Blacks and h*mosexuals argue on Dr.Phils show

[QUOTE="bobg360"][QUOTE="mexicangordo"] Six months ago a Homosexual student was killed in California.... And many others are still being harassed, abused, neglected, killed durring 2008 not the 1960's.... but then again it still uncomparable to the Black community simply because the LGBT community are "different." :roll:sSubZerOo

No one argues that, slavery was a bad thign to happen and it happened far earlier then the middle ages.

In 1860, there were about 4 million black slaves in America (3.95 million can be considered 4). Coupled with the fact that for a number of years blacks were counted as 3/5 of a person in the United States, this is a group that has been oppressed far more than LGBT.

No I don't agree.. If you were openly gay in any the majority of cultures you would be condemend by EVERY ONE. Through out the world gays became very hated, the difference is they could hide it but still..

Furthermore, blacks have had their families broken apart during slavery because members have been sold to other plantations and owners. However, if you would like to look at more modern history, consider the Civil Rights movement. Blacks had their own water fountains, schools, and even neighborhoods.

Oh noes! Seeing as if you were openly gay you would most likely have gotten treated as if they were a black student in a white school.. Gays were outcasts, the reason why you didn't hear about them is because they were a far smaller minority.. And they kept hidden due to beign hated on all sides, blacks, whites, any other minotirty.

Civil Rights leaders had their houses vandalized and some were killed (i.e. MLK).

If you were gay and openly admited it this would happen to you.. Most likely it would be even worse seeing as people thought it was a sin of their religion.

I am not denying that throughout the course of history LGBT have been treated unfairly or improperly (as that would be sheer ignorance).

Unfairly improperly by meaning torture, murder, exclusion, harrassment.. Then yes, if anything gays were treated even worse during the 60s if they openly admited it, because they were excluded out of all social rings.

I am simply asking you to look at the larger scope of the two situations.

Apparently you arn't looking at the larger scope of thigns.. Racism has always been a factor no matter the group of people.. But Homosexuality was even worse because it aligned a hatred from all groups towards the homosexual, they saw it as unnatural and in the christian sense a sin against god..

In doing so, you will see that while these two situations both show the bigotry in society, the blacks have endured far more than LGBT.

To even make the comparison is dumb as hell.. They both suffered greatly in different measures.. To even make the comparison and claim one has suffered more over the other is ridiuclous.

If you can name me 100 accounts of LGBT being sold then I will cede this argument to you without any qualms.

If you can't udnerstand that homosexuality was much more then racism but a deep seeded hatred that lead to people being stoned to death.. Then i don't know what to say.. Unlike the blacks homosexualities are even a smaller faction, a faction that has hatred based on religion and supposedly being "unnatural" agianst them.. Blacks at least had each other, homosexuals were isolated and most saw it even worse then having a black person near them.. Now yet again am I saying they had it rougher? Of course not, they are different and equally have suffered and oppressed.. Its like argueing who was oppressed more, women or blacks.. Its a stupid argument and each have their attributes you can not really make a objective comparsion for.

[QUOTE="ronniepage588"]

big difference, you can chose to be gay or not, whether you really aren't or just lying that you aren't, you can still chose, but blacks couldn't chose their skin color. 

so atleast if you were gay you could lie about it.  

stevenk4k5

[QUOTE="Nkemjo"]

I'm in Ireland and it's not bad at all, you'd think it would be as were a christian nation :P

Theokhoth

Subzero is under the impression that correlation = causation. He really should look up ancient Rome; the Empire that popularised Christianity in the first place?

Haha true, those romans were promiscuous.

[QUOTE="Nkemjo"]

I'm in Ireland and it's not bad at all, you'd think it would be as were a christian nation :P

Theokhoth

Subzero is under the impression that correlation = causation. He really should look up ancient Rome; the Empire that popularised Christianity in the first place?

