Church's position on abortion a little too extreme?

Isn't that a little too extreme?RyuHayabusaX

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on whether or not you think life begins at conception.

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]Isn't that a little too extreme?Oleg_Huzwog

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on whether or not you think life begins at conception.

Sperm and eggs are cells.

A Zygote is a group of cells.

It takes around 3-5 months for it to actually develop working organs doesn't it?

its considered murder in the Church's intrepretation of select passages from the bible.PeterPerson

Fixed.

No. Abortion=taking another human's life which = a violation of the 5th commandment. chester706

you're killing about as much genetic material as one of your hairs.

its considered murder in the bible.PeterPerson

They think that banning abortion will prevent murder. From their point of view, not really.

I asked my religion teacher that if say a 12 year old girl got raped by a saditisic rapist and got pregnant, would the church approve of her having an abortion. Well according to the church, that girl should keep the baby and having the abortion would be a mortal sin that separates you from God. Isn't that a little too extreme? The church ONLY supports abortion if it can save a mother's life. RyuHayabusaX

it's not a mortal sin but yeah she should at least just put it up for adoption...

[QUOTE="chester706"]No. Abortion=taking another human's life which = a violation of the 5th commandment. Hewkii

you're killing about as much genetic material as one of your hairs.

but can your hair grow into a human being?...

[QUOTE="Hewkii"]

[QUOTE="chester706"]No. Abortion=taking another human's life which = a violation of the 5th commandment. jimhogg

you're killing about as much genetic material as one of your hairs.

but can your hair grow into a human being?...

No, but it isn't a human.

It's just a bunch of cells.

I asked my religion teacher that if say a 12 year old girl got raped by a saditisic rapist and got pregnant, would the church approve of her having an abortion. Well according to the church, that girl should keep the baby and having the abortion would be a mortal sin that separates you from God. Isn't that a little too extreme? The church ONLY supports abortion if it can save a mother's life. RyuHayabusaX

but can your hair grow into a human being?...

jimhogg

the genetic material can, easily.

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]I asked my religion teacher that if say a 12 year old girl got raped by a saditisic rapist and got pregnant, would the church approve of her having an abortion. Well according to the church, that girl should keep the baby and having the abortion would be a mortal sin that separates you from God. Isn't that a little too extreme? The church ONLY supports abortion if it can save a mother's life. jimhogg

it's not a mortal sin but yeah she should at least just put it up for adoption...

well, its not the baby's fault. notconspiracy

But can we really call that tiny ball of goo during the first few weeks of pregnancy a "baby"?

[QUOTE="jimhogg"]

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]I asked my religion teacher that if say a 12 year old girl got raped by a saditisic rapist and got pregnant, would the church approve of her having an abortion. Well according to the church, that girl should keep the baby and having the abortion would be a mortal sin that separates you from God. Isn't that a little too extreme? The church ONLY supports abortion if it can save a mother's life. chester706

it's not a mortal sin but yeah she should at least just put it up for adoption...

[QUOTE="chester706"][QUOTE="jimhogg"]

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]I asked my religion teacher that if say a 12 year old girl got raped by a saditisic rapist and got pregnant, would the church approve of her having an abortion. Well according to the church, that girl should keep the baby and having the abortion would be a mortal sin that separates you from God. Isn't that a little too extreme? The church ONLY supports abortion if it can save a mother's life. notconspiracy

it's not a mortal sin but yeah she should at least just put it up for adoption...

[QUOTE="jimhogg"]

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]I asked my religion teacher that if say a 12 year old girl got raped by a saditisic rapist and got pregnant, would the church approve of her having an abortion. Well according to the church, that girl should keep the baby and having the abortion would be a mortal sin that separates you from God. Isn't that a little too extreme? The church ONLY supports abortion if it can save a mother's life. chester706

it's not a mortal sin but yeah she should at least just put it up for adoption...

Well then, they can piss off.

[QUOTE="chester706"][QUOTE="jimhogg"]

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]I asked my religion teacher that if say a 12 year old girl got raped by a saditisic rapist and got pregnant, would the church approve of her having an abortion. Well according to the church, that girl should keep the baby and having the abortion would be a mortal sin that separates you from God. Isn't that a little too extreme? The church ONLY supports abortion if it can save a mother's life. SSCyborg

it's not a mortal sin but yeah she should at least just put it up for adoption...

Well then, they can piss off.

I asked my religion teacher that if say a 12 year old girl got raped by a saditisic rapist and got pregnant, would the church approve of her having an abortion. Well according to the church, that girl should keep the baby and having the abortion would be a mortal sin that separates you from God. Isn't that a little too extreme? The church ONLY supports abortion if it can save a mother's life. RyuHayabusaX

Actually, didn't Jesus die so she could abort that baby? Man, religious point of view seems so skewed, how can any Christian think they're actually doing their religion correctly?

