Children as young as seven mining cobalt used in smartphones.

Amnesty International says it has traced cobalt used in batteries for household brands to mines in DRC, where children work in life-threatening conditions.

Children as young as seven are working in perilous conditions in the Democratic Republic of the Congo to mine cobalt that ends up in smartphones, cars and computers sold to millions across the world, by household brands including Apple, Microsoft and Vodafone, according to a new investigation by Amnesty International.

The human rights group claims to have traced cobalt used in lithium batteries sold to 16 multinational brands to mines where young children and adults are being paid a dollar a day, working in life-threatening conditions and subjected to violence, extortion and intimidation.

More than half the world’s supply of cobalt comes from the DRC, with 20% of cobalt exported coming from artisanal mines in the southern part of the country. In 2012, Unicef estimated that there were 40,000 children working in all the mines across the south, many involved in mining cobalt.

Source.

Apple is killing children!

Yup, we're bad people.

I used to mine cobalt.

Let's solve the problem by protesting against those multinationals so instead of making those children work in life threatening conditions they can let them happily die of starvation!

#BlackLivesMatter

Do the kids get payed? If they do then I don't see the problem. If they don't then Apple needs to make the phones cheaper if they are using child slave labor. Those damn phones still cost too much.

How about paying their parents a good wage?

And I doubt many of you here will start paying for the more expensive options. So this thread is pointless. It's the consumers that allow this to happen.

Yeah pretty much. It's the same as people who complain about buying everything made in China, but won't pay that bit extra for products made in other countries that are better quality.

It makes me incredibly sad that children are that desperate that they have to work like this.

Sorry, that's not how capitalism works.

Their country controls more than 50% of the World's cobalt supply. It should be rich...

Exactly. That is how capitalism works. Corporations in rich nations exploit the poor nations and their people to make a huge profit while paying off only a few people.

Patrice Lumumba, the country's first democratically elected president, also dared to believe that his country's resources should benefit his country's people.

So the CIA had him kidnapped and executed.

The West has a long and storied history of abusing the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Belgium set the ball rolling with horrific slavery on a massive scale. But the modern methodology entails propping up corrupt puppet regimes that represent the interests of Western corporations at the expense of the local population.

The United States has played a major role in ensuring that the DRC remains a poverty-stricken source of cheap natural resources, not only by murdering Lumumba, but also by keeping the likes of Mobuto Sese Seko in power.

Crony capitalism.

Based African children.

Thanks for the phones.

No, it is not the consumer's fault; consumers can't be expected to know every small detail, specifically how a gram or two of cobalt in their phone is made from child labor.

You know what we should expect? Corporate responsibility. Or how about DRC caring about their citizens and having child labor laws like the rest of the modern world.

As for complaints, my only complaint is how things used to be made in America, and still affordable, mind you. So don't give me this "we'd rather have child labor and cheap phones than insignificantly more expensive phones and no child labor" bullshit. Put the blame where it belongs: on DRC, and on Apple.

Tired of people placing blame irresponsibly.

*also, as for paying a bit more for better quality, I also call bullshit on that. Craft beer is on the rise, significantly so, and is far more expensive than macro beer; people are shelling out a lot more money for a lot less beer of much more quality, and are happy to do so. People still buy slightly more expensive domestic cars, and Ford has been doing very well (also the only motor company to not take a bailout). Generally the only time I buy something from China, is when some product uses Chinese components or ingredients. Just the other day I bought a cider that said "Made in California" but with Chinese apples; I didn't ask for that, and I'd gladly pay a bit more for good quality Washington or California apples in my cider.

Yes, you definitely have a point... but the point I was trying to make is, for example, if Apple came out and said that in order to source materials from more ethical sources for their iPhones, they'd have to raise the price by 20% for example to maintain their margins (and keep the shareholders happy), a lot of people would reject it and buy the cheaper alternative (most likely using non-ethical components).

That's the point I'm trying to make. Of course corporate responsibility is paramount, but that also extends to the consumer. And of course you could say that Apple shouldn't be charging extra for using ethically sourced material and just reduce their profit margin because it's the right thing to do, but then the shareholders would dump the stock like there's no tomorrow.

It's just human greed in general I guess. It's a vicious cycle. And yes, in a perfect world, every country should completely ban child labour. But again, human greed.

I'm terrible for supporting apple. =(

Capitalism at its finest.

I like cheap electronics.

Get gud.

What's funny is that the people whining about it in this thread will continue to use phones.

Those people are pathetic.

Actually for years now consumers have been aware of the business practices of the countries they support with purchases. Not sure where you've been but it's not exactly a secret. And it hasn't stopped consumers from continuing to support those practices.

And that IS most certainly the fault of consumers that don't give a damn about anyone but themselves.

I suppose that is partially true; it's why I don't buy Foxconn motherboards, as they're made by Chinese laborers in horrible conditions. They're essentially kept in dormitories, paid almost nothing, and not really allowed to leave. They even have nets on the roof to stop people from killing themselves. Foxconn also makes components for Apple products (and other companies).

But again, the problem is that these things are not direct to consumer, so it is hard to know what you are getting. If it was straight from a questionable source to consumer, then the consumer would have all the blame. But since it is often from questionable source to manufacturer, to importer, to wholesaler, to retailer, and finally to consumer, it's pretty easy to hide what is going on.

There are other factors as well: you can't give people a product, then let them find out it was made unethically, and expect them to be like "Oh wow, ok, we don't want this product any more". It'd be nice if we had the solidarity to boycott products that Apple makes because they're sinister, but we don't.

So yeah, there are plenty of things around to share the blame. But don't make it out like it's just the consumers fault; I don't think anyone was like "We want cheap cobalt" except Apple.