I am aware of that, I am a history major.. The problem with this is A) Most historians beleive that Christianity in that time saw gay relationships prohibited in the sense of boy-man relationships.. In the end in my opinion like slavery most justified the hatred towards the gays with their religious beliefs, like many do to this day.

And it isn't really accurate to say that Roman empire populaized it. The king Constantine converted, and he basically forced every one else to convert to it.. Infact people like Charlamagne (spelling?) specifically converted to Christianity to gain a united kingdom, and to convert people to a similar line of religion.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="bobg360"] I would hardly compare the scope of the black struggle to that of the LGBT struggle. Considering the fact that black slaves were a large part of the Western, "civilized" culture for a couple hundred years, I feel that you are not acknowledging the struggles that blacks have endured throughout the course of history.

No one argues that, slavery was a bad thign to happen and it happened far earlier then the middle ages.

In 1860, there were about 4 million black slaves in America (3.95 million can be considered 4). Coupled with the fact that for a number of years blacks were counted as 3/5 of a person in the United States, this is a group that has been oppressed far more than LGBT.

No I don't agree.. If you were openly gay in any the majority of cultures you would be condemend by EVERY ONE. Through out the world gays became very hated, the difference is they could hide it but still..

Furthermore, blacks have had their families broken apart during slavery because members have been sold to other plantations and owners. However, if you would like to look at more modern history, consider the Civil Rights movement. Blacks had their own water fountains, schools, and even neighborhoods.

Oh noes! Seeing as if you were openly gay you would most likely have gotten treated as if they were a black student in a white school.. Gays were outcasts, the reason why you didn't hear about them is because they were a far smaller minority.. And they kept hidden due to beign hated on all sides, blacks, whites, any other minotirty.

Civil Rights leaders had their houses vandalized and some were killed (i.e. MLK).

If you were gay and openly admited it this would happen to you.. Most likely it would be even worse seeing as people thought it was a sin of their religion.

I am not denying that throughout the course of history LGBT have been treated unfairly or improperly (as that would be sheer ignorance).

Unfairly improperly by meaning torture, murder, exclusion, harrassment.. Then yes, if anything gays were treated even worse during the 60s if they openly admited it, because they were excluded out of all social rings.

I am simply asking you to look at the larger scope of the two situations.

Apparently you arn't looking at the larger scope of thigns.. Racism has always been a factor no matter the group of people.. But Homosexuality was even worse because it aligned a hatred from all groups towards the homosexual, they saw it as unnatural and in the christian sense a sin against god..

In doing so, you will see that while these two situations both show the bigotry in society, the blacks have endured far more than LGBT.

To even make the comparison is dumb as hell.. They both suffered greatly in different measures.. To even make the comparison and claim one has suffered more over the other is ridiuclous.

If you can name me 100 accounts of LGBT being sold then I will cede this argument to you without any qualms.

If you can't udnerstand that homosexuality was much more then racism but a deep seeded hatred that lead to people being stoned to death.. Then i don't know what to say.. Unlike the blacks homosexualities are even a smaller faction, a faction that has hatred based on religion and supposedly being "unnatural" agianst them.. Blacks at least had each other, homosexuals were isolated and most saw it even worse then having a black person near them.. Now yet again am I saying they had it rougher? Of course not, they are different and equally have suffered and oppressed.. Its like argueing who was oppressed more, women or blacks.. Its a stupid argument and each have their attributes you can not really make a objective comparsion for.

bobg360

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Nkemjo"]

I'm in Ireland and it's not bad at all, you'd think it would be as were a christian nation :P

Nkemjo

Subzero is under the impression that correlation = causation. He really should look up ancient Rome; the Empire that popularised Christianity in the first place?

Haha true, those romans were promiscuous.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="bobg360"] I would hardly compare the scope of the black struggle to that of the LGBT struggle. Considering the fact that black slaves were a large part of the Western, "civilized" culture for a couple hundred years, I feel that you are not acknowledging the struggles that blacks have endured throughout the course of history.