The Catholic Church is a little too extreme about everything. But yes, christian's views on abortion are just ridiculous.

I don't think abortion is right I think it's terrible. But people are free to do what they want. Would I be able to go through an abortion (if I was female, of course....:|)? Definitely not. But I think at some times it's necessary.

Actually, didn't Jesus die so she could abort that baby? Man, religious point of view seems so skewed, how can any Christian think they're actually doing their religion correctly?

GodLovesDead

I think you'd be hard-pressed finding a theologian or religious scholar who interprets the crucifixion as a "free pass" to continue sinning.

But people are free to do what they want.nintendorocks

...unless their actions result in direct harm to others, which is the reason the Pro-Life crowd does what it does.

[QUOTE="jimhogg"][QUOTE="Hewkii"]

[QUOTE="chester706"]No. Abortion=taking another human's life which = a violation of the 5th commandment. SSCyborg

you're killing about as much genetic material as one of your hairs.

but can your hair grow into a human being?...

No, but it isn't a human.

It's just a bunch of cells.

aren't we all a bunch of cells?

and anyways you're taking away a chance at life...

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]

Actually, didn't Jesus die so she could abort that baby? Man, religious point of view seems so skewed, how can any Christian think they're actually doing their religion correctly?

Oleg_Huzwog

I think you'd be hard-pressed finding a theologian or religious scholar who interprets the crucifixion as a "free pass" to continue sinning.

Yea, but don't Christians sin anyway, and just apologize therefore leaving them a clean slate?

and anyways you're taking away a chance at life...

jimhogg

same argument applies for banning human cloning.

aren't we all a bunch of cells?

and anyways you're taking away a chance at life...

jimhogg

Okay then every time a women has her period or a guy jacks off he's taking away a chance at life. Punish them too.

I bet abortion would bother us more if we used guns. Let the baby come out, then put a cap in it's a**. Yeah, I just went there. And I think that abortion is wrong...stewiegriffin78

and I bet execution would bother people more if it was broadcast on live TV. doesn't really mean anything.

[QUOTE="jimhogg"]

and anyways you're taking away a chance at life...

Hewkii

same argument applies for banning human cloning.

Can't the same argument also apply for not raping every girl you see?yoshi-lnex

probably.

[QUOTE="SSCyborg"][QUOTE="chester706"][QUOTE="jimhogg"]

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]I asked my religion teacher that if say a 12 year old girl got raped by a saditisic rapist and got pregnant, would the church approve of her having an abortion. Well according to the church, that girl should keep the baby and having the abortion would be a mortal sin that separates you from God. Isn't that a little too extreme? The church ONLY supports abortion if it can save a mother's life. chester706

it's not a mortal sin but yeah she should at least just put it up for adoption...

Well then, they can piss off.

the only mortal sin in the Bible is not accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior is the only mortal sin.

The abortion debate is the product of a misunderstanding of the nature of life. Life does not have some kind of magical quality, nor do human beings have a soul. The abortion debate would be far more transparent if instead of asking "when does life begin" we were to ask ourselves "when does a human being get a soul?"

The latter question reveals that people who oppose abortion due to because they believe that they are infringing on the rights of a being that possesses a soul which is equal to the soul of any other adult human being. Unfortunately, souls (like magical fairies that produce gravity) don't exist, and are merely abstractions for feelings of consciousness we enjoy as complex organisms.

Tossing souls aside, we can make a judgement on whether or not abortion should be outlawed. Laws are meant to protect the rights of sentient human beings, because as sentient human beings outselves it is in our best interests to keep society safe for others like us. A human fetus is not sentient. Think that is harsh? Well compare the intelligence of a human fetus to the intelligence of an adult animal that we routinely consider to be mindless and replacable.

Of course that non-sentient fetus will eventually gain sentience, but that doesn't matter because the law is meant to protect the rights of sentient beings similar to ourselves. Therefore, the rights of the mother outweigh the rights of the unborn child. There is no harm done to society through the killing of a fetus, because one only worries about being killed after they have been born. The laws that prevent murder are meant to allieviate the chaos that would be caused by a society in which murder were legal. (Everyone would be paranoid and constantly scared). Abortion does not cause societal chaos, as fetuses are not going to become fearful at the prospect that their life could be ended without consequence.

Hope this provides you with another developed viewpoint on the issue.

the only mortal sin in the Bible is not accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior is the only mortal sin.

jimhogg

Spoken like a true Evangelical. :P

Is the sky blue?

