could this Mexican Actor cost Obama the presidency?
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[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Disgusting fact: Joe Biden accepts the Catholic view that life begins at conception, yet is pro-choice.
He is quite possibly worse than Obama.
Theokhoth
There are many Christians that are pro life, but secularist when it comes to the government in policy making.. This isn't to say he is right or wrong.. But this idea is not so uncommon..
Protecting human life shouldn't be considered a "non-secularist policy."
Seriously, his stance is morbidly disturbing. Obama isn't sure as to when life begins, so I can at least give him benefit of the doubt in that area. But Joe Biden believes life begins at conception, and yet STILL SUPPORTS ENDING THAT LIFE.
That is sick.
I suppose this reminds me of what my old Government teacher would say: "I'm in favor of abortion, but I think it's morally wrong." What he means is, that women have the right to privacy and all that stuff, and if they so choose to have an abortion, the government does not have the right to intervene in her personal life and sexcapades.
I suppose this reminds me of what my old Government teacher would say: "I'm in favor of abortion, but I think it's morally wrong." What he means is, that women have the right to privacy and all that stuff, and if they so choose to have an abortion, the government does not have the right to intervene in her personal life and sexcapades.
viewtiful26
You don't understand; Biden believes that the fetus is alive and human, as per the Catholic stance. Now, if he believes it is human, why does he not oppose the killing of what he believes to be a human? It would be like going "I don't support manslaughter, but I think people should have the right to choose to do it."
It's the government's JOB to protect the lives of its citizens. If Biden believes fetuses are citizens yet has no qualm with killing them, that is a very, very disturbing thought.
[QUOTE="viewtiful26"]
I suppose this reminds me of what my old Government teacher would say: "I'm in favor of abortion, but I think it's morally wrong." What he means is, that women have the right to privacy and all that stuff, and if they so choose to have an abortion, the government does not have the right to intervene in her personal life and sexcapades.
Theokhoth
You don't understand; Biden believes that the fetus is alive and human, as per the Catholic stance. Now, if he believes it is human, why does he not oppose the killing of what he believes to be a human? It would be like going "I don't support manslaughter, but I think people should have the right to choose to do it."
It's the government's JOB to protect the lives of its citizens. If Biden believes fetuses are citizens yet has no qualm with killing them, that is a very, very disturbing thought.
It is disturbing. Biden basically says he believes the fetus is a person but he is not going to "impose my religiously based view on a pluralistic society". Here are three main problems with Biden's logic: 1. As Archbishop Chaput says "all law involves imposing belief on others" and gives the example of seatbelt laws. 2. The view that a human is a person at conception is not a specifically religious view, indeed science holds that at conception the zygote has DNA that is different from that of the parents, thus it is a totally different human being. Biden acts as if banning abortion would be the same as banning heresy or forcing all Americans to go to Mass every Sunday and Holy Day of Obligation. 3. From Biden's perspective it seems that it is more important to not "impose beliefs on a pluralistic society" than to protect fundamental Human rights.
[QUOTE="viewtiful26"]
I suppose this reminds me of what my old Government teacher would say: "I'm in favor of abortion, but I think it's morally wrong." What he means is, that women have the right to privacy and all that stuff, and if they so choose to have an abortion, the government does not have the right to intervene in her personal life and sexcapades.
Theokhoth
You don't understand; Biden believes that the fetus is alive and human, as per the Catholic stance. Now, if he believes it is human, why does he not oppose the killing of what he believes to be a human? It would be like going "I don't support manslaughter, but I think people should have the right to choose to do it."
It's the government's JOB to protect the lives of its citizens. If Biden believes fetuses are citizens yet has no qualm with killing them, that is a very, very disturbing thought.
Disagree, there are many people who have served that were deeply religious but had a secularist approach. There are many pro choice people who have religious beliefs on this that conflict this. But they believe the constitution and the choice of the woman is supreme..
Good thing the Bishops came out and stated that he was wrong. I guess Biden believes that life starts at conception but disagrees when the Church says this:Disgusting fact: Joe Biden accepts the Catholic view that life begins at conception, yet is pro-choice.
He is quite possibly worse than Obama.
Theokhoth
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.
From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.71
And this:2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:
"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority.
These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin.
Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."79
"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law.
When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined....
As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights."
In Biden's defense at least he opposes partial birth abortion (unlike Obama) and tax funded abortions.
On another note, Obama likes to talk about Change but here's what the Church says:
" 2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion.
This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable.
Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law"
I added the bold to unchangeable. And Maybe Biden should listen to his Mother.
[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="viewtiful26"]
I suppose this reminds me of what my old Government teacher would say: "I'm in favor of abortion, but I think it's morally wrong." What he means is, that women have the right to privacy and all that stuff, and if they so choose to have an abortion, the government does not have the right to intervene in her personal life and sexcapades.
sSubZerOo
You don't understand; Biden believes that the fetus is alive and human, as per the Catholic stance. Now, if he believes it is human, why does he not oppose the killing of what he believes to be a human? It would be like going "I don't support manslaughter, but I think people should have the right to choose to do it."
It's the government's JOB to protect the lives of its citizens. If Biden believes fetuses are citizens yet has no qualm with killing them, that is a very, very disturbing thought.
Disagree, there are many people who have served that were deeply religious but had a secularist approach. There are many pro choice people who have religious beliefs on this that conflict this. But they believe the constitution and the choice of the woman is supreme..