If you really think about it, i'm sure there is sacrifice somewhere down the line in all our purchases. AS humans we are not programmed to think outside the box, especially since we block it, or don't want to know. An outside country is almost like outside of our jurisdiction. Cause its not our concern as consumers how they get it done, but it should be. Its like human nature in the economic technology side. I know its ugly, but what that is corporate America. Unless its put on on media, and people are going to make it a huge buzz where every time we turn on the tv, or news its telling us not to support certain companies, and the truth comes out in our faces daily, we won't stop. America didn't get rich by playing stupid, they know how to hide the ugly part of their corrupt companies. Even the good companies are at fault, but we will turn a blind eye till the day comes forward where we will have to make a change based on footage, and news leaks, which have not already been paid off. Because if it ever went as far as evidence, and the court allowed it, the individual could always be paid off, and they would take the money and hide the evidence. Its not a pretty world on how it works, but it is what it is. You don't really want to know how we get bacon do we ? We just eat it, and enjoy it, lol .. Just my 2 cents on it. I'm sure the truth is out there, it might be uglier then i imagine it to be.

the thing is, it is getting harder and harder to purchase products solely made in one country to another. a phone or tablet may be assembled in china, but the components required to put it together come from all over the world, including the US. in the end if you care about where things are "made", do you care about where it was put together or where all of the parts to put it together were created? what about the people who designed those parts in the first place?

is buying an iphone assembled in the US with components made in china designed by japanese engineers better than buying an iphone assembled in china with components made in taiwan designed by US engineers?

it gets very tricky.

It does get tricky, and that's the problem.

Reminds me of that one good part in Armageddon, where the Russian guy is trying to get something to work, and he is like "Russian spaceship. American spaceship. ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!!!"

So, again, it might be idealistic, naive, or even ignorant of me to believe what I believe, but I don't think the burden of responsibility is on the consumer, not entirely. Companies make demand as much as we do; we were just fine before smartphones, and before that, just fine without cellular phones; the demand didn't exist until Apple/Nokia/etc was like "Hey, you need this!" Hell I lived the first 21 years of my life without a cell phone, and the first 16 without internet.

When I buy an electronic product, or even a chocolate bar, I don't think I should have to ask if any questionable practices were used in the creation of this product. Or do I need to change my worldview and assume everything is made via child/slave labor these days?

That would be sad.

i agree one shouldn't even have to ask. the problem seems to be that in some cases the only way companies/governments will be motivated to change their ways is by customers finding out about these practices in the first place. it's very easy for a corporation to rely on the ignorance of the customer. corporate responsibility tends to fall off the table when profits are threatened and no laws exists to keep them in check.

@comp_atkins: true

I suppose there will always be new people to exploit, and the cycle of "exploitation-->discovery of exploitation by government/activists/public/etc-->corrective measures" will continue.

Either consumers revolt or the U.S. government takes action, this doesn't do much other than create awareness of a major issue of international trade but also the issue of countries with massive resources but aren't stable enough to make a gain on said resources.

It's a shame and despicable what these corporations are doing, even if the consumers are purchasing these items.

I like cheap stuff.

Hooray for slavery.

I have talked about this for years and nobody gives a shit. Your electronics, food and clothing are produced with slave labor on a scale that dwarfs all forms of slavery from all periods of history combined. That's the way shit is and it is not going to change. At least you guys have ignorance as an excuse. I have known about this forever and still buy things. You guys keep telling yourselves it is a companies fault and that is lying ass bullshit. It's you and me. Quit throwing the responsibility on other people for your morality. Its cowardly. Accept what an evil bastard you are.

"Take responsibility" which means? Going there and bombing them?

Question to people in this tread, would you pay twice as much for a phone if it meant no child labor used in making it?

lulz

And what happens to those children then?

When I was growing up, we worked in the acid mines, these kids have it easy.

Most developed nations (e.g. USA, Canada, Western Europe, Japan, South Korea, Arabian Gulf) are heavily dependent on slave labour in developing nations (e.g. Africa, South/Southeast Asia, China, Mexico, South/Central America).

Should we legalize child labor in the U.S. then?

Send them to school.

Yes. One way of understanding the foreign policy of the US is to realize that its foremost objective is to isolate, insofar as possible, the uppermost strata of the global economy within its own borders while isolating the lower strata in other countries that are subservient to the US. That's why the installation of a puppet government in a targeted country is often accompanied by destruction / degradation of the country's economic infrastructure. Keeping wealth concentrated within the US occasionally entails creating poverty elsewhere.

To be fair, it's not only the US that does this, of course. The British Empire did it. The UK still does it. France has spent decades doing it in Africa. Belgium enslaved almost the entire DRC in the early 20th century. Germany committed terrible genocide in South West Africa in the first few years of the the 20th century etc.

That they pay with whose money?

I think I've seen System Wars posts pre-ToS change that were less moronic than this one, so I'll just assume you're trolling.

Um, from the taxes to Cobalt mining profits?

It's not just Apple, Microsoft, and Vodafone, but Sony, LG, Samsung, Dell, HP, Huawei and Lenovo are also involved... Many of the biggest electronics corporations are involved in the slavery/exploitation of children in Congo.

You think if they could afford to do that they'd send them to mine cobalt in the first place?

Can you guys even see past your own nose? Do you even know this isn't just a different country you're speaking of, it's a different f*cking continent?

This is just as retarded at the protests about Nike's use of child labor in India. You say "OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN", the children there instead are grateful they get to work instead of suffering hunger or having to go through crime to afford the bare necessities.

I would not buy that phone, I would simply go with the cheapest option (see?!). All I need is for my phone to call and text (maybe not even that), I would be willing to use some 2004 phone or something if I could.

What about you? Would you pay twice as much?