Can you be Christian yet not take the bible literally?

[QUOTE="Mochyc"]

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

There are surveys that suggest differently. Here's one.

http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/18-congregations/92-most-americans-take-well-known-bible-stories-at-face-value?q=catholics

blackregiment

Not only that, but Gabu was talking about Christians; your disputable source only refers to americans.

You might want to re-read the information presented. It specifically addressed the beliefs of Americans in general as well as certain Christian cIassifications. You must have overlooked that.:)

In addition, Christians and Americans are not mutually exclusive groups. Over 75% to 80% of Americans identify themselves as Christians, therefore, Christians are a sub-set of Americans, a very, very large sub-set at that. A study by Barna in 2004 showed that atheists and agnostics represent about 12% of the American population.

i dont think the bible is meant to be taken literally

This is a question i, a non-christian, has always wondered about certain christians.

It seems people like to take only parts of the bible literally and take other parts that may not make sense symbolically.

However, when has this ever been logical? As far as I know every single thing that god had wanted to be taken symbolically in the bible, he clearly stated as such (for example the parables).

the bible says noah made an arc to survive the flood. Even though the story may sound wrong, where in the bible does it state that it didnt happen exactly how the bible said it did(i mean, even specific dimensions for the arc's size were given and everything).

the bible says god created the earth in 7 days, no matter how unbelievable it may sound, if your a christian, how is it right in any way to interpret it how you see it?

I could go on and on with the other stories, but you get what I'm trying to say.

[QUOTE="scorch-62"]The short answer is "yes."LJS9502_basic

Many Christians, including many ordained ministers, don't take the Bible literally. Most understand that many of the stories contained within are allegorical. The rise of evangelism, especially in the US, has revitalised the idea that every single word in the Bible is to be taken literally which creates crisises of faith as we now know that it can't possibly be true that everything in there is literal (ie Gensis especially).

(EDIT I feel I should put some examples in - the great flood, noah's ark, the creation myth of adam & eve and the garden of eden, etc )

People tend to take it out of context...not everything is meant literally..

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

The majority of Christians do just that.

scorch-62

There are surveys that suggest differently. Here's one.

http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/18-congregations/92-most-americans-take-well-known-bible-stories-at-face-value?q=catholics

Catholics are Christians. They believe in Jesus Christ as their savior and that he was God sent to Earth to die and be resurrected for the forgiveness of their sins, thus making them Christians.

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

There are surveys that suggest differently. Here's one.

http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/18-congregations/92-most-americans-take-well-known-bible-stories-at-face-value?q=catholics

3KindgomsRandy

Catholics are Christians. They believe in Jesus Christ as their savior and that he was God sent to Earth to die and be resurrected for the forgiveness of their sins, thus making them Christians.

[QUOTE="3KindgomsRandy"]

[QUOTE="scorch-62"] Your source seems to portray Catholics as Christians.scorch-62

Catholics are Christians. They believe in Jesus Christ as their savior and that he was God sent to Earth to die and be resurrected for the forgiveness of their sins, thus making them Christians.

I detemine my beliefs, not you. Please refrain from speaking for me about my beliefs. A person that places their faith in Christ alone as their Lord and Savior is a Christian, regardless of what Church they attend.It is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Well considering I'm a Christian and the only thing out of the Bible I have 100% faith in is Jesus's teachings in the NT, I'd say yes to your question. I am Christian, but I also believe in and follow a lot of teachings from Buddhism, New Age, and gnostic teachings. I've found much peace and inner truth through all these faiths, and a lot of my ideals do diverge from fundamental Christianity. However, I do believe Christ was crucified and resurrected to save us from our egoic mind (also considered Sinful nature).

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="3KindgomsRandy"]

Catholics are Christians. They believe in Jesus Christ as their savior and that he was God sent to Earth to die and be resurrected for the forgiveness of their sins, thus making them Christians.

blackregiment

I detemine my beliefs, not you. Please refrain from speaking for me about my beliefs. A person that places their faith in Christ alone as their Lord and Savior is a Christian, regardless of what Church they attend.It is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Not really, but that doesn't stop people from trying.

I'm a Christian, and God told me I can ignore a lot of the silly stuff in the Bible. For example, last night he texted me saying, "You know those 'days' in Genesis are just metaphorical, right? Anyway, what are you up to?" So I told God I was at my favorite bar. And He texted me back, wishing me a good time, and asking me to down one for Him.

Later, at a friend's house, I texted God asking if he knew that it was the 98th anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic. God replied that of course He knew that. I apologized, noting that I'd had a few, and told God that my dad got that right without looking it up too. Wrapping things up, God told me to drink plenty of water before I went to sleep, or I'd have a hangover.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="scorch-62"] I'm aware of that. I'm just shocked that BR would use a source that goes against his beliefs.scorch-62

I detemine my beliefs, not you. Please refrain from speaking for me about my beliefs. A person that places their faith in Christ alone as their Lord and Savior is a Christian, regardless of what Church they attend.It is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

As I said, you express your own beliefs and leave to me to express my beliefs.