No one argues that, slavery was a bad thign to happen and it happened far earlier then the middle ages.

In 1860, there were about 4 million black slaves in America (3.95 million can be considered 4). Coupled with the fact that for a number of years blacks were counted as 3/5 of a person in the United States, this is a group that has been oppressed far more than LGBT.

No I don't agree.. If you were openly gay in any the majority of cultures you would be condemend by EVERY ONE. Through out the world gays became very hated, the difference is they could hide it but still..

Furthermore, blacks have had their families broken apart during slavery because members have been sold to other plantations and owners. However, if you would like to look at more modern history, consider the Civil Rights movement. Blacks had their own water fountains, schools, and even neighborhoods.

Oh noes! Seeing as if you were openly gay you would most likely have gotten treated as if they were a black student in a white school.. Gays were outcasts, the reason why you didn't hear about them is because they were a far smaller minority.. And they kept hidden due to beign hated on all sides, blacks, whites, any other minotirty.

Civil Rights leaders had their houses vandalized and some were killed (i.e. MLK).

If you were gay and openly admited it this would happen to you.. Most likely it would be even worse seeing as people thought it was a sin of their religion.

I am not denying that throughout the course of history LGBT have been treated unfairly or improperly (as that would be sheer ignorance).

Unfairly improperly by meaning torture, murder, exclusion, harrassment.. Then yes, if anything gays were treated even worse during the 60s if they openly admited it, because they were excluded out of all social rings.

I am simply asking you to look at the larger scope of the two situations.

Apparently you arn't looking at the larger scope of thigns.. Racism has always been a factor no matter the group of people.. But Homosexuality was even worse because it aligned a hatred from all groups towards the homosexual, they saw it as unnatural and in the christian sense a sin against god..

In doing so, you will see that while these two situations both show the bigotry in society, the blacks have endured far more than LGBT.

To even make the comparison is dumb as hell.. They both suffered greatly in different measures.. To even make the comparison and claim one has suffered more over the other is ridiuclous.

If you can name me 100 accounts of LGBT being sold then I will cede this argument to you without any qualms.

If you can't udnerstand that homosexuality was much more then racism but a deep seeded hatred that lead to people being stoned to death.. Then i don't know what to say.. Unlike the blacks homosexualities are even a smaller faction, a faction that has hatred based on religion and supposedly being "unnatural" agianst them.. Blacks at least had each other, homosexuals were isolated and most saw it even worse then having a black person near them.. Now yet again am I saying they had it rougher? Of course not, they are different and equally have suffered and oppressed.. Its like argueing who was oppressed more, women or blacks.. Its a stupid argument and each have their attributes you can not really make a objective comparsion for.

bobg360

Their own, blacks had their own culture.. Gays didn't they were considered a freak and were omitted from every one.. There was no gay land, nor a gay country.. Extremely few cultures after 500 AD accepted gays what soe ver.. And people like the Spanish Inquistion made it their duty in hunting them down and exterminating them.. Like I said the only thing they could do is hide that they were gay So yet agian I am saying that they both suffered poorly and I think it ridiculous to claim one has suffered more then the other,

[QUOTE="stevenk4k5"][QUOTE="ronniepage588"]

big difference, you can chose to be gay or not, whether you really aren't or just lying that you aren't, you can still chose, but blacks couldn't chose their skin color. 

so atleast if you were gay you could lie about it.  

ronniepage588

[QUOTE="Nkemjo"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Subzero is under the impression that correlation = causation. He really should look up ancient Rome; the Empire that popularised Christianity in the first place?

clembo1990

Haha true, those romans were promiscuous.

True they even stole all their gods and just renamed them. Dionysus greek god of drink and revelry, that shows they knew how to have a good time.

[QUOTE="clembo1990"][QUOTE="Nkemjo"]

 

Haha true, those romans were promiscuous.

