Bulking and Cutting? (for the lifters here)

Long story short, I spent a year and a couple months bulking up and gained 35 pounds. By doing so I gained a bit of fat around my lower abdomen and waist. It isn't much, but it does block those last two of the six pack from showing up. When cutting, do you cut down on meals as well or just do a lot more cardio? Any help would be appreciated.

the meal schedule I've been following:

• 8 AM: Protein Shake
• 10 AM: Scrambled Eggs and Sausage
• 12 PM: Two pieces of chicken breast
• 1 30 PM - 3 00 PM: Gym
• 4 PM: Protein Shake + Leftover dinner (usually chicken, rice, pasta, etc.)
• 6 PM: Peanut Butter and Honey Sandwich
• 8 PM: Dinner(usually chicken, rice, pasta, etc.)
• 11 PM: Chicken and crackers

Unless you're a pro bodybuilder or something, you don't need to go on some specialized cutting regimen to lose fat. Adjust your caloric intake/expenditure such that you can gain/maintain muscle without getting fat.

I started lifting seriously around 2003 and got my information mostly from the internet.

At the time, alternately bulking and cutting was advocated on the net absolutely, and any other approach was ridiculed. The web seems to be more open to other ideas now, but bodybuilding.com, wannabebigforums.com and other sites will still often recommend bulking and cutting cycles.

After doing it for several years and now trying a completely different approach, I would advise you to avoid 'bulking and cutting' unless you are a chemically-assisted competing bodybuilder.

I would advise you to focus on getting lean (and healthy!) now, and then just stay lean and work on slowly building quality muscle in the future without getting fat again. Don't bulk again.

As for what to actually do to get lean: Run 20-35k a week, keep lifting 2-3 times a week, don't eat garbage, and only eat when you actually feel hungry. Don't fast if you feel hungry, actually eat, but stop once you feel full.

I've had better progress in the past year doing this (lost 35 lbs since January and am the strongest I've ever been) than I did when I was counting and restricting calories and macros like most bodybuilding forums would advise you to do. I always lost a bunch of strength and muscle when doing that.

Lots of great advice, thanks guys.

Would I be good if I continue to add cardio (which is something I haven't done till now because before I started working out I was very skinnny) and maybe remove two meals from my diet?

My main concern is not losing any of the mass that I have spent so many hours trying putting on.

Bulking: extra calories/carbs, more heavy lifts and less emphasis on cardio. Cutting: fewer calories/carbs, repetition over volume for lifts, 45 minute runs, 4-5 times a week. I've never had an issue putting on or taking off weight with these methods, usually takes me 4-6 weeks to reach a desired weight. I rarely aim to cut or bulk though, I try to keep my weight consistent.

I would advise you to focus on getting lean (and healthy!) now, and then just stay lean and work on slowly building quality muscle in the future without getting fat again. Don't bulk again.XenonRadon

Best advice in this thread.

Eat 10-20% maintenance calorie deficit on a cut. 1g/lb lbm protein. 0.45g/lb bw fat. No need to eat every 2 hours what are you crazy?

Eat 10-20% maintenance calorie deficit on a cut. 1g/lb lbm protein. 0.45g/lb bw fat. No need to eat every 2 hours what are you crazy?

The_Zoid

Well it worked for the most part :P

Again thanks for all the helpful tips

I know peanut butter has a lot of protein but the fats and such in it make it kind of not worth it. RAGEofSTUNTS

Lots of great advice, thanks guys.

Would I be good if I continue to add cardio (which is something I haven't done till now because before I started working out I was very skinnny) and maybe remove two meals from my diet?

My main concern is not losing any of the mass that I have spent so many hours trying putting on.

megadeth1117

[QUOTE="megadeth1117"]

Lots of great advice, thanks guys.

Would I be good if I continue to add cardio (which is something I haven't done till now because before I started working out I was very skinnny) and maybe remove two meals from my diet?

My main concern is not losing any of the mass that I have spent so many hours trying putting on.

dodgerblue13

Took a quick look at it, Will definitely go though it thoroughly later, thanks for the site.

Lots of great advice, thanks guys.

Would I be good if I continue to add cardio (which is something I haven't done till now because before I started working out I was very skinnny) and maybe remove two meals from my diet?

My main concern is not losing any of the mass that I have spent so many hours trying putting on.

megadeth1117

I think you should add cardio. First, it's simply good for your long-term health. Second, you will actually have some athletic ability to back up your appearance. Being able to exert yourself for an extended period of time is one of the best benefits you can gain from working out. You'll have a sports car appearance and the engine to back it up. And last, personally I've been able to hold onto muscle more effectively by running a lot and lifting weights as opposed to reducing calories strictly through diet and lifting weights (with minimal cardio). Bodybuilding message boards will tell you to just use diet, but having done both (without anabolic steroids), in my experience exercise trumps counting calories.

Think about how ripped athletes got that way. By working their butts off in the gym and on the track, not by weighing their celery.