The abortion debate is the product of a misunderstanding of the nature of life. Life does not have some kind of magical quality, nor do human beings have a soul. The abortion debate would be far more transparent if instead of asking "when does life begin" we were to ask ourselves "when does a human being get a soul?"

The latter question reveals that people who oppose abortion due to because they believe that they are infringing on the rights of a being that possesses a soul which is equal to the soul of any other adult human being. Unfortunately, souls (like magical fairies that produce gravity) don't exist, and are merely abstractions for feelings of consciousness we enjoy as complex organisms.

Tossing souls aside, we can make a judgement on whether or not abortion should be outlawed. Laws are meant to protect the rights of sentient human beings, because as sentient human beings outselves it is in our best interests to keep society safe for others like us. A human fetus is not sentient. Think that is harsh? Well compare the intelligence of a human fetus to the intelligence of an adult animal that we routinely consider to be mindless and replacable.

Of course that non-sentient fetus will eventually gain sentience, but that doesn't matter because the law is meant to protect the rights of sentient beings similar to ourselves. Therefore, the rights of the mother outweigh the rights of the unborn child. There is no harm done to society through the killing of a fetus, because one only worries about being killed after they have been born. The laws that prevent murder are meant to allieviate the chaos that would be caused by a society in which murder were legal. (Everyone would be paranoid and constantly scared). Abortion does not cause societal chaos, as fetuses are not going to become fearful at the prospect that their life could be ended without consequence.

Hope this provides you with another developed viewpoint on the issue.

Kuja9998

umm how about we do have souls and you're saying that the mother has the right to kill a baby?...

Laws are meant to protect the rights of sentient human beings, because as sentient human beings outselves it is in our best interests to keep society safe for others like us. A human fetus is not sentient. Think that is harsh? Well compare the intelligence of a human fetus to the intelligence of an adult animal that we routinely consider to be mindless and replacable.

Of course that non-sentient fetus will eventually gain sentience, but that doesn't matter because the law is meant to protect the rights of sentient beings similar to ourselves. Therefore, the rights of the mother outweigh the rights of the unborn child. There is no harm done to society through the killing of a fetus, because one only worries about being killed after they have been born. The laws that prevent murder are meant to allieviate the chaos that would be caused by a society in which murder were legal. (Everyone would be paranoid and constantly scared). Abortion does not cause societal chaos, as fetuses are not going to become fearful at the prospect that their life could be ended without consequence.

Kuja9998

If sentience is the deciding factor, infanticide becomes acceptable. A newborn has no concept of self and is unable to sense impending doom.

[QUOTE="jimhogg"]

the only mortal sin in the Bible is not accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior is the only mortal sin.

Oleg_Huzwog

Spoken like a true Evangelical. :P

very true but when it comes down to it that's pretty much it...

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

- John 3:16 (KJV)

that pretty much sums it up for ya.

umm how about we do have souls and you're saying that the mother has the right to kill a baby?...

jimhogg

Souls do not exist, sorry to burst your bubble. I believe that this proves my point: Abortion is only wrong in the context of religion. (Thankfully we have separation of church and state which means that Abortion will not be judged in the context of religion).

[QUOTE="jimhogg"]

umm how about we do have souls and you're saying that the mother has the right to kill a baby?...

Kuja9998

Souls do not exist, sorry to burst your bubble. I believe that this proves my point: Abortion is only wrong in the context of religion. (Thankfully we have separation of church and state which means that Abortion will not be judged in the context of religion).

and your proof is?...

and your proof is?...

jimhogg

If you're going to debate the existance of a soul, I'm afraid the burden of proof falls upon your shoulders.

Yes, to some extent I agree with that statement killing a newborn is not as morally aprehensible as killing a fully sentient being.

However, in this case the rights of the mother do not directly conflict with the rights of the newborn. Killing the newborn would be a senseless act, as the mother has the ability to withdraw all obligations to the child without consequence. In this case even the limited rights of the lowly infant outweigh those of the mother, because the mother has accessible non-invasive options other than ending the child's life.

[QUOTE="jimhogg"]and your proof is?...

Oleg_Huzwog

If you're going to debate the existance of a soul, I'm afraid the burden of proof falls upon your shoulders.

i know, but considering the Bible is the most confirmed piece of literature to be true ever written kind of leans it in my favor...

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"][QUOTE="jimhogg"]and your proof is?...

jimhogg

If you're going to debate the existance of a soul, I'm afraid the burden of proof falls upon your shoulders.

i know, but considering the Bible is the most confirmed piece of literature to be true ever written kind of leans it in my favor...

The bible is confirmed to be 100% accurate eh? lol... your either very young or very stupid.