Nkemjo

True they even stole all their gods and just renamed them. Dionysus greek god of drink and revelry, that shows they knew how to have a good time.

I feel like slapping anyone who compares this to what blacks went through. The only thing gays are crying about is marriage. Black have been killed because they were black, hanged, crosses burned on lawns, couldnt sit in the front of the bus, couldnt get decent education, and etc.Tjeremiah1988

[QUOTE="Tjeremiah1988"]I feel like slapping anyone who compares this to what blacks went through. The only thing gays are crying about is marriage. Black have been killed because they were black, hanged, crosses burned on lawns, couldnt sit in the front of the bus, couldnt get decent education, and etc.Bourbons3

[QUOTE="fat_rob"]I hate when people compare the civil rights struggle of the 60's to the gay marriage debate...they are not comparable on any level... stevenk4k5

[QUOTE="mexicangordo"]

[QUOTE="Silverbond"]You can hide sexuality, but you can't hide your race.Silverbond

This thread is making me very sad...

What I think it ridiculous is that black people discriminate against homosexuals even when they were fighting for their rights not even that long ago.

[QUOTE="Nkemjo"][QUOTE="clembo1990"] Romans are wannabe Greeks. Now they were kinky!clembo1990

True they even stole all their gods and just renamed them. Dionysus greek god of drink and revelry, that shows they knew how to have a good time.

[QUOTE="Silverbond"][QUOTE="mexicangordo"] So someone has to hide who they are in order for them to not get beaten up, harassed....killed? Great, your right! Even now in 2008 as long as gay people hide themselves, they wont get harassed.... :|

This thread is making me very sad...

Foolio1

What I think it ridiculous is that black people discriminate against homosexuals even when they were fighting for their rights not even that long ago.

Hmm lets see the right to get married vs right to be considered a proper human, yup the exact same thing. Civil union is the way for gays to go, marriage is a pact under god(and most religions only allow it under a man and women) so why do they want it?

[QUOTE="mexicangordo"][QUOTE="bobg360"]I've never heard of a LGBT student having to be escorted by police to go to school. While both groups have their struggles, the scope of the black struggle for equality throughout the world has been far more difficult that the LGBT. To even try and compare the two is simply ludicrous.bobg360

There is a huge difference between one's ethnic and biological heritage versus the sexual preference of individuals. Gay men, who like to sodomize each other...and really, let's be honest here...that's how they identify themselves...gay people identify themselves through their sexual acts...cannot logically compare their situation to the racial discrimination that has plagued so many humans. I don't think homosexuals should be mistreated, but don't compare apples with oranges. If a grown man wants to commit sodomy in the privacy of his own home with another consenting adult male, that's their business. But don't compare peoples' adversion to sexual deviance (deviant to the perpetuation of the human race) to discrimination based upon race. It's a lot different.

[QUOTE="mexicangordo"][QUOTE="stevenk4k5"]Woo, I gotta see that one! But still, while I don't believe the struggle of blacks and the struggles of gays are directly comparable, there are some cases in which both struggles meet an equilibrium. The one thing that pops into my head is segregation and the Separate but Equal laws.Silverbond

Now if say, some backwards country decided to make Christianity illegal, would THAT be morally acceptable?

Hey, the Christians don't HAVE to get put to death for their religious beliefs. They can just HIDE their religious beliefs.

And hey, it's not that Christians are being unfairly discriminated against. It's not like the Christians are the ONLY ones who aren't allowed to be Christians. NO ONE is allowed to be a Christian. The Muslims aren't allowed to be Christians, the atheists aren't allowed to be Christians, the Buddhists aren't allowed to Christians either. So what are the Christians complaining about? They're being treated just like everyone else. Now tell me where they are so that I can put them in prison.

Same basic concept. Yeah, gays CAN hide their sexuality and pretend to be straight. Yeah, they can get married to someone of the opposite sex and have children just to avoid suspicion that they're gay But why should they have to? 