For running, you should work your way up to 10:1 intervals (walk 1 min for every 10 minutes of running). Invest in a good pair of running shoes from a running store (the sales person can watch you run and tell you what kind of support you need).

i prefer to bulk and cut at the same time. pygmahia5

I know peanut butter has a lot of protein but the fats and such in it make it kind of not worth it. RAGEofSTUNTS

[QUOTE="pygmahia5"]i prefer to bulk and cut at the same time. MgamerBD

I know peanut butter has a lot of protein but the fats and such in it make it kind of not worth it. RAGEofSTUNTS

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"][QUOTE="pygmahia5"] Same [QUOTE="RAGEofSTUNTS"]I know peanut butter has a lot of protein but the fats and such in it make it kind of not worth it. Bloodseeker23

[QUOTE="Bloodseeker23"][QUOTE="MgamerBD"] Those are actually good fats found in peanut butter. Monosaturated and poly saturated fats are good fats that burn bad fats.MgamerBD

As a previous poster mentioned the whole bulking and cutting thing is really something you would do if you were taking anabolic steroids. The idea behind it is that you use certain steroids to bulk up and certain steroids to lean out. You'll hear the terms bulking/cutting all over sites like bodybuilding.com but they leave out the part about steroids. Really, what you want to do is get lean.

The best way for you to get leaner at this point is to reduce the size of you meals. Keep eating often but just reduce the overall size of each meal and therefore calories. Eating often keeps your matabolism in high gear. Avoid foods high in any kind of fat. Don't eat to many carbs. Avoid sugar and drinks containing sugar like any juices. It really comes down to calories taken in vs. calories burned. Reduce that ratio and you'll lean out. Stress and sleep affect your body greatly when it comes to fat as well so try to get enough sleep and keep stress to a minimum. Since I started working graveyard my abs went to crap :? Less sleep and higher stress...

Edit: If you want to get lean stay away from that peanut butter. It doesn't make a difference if it's organic or natural. It's full of fats. Good fats but still fats.

whats this i hear about scooby saying that cardio doesnt stop you from gaining muscle then??? pygmahia5

Since we are all helping each other can someone recommend me a diet for muscle gain? I am 6'0, 170 lbs which I consider about perfect as my BMI is 23, I'd like to maintain that weight but I want to start building muscle. Just a general 4-5 meal a day programme would be great help, I actually want to start tomorrow.

EDIT: Right now I am living off packets of noodles and snacks =]

[QUOTE="junglist101"](1) The best way for you to get leaner at this point is to reduce the size of you meals.(2) Keep eating often but just reduce the overall size of each meal and therefore calories. Eating often keeps your matabolism in high gear. (3) Avoid foods high in any kind of fat. (4) Don't eat to many carbs.... ...Edit: If you want to get lean stay away from that peanut butter. It doesn't make a difference if it's organic or natural. It's full of fats. Good fats but still fats.dodgerblue13

[QUOTE="dodgerblue13"][QUOTE="junglist101"](1) The best way for you to get leaner at this point is to reduce the size of you meals.(2) Keep eating often but just reduce the overall size of each meal and therefore calories. Eating often keeps your matabolism in high gear. (3) Avoid foods high in any kind of fat. (4) Don't eat to many carbs.... ...Edit: If you want to get lean stay away from that peanut butter. It doesn't make a difference if it's organic or natural. It's full of fats. Good fats but still fats.junglist101

[QUOTE="junglist101"]

[QUOTE="dodgerblue13"] (1) That's not necessarily true. (2) You should really read up. That theory is losing support. Eating often doesn't really stoke a metabolism fire. Look into intermittent fasting. (3) You can lose fat and still eat fat so long as you do it correctly. (4) You need carbs on workout days but not on rest days. Avoiding them or limiting them severely isn't the best idea. (5) It's more that peanut butter has a lot of calories for the amount of protein it actually provides. Again, the fats thing...neither fats nor carbs are the enemy. People just need to learn how to eat them correctly. That's the hard part.achilles614

i dont know why people want to be huge.... says the guy who does primarily aerobic workouts to prevent getting huger....

[QUOTE="achilles614"][QUOTE="junglist101"]It's not just his opinion, recent factual studies show that while eating often helps hunger it isn't any better than eating every 5-6 hours. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8399092?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494 http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/optimal-protein-intake-and-meal-frequency-to-support-maximal-protein-synthesis-and-muscle-mass http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17413096 So no not just an opinion and you should read up. Especially on what fats do for your body...I mean you claim to be "ripped" yet you don't really seem to know how carbs or fats work in a diet...I guess I better stop drinking my whole milk eating my whole eggs and red meat then. Next in line you should be telling OP that a high protein diet is bad for his kidneys or that he should squat on a bosu ball.junglist101

i dont know why people want to be huge.... says the guy who does primarily aerobic workouts to prevent getting huger....

surrealnumber5

Thanks for the newer posts for some more good info. If it helps I'm 5' 7", 165 lbs.

Would a pic of where I'm at now help in deciding where I should go from here, diet-wise?

Thanks for the newer posts for some more good info. If it helps I'm 5' 7", 165 lbs.

Would a pic of where I'm at now help in deciding where I should go from here, diet-wise?

megadeth1117

[QUOTE="megadeth1117"]

Thanks for the newer posts for some more good info. If it helps I'm 5' 7", 165 lbs.