Human rights are supreme. Human rights trump the constitution, human rights trump the will of the people. As St. Augustine says a State which is not governed according to justice would be just a bunch of thieves: "Remota itaque iustitia quid sunt regna nisi magna latrocinia?". In the end a government that doesn't protect the fundamental rights of all it's citizens has no legitimate authority to govern.[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="viewtiful26"]
I suppose this reminds me of what my old Government teacher would say: "I'm in favor of abortion, but I think it's morally wrong." What he means is, that women have the right to privacy and all that stuff, and if they so choose to have an abortion, the government does not have the right to intervene in her personal life and sexcapades.
whipassmt
You don't understand; Biden believes that the fetus is alive and human, as per the Catholic stance. Now, if he believes it is human, why does he not oppose the killing of what he believes to be a human? It would be like going "I don't support manslaughter, but I think people should have the right to choose to do it."
It's the government's JOB to protect the lives of its citizens. If Biden believes fetuses are citizens yet has no qualm with killing them, that is a very, very disturbing thought.
Disagree, there are many people who have served that were deeply religious but had a secularist approach. There are many pro choice people who have religious beliefs on this that conflict this. But they believe the constitution and the choice of the woman is supreme..
Human rights are supreme. Human rights trump the constitution, human rights trump the will of the people. As St. Augustine says a State which is not governed according to justice would be just a bunch of thieves: "Remota itaque iustitia quid sunt regna nisi magna latrocinia?". In the end a government that doesn't protect the fundamental rights of all it's citizens has no legitimate authority to govern.His beliefs on the human rights is just that beliefs.. Many people do not agree with his views.. Infact the majoirty of women do not agree in the United States.. He can clearly see its not a monopoly and that many would believe you are infringing on peoples rights, mainly women.. IT isn't black and white when you running a country of many views.. And I fear a person that bases their religious beliefs in policy making in the absolute..
[QUOTE="whipassmt"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="viewtiful26"]
I suppose this reminds me of what my old Government teacher would say: "I'm in favor of abortion, but I think it's morally wrong." What he means is, that women have the right to privacy and all that stuff, and if they so choose to have an abortion, the government does not have the right to intervene in her personal life and sexcapades.
sSubZerOo
You don't understand; Biden believes that the fetus is alive and human, as per the Catholic stance. Now, if he believes it is human, why does he not oppose the killing of what he believes to be a human? It would be like going "I don't support manslaughter, but I think people should have the right to choose to do it."
It's the government's JOB to protect the lives of its citizens. If Biden believes fetuses are citizens yet has no qualm with killing them, that is a very, very disturbing thought.
Disagree, there are many people who have served that were deeply religious but had a secularist approach. There are many pro choice people who have religious beliefs on this that conflict this. But they believe the constitution and the choice of the woman is supreme..
Human rights are supreme. Human rights trump the constitution, human rights trump the will of the people. As St. Augustine says a State which is not governed according to justice would be just a bunch of thieves: "Remota itaque iustitia quid sunt regna nisi magna latrocinia?". In the end a government that doesn't protect the fundamental rights of all it's citizens has no legitimate authority to govern.His beliefs on the human rights is just that beliefs.. Many people do not agree with his views.. Infact the majoirty of women do not agree in the United States.. He can clearly see its not a monopoly and that many would believe you are infringing on peoples rights, mainly women.. IT isn't black and white when you running a country of many views.. And I fear a person that bases their religious beliefs in policy making in the absolute..
1. Human rights supercede the will of the majority, for instance just because the majority of Americans at One time favored slavery and Jim Crow did not make it right, even if the majority of people favor abortus that does not make it right. 2. Quit trying to make it seem like all women are pro- choice. Have you ever heard of pro-life feminism?1. Human rights supercede the will of the majority, for instance just because the majority of Americans at One time favored slavery and Jim Crow did not make it right, even if the majority of people favor abortus that does not make it right. 2. Quit trying to make it seem like all women are pro- choice. Have you ever heard of pro-life feminism?whipassmt
THATS MY POINT, people do not see it as a HUMAN RIGHTS issue.. Its a grey area, regardless what he believes he mos tlikely RESPECTS that and upholds it.. And the second part is irrelevent, something like 70% of the women support first trimester abortions.. And PEOPLE AGREE on this.. No one is for murdering, they don't see fetus as human being.. Hence why its sketchy..
You some how think that eveyr one accepts a Fetus is a human life.. But many would disagree with you.. Thats why I think Biden would have such a stance on the issue.. On why he would support the Constiution of this.. Many have moral disagreements with it, but that doesn't mean its the right or correct thing to try to change it.
Its a secularist IDEA imo.. That though he doesn't believe it, taking religion aside he thinks that its a important liberty for women.
Wow, this thread has drifted a bit.
- Obama opposing bills doesn't mean he opposes the main ideas in the bill.I mean, here in Canada there was a bill that the conservatives were trying to pass that would give protection to unborn children. It was described as a bill to make sentences harder for people who kill pregnant women, but really...under the ambiguous words...it was an anti-abortion bill. Do some people want tougher sentences for murderers? Sure, but maybe not at the cost of banning abortion.
-The day abortion is banned is the day the government should either force employers to give paid maternity leave to pregnant women at the same pay rate she was earning prior to leave, or if she's under the poverty line, the government should award her income enough to cover costs sufficiently. You can't, at this point in social development, ban abortion and not provide people with an out-clause.Maybe it would be what I just described, maybe not, but it would have to be something that would help women out while going through pregnancy and in the following months. Many get abortions because they can't afford to have a child, so if they're forced to keep the child then the government(state or federal) will have to look into building infrastructure for, and funding, daycare. More schools will need to be built. Etc. Etc.
Abortion was a key WIN in the feminist movement, so to take that away and not give an equal amount back would be a slap in the face to most feminists, no matter if they're pro-choice or pro-life.
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