[QUOTE="fat_rob"]I hate when people compare the civil rights struggle of the 60's to the gay marriage debate...they are not comparable on any level... stevenk4k5

Gays have been prosecuted for HUNDREDS of years.  And unlike black people, gays were attacked all around the world, not in just the West.  During the witch trials, they would dowse gays with oil, light them on fire, and use them to ignite the stake the "witches" were on.  It is punishable by death in parts of the middle east to be gay Gays have been struggling for a lot longer than blacks have.

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]I hate this imaginary culture "war" between the blacks and the gays that keeps on circling the news cycles. If anything it is the mormoms and the evangelicals that are at "war" with the gays. mexicangordo

70% of blacks who voted on Prop8 in California were for it.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/11/70-of-african-a.html

It's basically like, "I got my rights, so **** you guys! Hooray! Now there's a black man in the white house! I'm throwing a party at my place and everyone is invited! Except for the gays."

That's what the 2008 election year should be most remembered for. Were rights for blacks increased by Obama's victory? No. For pretty much everyone, everything is just the same as it was before the election. Unless we're talking about the gays, who were basically given a big "**** you" by the entire country.

And it's not just in California either. Anti-gay legislation was passed in several states from coast to coast. 2008 didn't show that we're all equal. 2008 is the year that showed that we'd rather quit bashing the blacks so much, and focus our efforts on bashing the gays. 

[QUOTE="stevenk4k5"][QUOTE="fat_rob"]I hate when people compare the civil rights struggle of the 60's to the gay marriage debate...they are not comparable on any level... helium_flash

Gays have been prosecuted for HUNDREDS of years.  And unlike black people, gays were attacked all around the world, not in just the West.  During the witch trials, they would dowse gays with oil, light them on fire, and use them to ignite the stake the "witches" were on.  It is punishable by death in parts of the middle east to be gay Gays have been struggling for a lot longer than blacks have.

[QUOTE="stevenk4k5"][QUOTE="fat_rob"]I hate when people compare the civil rights struggle of the 60's to the gay marriage debate...they are not comparable on any level... helium_flash

Gays have been prosecuted for HUNDREDS of years. And unlike black people, gays were attacked all around the world, not in just the West. During the witch trials, they would dowse gays with oil, light them on fire, and use them to ignite the stake the "witches" were on. It is punishable by death in parts of the middle east to be gay Gays have been struggling for a lot longer than blacks have.

That's actually how the "f" word came to be applied to gays. The "f" word was originally used to refer to use to pieces of wood which were used as kindling to start fires. That word was applied to homosexuals because they'd take homosexual people and light them on fire to start the fires which were used to burn witches.

I know that some gay people use that word casually in the same way that some blacks casually use that word. I once saw a conversation where a gay man used that word to refer to himself, and then a straight woman had to educate him on exactly what that word meant, and the horror emanating from the gay man's face at what he'd been saying all this time was so thick that I could almost reach out and grab it.

It's an ugly word. Its origins are brutal and horrific, and it absolutely shows what gays have had to go through over the years. The implications of what you say whenever you call someone that word are just about the most hateful things you could possibly say to someone. 

look i never said gays should have to hide anything, but to compare them to what blacks went through is ridiculous. they couldn't simply hide the color of their skin to evade discrimination, gay people can if they chose to. thats the only point i was trying to make. and the truth is, many gays, in fact, do chose to be gay but i agree that most do not, and i also agree that many may just be born that way, but i believe may also become that way unknowingly, like my aunt who had a very abusive father and shes openly expresses all the time thats probably the reason she turned out to be a lesbian. also, i never said i liked lesbians either, never did i say, male gays are gross but female ones are hot! lol i think its all quite gross, but penis in butts is even grosser to me. look i have no problem with gays, and i think its wonderful that people are able to find love with someone else no matter what the gender, but you can't blame me for disliking the way they have sex, i think its gross, i like the good old natural way as nature intended, thats allronniepage588

I don't know any gay person who equates their struggle to the struggles of black people in America's storied history. Never have I heard one say they've had to endure the same hardships. They aren't alike in that regard.