Would a pic of where I'm at now help in deciding where I should go from here, diet-wise?

The_Zoid

none really

[QUOTE="The_Zoid"][QUOTE="megadeth1117"]

Thanks for the newer posts for some more good info. If it helps I'm 5' 7", 165 lbs.

Would a pic of where I'm at now help in deciding where I should go from here, diet-wise?

megadeth1117

none really

[QUOTE="megadeth1117"]

[QUOTE="The_Zoid"]Not really. Are you skinny-fat? Or just skinny?The_Zoid

none really

Well not lose weight, I think drop body fat % would be the correct term

Long story short, I spent a year and a couple months bulking up and gained 35 pounds. By doing so I gained a bit of fat around my lower abdomen and waist. It isn't much, but it does block those last two of the six pack from showing up. When cutting, do you cut down on meals as well or just do a lot more cardio? Any help would be appreciated.

the meal schedule I've been following:

• 8 AM: Protein Shake
• 10 AM: Scrambled Eggs and Sausage
• 12 PM: Two pieces of chicken breast
• 1 30 PM - 3 00 PM: Gym
• 4 PM: Protein Shake + Leftover dinner (usually chicken, rice, pasta, etc.)
• 6 PM: Peanut Butter and Honey Sandwich
• 8 PM: Dinner(usually chicken, rice, pasta, etc.)
• 11 PM: Chicken and crackers

megadeth1117

Let me just add one more reason why not to bulk: When you gain fat on a bulk, your fat cells increase in size, but also multiply (create new fat cells). When you lose fat during a cut, they only decrease in size, but not in number.

So after a bulk/cut cycle you now have more fat cells than you had before and if those cells multiplied in your belly (as they tend to do with guys), you are now going to get a visibly fat belly more easily than you would have before you have bulked. For the rest of your life (unless you get liposuction).

It is all about creating a reasonable calorie deficit.

Taking into account you have done this with your food, zero cardio will ever be needed.

Here's my perfect meal plan (That I am struggling to follow, mind you)

Meal 1 @ 7: 2dl oatmeal with 5dl of milk (13g protein / 70g carbs per 100g, and 5 dl of milk is 17g protein and 20g carbs or so) + an apple

Meal 2 @ 10: 150g bag of mixed nuts (18g protein, 19g carbs per 100)

Meal 3 @ 12: 200g of chicken with a 125g double portion of rice (rice has 80g/100g carbs, a few grams of protein. chicken has 19/100g protein) + some tomatoes

Protein shake w/milk @ 15

Meal 4 @ 18: 180g salmon with 4 potatoes (salmon has 24g protein per 100g, potatoes have a 30-40g carbs per 100g) + some broccholi

meal 5 @ 21: can of tuna with salad; (17g protein per 100g)

Protein shake @ 23, just before bedtime.

I'm only 81kg at the moment so that meal plan is an overkill for me, but I'm incapable of eating 5 meals per day and usually cut out meal 5 and meal 2, which is bad, I should eat less oat meal in the morning and less salmon/potatoes for dinner so that I can squeeze in a bag of nuts and tuna/salad meals.

I guess that meal plan is ideal for some one who weighs 100kg, and wishes to bulk up.

Or you can do like the world's strongest man and eat three pounds of bacon, 10 eggs and 3 snickers for break. Then 5-6 more meals of that size.

I'm not joking.. google Pudzians diet :P

And some scrawny little gym teacher who can't bench 100kg probably told you that bacon and chocolates were bad for you... PFFFFT! show him that guy if he says that :oops:

Honestly, I don't know why you put so much effort into the food you eat. I eat anything from pizza to chocolate and still manage to put muscle on.

[QUOTE="pygmahia5"]whats this i hear about scooby saying that cardio doesnt stop you from gaining muscle then??? dodgerblue13

Honestly, I don't know why you put so much effort into the food you eat. I eat anything from pizza to chocolate and still manage to put muscle on.

CBR600-RR

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

Honestly, I don't know why you put so much effort into the food you eat. I eat anything from pizza to chocolate and still manage to put muscle on.

pygmahia5

The only problem is that if I don't do kind of little exercise then I'll get a bit of a belly. Just drink plenty of water too!

[QUOTE="megadeth1117"]

Long story short, I spent a year and a couple months bulking up and gained 35 pounds. By doing so I gained a bit of fat around my lower abdomen and waist. It isn't much, but it does block those last two of the six pack from showing up. When cutting, do you cut down on meals as well or just do a lot more cardio? Any help would be appreciated.

the meal schedule I've been following:

• 8 AM: Protein Shake
• 10 AM: Scrambled Eggs and Sausage
• 12 PM: Two pieces of chicken breast
• 1 30 PM - 3 00 PM: Gym
• 4 PM: Protein Shake + Leftover dinner (usually chicken, rice, pasta, etc.)
• 6 PM: Peanut Butter and Honey Sandwich
• 8 PM: Dinner(usually chicken, rice, pasta, etc.)
• 11 PM: Chicken and crackers

CardiacKid07