My family and friends are supposedly Christian yet none of us really believe in the bible or go to church every Sunday, yet we celebrate Christmas. This is the same for many people in the UK. It's pretty screwed up if you ask me.

Edit: Typo.

[QUOTE="3KindgomsRandy"]

[QUOTE="scorch-62"] Your source seems to portray Catholics as Christians.scorch-62

Catholics are Christians. They believe in Jesus Christ as their savior and that he was God sent to Earth to die and be resurrected for the forgiveness of their sins, thus making them Christians.

Ah, I was unaware of the feud you two have. I will gladly step out of it :P

Im christian, I think the bible's bs

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="3KindgomsRandy"]

Catholics are Christians. They believe in Jesus Christ as their savior and that he was God sent to Earth to die and be resurrected for the forgiveness of their sins, thus making them Christians.

3KindgomsRandy

Ah, I was unaware of the feud you two have. I will gladly step out of it :P

There's no "feud" on my part. I simply do not want others stating things as if they are my beliefs. Most people would not like that either.

I, not another, will state what I believe.

The majority of Christians do just that.

GabuEx

i was gonna say exactly that.

most Christians I know interpret the Bible to suit their own ends, for better or worse

fortunately, most do it for better, though the media would have you believe otherwise (aka Jesus Camp)

Most of us haven't even read the Bible.

I am not a Christian, but I would think a "true" Christian would be able to read between the lines within the Bible and find the actual message that God (or perhaps the men that wrote the text) intended to be understood and followed. From my experiences with religion and academic religious studies, I've found that the majority of religious texts carry the most moral value when interpreted non-literally; not as an account of history, but a symbolical story that represents a message that transcends the words it is written on the page. Whether that message be a moral, a "truth" about existence, or merely a representation of an ideal, varies from story to story, but the important thing is, that it be read not for what is there, but what is built into that story that counts.

For instance, Jesus has been quoted as saying to give up all our earthly possessions and to "turn the other cheek." Literally, this would mean, become an ascetic and never act violently towards another (even if your life is threatened). I personally would interpret these ideals as, give to and support the needy with what you can afford, and act compassionately and loving towards others within reason.

I think religion is often seen too much as a literal "truth" and not nearly enough as a societal, cultural "truth." i.e. people often take the religion too seriously, and try to live their lives like the people who wrote the text, instead of taking the teachings, and adapting them to the period in which they live. For instance, most of the laws in the Old Testament are defunct by today's standards, but they still hold some value in terms of understanding what should and should not be tolerated (when contextualized to modern ideals).

I'm still in search of "the truth" and don't agree with any religion I have found yet... but sometimes, it gets to me how many people think a literal interpretation of their religious teachings and texts are the "right" way to go about doing it. But hey, that's just how I see it.

Im christian, I think the bible's bs

jherbach1222

As I said, you express your own beliefs and leave to me to express my beliefs.blackregiment

I simply do not want others stating things as if they are my beliefs.blackregiment

No!!! Those arent real Christians, dammit! :x

[spoiler] Yes you can. There is nothing dictating that scripture must be taken literally. One can find indications why it should be but so can one for why it shouldnt. But ultimately it cant be proven in order for the conclusion to be incorprorated into the definition of the... "true" Christian. [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]I simply do not want others stating things as if they are my beliefs.scorch-62

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]I simply do not want others stating things as if they are my beliefs.Teenaged

Most of us haven't even read the Bible.

KateTheGreat94

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="3KindgomsRandy"]

Catholics are Christians. They believe in Jesus Christ as their savior and that he was God sent to Earth to die and be resurrected for the forgiveness of their sins, thus making them Christians.

blackregiment

I detemine my beliefs, not you. Please refrain from speaking for me about my beliefs. A person that places their faith in Christ alone as their Lord and Savior is a Christian, regardless of what Church they attend.It is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="scorch-62"] I'm aware of that. I'm just shocked that BR would use a source that goes against his beliefs.LJS9502_basic

I detemine my beliefs, not you. Please refrain from speaking for me about my beliefs. A person that places their faith in Christ alone as their Lord and Savior is a Christian, regardless of what Church they attend.It is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

That is an incorrect statement. What I have said is that Roman Catholicism is not the same as early historical, Biblical Christianity. The Vatican even acknowledges that.

Would you like me to post a list of the traditions that differ from.

I have also said over and over and over and over that Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, trusting in Him alone as as our Lord and Savior, not in any works we do, for salvation. It is a personal relationship between the person and Jesus Christ, being born again, a new creature in Christ. That is what Scripture teaches. It matters not what Church one attends. It is not about the institution of the Church or attending Church.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

I think you are confusing what Crushmaster has said with what I have said for whatever reason. :shock:

That is an incorrect statement. What I have said is that Roman Catholicism is not the same as early historical Christianity. The Vatican even acknowledges that.

Would you like me to post a list of the traditions that differ from.

I think you are confusing what Crushmaster has said with what I have said for whatever reason.

blackregiment

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

That is an incorrect statement. What I have said is that Roman Catholicism is not the same as early historical Christianity. The Vatican even acknowledges that.