However, one cannot say similarities cannot be drawn. One cannot say they aren't comparable in the roots of the struggles.

Black people and gay people are victims of hate crimes. When black people were afforded rights and protection, violence towards black people increased for a while before people settled down. When gay people were thrust into the spotlight and afforded rights(albeit they required less than black people did, obviously) and protection, violence against them went up. In fact, hate crimes against gay people have increased over the past few years. There have been a number of brutal acts of violence against gay people in just the past decade.

People might say 'I think homosexuality is wrong', and I'm absolutely ok with that, and I'm certain my gay friends would agree as well. They don't want to force people into liking homosexuality. They just want the same treatment that everyone else in the country gets. They want to know that there are plans in place to promote tolerance in our schools so violence against young homosexuals drops, and suicide rates for young homosexuals drop. 

Just recently in Toronto, a lesbian couple was attacked by a man while waiting for their child after school. Luckily, they weren't too badly harmed, but it goes to show the kind of attitude some people have. Can you imagine, as a child leaving the school, seeing your parents attacked by some stranger? Can you imagine, as a parent, having to explain that act of violence, and the terrible question of "why"?

The allowance of gay marriage is greater than the sum of its parts. It is the progress of tolerance in a society. It ensures the safety of thousands of children in the future, and makes strides to allow them to grow up happy. You can't legislate away homosexuality. It is a natural, if fairly uncommon occurrance. 

You don't have to like it, or support it. Just tolerate it, for the sake of the thousands of gay youth driven to suicide each year, for the hundreds attacked and beaten each year, and for all those killed for being gay.

Because not allowing it prevents steps from being taken to help out.

And you know, if people are so stuck up on marriage, let the churches decide, and tear it out of all the consitutions. Let religion decide who can get married, and let the government give people those rights and protections. 

But those against their kids learning what homosexuality is, and against their kids being tolerant of homosexuals....they have no excuse. They're despicable people hoping to raise despicable children who hate gay people, much like back in the 60's there were folk who hated black people and wanted their children to hate black people.

And those children could very well grow up and cause misery, pain, or death on those they're taught to be prejudiced of.

So for those against gay marriage, if you're against it for the sanctity of marriage, then you get a semi-free pass, but let me tell you that the government hands out marriages, and the government is not god(who links two people spiritually until death do them part), so if you're getting those marriage benefits, you've committed blasphemy. You're better off getting marriage "back to it's sacred roots" and out of the government for good.

As a member of the LGBT community, I'd like to, in ten years, not be so afraid of merely going to a bar/pub with my friends, or be alone (anywhere, at any time of day) waiting for someone, or dating someone. I'd like people to not think of me as sub-human like seemingly so many do. I'd like for someone not to revile in disgust and get all aggressive when I mention what I am. I'd like, though, more than anything, for more people to know about homosexuality, bisexuality, transsexuality, etc. in the future, so other people don't have to face the same obstacles I and too many others have.

I feel like slapping anyone who compares this to what blacks went through. The only thing gays are crying about is marriage. Black have been killed because they were black, hanged, crosses burned on lawns, couldnt sit in the front of the bus, couldnt get decent education, and etc.Tjeremiah1988

*insert facepalm picture*

did you realy just say that homosexuals have never been killed or otherwise discriminated just beacose of what they are?

