Army general officially orders court-martial on Bradley Manning

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]well thats depends on personal beliefs, but I think it is a good thing to expose crimes and injustice. If you dont think so, then well now we know what kind of person you areairshocker

You still haven't proven that any crimes or injustices were released. Certainly some shocking videos were released, but I can justify almost every single thing a servicemember does in the line of duty because I've been through a lot of the same sh*t.

i......im not even gonna reply, start coming up with some reasoned replies and then you can start talking sh*t.BossPerson

You just did reply...

:lol:

Well thats pretty extreme.

Person0

I did put an almost in there.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]c'mon.......seriously......technically watching CNN can aid the enemy as well thenairshocker

CNN doesn't release classified information. They can also be prevented from doing so by US law, I believe.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]i......im not even gonna reply, start coming up with some reasoned replies and then you can start talking sh*t.airshocker

You just did reply...

:lol:

The government outlined in that Constitution was never supposed to be keeping secrets from its people.

theone86

Wat.

whats CNN talks about can sometimes be more compromising than whats officially listed as 'classified'.............the Abu Grahib prison.....should that not have been leaked? Or would that also be releasing classified information that could jeopardize the missionBossPerson

What happened in Abu Ghraib was wrong, and the soldiers were punished accordingly for it. Now, I'm still waiting on proof that Manning was justified in releasing the classified information. You haven't given me a situation where US troops weren't justified in what they did.

you are now entering official troll territory. You just got owned in an argument and have nothing left to do but make witty remarks, i suggest you take a break BossPerson

You haven't owned me, slick. Nothing you've said has ended this argument. Instead, you give me sad strawmen that have nothing to do with the actual topic we're talking about.

Again, the fact that you're using hadoken as any kind of authority on ownage is fvcking hilarious.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]whats CNN talks about can sometimes be more compromising than whats officially listed as 'classified'.............the Abu Grahib prison.....should that not have been leaked? Or would that also be releasing classified information that could jeopardize the missionairshocker

What happened in Abu Ghraib was wrong, and the soldiers were punished accordingly for it. Now, I'm still waiting on proof that Manning was justified in releasing the classified information. You haven't given me a situation where US troops weren't justified in what they did.

[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]I'd run to Mexico or Canada.worlock77

Pretty sure he's not in a positition to run, what with being in custody and all.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]i......im not even gonna reply, start coming up with some reasoned replies and then you can start talking sh*t.BossPerson

You just did reply...

:lol:

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]you are now entering official troll territory. You just got owned in an argument and have nothing left to do but make witty remarks, i suggest you take a break airshocker

You haven't owned me, slick. Nothing you've said has ended this argument. Instead, you give me sad strawmen that have nothing to do with the actual topic we're talking about.

Again, the fact that you're using hadoken as any kind of authority on ownage is fvcking hilarious.

killing innocent civilians including two reuters journalists with no provocation whatsoever?BossPerson

You're acting as if the killing of the journalists/civilians was intentional, which it wasn't. The targets were clear(in so far as they had weapons and RPGs), and unfortunately there was collateral damage. That kind of stuff happens when a fireteam is pinned down and calling for air support.

i dont need hakoden to tell me what ownage is, i know it when i commit it......BossPerson

The fact that you're avoiding the meat and potatoes of what I say speaks for itself.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]killing innocent civilians including two reuters journalists with no provocation whatsoever?airshocker

You're acting as if the killing of the journalists/civilians was intentional, which it wasn't. The targets were clear(in so far as they had weapons and RPGs), and unfortunately there was collateral damage. That kind of stuff happens when a fireteam is pinned down and calling for air support.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="airshocker"]

You just did reply...

:lol:

pie-junior

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]i dont need hakoden to tell me what ownage is, i know it when i commit it......airshocker

The fact that you're avoiding the meat and potatoes of what I say speaks for itself.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]i......im not even gonna reply, start coming up with some reasoned replies and then you can start talking sh*t.BossPerson

You just did reply...

:lol:

[QUOTE="pie-junior"][QUOTE="BossPerson"]you are now entering official troll territory. You just got owned in an argument and have nothing left to do but make witty remarks, i suggest you take a break hadoken

and what is so bad about exposing that to the public? Who is put in danger in that case?BossPerson

The public doesn't need that footage? The footage would have been made available in an investigation on the pilots.

youve been avoiding the meat and potatoes of what ive been saying for a page and a half nowBossPerson

I've only avoided the obvious strawman attempts you've made.

I say they should kill him.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]and what is so bad about exposing that to the public? Who is put in danger in that case?airshocker

The public doesn't need that footage? The footage would have been made available in an investigation on the pilots.

I say they should kill him.