Would you like me to post a list of the traditions that differ from.

I think you are confusing what Crushmaster has said with what I have said for whatever reason.

LJS9502_basic

You continue to ignore what I said about trusting in Christ alone, not in works, and having a personal relationship with Christ. There are those that attend Protestant Churches that do not have a personal relationship with Christ and trust in him alone, just as there are those that attend Roman Catholic Churches and trust in Christ alone, not in works and have a personal relationship with Him. How many times do I have to repeat myself? It is an individual thing. It is not about what Church someone attends. It is about trusting in Christ alone. I have often said that there are many sincere Catholics that trust in Christ alone and not in works or sacraments for their salvation and in doing so have a personal relationship with Christ.

I have offered several times to debate that topic with you, based on Scripture. The offer still stands.

Noticably missing your lack of Scripture to support your position. I have explained my position, as I have several times in the past, and I am not going play word games with you.

You like to set these traps, take things out of context, ignore what a poster writes, and then go to Ask the Mods as you did regarding Crushmaster. I refuse to play that game.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

That is an incorrect statement. What I have said is that Roman Catholicism is not the same as early historical Christianity. The Vatican even acknowledges that.

Would you like me to post a list of the traditions that differ from.

I think you are confusing what Crushmaster has said with what I have said for whatever reason.

blackregiment

You continue to ignore what I said about trusting in Christ alone, not in works, and having a personal relationship with Christ. There are those that attend Protestant Churches that do not have a personal relationship with Christ and trust in him alone, just as there are those that attend Roman Catholic Churches and trust in Christ alone, not in works and have a personal relationship with Him. How many times do I have to repeat myself? It is an individual thing. It is not about what Church someone attends. It is about trusting in Christ alone.

I have offered several times to debate that topic with you, based on Scripture. The offer still stands.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]No. You said Catholics weren't Christians and then you went on about works. But someday I'll look through my posting history and bring the quotes up. It was YOU who said it initially....crush came later.;)LJS9502_basic

You continue to ignore what I said about trusting in Christ alone, not in works, and having a personal relationship with Christ. There are those that attend Protestant Churches that do not have a personal relationship with Christ and trust in him alone, just as there are those that attend Roman Catholic Churches and trust in Christ alone, not in works and have a personal relationship with Him. How many times do I have to repeat myself? It is an individual thing. It is not about what Church someone attends. It is about trusting in Christ alone.

I have offered several times to debate that topic with you, based on Scripture. The offer still stands.

Because it has nothing to do with what I said about your previous comments to me. I'd hope you wouldn't deny that you made them.

Debate with me? Or post about me on a private facebook page?

Plus debates based on scripture are usually pointless anyway. I'd take "post about LJ behind his back on Facebook" any day.

Plus debates based on scripture are usually pointless anyway. I'd take "post about LJ behind his back on Facebook" any day.

scorch-62

[QUOTE="scorch-62"]Plus debates based on scripture are usually pointless anyway. I'd take "post about LJ behind his back on Facebook" any day.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="scorch-62"]

Plus debates based on scripture are usually pointless anyway. I'd take "post about LJ behind his back on Facebook" any day.

LJS9502_basic

Let me know when you would like to debate. We have several groups where we can hold the debate.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="scorch-62"]

Plus debates based on scripture are usually pointless anyway. I'd take "post about LJ behind his back on Facebook" any day.

blackregiment

Let me know when you would like to debate. We have several groups where we can hold the debate.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Depends on the individuals involved as with any debate. Anyway, I'd rather people said things to my face and not behind my back. I have respect for those that do so.

scorch-62

Let me know when you would like to debate. We have several groups where we can hold the debate.

People will gang up on blackregiment here and this is not faiiiiir. And of course we have absolutely no reason to assume that thats what will happen (for real though) to LJS if he goes outside of GS to debate with BR; ..........lets not be silly. tsk tsk...

Yeah, why not?

The bible isn't meant to be taken literally anyway in most cases.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="scorch-62"]

Plus debates based on scripture are usually pointless anyway. I'd take "post about LJ behind his back on Facebook" any day.

blackregiment

Let me know when you would like to debate. We have several groups where we can hold the debate.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Depends on the individuals involved as with any debate. Anyway, I'd rather people said things to my face and not behind my back. I have respect for those that do so.

LJS9502_basic

Let me know when you would like to debate. We have several groups where we can hold the debate.

[QUOTE="scorch-62"]Because it's the lair of the devil himself, of course.LJS9502_basic

Yeah, why not?

The bible isn't meant to be taken literally anyway in most cases.

Shad0ki11

I hope so, because if you can't then Christians no longer exist.

EDIT: Oh look, it's St. Paul come to preach amongst the devil-worshippers.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Let me know when you would like to debate. We have several groups where we can hold the debate.

scorch-62

Nothing gets on here without Satan's influence. I've got to give BR some credit though, it takes balls to show up and converse with a group he has obviously shown great disdain for. Then again, disregarding, ignoring, and not taking any responsibility for it is not that admirable either. Doesn't surprise me.