look i never said gays should have to hide anything, but to compare them to what blacks went through is ridiculous. they couldn't simply hide the color of their skin to evade discrimination, gay people can if they chose to. thats the only point i was trying to make. and the truth is, many gays, in fact, do chose to be gay but i agree that most do not, and i also agree that many may just be born that way, but i believe may also become that way unknowingly, like my aunt who had a very abusive father and shes openly expresses all the time thats probably the reason she turned out to be a lesbian. also, i never said i liked lesbians either, never did i say, male gays are gross but female ones are hot! lol i think its all quite gross, but penis in butts is even grosser to me. look i have no problem with gays, and i think its wonderful that people are able to find love with someone else no matter what the gender, but you can't blame me for disliking the way they have sex, i think its gross, i like the good old natural way as nature intended, thats all. ronniepage588

difference between what blacks went through is bigger, if your gay you can hide it. you cant do the same with skin colorfreshgman

I feel like slapping anyone who compares this to what blacks went through. The only thing gays are crying about is marriage. Black have been killed because they were black, hanged, crosses burned on lawns, couldnt sit in the front of the bus, couldnt get decent education, and etc.Tjeremiah1988

I don't know any gay person who equates their struggle to the struggles of black people in America's storied history. Never have I heard one say they've had to endure the same hardships. They aren't alike in that regard.

However, one cannot say similarities cannot be drawn. One cannot say they aren't comparable in the roots of the struggles.

Black people and gay people are victims of hate crimes. When black people were afforded rights and protection, violence towards black people increased for a while before people settled down. When gay people were thrust into the spotlight and afforded rights(albeit they required less than black people did, obviously) and protection, violence against them went up. In fact, hate crimes against gay people have increased over the past few years. There have been a number of brutal acts of violence against gay people in just the past decade.

People might say 'I think homosexuality is wrong', and I'm absolutely ok with that, and I'm certain my gay friends would agree as well. They don't want to force people into liking homosexuality. They just want the same treatment that everyone else in the country gets. They want to know that there are plans in place to promote tolerance in our schools so violence against young homosexuals drops, and suicide rates for young homosexuals drop. 

Just recently in Toronto, a lesbian couple was attacked by a man while waiting for their child after school. Luckily, they weren't too badly harmed, but it goes to show the kind of attitude some people have. Can you imagine, as a child leaving the school, seeing your parents attacked by some stranger? Can you imagine, as a parent, having to explain that act of violence, and the terrible question of "why"?

The allowance of gay marriage is greater than the sum of its parts. It is the progress of tolerance in a society. It ensures the safety of thousands of children in the future, and makes strides to allow them to grow up happy. You can't legislate away homosexuality. It is a natural, if fairly uncommon occurrance. 

You don't have to like it, or support it. Just tolerate it, for the sake of the thousands of gay youth driven to suicide each year, for the hundreds attacked and beaten each year, and for all those killed for being gay.

Because not allowing it prevents steps from being taken to help out.

And you know, if people are so stuck up on marriage, let the churches decide, and tear it out of all the consitutions. Let religion decide who can get married, and let the government give people those rights and protections. 

But those against their kids learning what homosexuality is, and against their kids being tolerant of homosexuals....they have no excuse. They're despicable people hoping to raise despicable children who hate gay people, much like back in the 60's there were folk who hated black people and wanted their children to hate black people.

And those children could very well grow up and cause misery, pain, or death on those they're taught to be prejudiced of.

So for those against gay marriage, if you're against it for the sanctity of marriage, then you get a semi-free pass, but let me tell you that the government hands out marriages, and the government is not god(who links two people spiritually until death do them part), so if you're getting those marriage benefits, you've committed blasphemy. You're better off getting marriage "back to it's sacred roots" and out of the government for good.

As a member of the LGBT community, I'd like to, in ten years, not be so afraid of merely going to a bar/pub with my friends, or be alone (anywhere, at any time of day) waiting for someone, or dating someone. I'd like people to not think of me as sub-human like seemingly so many do. I'd like for someone not to revile in disgust and get all aggressive when I mention what I am. I'd like, though, more than anything, for more people to know about homosexuality, bisexuality, transsexuality, etc. in the future, so other people don't have to face the same obstacles I and too many others have.

Lockedge

You've just put my thoughts on the matter (except that I'm heterosexual) into writing better than I ever could have done. I agree entirely with this post.

