most morality is "subjective." So, you can't win either way, and a truly orderly and fair society won't be able to exist with relativism. Your hopes and dreams contradict one another.

It's sad that there is no help or voice for the truely poor in this country. Most of the people on the net that have the priveledge of time to peruse internet forums will never understand what really goes on, and holds on to platonic ideals that are not a reality.

I scraped and did things I'm not proud of and can't say here without violating the ToS. I was lucky enough to make it but it wasn't done by the good ole mom and pop apple pie democracy in the sky kind of way.

What is that about? I'm a little perplexed.

A God-fearing liberal

Genetic_Code- I apologize if I wrongly assumed you were middle to upper class. If you came from a poor family then you know the struggles and terrible odds against them and what they have to go through just to survive. I also apologize if I offended you about my religious views.

It's obvious we won't agree about the topic which has become off-topic btw. :P It's just that were I come from, the deep south, I've seen religious leaders take advantage of the not so smart and poor people and impose what some would call crazy beliefs on them almost in a cult-type nature so Christianity scares me based on my experiences.

About the handguns I think they should be banned because they are so easy to conceal. Too many people die from handgun violence every day around the world. I understand that people need shotguns and rifles to hunt that's fine, but handguns have no real use. You should listen to Lynard Skinard's "Saturday night special" song and you'd understand what I'm saying about them. They flood poor communities and turn them into war zones. I don't really know how we can get rid of them, but we should try.

[QUOTE="hrmuffnstuff"][QUOTE="MayorJohnny"][QUOTE="hrmuffnstuff"][QUOTE="MayorJohnny"][QUOTE="hrmuffnstuff"]

[QUOTE="MayorJohnny"]I'm conservative. It's based on logic and a true understanding of human nature. I reject utopian ideals.MayorJohnny

Dystopian sentiment will surely not get you anywhere.

Hah! So, it's either hot or cold?

Utopian ideals will always fails because the means to implement them are too unrealistic and suppresses human nature. The best to do is to encourage a moral, ethical society with healthy competition.

Utopian sentiment embraces humanity. While it may be a little too idealistic in realistic terms, this is what big, potentially revolutionary ideas are borne from.

The best thing to do is work from a practical base, and slowly introduce your ideals in swallowable increments.

Youre words "healthy competition" disturb me though. The "human race" is not a race in literal terms, nor should it be.

I mean a free market economy with reasonable and efficient regulations to help decrease corruption and people taking advantage of others. At the same time, I want a limited yet efficient government that is more accountable by the voters.

How can these utopians claim to be so "logical" and embrace "the sciences," and yet want to implement the most unrealistically idealistic form of society all at once?

I'm not sure what to make of you- on the one hand you seem so left-wing, yet in the next statement you are so right-wing.

A free market economy with anti-corruption elements in place is ideal, yet in your next statement you vie for limited governmental control, which is counter-intuitive to your previous statement. A democratic government of any size will always be accountable by the voters, no matter how big or small.

In your final paragraph, you seem to cast off seemingly "big" ideas, which are actually tried and tested ideas in many European countries as "big" ideas, because they actually ARE big in terms of America. America was borne out of extrovert radicals who either left their country or were kicked out because they wanted to try something politically "new" and unconventional from what they were used to. As a result we ended up with a bunch of outspoken extroverts with anarchistic tendencies trying to establish what they viewed as a more "free" and anything-goes country. What they really ended up with was a bunch of a-holes with a dog-eat-dog mentality screwing each other to get ahead with only one pseudo-Utopian goal- MONEY. Nice result. Maybe it's time to go "old-school" again aka Europe.

I meant reasonable regulations, not government control. I want less beuacracy. I also believe that states should have more influence in some things than the federal government.

I'm not dealing in "wings." I have a world view, though I don't think that I'm an idealogue. I deal in logic, in what I think makes sense based on an understanding of human nature.

"reasonable regulations"/"government control"- it is one and the same! Bureaucracy at worst does not accommodate for specific and unique circumstances which require more in-depth scrutiny to be properly resolved, but this argument is pedantic at best.

As for your second and final paragraph, your intuition is commendable. The human condition is the empirical baseline, and nothing else, and all further considerations should be based on, and juxtaposed with logic/reason, and how it interacts/coexists with fundamental human interests, no matter how irrational they may seem. Humans are not robots or bipedal computers- we cannot transcend ourselves, so the only other option is to understand our irrational nature and work with it in logical terms.

Genetic_Code- I apologize if I wrongly assumed you were middle to upper class. If you came from a poor family then you know the struggles and terrible odds against them and what they have to go through just to survive. I also apologize if I offended you about my religious views.

Bigboi500

That's perfectly fine. I live in the heart of the Bible belt and yet I'm an atheist. Is this what you're referring to because I can watch it later if you don't mind. I'm a bit tired right now. :)

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

Genetic_Code- I apologize if I wrongly assumed you were middle to upper class. If you came from a poor family then you know the struggles and terrible odds against them and what they have to go through just to survive. I also apologize if I offended you about my religious views.

Genetic_Code

That's perfectly fine. I live in the heart of the Bible belt and yet I'm an atheist. Is this what you're referring to because I can watch it later if you don't mind. I'm a bit tired right now. :)

Moderate (leaning towards Liberal).