T_REX305

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]whats CNN talks about can sometimes be more compromising than whats officially listed as 'classified'.............the Abu Grahib prison.....should that not have been leaked? Or would that also be releasing classified information that could jeopardize the missionBossPerson

What happened in Abu Ghraib was wrong, and the soldiers were punished accordingly for it. Now, I'm still waiting on proof that Manning was justified in releasing the classified information. You haven't given me a situation where US troops weren't justified in what they did.

correct me if im wrong but isnt it the military that conducts military investigations? and secondly........the public does need that footage and that is where you and I defer. You were in the military, werent you? Im iraqi so we're both in positions of bias

BossPerson

It would probably be a DoD investigation and then they'd recommend what action to take.

The public doesn't need the footage. We were at war, the public isn't entitled to anything from the Department of Defense during wartime.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

You're acting as if the killing of the journalists/civilians was intentional, which it wasn't. The targets were clear(in so far as they had weapons and RPGs), and unfortunately there was collateral damage. That kind of stuff happens when a fireteam is pinned down and calling for air support.

BossPerson

Journalists in a war zone know that they are likely to get killed, by one side or the other. This goes back to as long as there have been reporters of any sort covering wars. Ernie Pyle, probably the most famous reporter ever to report on WWII and loved by those doing the fighting, was killed in Ia Shima island during the Battle of Okinawa by the Japanese. He is buried with Marines who also died during said battle.

There are always civilians that get killed during a war, it is inevitable. The fact that there is fewer deaths from collateral damage nowadays is a testament to how much the military goes out of it's way to keep from harming them (the greater use of smart bombs for example). During WWII, whole cities were razed by both sides by firebombing leading to massive numbers of civilian deaths.

As I said earlier, if we had the communication technology we have now back in WWII, the outcome would have been different due to the touchy feely people like you.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]killing innocent civilians including two reuters journalists with no provocation whatsoever?BossPerson

You're acting as if the killing of the journalists/civilians was intentional, which it wasn't. The targets were clear(in so far as they had weapons and RPGs), and unfortunately there was collateral damage. That kind of stuff happens when a fireteam is pinned down and calling for air support.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]

correct me if im wrong but isnt it the military that conducts military investigations? and secondly........the public does need that footage and that is where you and I defer. You were in the military, werent you? Im iraqi so we're both in positions of bias

airshocker

It would probably be a DoD investigation and then they'd recommend what action to take.

The public doesn't need the footage. We were at war, the public isn't entitled to anything from the Department of Defense during wartime.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="airshocker"]

You're acting as if the killing of the journalists/civilians was intentional, which it wasn't. The targets were clear(in so far as they had weapons and RPGs), and unfortunately there was collateral damage. That kind of stuff happens when a fireteam is pinned down and calling for air support.

On3ShotOneKill

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="airshocker"]

You're acting as if the killing of the journalists/civilians was intentional, which it wasn't. The targets were clear(in so far as they had weapons and RPGs), and unfortunately there was collateral damage. That kind of stuff happens when a fireteam is pinned down and calling for air support.

WhiteKnight77

Journalists in a war zone know that they are likely to get killed, by one side or the other. This goes back to as long as there have been reporters of any sort covering wars. Ernie Pyle, probably the most famous reporter ever to report on WWII and loved by those doing the fighting, was killed in Ia Shima island during the Battle of Okinawa by the Japanese. He is buried with Marines who also died during said battle.

There are always civilians that get killed during a war, it is inevitable. The fact that there is fewer deaths from collateral damage nowadays is a testament to how much the military goes out of it's way to keep from harming them (the greater use of smart bombs for example). During WWII, whole cities were razed by both sides by firebombing leading to massive numbers of civilian deaths.

As I said earlier, if we had the communication technology we have now back in WWII, the outcome would have been different due to the touchy feely people like you.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]and what is so bad about exposing that to the public? Who is put in danger in that case?BossPerson

The public doesn't need that footage? The footage would have been made available in an investigation on the pilots.

again, we are both biased so lets call it a day.....i disagree with the statement you just made completely so there's no more proper debating thats going to happen between usBossPerson

You can disagree all you want. The public had no reason to have the footage. It's as simple as that.

And there was no proper debating when you resorted to strawmen to try and make points.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

The public doesn't need that footage? The footage would have been made available in an investigation on the pilots.

On3ShotOneKill

[QUOTE="On3ShotOneKill"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]and what is so bad about exposing that to the public? Who is put in danger in that case?BossPerson

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]and what is so bad about exposing that to the public? Who is put in danger in that case?Person0

Journalists in a war zone know that they are likely to get killed, by one side or the other. This goes back to as long as there have been reporters of any sort covering wars. Ernie Pyle, probably the most famous reporter ever to report on WWII and loved by those doing the fighting, was killed in Ia Shima island during the Battle of Okinawa by the Japanese. He is buried with Marines who also died during said battle.