I feel like slapping anyone who compares this to what blacks went through. The only thing gays are crying about is marriage. Black have been killed because they were black, hanged, crosses burned on lawns, couldnt sit in the front of the bus, couldnt get decent education, and etc.Tjeremiah1988

Untill very recently (2003 in some states) homosexuals were put in jail for being homosexuals in America. Untill about 100 years ago homosexuals were hung by the government for the act of anal sex. This was in Europe. You can still be killed for being a homosexual in quite a few African and Middle Eastern countries. There is nowhere in the world that I know of that kills you for being black. You can't compare the homosexual struggle to the black struggle, the homosexual struggle has been going on for longer and the brutality is beyond compare.

Dude, that was an intense debate.

I was seriously on the edge of my seat.

If the majority of blacks are so conservative why didn't they vote for Mccain? Seriously they vote for a president that doesn't hold any of their ideals and call it milestone in the fight for racial equality, how is voting for a president based on the colour of his skin racial equality?

Honestly this whole thing pisses me off, you think the worlds finally on a better path and something like this happens, who gives a **** who was more persecuted? The simple fact is a group of people have been denied equal rights by the dogmatic will of others and are still considered "less then" and hated by a considerable group of people.

[QUOTE="Tjeremiah1988"]I feel like slapping anyone who compares this to what blacks went through. The only thing gays are crying about is marriage. Black have been killed because they were black, hanged, crosses burned on lawns, couldnt sit in the front of the bus, couldnt get decent education, and etc.BatmanBegins24

Untill very recently (2003 in some states) homosexuals were put in jail for being homosexuals in America. Untill about 100 years ago homosexuals were hung by the government for the act of anal sex. This was in Europe. You can still be killed for being a homosexual in quite a few African and Middle Eastern countries. There is nowhere in the world that I know of that kills you for being black. You can't compare the homosexual struggle to the black struggle, the homosexual struggle has been going on for longer and the brutality is beyond compare.

If the majority of blacks are so conservative why didn't they vote for Mccain? Seriously they vote for a president that doesn't hold any of their ideals and call it milestone in the fight for racial equality, how is voting for a president based on the colour of his skin racial equality?

Honestly this whole thing pisses me off, you think the worlds finally on a better path and something like this happens, who gives a **** who was more persecuted? The simple fact is a group of people have been denied equal rights by the dogmatic will of others and are still considered "less then" and hated by a considerable group of people.

bean-with-bacon

I can't believe it, but I actually sat down and watched a freaking Dr. Phil show.

In short, it was pretty ridiculous. Each "side" had three people representing it, and it was evident by the end who were worthy of being on the show. I can't recall the pro-gay marriage guy who sat in the middle of the attorney and San Francisco's mayor, but he said some pretty rash things. Also quite rash or generally evasive were the "Yes on 8" founder and the woman who heads some marriage/family group. There was a pastor against gay-marriage who I could respect the opinion of, because I don't recall him stretching the truth like his friends were, even if his stance was strictly religious in dealing with a topic that doesn't involve religion.
San Francisco's mayor came across pretty well and raised good point after good point, and solid rebuttal after solid rebuttal. The attorney woman(I think she was an attorney), raised great legal counterpoints to the anti-gay marriage people's visions of the future.

Aside from the breaks being called after every 5 minutes of the show, it wasn't all that bad, but Dr. Phil asked a couple of pretty dumb questions, as usual.

I honestly couldn't believe that they brought in this couple in their audience and asked them why a gay couple in their audience shouldn't be allowed to marry, and they basically said "Well, marriage has been between a man and a woman, like god wants, and that's good for our kids"...and then the gay couple talked about how they were married at *(I can't remember the name for a jewish temple)* by a rabbi, and that their family is very normal, and their children are regular children, and that all they want is to be able to have the same opportunity and protections other couples get.

I swear, once DOMA is repealed, churches all over the states will go ballistic.