There are always civilians that get killed during a war, it is inevitable. The fact that there is fewer deaths from collateral damage nowadays is a testament to how much the military goes out of it's way to keep from harming them (the greater use of smart bombs for example). During WWII, whole cities were razed by both sides by firebombing leading to massive numbers of civilian deaths.

As I said earlier, if we had the communication technology we have now back in WWII, the outcome would have been different due to the touchy feely people like you.

You're right. Millions of civilians were killed in WWII by both sides. Not so much in OIF.

[QUOTE="On3ShotOneKill"][QUOTE="BossPerson"]correct me if im wrong but isnt it the military that conducts military investigations? and secondly........the public does need that footage and that is where you and I defer. You were in the military, werent you? Im iraqi so we're both in positions of bias

BossPerson

As do I. I will take your lack of an actual argument and a sad attempt at feeling good about yourself as an admission of: "I can't refute this so I give up".

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="On3ShotOneKill"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]On3ShotOneKill

[QUOTE="On3ShotOneKill"][QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="On3ShotOneKill"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]BossPerson

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]and what is so bad about exposing that to the public? Who is put in danger in that case?Person0

Journalists in a war zone know that they are likely to get killed, by one side or the other. This goes back to as long as there have been reporters of any sort covering wars. Ernie Pyle, probably the most famous reporter ever to report on WWII and loved by those doing the fighting, was killed in Ia Shima island during the Battle of Okinawa by the Japanese. He is buried with Marines who also died during said battle.

There are always civilians that get killed during a war, it is inevitable. The fact that there is fewer deaths from collateral damage nowadays is a testament to how much the military goes out of it's way to keep from harming them (the greater use of smart bombs for example). During WWII, whole cities were razed by both sides by firebombing leading to massive numbers of civilian deaths.

As I said earlier, if we had the communication technology we have now back in WWII, the outcome would have been different due to the touchy feely people like you.

So is it your stance that war is not war if the time period is different?

I was illustrating to BossPerson that journalists get killed in war, after all it was he who pointed it out as well as civilians. Ernie Pyle is the most famous jouralist, and probably the most loved one at that, to be killed during war time. I also showed that civilians do get killed in war time, again, first broached by him. Part of war is that people get killed be it military or civilian or journalist.

Exposing what is a given isn't really exposing anything. There are instances of criminal activity, but it has been dealt with or is being dealt with. That is something BossPerson doesn't know, or need to know as well as the public. It only needs to be shown to those who have been agrieved. The US public hasn't be so agrieved.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Ah, of course. Never pass up a chance to be partisan huh?

airshocker

I'm not the one who had a chief of staff that basically said never waste any crisis. The Obama admin. likes to politicize things.

Well sh*t. A sounder argument I've never heard. Bradley Manning is not being charged with treason because....Obama, that's why.

Well sh*t. A sounder argument I've never heard. Bradley Manning is not being charged with treason because....Obama, that's why.

worlock77

As I've already pointed out, there's no reason they can't charge him with treason. His crimes fit the bill. You can have fun with your appeal to ridicule, though.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Well sh*t. A sounder argument I've never heard. Bradley Manning is not being charged with treason because....Obama, that's why.

airshocker

As I've already pointed out, there's no reason they can't charge him with treason. His crimes fit the bill. You can have fun with your appeal to ridicule, though.

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. Neither you nor I are privy to quite all the info they are. There's a reason they're not charging him with treason and I doubt it has anything to do with who the sitting president is. If you can prove otherwise please do so. If not you're just talking out of your ass.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]You're acting as if the killing of the journalists/civilians was intentional, which it wasn't. The targets were clear(in so far as they had weapons and RPGs), and unfortunately there was collateral damage. That kind of stuff happens when a fireteam is pinned down and calling for air support.

BossPerson

I thought treason was punishable by death? I don\'t care if what he was was right or not, it is against the law and he was acting against his country.SF_KiLLaMaN

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]the files he leaked covered up crimes that led to innocent civilians being killed. Its a smaller scale, but the significance is the same. So you admit, that sometimes personal morals should come before your military oath (like some Nazis in ww2), then why not in this case?BossPerson

I'm waiting on proof for your first statement. You have to convince me that it was justifiable to release those classified documents. You haven't done so.

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. Neither you nor I are privy to quite all the info they are. There's a reason they're not charging him with treason and I doubt it has anything to do with who the sitting president is. If you can prove otherwise please do so. If not you're just talking out of your ass.

worlock77

And it's not implausible to think politics may have something to do with the lesser charges being sought against Manning.